Aurora 4x
VB6 Aurora => VB6 Mechanics => Topic started by: Crustypeanut on December 02, 2012, 05:43:39 AM
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Hey guys, long time no see. Been a while since I've been on Aurora or its forums, and I came back to it delighted about the new patch. Anyways, been playing around with the new missile designs, and I'm having a few issues.
First off, I'm attempting to play a game that relies heavily on missiles, and my first goal is to design mines to defend Sol's jump points. The Mine, named 'Fletcher', was built with thermal sensors with a range of 750,000 km vs a signature strength of 1,000. The odd thing with this was, when my minelayer launched the mine, using a waypoint set on Mercury (Was testing it there, so I could protect a mining base), the mine would automatically release its payload which would follow the Minelayer. The payload consisted of missiles with no sensors, but the minelayer was well within thermal range of the mine. In addition, even after releasing its payload, the mine remained indefinitely.
My question is - what did I do wrong, how can I fix it, and how do you properly make mines, while not having the mine last indefinitely after expending its submunitions.
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both mine and payload needs sensors btw.
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Which version are you on? If it's 6.1 that's a known bug that's fixed in 6.2
Though yes, the submunitions will need sensors as well and the spent bus not sticking around is intended behavior
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I'm using 6.2.1 right now, the latest version.
both mine and payload needs sensors btw.
Can I get by with using only Thermal and/or EM sensors on both, or does at least one need an Active sensor? Do both?
Which version are you on? If it's 6.1 that's a known bug that's fixed in 6.2
Though yes, the submunitions will need sensors as well and the spent bus not sticking around is intended behavior
What do you mean by 'Spent bus'? Do you mean the mine itself, not including the submunitions? Because if so, that DID stick around. I didn't want it to. I have what basically equates to spent prototype mines that are acting solely as thermal buoys around Mercury and they're not going away, nor can I find out how to get rid of 'em.
Edit: On that subject, how would one remove missiles with an infinite duration (buoys) nowadays? Can I get them to self-detonate..?
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Just a thermal sensor will do if it can pick up your enemy's drive signatures.
And by spent bus I do mean the original mine after it launches its submunitions.
To get rid of mines and such use the 'missiles in flight' tab of the combat overview.
If you're on the latest version then try redesigning the mine to fix the instant deployment.
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Just a thermal sensor will do if it can pick up your enemy's drive signatures.
Alright, will do.
And by spent bus I do mean the original mine after it launches its submunitions.
Hmm.. mine don't go away though, like they should.
To get rid of mines and such use the 'missiles in flight' tab of the combat overview.
Why did I not notice this tab.. awesome!
If you're on the latest version then try redesigning the mine to fix the instant deployment.
Redesign how, exactly? I started this game after the update, so it shouldn't be a leftover issue from this game being from before the patch, as it isn't.
Thanks for your help so far btw!
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My point is that they aren't supposed to go away. I may be wrong.
And by redesign I mean recreate the blueprint design and reresearch it, though I would use SM mode to instant it in this case
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Well it will be kind of annoying to see spent mines laying around, but at least I know how to get rid of them now.. I'll see about designing a new system. Not going to instant it though, as I'll take the previous design as a failed prototype that was put into manufacture by mistake.. luckily I only made 100 of 'em.
I'll post anything else I come across here.. thanks again for your help!
Ok, here are the updated designs:
'Bodkin' Anti-Ship Submunitions Mk2
Missile Size: 2 MSP (0.1 HS) Warhead: 2 Armour: 0 Manoeuvre Rating: 14
Speed: 6400 km/s Engine Endurance: 7 minutes Range: 2.7m km
Thermal Sensor Strength: 0.09 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 90,000 km
Cost Per Missile: 0.9768
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 89.6% 3k km/s 28% 5k km/s 17.9% 10k km/s 9%
Materials Required: 0.5x Tritanium 0.054x Boronide 0.09x Uridium 0.3328x Gallicite Fuel x25
'Fletcher' Anti-Ship Thermal Mine Mk2
Missile Size: 24 MSP (1.2 HS) Warhead: 0 Armour: 3.58 Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 0 km/s Engine Endurance: 0 minutes Range: 0.0m km
Thermal Sensor Strength: 0.09 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 90,000 km
Cost Per Missile: 10.807
Second Stage: 'Bodkin' Anti-Ship Submunitions Mk2 x10
Second Stage Separation Range: 90,000 km
Overall Endurance: 7 minutes Overall Range: 2.6m km
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 0% 3k km/s 0% 5k km/s 0% 10k km/s 0%
Materials Required: 5.895x Tritanium 0.594x Boronide 0.99x Uridium 3.328x Gallicite Fuel x250
Tech's a bit low, but I'm playing a conventional start, and have yet to leave my solar system. Both the mine and the missiles have a 90,000 km detection range vs a 1000 strength signature, with the separation range being exactly that as well. I'm planning on deploying them around the jump points to Sol once I get around to finding them. They may not be very fast, but hopefully they'll catch any ships jumping in unawares.
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I think I found out the answer to the whole 'Premature Launch' bit with the previous mines. I was targeting a waypoint set on the planet and launching them via the combat overview window. What that seemed to do was launch the mine, which was immediately within its 'launch range' for its submunitions, and it would automatically launch the missiles at the waypoint. This is why I believed my ship was triggering the mines, which was incorrect.
Now, I'm instead using the order on the fleet window 'Launch at X', which makes my Minelayer go to the jump point (or way point) and launch the mines, which stay there chilling out. Hopefully I won't need to use them against enemies (As that would mean they're invading Sol), but hopefully if needed they will work properly.
Now I just need to rework the minelayer so it can launch all of its cargo of mines at once instead of one every few hours. Time to research Box Launchers!
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Sorry to hijack your thread here, but it's related to the drones.
I have developed geosurvey drone and now I'm wondering how I can target planets and launch them at them from a PDC with no active sensor.
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I don't tested that but:
- Select planet on system map
- Open Waypoints tab
- Click Last button
That will create waypoint that move with planet. And you target it.
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Oh, thanks. Now another problem;
When launching a missile stage that releases a geosurvey buoy on a planet, how do I make the buoy last longer than 1 day?
Akegian II Geosurvey Satellite
Missile Size: 14 MSP (0.7 HS) Warhead: 0 Armour: 0 Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 0 km/s Engine Endurance: 0 minutes Range: 0.0m km
Geo Sensor Strength: 0.1372 Maximum points: 0
Cost Per Missile: 3.5137
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 0% 3k km/s 0% 5k km/s 0% 10k km/s 0%
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In 6.x all you have to do is not put a warhead on it.
Missiles with geo sensors will stick around until their survey is done, however long that takes.
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In 6.x all you have to do is not put a warhead on it.
Missiles with geo sensors will stick around until their survey is done, however long that takes.
Oh, thanks. I was just confused after geosurveying several system bodies without finding minerals I started to doubt if they actually surveyed the system bodies at all.
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The System Information window (F9) has a nifty little column of whether a planet is unknown (blank), surveyed with no minerals (S), or has minerals (M) over on the left
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Sorry to hijack your thread here, but it's related to the drones.
Not a problem, I was done with it for now anyways :P
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The System Information window (F9) has a nifty little column of whether a planet is unknown (blank), surveyed with no minerals (S), or has minerals (M) over on the left
Also on the system map, if you click the Show Surveyed Bodies checkbox on the Minerals tab, every surveyed body will be circled.
Steve
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I have searched and searched but I can't seem to find this anywhere. (Probally not wording the terms correctly).
What is the formula missile speed per EP?
i.e. For regular engines it looks like:
(EP/Size)*1000 = Speed
But this seems too low for missiles. I may have missed it in steve's thread but cannot see it after looking it over a few times.
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Same formula, but note 'size' = HS.
Since 1 HS = 20 MSP, the missile speed equation should be (EP/Size_In_MSP) * 20,000 km/s.
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Or...
(EP/(Size*.05))*1000=kps
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Ok thanks. Was thinking size on missiles was same as size on ships (i.e. tons/50) Makes sense that a size 6 missile isn't larger than a small fighter.
(http://i.imgur.com/O7dVAvv.jpg?1)
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<Insert stupid Yo Dawg comment here>
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EDIT: Issue resolved, the waypoint method works. See post below this one.
I am having problems with geosurvey drones or buoys or whatever you want to call them. I want to shoot a geology survey drone at Venus and have it automatically survey the body. It's getting frustrating.
I have a ship with a size 23 missile launcher and a size 23 missile-buoy. The ship has a missile fire control and an active sensor both with a range in the extreme millions of km, although I don't think it needs any of those components. The missile-buoy only has an engine, a lot of fuel, and about 15 MSP of geosurvey sensors. I have tried designs with 1 MSP each of EM, Thermal, and Active sensors as well, but they suffer from the same problems listed below.
(I do not know if those sensors are necessary for geo survey purposes. )
I have also made a missile that shoots a similar missile-buoy as a second stage, with the separation range set to 0k km.
I have gone into the Individual Unit menu and loaded my missile launchers with the stuff I want to shoot. I have tried this both with and without selecting my target with my missile fire control -- it makes no difference whether I do or don't. My problems are the following:
- When I give my ships the order Venus -> Launch Missiles At, the ships move to Venus and then shoot the missile or buoy at the planet. The geo survey buoy does not enter Venus orbit for some reason and gets left behind in space as the planet move in its orbit. The two-stage missile immediately self-destructs as it "lacks a target" and has no sensors.
- When I use the Waypoint method mentioned on page 1 of this thread, the same thing happens. The ships move to the Waypoint and drop the missiles there, with the above effects.
- When I load my missiles in my launcher, and hit the MSL Launch button (on the F12 Task Group menu, for instance), I get a (error) message saying "SHIP: SIZE 23 MISSILE LAUNCHER cannot be fired as the ship is currently suffering the effects of transit. " But it is not doing anything with jump points. It is just hanging out in Sol. I'm sure the message relates somehow to fire controls not working, but as I said above, it makes no difference whether I push the MSL Launch button with a target loaded onto the fire controls, or without one. The same message appears.
Bizarrely, the regular buoys worked once, after the ships went into orbit around a body and fired them. The buoys stayed in orbit and surveyed the body. But when I repeated the same steps on a different body, it did not work. The buoys were left in space, as per the first bullet point. I should add that I am most definitely not trying to survey an already surveyed body.
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the waypoint method is the correct one.
to clarify:
Select the body in question. Go to the waypoints tab, click Last. This will create a waypoint that follows the body. Go to the combat overview and fire the missile at the waypoint.
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Yes, the waypoint method works. Eventually I realized what was going on. After doing the waypoint method, the drone WAS surveying the planet. I just wasn't giving it enough time to finish. My original drone's engine was also too slow to keep up with a comet I was practicing on. :) Thanks for the help!
EDIT:
Does anyone know why I get this error, and how I can fix or get around it?
When I load my missiles in my launcher, and hit the MSL Launch button (on the F12 Task Group menu, for instance), I get a (error) message saying "SHIP: SIZE 23 MISSILE LAUNCHER cannot be fired as the ship is currently suffering the effects of transit. " But it is not doing anything with jump points. It is just hanging out in Sol. I'm sure the message relates somehow to fire controls not working, but as I said above, it makes no difference whether I push the MSL Launch button with a target loaded onto the fire controls, or without one. The same message appears.
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The MSL Launch button has been broken for as long as I can remember. And yes, the Launch Missiles At order does mean 'move there, then launch missiles once you're at it.
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How exactly are geosurvey probes or buoys supposed to work in 6. 20+?
I've tried launching size 24 probes/probe carriers with a PDC to a certain distance from Luna, or onto it, and nothing seems to be generating geosurvey points.
I noticed the reactor entry box is blanked out, and I can only seem to increase the maximum geosurvey points if I add an engine and fuel, but even then once the buoy or probe reaches the waypoint it just sits there and does nothing. What is it that I'm doing wrong?
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How exactly are geosurvey probes or buoys supposed to work in 6. 20+?
I've tried launching size 24 probes/probe carriers with a PDC to a certain distance from Luna, or onto it, and nothing seems to be generating geosurvey points.
I noticed the reactor entry box is blanked out, and I can only seem to increase the maximum geosurvey points if I add an engine and fuel, but even then once the buoy or probe reaches the waypoint it just sits there and does nothing. What is it that I'm doing wrong?
First, make sure the body you're surveying isn't already surveyed.
Second, to conduct a geosurvey, a ship or drone has to be directly on the body. The reason drones have engines is so they can move to keep up with the body. There is no visual effect I know of that shows a geosurvey is being done by a drone.
Third, if you make a missile with a geosurvey drone as a second stage, make sure the Second Stage separation is set to 0. This will make it so the drone pops out when the missile is directly on the body.
In the system map, click on the body, go to the Waypoints tab on the left side of the screen, and click Last. This will make a waypoint that follows the body around as it moves. While you're still on the system map, go to Display or Display 2 and turn on the option to show how many geosurvey points it will take to survey the bodies in the system. This can help you figure out how many drones you'll need to survey the body.
Next, go to your individual ship or PDC menu. Load the missile into the launcher, assign the launcher to a fire control and also assign the waypoint you made earlier to the same fire control. Then press the Open Fire button. If nothing happens in the next 5 seconds, go back to the ship/PDC menu and assign the fire control stuff again, and click Open Fire again. The drone should go to the waypoint and keep up with the body, and it'll be surveying it.
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*Snip*
Oh jeez. I think I figured out what I was doing wrong.
I didn't know about the lack of survey point notification on the drones, which is one thing - or that using the show survey points option in the Display 2 menu only shows the max, not how many are left. . .
But the biggest problem I was having was forgetting to put the PDC silos on cease fire after the launches. I was unknowingly getting stuck in 5 second turn increments that I wasn't noticing and nothing was getting done. I just shut them down and waited a while and sure enough, Luna has been surveyed.
Boy, I feel dumb. :-[
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Oh jeez. I think I figured out what I was doing wrong.
I didn't know about the lack of survey point notification on the drones, which is one thing - or that using the show survey points option in the Display 2 menu only shows the max, not how many are left. . .
But the biggest problem I was having was forgetting to put the PDC silos on cease fire after the launches. I was unknowingly getting stuck in 5 second turn increments that I wasn't noticing and nothing was getting done. I just shut them down and waited a while and sure enough, Luna has been surveyed.
Boy, I feel dumb. :-[
That doesn't solve the issue for you. Survey Points relate to grav surveys not geo surveys.
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That doesn't solve the issue for you. Survey Points relate to grav surveys not geo surveys.
Huh, didn't realize that.
Anyway, the issue I have now after many attempts adding new designs with SM, is that my separation range doesn't stick.
I always set it to zero when I create the missile, but after I fire it, it looks like it retroactively changes the value to 150,000 kM again.
EDIT: False alarm. Guess I'm still having trouble with the interface, and should really have checked the option for surveyed bodies being highlighted earlier.
Turns out Luna was already surveyed, but it had nothing, and there was no event log entry to tell me that.
Turns out Mars is also without minerals on a first sweep! Darn :/
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gravs= survey locations
survey points are for both geo and grav, and determine how long it takes to survey something