Missile centric fleet crtique

[Iceranger (OP)]

This is a series of ships that I usually go for, and I would appreciate some critics on them. The most recent missile tactics I have bene using is that using relatively fast and medium/short ranged ASMs.

First is a series of 12kt destroyer classes:

ASM destroyer, the main composition of the destroyer fleet.

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Gearing class Destroyer      12,000 tons       280 Crew       3,734.4 BP       TCS 240    TH 3,840    EM 0
16000 km/s      Armour 5-46       Shields 0-0       HTK 101      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 10      PPV 37.8
Maint Life 3.20 Years     MSP 2,745    AFR 115%    IFR 1.6%    1YR 403    5YR 6,050    Max Repair 960 MSP
Magazine 1,146   
Captain    Control Rating 2   BRG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Morale Check Required   

Inertial Fusion Drive  EP1920.00 (2)    Power 3840    Fuel Use 34.45%    Signature 1920    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 909,000 Litres    Range 39.6 billion km (28 days at full power)

Size 6 Missile Launcher (30.0% Reduction) (21)     Missile Size: 6    Rate of Fire 920
Missile Fire Control FC33-R10 (3)     Range 33.7m km    Resolution 10
ASM 6/25/64k/30/ECM/ECCM (191)    Speed: 64,000 km/s    End: 7.9m     Range: 30.3m km    WH: 25    Size: 6    TH: 533/320/160

Active Search Sensor AS33-R10 (1)     GPS 240     Range 33.7m km    Resolution 10

Compact ECCM-5 (3)         ECM 60

AFM destroyer, provide anti fighter capabilities. Typically 1 in a fleet due to its cost. The AFM is designed to mainly counter beam fighters or boarding shuttles, and shared with the interceptors to provide long range anti-fighter capability. A bridging hull based on this ship can enable a shipyard to build all 3 types of missile destroyers here.

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Summer class Destroyer      12,000 tons       277 Crew       5,184.4 BP       TCS 240    TH 3,840    EM 0
16000 km/s      Armour 5-46       Shields 0-0       HTK 117      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 12      PPV 38.4
Maint Life 4.40 Years     MSP 4,040    AFR 96%    IFR 1.3%    1YR 337    5YR 5,060    Max Repair 960 MSP
Magazine 776   
Captain    Control Rating 2   BRG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Morale Check Required   

Inertial Fusion Drive  EP1920.00 (2)    Power 3840    Fuel Use 34.45%    Signature 1920    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 959,000 Litres    Range 41.8 billion km (30 days at full power)

Size 3.0 Missile Launcher (40.0% Reduction) (32)     Missile Size: 3    Rate of Fire 130
Missile Fire Control FC26-R5 (16)     Range 26.7m km    Resolution 5
AFM 3/9/57k/28 (258)    Speed: 56,933 km/s    End: 8.2m     Range: 28m km    WH: 9    Size: 3    TH: 1081/649/324

Active Search Sensor AS35-R5 (1)     GPS 210     Range 35.4m km    Resolution 5

Compact ECCM-5 (16)         ECM 60

PD destroyer escort:

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Nicolas class Destroyer Escort      12,000 tons       356 Crew       4,333.4 BP       TCS 240    TH 3,840    EM 0
16000 km/s      Armour 5-46       Shields 0-0       HTK 115      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 10      PPV 79.2
Maint Life 3.68 Years     MSP 3,456    AFR 115%    IFR 1.6%    1YR 397    5YR 5,956    Max Repair 960 MSP
Captain    Control Rating 2   BRG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Morale Check Required   

Inertial Fusion Drive  EP1920.00 (2)    Power 3840    Fuel Use 34.45%    Signature 1920    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 929,000 Litres    Range 40.5 billion km (29 days at full power)

Single Gauss Cannon R200-17.00 Turret (60x6)    Range 20,000km     TS: 40000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 20,000 km    ROF 5       
Beam Fire Control R150-TS40000 (2)     Max Range: 150,000 km   TS: 40,000 km/s     93 87 80 73 67 60 53 47 40 33

Active Search Sensor AS17-R1 (1)     GPS 30     Range 17.5m km    MCR 1.6m km    Resolution 1

ECCM-6 (2)         ECM 60

AMM destroyer escort. I'm still undecided on putting ECCM on AMMs, since based on my tests, with high agility tech an AMM without ECCM can perform reasonably well, and can be much cheaper.

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Fletcher class Destroyer Escort      12,000 tons       343 Crew       4,009 BP       TCS 240    TH 3,840    EM 0
16000 km/s      Armour 5-46       Shields 0-0       HTK 86      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 10      PPV 27
Maint Life 3.79 Years     MSP 3,688    AFR 115%    IFR 1.6%    1YR 403    5YR 6,044    Max Repair 960 MSP
Magazine 1,056   
Captain    Control Rating 2   BRG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Morale Check Required   

Inertial Fusion Drive  EP1920.00 (2)    Power 3840    Fuel Use 34.45%    Signature 1920    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 939,000 Litres    Range 40.9 billion km (29 days at full power)

Size 1.2 Missile Launcher (75.00% Reduction) (30)     Missile Size: 1.2    Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC31-R1 (5)     Range 31.3m km    Resolution 1
AMM 1.2/1/75k/2/ECCM (480)    Speed: 75,167 km/s    End: 0.5m     Range: 2.1m km    WH: 1    Size: 1.2    TH: 1478/886/443
AMM 1/1/96k/2 (480)    Speed: 96,000 km/s    End: 0.4m     Range: 2.1m km    WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 2336/1401/700

Active Search Sensor AS28-R1 (1)     GPS 78     Range 28.2m km    MCR 2.5m km    Resolution 1

Compact ECCM-5 (5)         ECM 60

Jump destroyer, two per fleet. Typically I put the jump drive on the sensor ship, but now it is very tempting to give the sensor ship a large sheild. With a bridging hull, this can be built in the same yard with the PD escort.

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Porter class Jump Destroyer Escort      12,000 tons       330 Crew       4,025.8 BP       TCS 240    TH 3,840    EM 3,630
16000 km/s    JR 3-50      Armour 10-46       Shields 121-378       HTK 91      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 10      PPV 42.24
Maint Life 3.41 Years     MSP 3,296    AFR 115%    IFR 1.6%    1YR 432    5YR 6,484    Max Repair 960 MSP
Captain    Control Rating 2   BRG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Morale Check Required   

J12000(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 12000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3

Inertial Fusion Drive  EP1920.00 (2)    Power 3840    Fuel Use 34.45%    Signature 1920    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 946,000 Litres    Range 41.2 billion km (29 days at full power)
Omicron S121 / R378 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 378 seconds (0.3 per second)

Single Gauss Cannon R200-17.00 Turret (32x6)    Range 20,000km     TS: 40000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 20,000 km    ROF 5       
Beam Fire Control R150-TS40000 (1)     Max Range: 150,000 km   TS: 40,000 km/s     93 87 80 73 67 60 53 47 40 33

Active Search Sensor AS17-R1 (1)     GPS 30     Range 17.5m km    MCR 1.6m km    Resolution 1

ECCM-6 (1)         ECM 60

Sensor destroyer, two per fleet

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Sentry class Sensor Platform      12,000 tons       336 Crew       5,245.8 BP       TCS 12    TH 3,840    EM 3,630
16000 km/s      Armour 10-46       Shields 121-378       HTK 61      Sensors 320/320/0/0      DCR 40      PPV 0
Maint Life 2.89 Years     MSP 3,132    AFR 115%    IFR 1.6%    1YR 553    5YR 8,291    Max Repair 960 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Morale Check Required   

Inertial Fusion Drive  EP1920.00 (2)    Power 3840    Fuel Use 34.45%    Signature 1920    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 1,018,000 Litres    Range 44.3 billion km (32 days at full power)
Omicron S121 / R378 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 378 seconds (0.3 per second)

Active Search Sensor AS362-R100 (1)     GPS 60000     Range 362.9m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor AS78-R1 (1)     GPS 600     Range 78.2m km    MCR 7m km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH10-320 (1)     Sensitivity 320     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  141.4m km
EM Sensor EM10-320 (1)     Sensitivity 320     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  141.4m km
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 5.00% of normal

ECM 60

A light carrier provides long range scouts and long range anti-fighter capabilities. It carries ultra light interceptors and scouts.

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Indy class Light Carrier      12,000 tons       252 Crew       3,096.5 BP       TCS 240    TH 3,840    EM 0
16000 km/s      Armour 4-46       Shields 0-0       HTK 80      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 10      PPV 0
Maint Life 3.64 Years     MSP 3,612    AFR 115%    IFR 1.6%    1YR 422    5YR 6,333    Max Repair 960 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 3,000 tons     Magazine 486   
Commander    Control Rating 2   BRG   PFC   
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Flight Crew Berths 60    Morale Check Required   

Inertial Fusion Drive  EP1920.00 (2)    Power 3840    Fuel Use 34.45%    Signature 1920    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 1,055,000 Litres    Range 45.9 billion km (33 days at full power)

AFM 3/9/57k/28 (162)    Speed: 56,933 km/s    End: 8.2m     Range: 28m km    WH: 9    Size: 3    TH: 1081/649/324

ECM 60

Strike Group
20x Needle Interceptor   Speed: 40117 km/s    Size: 2.39
2x Needle Scout Interceptor   Speed: 40117 km/s    Size: 2.39
3x Shadow Scout Fighter   Speed: 24070 km/s    Size: 2.39

Ultra light interceptor, operates within the fleet's , should be hard for enemy bomber squadrons to detect.

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Needle class Interceptor      120 tons       3 Crew       61.2 BP       TCS 2    TH 96    EM 0
40117 km/s      Armour 1-2       Shields 0-0       HTK 1      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0.9
Maint Life 3.69 Years     MSP 20    AFR 24%    IFR 0.3%    1YR 2    5YR 34    Max Repair 48 MSP
Magazine 6   
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 30 days    Morale Check Required   

Inertial Fusion Drive  EP96.00 (1)    Power 96    Fuel Use 1232.38%    Signature 96    Explosion 30%
Fuel Capacity 10,000 Litres    Range 1.2 billion km (8 hours at full power)

Size 3.0 Box Launcher (2)     Missile Size: 3    Hangar Reload 86 minutes    MF Reload 14 hours
Missile Fire Control FC26-R5 (1)     Range 26.7m km    Resolution 5
AFM 3/9/57k/28 (2)    Speed: 56,933 km/s    End: 8.2m     Range: 28m km    WH: 9    Size: 3    TH: 1081/649/324

The sensor fighters to accompany the interceptors:

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Needle Scout class Interceptor      120 tons       5 Crew       96.1 BP       TCS 2    TH 96    EM 0
40117 km/s      Armour 1-2       Shields 0-0       HTK 1      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 31.90 Years     MSP 70    AFR 1%    IFR 0.0%    1YR 0    5YR 2    Max Repair 48 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 30 days    Morale Check Required   

Inertial Fusion Drive  EP96.00 (1)    Power 96    Fuel Use 1232.38%    Signature 96    Explosion 30%
Fuel Capacity 18,000 Litres    Range 2.2 billion km (15 hours at full power)

Active Search Sensor AS35-R5 (1)     GPS 210     Range 35.4m km    Resolution 5

Scout for detecting large ships:

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Shadow class Scout Fighter      120 tons       5 Crew       82.9 BP       TCS 2    TH 58    EM 0
24070 km/s      Armour 1-2       Shields 0-0       HTK 1      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 32.68 Years     MSP 63    AFR 1%    IFR 0.0%    1YR 0    5YR 2    Max Repair 48.0 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 9 days    Morale Check Required   

Inertial Fusion Drive  EP57.60 (1)    Power 57.6    Fuel Use 471.40%    Signature 57.60    Explosion 20%
Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres    Range 6.4 billion km (3 days at full power)

Active Search Sensor AS102-R100 (1)     GPS 4800     Range 102.6m km    Resolution 100

Then a few heavier ships:

A heavy cruiser that is capable of attacking and defending herself.

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Albany class Heavy Cruiser      48,000 tons       1,345 Crew       16,277.8 BP       TCS 960    TH 15,360    EM 0
16000 km/s      Armour 10-117       Shields 0-0       HTK 391      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 130      PPV 180
Maint Life 3.53 Years     MSP 18,436    AFR 263%    IFR 3.7%    1YR 2,275    5YR 34,128    Max Repair 2560 MSP
Magazine 3,474   
Captain    Control Rating 3   BRG   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Morale Check Required   

Inertial Fusion Drive  EP5120.00 (3)    Power 15360    Fuel Use 25.60%    Signature 5120    Explosion 16%
Fuel Capacity 3,038,000 Litres    Range 44.5 billion km (32 days at full power)

Single Gauss Cannon R200-17.00 Turret (30x6)    Range 20,000km     TS: 40000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 20,000 km    ROF 5       
Beam Fire Control R150-TS40000 (2)     Max Range: 150,000 km   TS: 40,000 km/s     93 87 80 73 67 60 53 47 40 33

Size 6 Missile Launcher (30.0% Reduction) (63)     Missile Size: 6    Rate of Fire 920
Size 1.2 Missile Launcher (75.00% Reduction) (30)     Missile Size: 1.2    Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC31-R1 (5)     Range 31.3m km    Resolution 1
Missile Fire Control FC33-R10 (9)     Range 33.7m km    Resolution 10
ASM 6/25/64k/30/ECM/ECCM (441)    Speed: 64,000 km/s    End: 7.9m     Range: 30.3m km    WH: 25    Size: 6    TH: 533/320/160
AMM 1.2/1/75k/2/ECCM (360)    Speed: 75,167 km/s    End: 0.5m     Range: 2.1m km    WH: 1    Size: 1.2    TH: 1478/886/443
AMM 1/1/96k/2 (396)    Speed: 96,000 km/s    End: 0.4m     Range: 2.1m km    WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 2336/1401/700

Active Search Sensor AS28-R1 (1)     GPS 78     Range 28.2m km    MCR 2.5m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor AS33-R10 (1)     GPS 240     Range 33.7m km    Resolution 10

ECCM-6 (2)     Compact ECCM-5 (14)         ECM 60

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

A heavy command cruiser.

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Aigaion class Command Cruiser      48,000 tons       1,414 Crew       17,499.3 BP       TCS 960    TH 15,360    EM 40,260
16000 km/s    JR 3-50      Armour 10-117       Shields 1342-671       HTK 297      Sensors 320/320/0/0      DCR 100      PPV 79.2
Maint Life 3.28 Years     MSP 19,110    AFR 263%    IFR 3.7%    1YR 2,689    5YR 40,342    Max Repair 2560 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 1,000 tons     Troop Capacity 1,000 tons     
Captain    Control Rating 5   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   FLG   
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Flight Crew Berths 20    Morale Check Required   

J48000(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 48000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3

Inertial Fusion Drive  EP5120.00 (3)    Power 15360    Fuel Use 25.60%    Signature 5120    Explosion 16%
Fuel Capacity 4,003,000 Litres    Range 58.6 billion km (42 days at full power)
Omicron S671 / R671 Shields (2)     Recharge Time 671 seconds (2 per second)

Single Gauss Cannon R200-17.00 Turret (60x6)    Range 20,000km     TS: 40000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 20,000 km    ROF 5       
Beam Fire Control R150-TS40000 (2)     Max Range: 150,000 km   TS: 40,000 km/s     93 87 80 73 67 60 53 47 40 33

Active Search Sensor AS362-R100 (1)     GPS 60000     Range 362.9m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor AS78-R1 (1)     GPS 600     Range 78.2m km    MCR 7m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor AS168-R10 (1)     GPS 6000     Range 168.4m km    Resolution 10
EM Sensor EM10-320 (1)     Sensitivity 320     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  141.4m km
Thermal Sensor TH10-320 (1)     Sensitivity 320     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  141.4m km

ECCM-6 (2)         ECM 60

Strike Group
8x Shadow Scout Fighter   Speed: 24070 km/s    Size: 2.39

A fleet carrier, still mainly on anti-fighter role.

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Yorktown class Carrier      48,000 tons       1,110 Crew       12,306.7 BP       TCS 960    TH 15,360    EM 0
16000 km/s      Armour 8-117       Shields 0-0       HTK 298      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 70      PPV 0
Maint Life 2.91 Years     MSP 13,217    AFR 263%    IFR 3.7%    1YR 2,304    5YR 34,563    Max Repair 2560 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 13,000 tons     Magazine 1,773   
Captain    Control Rating 3   BRG   ENG   PFC   
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Flight Crew Berths 260    Morale Check Required   

Inertial Fusion Drive  EP5120.00 (3)    Power 15360    Fuel Use 25.60%    Signature 5120    Explosion 16%
Fuel Capacity 4,153,000 Litres    Range 60.8 billion km (44 days at full power)

Filler (1)     Total Power Output 0    Exp 5%
AFM 3/9/57k/28 (384)    Speed: 56,933 km/s    End: 8.2m     Range: 28m km    WH: 9    Size: 3    TH: 1081/649/324
AFM 3/16/56k/7 (207)    Speed: 55,867 km/s    End: 2.1m     Range: 7.1m km    WH: 16    Size: 3    TH: 540/324/162

ECM 60

Strike Group
96x Needle Interceptor   Speed: 40117 km/s    Size: 2.39
8x Needle Scout Interceptor   Speed: 40117 km/s    Size: 2.39
4x Shadow Scout Fighter   Speed: 24070 km/s    Size: 2.39

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s


[DFNewb]

I would make the AFM 3/9/57k/28 (2)    Speed: 56,933 km/s    End: 8.2m     Range: 28m km    WH: 9    Size: 3    TH: 1081/649/324 shorter ranged as the fighters are 120 tons so they probably won't be seen at 28m km away. You can probably safely get within 15m km.

[Scud]

It looks like your engines have no thermal sig reduction tech; your heavy cruisers have the same thermal signature as a medium-sized colony. It’s going to be hard to hide from enemy passive detection, especially at this tech level.

[Iceranger (OP)]

It looks like your engines have no thermal sig reduction tech; your heavy cruisers have the same thermal signature as a medium-sized colony. It’s going to be hard to hide from enemy passive detection, especially at this tech level.

Since the main offensive weapons are short ranged ASMs, being stealthy isn't much of a concern for the fleet. The interceptors are designed to be sneaky, but the capital ships are not. The cloaking device on the sensor ship is mainly for creating targeting difficulities for the enemies.

[Iceranger (OP)]

I would make the AFM 3/9/57k/28 (2)    Speed: 56,933 km/s    End: 8.2m     Range: 28m km    WH: 9    Size: 3    TH: 1081/649/324 shorter ranged as the fighters are 120 tons so they probably won't be seen at 28m km away. You can probably safely get within 15m km.

Tried with some shorter ranged AFM designs:

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Missile Size: 3.0000 MSP (7.5000 Tons)    Warhead: 9    Radiation Damage: 9    Manoeuver Rating: 44
Speed: 81,867 km/s    Fuel: 629    Flight Time: 184 seconds    Range: 15.09 Mkm
Cost Per Missile: 10.40020    Development Cost: 1,040
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 3602.1%   3k km/s 1200.7%   5k km/s 720.4%   10k km/s 360.2%   20k km/s 180.1%   50k km/s 72.0%   100k km/s 36.0%

It is indeed faster and more accurate, however the range is probably a bit short to double as a ship based AFM.

[misanthropope]

i believe you can spare a point of warhead (or two) in an anti-fighter missile, which gives you plenty of latitude for your other specifications.  always nice to troll the forum by building warheads at n^2 - 1.

i think the anti-fighter sensor is too high-resolution.  res 5 is about right in the I(r)on Age, but it's natural to build missile fighters at the same tonnage you yourself did by the end of the fusion epoch. 

[Iceranger (OP)]

i believe you can spare a point of warhead (or two) in an anti-fighter missile, which gives you plenty of latitude for your other specifications.  always nice to troll the forum by building warheads at n^2 - 1.

i think the anti-fighter sensor is too high-resolution.  res 5 is about right in the I(r)on Age, but it's natural to build missile fighters at the same tonnage you yourself did by the end of the fusion epoch.

Indeed, the anti fighter sensor was one of the few components that I didn't design to counter my own fleet. Since it is tricky to cramp all the things needed into a 120 ton fighter

The anti-fighter missile can be used in anti-ship role in an emergency. Due to their high agility, they are less affected by the ECM so they have a fair chance to hit a ship that is much slower than a fighter.

[amram]

i believe you can spare a point of warhead (or two) in an anti-fighter missile, which gives you plenty of latitude for your other specifications.  always nice to troll the forum by building warheads at n^2 - 1.

I like warheads in the n², n²+n, and n²+2n ranges, since they are 1, 2, and 3 damage at n penetration.  Just so long as one remembers that n²+2n is really just (n+1)²-1.  So the useful warheads would be 6, 8, and 9 damage, getting 2, 3, and 4 damage at 2 penetration(this one being 1 damage at 3 penetration...) respectively.  Could definitely divert that into fuel to reclaim some of the lost range while keeping the speed up, might be a happy middle ground in there.

[Iceranger (OP)]

i believe you can spare a point of warhead (or two) in an anti-fighter missile, which gives you plenty of latitude for your other specifications.  always nice to troll the forum by building warheads at n^2 - 1.

I like warheads in the n², n²+n, and n²+2n ranges, since they are 1, 2, and 3 damage at n penetration.  Just so long as one remembers that n²+2n is really just (n+1)²-1.  So the useful warheads would be 6, 8, and 9 damage, getting 2, 3, and 4 damage at 2 penetration(this one being 1 damage at 3 penetration...) respectively.  Could definitely divert that into fuel to reclaim some of the lost range while keeping the speed up, might be a happy middle ground in there.

I do use n² + n sometimes if the next n² is too hard to reach. But I have never used n²-1 warheads. I guess in the context of AFMs the penetration does not matter too much, especially when shock damage is now super effective against fighter sized ships.

[misanthropope]

amram

for anti fighter work what matters is "warhead minus total fighter armor", and ime 7 suffices.   against expected fusion-tech antagonists, a 9 point warhead is still just spam.

iceranger

shipkillers can spare ~15 kkps, and the frame can be 15% bigger, feel those things relieve design constraints.  as much effort as you're putting into fighter defense (we see eye to eye there) its hard to justify leaving a window open for a fairly vanilla fighter attack mode.  one of the nice things about fighters is how little extra effort it takes to adapt

n^2 - 1 is really just for troll value, it's anti-optimal but the difference between max and min is meaningless

[Spartus001]

Clearly you put a lot of work and thought into your designs, and they look pretty good.  A good combined unit with specialized ships and roles is a great way to go.   The only real issue I see is your reload time for your size 6 and size 3 launchers.   A reload time of 920 for your ASMs is over 15 minutes.   In a battle with 5 second increments, 15 minutes is an eternity!  Especially if you realize after launch (or impact) that you just fired your whole volley at a spoiler fuel harvester, not the missile cruiser you thought you had.   I can understand that reducing launcher size will give you more launchers for a better throw weight to your salvos, but the 15 minute reload means you wont likely get more than one off before the battle is over.    Your missiles are fast and short ranged too, so they will cover that range very quickly, leaving you with little to do other than absorb many, many volleys of incoming fire while you wait.   Same with your anti fighter missiles, the reload is over 2 minutes.   Fighter sized craft are FAST, (yours are 24k to 40k) and two minutes gives them time between volleys to move into or out of range with impunity.   Hopefully your first volley is effective, or your fighters can track them down while you wait for a reload.

I generally keep my ASM launchers around size 6 as well, but make sure that they can spew out a missile salvo every 20 to 30 seconds.   At your tech level, this should be no issue.   Smaller salvos in rapid succession can be very hard to defend against, particularly if you have a large number of ships (or fighters) to throw them with.   Consider using missile destroyers with 8 or 10 launchers in grouped in four or five per FC and enough magazine space for 8 or 10 salvos in rapid fire.   Try smaller missile warheads are of 9, 12 or 16 and as fast as you can manage them with a range of about 80 million kms or better, so you can hit them first and bugger off if need be, or at least have an opening range engagement.   Plus I find this gives me time and range for my bombers to launch close in, time on target attacks that will overwhelm any defenses.

Good luck!

[Iceranger (OP)]

Clearly you put a lot of work and thought into your designs, and they look pretty good.  A good combined unit with specialized ships and roles is a great way to go.   The only real issue I see is your reload time for your size 6 and size 3 launchers.   A reload time of 920 for your ASMs is over 15 minutes.   In a battle with 5 second increments, 15 minutes is an eternity!  Especially if you realize after launch (or impact) that you just fired your whole volley at a spoiler fuel harvester, not the missile cruiser you thought you had.   I can understand that reducing launcher size will give you more launchers for a better throw weight to your salvos, but the 15 minute reload means you wont likely get more than one off before the battle is over.    Your missiles are fast and short ranged too, so they will cover that range very quickly, leaving you with little to do other than absorb many, many volleys of incoming fire while you wait.   Same with your anti fighter missiles, the reload is over 2 minutes.   Fighter sized craft are FAST, (yours are 24k to 40k) and two minutes gives them time between volleys to move into or out of range with impunity.   Hopefully your first volley is effective, or your fighters can track them down while you wait for a reload.

I generally keep my ASM launchers around size 6 as well, but make sure that they can spew out a missile salvo every 20 to 30 seconds.   At your tech level, this should be no issue.   Smaller salvos in rapid succession can be very hard to defend against, particularly if you have a large number of ships (or fighters) to throw them with.   Consider using missile destroyers with 8 or 10 launchers in grouped in four or five per FC and enough magazine space for 8 or 10 salvos in rapid fire.   Try smaller missile warheads are of 9, 12 or 16 and as fast as you can manage them with a range of about 80 million kms or better, so you can hit them first and bugger off if need be, or at least have an opening range engagement.   Plus I find this gives me time and range for my bombers to launch close in, time on target attacks that will overwhelm any defenses.

Good luck!

Indeed 920 seconds is a lot in combat, but for missile ships, I feel this is workable. Especially when in VB6, such reload would be easily 40 mins.

I value salvo size much more than RoF when using missiles offensively, since the larger the salvo size, the smaller percentage can be shot down by PD. The fleet is designed to weather the incoming missile fire until I can get in my range. Kind of in between missile ships and beam ships. Thus the fleet is fast (in missile ship standard, and I'd say these ships are not slow in beam ship standard), and heavy defenses are put on high value targets (sensor platforms and jump ships).

The range of my short ranged ASMs is chosen on purpose to accomodate the firing rate. At 30mkm range, a 32kkm/s speed difference can cover this range in 930s. This mean if my fleet can try to keep the distance from the enemy fleet by moving away, my fleet can fire all their salvos. My DDs hold 9 salvos each, and my CAs hold 7 salvos each. Thus if the enemy's speed is below 21kkm/s, I have enough time to fire all 7 salvos, or if they are below 20kkm/s, I have time to fire all 9 salvos.

Similarly for the AFM. The missile itself was designed for the interceptor initially, so I adjusted my magazine depth and the firing rate so the AFM wielding ship can fire as many as possible in a single salvo, while having some reloading capabilities. The Summer class holds 8 salvos of missiles, needing 1050 seconds to empty its magazine. Assuming the missiles are fired starting from 25mkm range, the incoming (beam) fighters need to be about 23.8kkm/s faster than my fleet to reach my fleet within that time frame.

[Iceranger (OP)]

Updated the AFM destroyer so it has dedicated sensors and MFCs designed for her:

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Summer class Destroyer      12,000 tons       277 Crew       5,293.7 BP       TCS 240    TH 3,840    EM 0
16000 km/s      Armour 5-46       Shields 0-0       HTK 117      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 12      PPV 38.4
Maint Life 4.20 Years     MSP 3,708    AFR 96%    IFR 1.3%    1YR 338    5YR 5,064    Max Repair 960 MSP
Magazine 776   
Captain    Control Rating 2   BRG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Morale Check Required   

Inertial Fusion Drive  EP1920.00 (2)    Power 3840    Fuel Use 34.45%    Signature 1920    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 914,000 Litres    Range 39.8 billion km (28 days at full power)

Size 3.0 Missile Launcher (40.0% Reduction) (32)     Missile Size: 3    Rate of Fire 130
Missile Fire Control FC27-R2 (16)     Range 27.9m km    Resolution 2
AFM 3/9/57k/28 (258)    Speed: 56,933 km/s    End: 8.2m     Range: 28m km    WH: 9    Size: 3    TH: 1081/649/324

Active Search Sensor AS31-R2 (1)     GPS 120     Range 31.1m km    Resolution 2

Compact ECCM-5 (16)         ECM 60

I realized there isn't any ELINT modules in my fleet to gather enemy active sensor information. So I managed to squeeze them into the command ships, at the price of some PD or troop space:

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Porter class Jump Destroyer Escort      12,000 tons       323 Crew       4,275.3 BP       TCS 240    TH 3,840    EM 3,630
16000 km/s    JR 3-50      Armour 10-46       Shields 121-378       HTK 85      Sensors 0/160/0/0      DCR 10      PPV 31.36
Maint Life 3.40 Years     MSP 3,426    AFR 115%    IFR 1.6%    1YR 451    5YR 6,764    Max Repair 960 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Morale Check Required   

J12000(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 12000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3

Inertial Fusion Drive  EP1920.00 (2)    Power 3840    Fuel Use 34.45%    Signature 1920    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 910,000 Litres    Range 39.6 billion km (28 days at full power)
Omicron S121 / R378 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 378 seconds (0.3 per second)

Single Gauss Cannon R200-17.00 Turret (23x6)    Range 20,000km     TS: 40000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 20,000 km    ROF 5       
Gauss Cannon R200-17.00 (1x6)    Range 20,000km     TS: 16,000 km/s     Accuracy Modifier 17.00%     RM 20,000 km    ROF 5       
Beam Fire Control R150-TS40000 (1)     Max Range: 150,000 km   TS: 40,000 km/s     93 87 80 73 67 60 53 47 40 33

Active Search Sensor AS17-R1 (1)     GPS 30     Range 17.5m km    MCR 1.6m km    Resolution 1
EM Sensor EM5-160 (1)     Sensitivity 160     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  100m km
ELINT Module (1)     Sensitivity 14     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  29.6m km

ECCM-6 (1)         ECM 60


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Aigaion class Command Cruiser      48,000 tons       1,434 Crew       17,800 BP       TCS 960    TH 15,360    EM 40,260
16000 km/s    JR 3-50      Armour 10-117       Shields 1342-671       HTK 304      Sensors 320/320/0/0      DCR 100      PPV 79.2
Maint Life 3.30 Years     MSP 19,384    AFR 263%    IFR 3.7%    1YR 2,693    5YR 40,399    Max Repair 2560 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 1,000 tons     Troop Capacity 500 tons     
Captain    Control Rating 5   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   FLG   
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Flight Crew Berths 20    Morale Check Required   

J48000(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 48000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3

Inertial Fusion Drive  EP5120.00 (3)    Power 15360    Fuel Use 25.60%    Signature 5120    Explosion 16%
Fuel Capacity 3,948,000 Litres    Range 57.8 billion km (41 days at full power)
Omicron S671 / R671 Shields (2)     Recharge Time 671 seconds (2 per second)

Single Gauss Cannon R200-17.00 Turret (60x6)    Range 20,000km     TS: 40000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 20,000 km    ROF 5       
Beam Fire Control R150-TS40000 (2)     Max Range: 150,000 km   TS: 40,000 km/s     93 87 80 73 67 60 53 47 40 33

Active Search Sensor AS362-R100 (1)     GPS 60000     Range 362.9m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor AS78-R1 (1)     GPS 600     Range 78.2m km    MCR 7m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor AS168-R10 (1)     GPS 6000     Range 168.4m km    Resolution 10
EM Sensor EM10-320 (1)     Sensitivity 320     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  141.4m km
Thermal Sensor TH10-320 (1)     Sensitivity 320     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  141.4m km
ELINT Module (1)     Sensitivity 14     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  29.6m km

ECCM-6 (2)         ECM 60

Strike Group
8x Shadow Scout Fighter   Speed: 24070 km/s    Size: 2.39

And finally, a stealthy dedicated intelligence ship. I probably should put a CIWS somewhere on the ship, but I cannot squeeze it in...

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Eve class Intelligence Ship      6,000 tons       169 Crew       3,186.7 BP       TCS 6    TH 115    EM 0
12000 km/s    JR 3-50      Armour 6-29       Shields 0-0       HTK 38      Sensors 160/160/0/0      DCR 7      PPV 0
Maint Life 5.13 Years     MSP 4,323    AFR 41%    IFR 0.6%    1YR 274    5YR 4,109    Max Repair 1980.0000 MSP
Commander    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Morale Check Required   

J6000(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 6000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3

Inertial Fusion Drive  EP1440.00 TM 8% (1)    Power 1440.0    Fuel Use 23.02%    Signature 115.2000    Explosion 12%
Fuel Capacity 464,000 Litres    Range 60.5 billion km (58 days at full power)

Filler (1)     Total Power Output 0    Exp 5%
Active Search Sensor AS17-R1 (1)     GPS 30     Range 17.5m km    MCR 1.6m km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH5-160 (1)     Sensitivity 160     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  100m km
EM Sensor EM5-160 (1)     Sensitivity 160     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  100m km
ELINT Module (1)     Sensitivity 14     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  29.6m km
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 5.00% of normal

ECM 60


[Father Tim]

I'm not sure why an empire would build all those destroyers when it could build Albany heavy cruisers instead.  The main drawback of the CAs is that they can't be in four places at once, but really neither can the DDs since they can't handle independent operations.

Personally, at your shield tech I'd drop the fifth layer of armour on those destroyer designs that mount it, and install equal displacement of shields instead.  Currently your shields are big EM-blinking-billboards that say "I'm valuable; shoot me!"  (Though, granted, they make killing the valuable targets much more difficult.)

[Jorgen_CAB]

I would agree with Father Tim on this one... unless the destroyer class is something left over from the past I don't see why you would ever use them and not the larger cruisers who are so much more capable ships in all areas except stealth, but I don't think either is particular good at that anyway.

Super specialist ships is a huge liability anyway as you can easily be deprived of an important ability even by pure chance and that is not a sound military doctrine in my opinion. In my opinion highly specialised ships should be built below 10.000t... after this ships are capable of multiple mission operations so you don't put all your eggs in one basket. Especially at this technology level you should be able to make better use for those destroyer yards, perhaps expand most of them to larger sizes or tow them to a planet with no population for safe keeping to use at a later date. You probably could build some scout or patrol version of the destroyer yards meant mostly for low level engagement.

I never understood why you wanted the same capabilities from multiple ship classes just with different sizes. You also could make much better use of those shields. Personally I would drop the huge sensor ship in favour of a jump command ship that essentially is a carrier that have all the scouts and interceptors. You don't need a vulnerable super sensor ship anyway... you are generally better of with sensor scouts. But this is of course a personal preference.