Updating Towed Installations

[davidr (OP)]

I have designed a Fuel Harvester and am now designing a Terraformer , both with no armour or engines so my construction factories can produce them. I have towed a couple of the Harvesters to Uranus to mine the Sorium.

My question is this - I have placed a CIWS and small sensors on the Installations . If I want to upgrade the components in the future how do I do this - or should I not have placed any upgradeable items on the Installations. 

DavidR

[DFNewb]

To refit you will need a shipyard that is large enough.

[davidr (OP)]

DFNewb,

Thanks - but if I need a  large enough Yard to upgrade the components is it still worthwhile using Construction Factories to build the Installation first rather than using a Yard to both build and refit.

DavidR

[Black]

I personally think that it is not worth it to refit comercial stations. If your comercial station needs to use sensors or CIWS you made a big mistake that CIWS or small sensor will not solve.

[Zincat]

What black said. Unless you install a ton of CIWS.... but then you spent a LOT on them, and a single small beam warship will still wreck those stations.

If you want protection, build a military base and tow it there. But a much better solution is making sure your enemies never reach the system where you have such valuable orbitals anyway...

[Ulzgoroth]

I would think that even if certain peripheral parts are obsolete, you won't be in a great hurry to drag your stations back to base and refit them anyhow. Just deploy the older ones in safer areas. (And as the others say, don't deploy any of them in areas where you expect to actually use CIWS or small sensors, because that's suicidal.)

[skoormit]

DFNewb,

Thanks - but if I need a  large enough Yard to upgrade the components is it still worthwhile using Construction Factories to build the Installation first rather than using a Yard to both build and refit.

DavidR

You will still build it much faster with factories.
There are two benefits of building these with a yard:
1) You get to use your factories to build other things during that time.
2) You make a lot of wealth from the yard workers. A 250kT commercial yard employs 6.25M pop per slip. That's a lot of worker taxes.

All that said, it's a massive investment to build such a yard, and it would take a long time for the income to pay you back.

Personally, throw a lot of extras on my enormous stations.
Usually sensors (all three types) and a fuel tank and a refueling system, at the least.
My rule of thumb is that if it adds less than 1% to the cost and weight, and it might ever be useful at some point, I throw it on there.
But I don't think I would ever bother to refit them. They are just nice-to-have little extras on the design. Not worth the hassle of trying to upgrade them later.

[Froggiest1982]

DFNewb,

Thanks - but if I need a  large enough Yard to upgrade the components is it still worthwhile using Construction Factories to build the Installation first rather than using a Yard to both build and refit.

DavidR

You will still build it much faster with factories.
There are two benefits of building these with a yard:
1) You get to use your factories to build other things during that time.
2) You make a lot of wealth from the yard workers. A 250kT commercial yard employs 6.25M pop per slip. That's a lot of worker taxes.

All that said, it's a massive investment to build such a yard, and it would take a long time for the income to pay you back.

Personally, throw a lot of extras on my enormous stations.
Usually sensors (all three types) and a fuel tank and a refueling system, at the least.
My rule of thumb is that if it adds less than 1% to the cost and weight, and it might ever be useful at some point, I throw it on there.
But I don't think I would ever bother to refit them. They are just nice-to-have little extras on the design. Not worth the hassle of trying to upgrade them later.

A bit off-topic but I think we really could use a "Retire" button for stations and also to self destruct buoys.

[SpikeTheHobbitMage]

DFNewb,

Thanks - but if I need a  large enough Yard to upgrade the components is it still worthwhile using Construction Factories to build the Installation first rather than using a Yard to both build and refit.

DavidR

There are a lot of minerals in a station.   Better to scrap it when it is obsolete.  Best to build them to last.
You will still build it much faster with factories.
There are two benefits of building these with a yard:
1) You get to use your factories to build other things during that time.
2) You make a lot of wealth from the yard workers. A 250kT commercial yard employs 6.25M pop per slip. That's a lot of worker taxes.

All that said, it's a massive investment to build such a yard, and it would take a long time for the income to pay you back.

Personally, throw a lot of extras on my enormous stations.
Usually sensors (all three types) and a fuel tank and a refueling system, at the least.
My rule of thumb is that if it adds less than 1% to the cost and weight, and it might ever be useful at some point, I throw it on there.
But I don't think I would ever bother to refit them. They are just nice-to-have little extras on the design. Not worth the hassle of trying to upgrade them later.

A bit off-topic but I think we really could use a "Retire" button for stations and also to self destruct buoys.

Edit:Somehow my comment got cut off.  As the biggest advantage of stations is that they don't need shipyards, I'd like to be able to refit/scrap them using industry.  Refitting fighters with fighter factories as well.

[liveware]

I think it might be possible to order an 'abandon station' order and then salvage the station wreck. I haven't yet tested this but I plan on doing this with my fuel harvester station now that I have depleted all sorium in my home system.

[Ulzgoroth]

I think it might be possible to order an 'abandon station' order and then salvage the station wreck. I haven't yet tested this but I plan on doing this with my fuel harvester station now that I have depleted all sorium in my home system.

If you've got a big enough civilian ship yard you could probably just drag it over and order it scrapped that way. I don't know how big you build your stations, mine mostly aren't really that big compared to even minimalist cargo ships.

...Well, so far. Once I start building orbital habitats I guess that'll be another story.

[SpikeTheHobbitMage]

I think it might be possible to order an 'abandon station' order and then salvage the station wreck. I haven't yet tested this but I plan on doing this with my fuel harvester station now that I have depleted all sorium in my home system.

If you've got a big enough civilian ship yard you could probably just drag it over and order it scrapped that way. I don't know how big you build your stations, mine mostly aren't really that big compared to even minimalist cargo ships.

...Well, so far. Once I start building orbital habitats I guess that'll be another story.

My orbitals feel cramped at 600k-700k tons, but I like to keep them under 1.5 million.  A shipyard that big is expensive.

[liveware]

I think it might be possible to order an 'abandon station' order and then salvage the station wreck. I haven't yet tested this but I plan on doing this with my fuel harvester station now that I have depleted all sorium in my home system.

If you've got a big enough civilian ship yard you could probably just drag it over and order it scrapped that way. I don't know how big you build your stations, mine mostly aren't really that big compared to even minimalist cargo ships.

...Well, so far. Once I start building orbital habitats I guess that'll be another story.

I only ever build stations if I can't build a large enough ship to accomplish my goals. In this case my station is about 500k tons and my largest shipyard is about 200k tons, so shipyard scrapping is not an option.

Fortunately it is a commercial station so it's maintenance costs are trivial.

[Froggiest1982]

I think it might be possible to order an 'abandon station' order and then salvage the station wreck. I haven't yet tested this but I plan on doing this with my fuel harvester station now that I have depleted all sorium in my home system.

If you've got a big enough civilian ship yard you could probably just drag it over and order it scrapped that way. I don't know how big you build your stations, mine mostly aren't really that big compared to even minimalist cargo ships.

...Well, so far. Once I start building orbital habitats I guess that'll be another story.

My orbitals feel cramped at 600k-700k tons, but I like to keep them under 1.5 million.  A shipyard that big is expensive.

Do you put many habitats in it to make them that big?

[SpikeTheHobbitMage]

I think it might be possible to order an 'abandon station' order and then salvage the station wreck. I haven't yet tested this but I plan on doing this with my fuel harvester station now that I have depleted all sorium in my home system.

If you've got a big enough civilian ship yard you could probably just drag it over and order it scrapped that way. I don't know how big you build your stations, mine mostly aren't really that big compared to even minimalist cargo ships.

...Well, so far. Once I start building orbital habitats I guess that'll be another story.

My orbitals feel cramped at 600k-700k tons, but I like to keep them under 1.5 million.  A shipyard that big is expensive.

Do you put many habitats in it to make them that big?

I haven't built a habitat since VB.

These are what I like to build, but I have to cut them down to half size to afford one of each at game start.  I'd go larger but the tug requirements start adding up.

Code: [Select]

Genesis class Terraformer    1,259,923 tons    5,010 Crew    26,527 BP    TCS 25,198    TH 0    EM 0
1 km/s    No Armour    Shields 0-0    HTK 646    Sensors 0/0/0/0    DCR 1    PPV 0
MSP 13    Max Repair 500 MSP
Drengr    Control Rating 1   BRG
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months
Terraformer: 50 modules producing 0.0125 atm per annum

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Space Station for construction purposes

It takes one of my tankers two trips to unload this thing once per year.

Code: [Select]

Cloud City class Gas Miner    1,385,093 tons    5,010 Crew    19,055.3 BP    TCS 27,702    TH 0    EM 0
1 km/s    No Armour    Shields 0-0    HTK 2656    Sensors 0/0/0/0    DCR 1    PPV 0
MSP 8    Max Repair 2400 MSP
Drengr    Control Rating 1   BRG
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months
Fuel Harvester: 500 modules producing 20,000,000 litres per annum
Refuelling Hub - Capable of refuelling multiple ships simultaneously

Fuel Capacity 25,000,000 Litres    Range N/A

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Space Station for construction purposes

The cargo bay is a convenience feature to move a mass driver, but that could be done by civilians instead.  I'm still debating the merits, since a high yield body might need two of them.  The 100 module unit mini is handy to haul out to distant asteroids or comets.

Code: [Select]

Valhalla Tower class Orbital Miner    1,296,313 tons    12,525 Crew    33,766 BP    TCS 25,926    TH 0    EM 0
1 km/s    No Armour    Shields 0-0    HTK 1615    Sensors 0/0/0/0    DCR 1    PPV 0
MSP 16    Max Repair 120 MSP
Cargo 25,000    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 1
Drengr    Control Rating 1   BRG
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months
Orbital Miner: 250 modules producing 2,500 tons per mineral per annum

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Space Station for construction purposes