Author Topic: Rollback advice  (Read 1686 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline samargh (OP)

  • Petty Officer
  • **
  • s
  • Posts: 17
Rollback advice
« on: January 31, 2014, 02:19:44 AM »
OK, so I dug myself into a hole and need to get out with a rollback.

I can either start from scratch or roll back the game a few days.

question 1, if I had precursors and swarms ticked in a game, roll back to a point before I enter any systems where I strongly suspect they may be, un-tick the boxes then carry on forward, are the greeblies still going to be there or will they never have existed?


next is to do with my tech choices.

It has been pointed out that I'm a bit deficient in some areas, mainly sensors and engines.  I can certainly accept this, and it has been driven purely by my available scientists.  I only recently got a propulsion tech (who's been flogged like a dead race horse since his arrival) and I still don't have a sensor tech, hence those branches are known to be lacking.  The other ones are hopefully far better advanced as I've been making use of the specialist bonuses.

Question 2, am I too far behind in crucial areas after 14 years game time to be able to catch up? (therefore start again. . )

to help out, here are the warships currently on the slipways

Lancer class Cruiser    12,000 tons     927 Crew     2096. 4 BP      TCS 240  TH 150  EM 0
833 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 4-46     Shields 0-0     Sensors 10/10/0/0     Damage Control Rating 8     PPV 22. 28
Maint Life 1. 65 Years     MSP 874    AFR 144%    IFR 2%    1YR 381    5YR 5715    Max Repair 900 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 3000 tons     

J12000(3-50) Enhanced Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 12000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
Nuclear Pulse Engine E7 (5)    Power 40    Fuel Use 70%    Signature 30    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres    Range 53. 6 billion km   (744 days at full power)

Twin 10cm C3 Ultraviolet Laser Turret (2x2)    Range 120,000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 4    ROF 5        3 3 3 3 2 2 1 1 1 1
15cm C4 Ultraviolet Laser (2)    Range 192,000km     TS: 3000 km/s     Power 6-4     RM 4    ROF 10        6 6 6 6 4 4 3 3 2 2
CIWS-120 (1x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 12000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Fire Control S04 24-12000 (1)    Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S04 96-3000 (1)    Max Range: 192,000 km   TS: 3000 km/s     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
Pebble Bed Reactor Technology PB-1 (6)     Total Power Output 18    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR10-R100 (1)     GPS 2000     Range 10. 0m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (1)     GPS 10     Range 500k km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH2-10 (1)     Sensitivity 10     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-10 (1)     Sensitivity 10     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10m km

Strike Group
7x Valkyrie Fighter   Speed: 3037 km/s    Size: 7. 9

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


with a flight wing of


Valkyrie class Fighter    395 tons     13 Crew     66. 1 BP      TCS 7. 9  TH 18  EM 0
3037 km/s     Armour 2-4     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 79%    IFR 1. 1%    1YR 7    5YR 101    Max Repair 20 MSP

FTR Nuclear Pulse Engine E700 Cooled (1)    Power 24    Fuel Use 7000%    Signature 18    Armour 0    Exp 25%
Fuel Capacity 30,000 Litres    Range 2. 0 billion km   (7 days at full power)

10cm C3 Ultraviolet Laser (1)    Range 48,000km     TS: 3037 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 4    ROF 5        3 3 3 3 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S01 24-3000 (FTR) (1)    Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
Pebble Bed Reactor Technology PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 3    Armour 0    Exp 5%

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes



and obviously I now know I need a fleet scout plus missile cruisers to go with this and the laser vessels that would be used for point defence (once I get better sensors, remember to fit shields and CIWS etc)


Question 3, if there is an actual NPR on the loose (not one of the specials), will SM mode show it under comparison like it did under Starfire assistant?

thats all I can think of at the moment, thanks in advance.

Dave

 

Offline Paul M

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • P
  • Posts: 1438
  • Thanked: 63 times
Re: Rollback advice
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2014, 03:09:40 AM »
Q2: You can always "catch up" assuming that the enemy fleet isn't in orbit around your homeworld.
 

Offline MarcAFK

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 2005
  • Thanked: 134 times
  • ...it's so simple an idiot could have devised it..
Re: Rollback advice
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2014, 07:37:40 AM »
Firstly I hope you're not putting jump drives on all your warships, at early tech levels they take far too much valuable tonnage, better to stick to groups of 3 ships, I usually put a pair of offensive ships with a single jump capable ship of the same tonnage but with large sensors and some point defence weapons.
Secondly, early engine tech is horribly slow, to make effective warships you basically need to use fuel guzzling high multiplier engines, and devote a high tonnage to engines, I would go with 20-25% engine at nuclear pulse. Your end up with a fleet that can only venture out of sol once every 5 years due to fuel shortages, but at least it will be effective in combat when you do field it.
I'll answer your questions to the best of my ability;
1) I'm pretty sure the precursors and swarm generate when systems are created, so your rollback should avoid them if you don't to any exploring, note however that NPRs will be exploring and possibly generating spoilers for you to play with.
2) you definitely aren't too far behind, I like the laser tech you have there, it's quite sufficient if you had more speed to outrun your enemy, but the problem is at early engine tech that's unlikely.
But fret not, as I said earlier, higher engine tonnage and more multiplier will help you catch up, and for better sensors at low tech just make them bigger. Your best bet at having sufficient offensive capability at early tech levels or any tech levels really is missiles, even if you're woefully lower tech level than your enemy you can still crush him by sheer weight of ordnance even if they're only 20% faster than his ships and suffer a 3% hit chance, you just need to be able to fire 5000 missiles :p
3) sm mode will not reveal much about the NPRs, it might occasionally give you a hint why a short interrupt happened but no actual spoilers.

Returning to your ships , 833 km/s is too slow for a warship at nuclear pulse , I think you can get 2000km/s easily, try taking that design above and copying it, design a size 25 engine with your highest available multiplier( use sm mode and create one instantly, add prototype to the name so you don't cheat and use it without researching it) then put 2 of those on each ship, on ship 1 remove the jump drive, and the hangers then add as many extra 15 cm lasers as you can, on ship 2 remove the 15 cm lasers and fire control and maybethen put much larger sensors, try a size 2 resolution 1 and a size 12 resolution 10.

You should find you end up with a pretty effective squadron of more specialised ships, though I might be wrong about if there's room for more sensors on ship 2 after adding the  new engines, maybe reduce hanger space or make a dedicated carrier . Though I do like the idea of cruisers carrying a small wing of recon fighters..
" Why is this godforsaken hellhole worth dying for? "
". . .  We know nothing about them, their language, their history or what they look like.  But we can assume this.  They stand for everything we don't stand for.  Also they told me you guys look like dorks. "
"Stop exploding, you cowards.  "
 

Offline Paul M

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • P
  • Posts: 1438
  • Thanked: 63 times
Re: Rollback advice
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2014, 08:24:36 AM »

to help out, here are the warships currently on the slipways

Lancer class Cruiser    12,000 tons     927 Crew     2096. 4 BP      TCS 240  TH 150  EM 0
833 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 4-46     Shields 0-0     Sensors 10/10/0/0     Damage Control Rating 8     PPV 22. 28
Maint Life 1. 65 Years     MSP 874    AFR 144%    IFR 2%    1YR 381    5YR 5715    Max Repair 900 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 3000 tons     

J12000(3-50) Enhanced Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 12000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
Nuclear Pulse Engine E7 (5)    Power 40    Fuel Use 70%    Signature 30    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres    Range 53. 6 billion km   (744 days at full power)

Twin 10cm C3 Ultraviolet Laser Turret (2x2)    Range 120,000km     TS: 10000 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 4    ROF 5        3 3 3 3 2 2 1 1 1 1
15cm C4 Ultraviolet Laser (2)    Range 192,000km     TS: 3000 km/s     Power 6-4     RM 4    ROF 10        6 6 6 6 4 4 3 3 2 2
CIWS-120 (1x4)    Range 1000 km     TS: 12000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Fire Control S04 24-12000 (1)    Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S04 96-3000 (1)    Max Range: 192,000 km   TS: 3000 km/s     95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
Pebble Bed Reactor Technology PB-1 (6)     Total Power Output 18    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR10-R100 (1)     GPS 2000     Range 10. 0m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (1)     GPS 10     Range 500k km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH2-10 (1)     Sensitivity 10     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-10 (1)     Sensitivity 10     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  10m km

Strike Group
7x Valkyrie Fighter   Speed: 3037 km/s    Size: 7. 9

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

1.  As stated above your jump drive is on all ships.  This is a space intensive thing to do at this tech level.  It has strategic advantages but tactical drawbacks.
2.  What is the idea of the turrets and barbettes?  Usually I consider turrets for point defence and barbettes for antishipping.  In this case you could make cheaper turrets with 2x10 cm IR lasers and use dedicated anti-missile fire controls.  Or rely on your CIWS (but that can't be used to defend other ships).
3.  Your fighters are only usable inside a range of 10 m km from their carrier.  Outside that range the fighters lack any means to detect a target.  They are incapable of independent operation.
4.  Your ship is slow and armed with beam weapons.  That is a bad combination except for a few specific missions.
5.  It is worth pointing out that your fighters will be detected and engaged by the enemies anti-missile defences starting at a range of approximately 2 million km from the target, your ships would detect them at 500K km and be able to engage them at 192K km.  Also should they encounter enemy fighters they will be unable to engage them unless they are within 500K km of your ships.  On the plus side they can fire their laser every 5 seconds so assuming they get to range they probably will do some damage.  Can your fighters actually engage your own ships sucessfully?  Assuming a chase situation they close 10K km every 5s and it will take them 40 s to get to range considering your turrets and 75 s against your barbettes.  I would imagine few of the 7 fighters will arrive intact.  Are they worth carrying?
 

Offline Erik L

  • Administrator
  • Admiral of the Fleet
  • *****
  • Posts: 5657
  • Thanked: 372 times
  • Forum Admin
  • Discord Username: icehawke
  • 2020 Supporter 2020 Supporter : Donate for 2020
    2022 Supporter 2022 Supporter : Donate for 2022
    Gold Supporter Gold Supporter : Support the forums with a Gold subscription
    2021 Supporter 2021 Supporter : Donate for 2021
Re: Rollback advice
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2014, 09:35:23 AM »
A quick aside about your researching. Even if you have no sensor specialist, you can still research things in that area. They will just take longer to get done. If you have the free labs and someone with a good percentage elsewhere, put them to work.

Offline samargh (OP)

  • Petty Officer
  • **
  • s
  • Posts: 17
Re: Rollback advice
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2014, 06:20:27 PM »
LOL, the newbie mistakes seem to be stacking up

yes, I had envisaged all combat vessels having jump drives on the assumption that with ships being far harder to build than in starfire, the system was more geared towards individual ship operations in the vein of SFB.  My bad.  Saying that, the battle fleet at present is still only 7 ships, 4 jump capable and another 2 jump capable beam ships and 2 of the above hybrids on the slipways.  Its not irreversible, especially now I know I'm missing some vital fleet elements and I've worked out how to do fleet transits.

Point taken, I need better sensors.  I can at least get some of that underway with some of my redundant gene techs until I get a specialist.  A lot of my poor assumptions so far seem to hang round the fact that I had no idea how myopic my sensors were.

Like others, I was having problems with operational range and fuel.  Solution, ditch fuel tanks, fit more engines, use tankers.  That should sort some of my speed issues.

Having had a chance to re-read some of the tech stuff, there are things available that I didn't realise I had.  Shields (although I believe these aren't really worth it until you are reasonably far down the research tracks) and things like Gauss and rail-guns.  The CIWS on the above design was one of those things I "found" and will start using to give better missile defence depth.

So, roll back, concentrate on research and system exploitation before heading back out for more exploration with a fleet that can actually see and have a chance at fighting.  Especially build up my neutronium reserves that are looking extremely sick and mess about with a sorium miner to get some fuel stockpiles in the already explored systems.

sounds good for a few years
 

Offline Paul M

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • P
  • Posts: 1438
  • Thanked: 63 times
Re: Rollback advice
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2014, 04:16:44 AM »
On jump drives.  Having all your ships have them gives you a lot of strategic flexibility but it does come at a price.  It isn't a black and white situation where it is automatically a bad thing to do.  It will produce a different fleet then if not done.  Also if you are going to go this route it might be worth looking into a solojump engine for the ships rather than the one more or less intended for jump tender operations.

On your fuel tanks.  Note that your fighters would require 30Kx7=210K fuel to refuel fully.  Your ships have 250,000 litres of fuel on board.

To improve your fighters:  reduce the fuel to 10K litres, drop the armour to 1 layer, add in your missile sensor (size 1) and then add an extra engine.  That should produce a faster fighter that can function independently, and serve as a missile interdiciton picket.  It also means that your fighter group is not subject to mission kill when you loose your sensor bird.
 

Offline samargh (OP)

  • Petty Officer
  • **
  • s
  • Posts: 17
Re: Rollback advice
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2014, 06:08:01 AM »
Quote from: Paul M link=topic=6761. msg69325#msg69325 date=1391249804

To improve your fighters:  reduce the fuel to 10K litres, drop the armour to 1 layer, add in your missile sensor (size 1) and then add an extra engine.   That should produce a faster fighter that can function independently, and serve as a missile interdiciton picket.   It also means that your fighter group is not subject to mission kill when you loose your sensor bird.

??? I thought fighters could only have a single engine per vessel?
I know that's a design parameter I've kept in mind, but I can't recall where I saw it. . .
 

Offline sublight

  • Pulsar 4x Dev
  • Captain
  • *
  • s
  • Posts: 592
  • Thanked: 17 times
Re: Rollback advice
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2014, 06:41:36 AM »
The single fighter engine restriction was true in version 5.x and previous, but starting 6.0 the engine mechanics for everything were completely redesigned.