Aurora 4x

New Players => The Academy => Topic started by: voteslave on January 05, 2016, 05:47:17 AM

Title: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: voteslave on January 05, 2016, 05:47:17 AM

I'll start - this is so dumb i am astounded by my own stupidity. . .

Seemed to be using a lot of Duranium hmmmmm - this goes on for years and i can't understand why.   Blamed it on building a "Spaceport" which never seemed to finish.   Finally i realize i have 26 (yes 26!) spaceports built on Earth.   My mistake?  When modifying the original spaceport build i had input 100 as the build number rather than the percentage!  Doh!!!!!!!

Cheers
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: MarcAFK on January 05, 2016, 07:20:45 AM
At least your cargo will load and unload stupidly fast!
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Sematary on January 05, 2016, 08:30:59 AM
I would say the big ones are making sure you have enough power plants for lasers, having magazines for your missiles, making sure missile launchers are the right size, having the right sensors and fire controls on the right ship. That's something everyone forgets every now and again.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Maltay on January 05, 2016, 08:50:04 AM
Calculating the width of the solar system and how much fuel I require for an incredibly economical geo survey craft.  Setting the "refuel at 50%" order and feeling proud.  Forgetting a few points:

1. Comets mean variable width; I run out of fuel

2. Five day increments mean I may use 4.99 days of fuel above and beyond 50% before the "refuel at 50%" order is triggered; I run out of fuel

My whole geo survey fleet ground to a halt within days of each other.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Zincat on January 05, 2016, 09:15:37 AM
THere's too many to possibly count. but here's one of the most infuriating.

Making cargo ships and troop transport with not enough capacity for what they have to carry XD
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Prince of Space on January 05, 2016, 09:50:15 AM
Designing a military ship (that doesn't spend most of its life in a hangar) with a Max Repair value that's larger than it's MSP (Maintenance Supply Point) value.

I wasn't even a newbie at the time, and that was one of my basic checkpoints when critiquing other peoples' ships on the forums. Still, I wasn't paying attention to my own design, so my destroyers started conking out during task force training. There's an old line that comes to mind about pointing out the speck in your brother's eye while ignoring the log in your own.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: MarcAFK on January 05, 2016, 09:53:42 AM
Don't leave home without fuel tanks.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Prince of Space on January 05, 2016, 09:58:52 AM
Don't leave home without fuel tanks.

And don't stay home with fuel tanks! (The new designs start off with a fuel tank by defualt, but most PDCs don't have a good reason to keep it.)
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: boggo2300 on January 05, 2016, 02:55:52 PM
I can't believe no-ones mentioned the infamous bombarding your homeworld with minerals by not having a catching Mass Driver!
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Erik L on January 05, 2016, 03:02:20 PM
And don't stay home with fuel tanks! (The new designs start off with a fuel tank by defualt, but most PDCs don't have a good reason to keep it.)

Fighter base.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Rich.h on January 05, 2016, 05:41:53 PM
"FIRE ALL MISSILES!"
"Um missiles sir?"

Is always a popular one.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: 83athom on January 05, 2016, 08:53:35 PM
Have a home for your fighters, before you build them.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: voteslave on January 06, 2016, 12:49:13 AM
Have a home for your fighters, before you build them.

i think this has saved me some pain :)
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Lordbane on January 14, 2016, 12:35:08 PM
Checking the AFR% on ships.  I had no idea what that did at first.  Had many of my first jump survey craft get stranded and have to be rescued.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Erik L on January 14, 2016, 01:55:19 PM
"FIRE ALL MISSILES!"
"Um missiles sir?"

Is always a popular one.

One I've done more than once...

"Fire the Mark IV's!"

"Tactical says they've not been loaded yet. All we have are the Mark I's"

Well... there goes that speed/range advantage...
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Havan_IronOak on February 03, 2016, 06:49:47 PM
I'm a newbie myself so I may be wrong on this but I consider these newbie mistakes that I've seen in You-tube Let's plays...

1) Choosing a Conventional Start and not making the other required changes. On a player's first play-through this is tempting but it actually puts the player at a disadvantage unless certain other options are set right.  Since this may put you behind other races, (NPR's), one should probably (at a bare minimum) bump up the # of research labs to allow for catching up.

1a) Electing to eliminate ICBM's in a conventional start and then worrying about required protection levels.

2) Being bothered by the frequent interrupts when a vessels gets too far from its home world and adding HUGE fuel tanks to the NextGen ships to compensate. Changing the conditional refuel orders to a higher level would have been a LOT more sensible.

3) Concentrating too early on strip mining the Sol system. Yes, Earth will run out of resources. Space must be mined but... hurrying to get mass drivers and auto-mines out to distant bodies when Earth's mines still outproduce the other bodies and Earth still has years of reserves of everything at better overall availabilities can be a mistake. 

4) Giving a Sorium Harvester orders to motor back to a colony itself to dump 90% of fuel as conditional order 1 then having conditional order 2 be Refuel when under 20%
 
5) Firing researchers with poor bonuses in hopes that new and better ones will spawn more quickly.

6) Deleting an (empty) Task group while still high on battle Adrenalin. Turns out it had 6 ground assault units and their escort and...

If I'm wrong on any of these, please correct me. I'm always anxious to learn. 

;D If I can't be a shining example at least I can be a glaring warning :o
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Sematary on February 03, 2016, 09:22:14 PM
The best thing to do with Sorium Harvestors, or so I have found, is to not give them engines at all. It requires you to research to get tugs (can't think of the name of the tech right now) but put them out there with huge deployment times and forget about them except to have tankers come by every so often to empty them.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: iceball3 on February 13, 2016, 11:16:09 PM
The best thing to do with Sorium Harvestors, or so I have found, is to not give them engines at all. It requires you to research to get tugs (can't think of the name of the tech right now) but put them out there with huge deployment times and forget about them except to have tankers come by every so often to empty them.
Does the harvesting rate go down when deployment time is gone through? If so, do recreational facilities mitigate that on gas giants? If so, then it's probably a good idea to stick one on your sorium harvester thing and leave deployment times at 3, for neatness and ease of headaches if you somehow go through your arbitrarily large deployment time.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: doulos05 on February 14, 2016, 01:59:10 AM
I, too, was under the impression the fuel refining rate isn't affected by morale...
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: ExChairman on February 14, 2016, 02:09:21 AM
Forgetting to include fire controls or sensors on a warships is bad for morale. My morale >:(
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: CharonJr on February 14, 2016, 02:57:13 AM
Since I just did this I can add to the list: Assume that every jump point leading from and to Sol has been gated by now and send in 50% of your fleet and your salvager, only to realise shortly after arriving there that there is no gate back to Earth (since 4 NPR gatebuilders have been blown up in system) and you have to crash-build a 360-day gatebuilder.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: iceball3 on February 14, 2016, 04:13:46 AM
Since I just did this I can add to the list: Assume that every jump point leading from and to Sol has been gated by now and send in 50% of your fleet and your salvager, only to realise shortly after arriving there that there is no gate back to Earth (since 4 NPR gatebuilders have been blown up in system) and you have to crash-build a 360-day gatebuilder.
Jump gates can also randomly occur on jump points at game start, whether there is another gate on the side is completely random.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Steve Walmsley on February 14, 2016, 06:27:32 AM
I, too, was under the impression the fuel refining rate isn't affected by morale...

It isn't.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: doulos05 on February 14, 2016, 07:31:03 AM
It isn't.

Almost makes me feel bad for the poor suckers who end up crewing those things now...
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: CharonJr on February 14, 2016, 07:55:18 AM
Well, RP reasons and you can build a OH via regular construction, freeing up shipyard ressources.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: 83athom on February 15, 2016, 06:24:08 AM
Conscript crews for things like those (refineries, freighters. etc).
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Havan_IronOak on February 20, 2016, 03:59:05 AM
In a conventional start....  Build an ICBM Missle complex instead of the Shiny New PDC you just designed.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: db48x on February 23, 2016, 09:51:30 AM
Here's one from my latest game:

Gas Removed       Sol             All traces of Safe Greenhouse Gas have been removed from the atmosphere of Earth
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Havan_IronOak on February 23, 2016, 12:12:33 PM
Conscript crews for things like those (refineries, freighters. etc).

OK... help a real newbie out here...   why is it a mistake to conscript a crew for a space freighter? I know that conscript crews have low morale and low morale affects performance on such things as geo-survey ships and all warships but what does low morale do on a freighter and even a refinery? Does morale matter on a gate construction ship?
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: iceball3 on February 23, 2016, 12:14:40 PM
OK... help a real newbie out here...   why is it a mistake to conscript a crew for a space freighter? I know that conscript crews have low morale and low morale affects performance on such things as geo-survey ships and all warships but what does low morale do on a freighter and even a refinery? Does morale matter on a gate construction ship?
A big concern with conscript crews is that they'll knock down the accuracy of your CIWS. So if any of your ships are using CIWS, consider normal crew and decent deployment time for them so that missiles are mildly less likely to cause sudden obliteration. Though, if you weren't planning on using CIWS anyway, then it should matter for things like freighting.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: DaMachinator on July 19, 2016, 11:52:16 AM
For some reason, freighters with captains who have a high training bonus accumulate grade points REALLY quickly.  So it doesn't matter too much.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Father Tim on September 30, 2016, 05:00:37 PM
For some reason, freighters with captains who have a high training bonus accumulate grade points REALLY quickly.  So it doesn't matter too much.

Generally it is because freighters have small crews.  Since training increases are X points, rather than X percent, dividing those X points among fewer crewmen makes the average crew rating rise faster.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: GodEmperor on October 01, 2016, 12:36:41 PM
I can't believe no-ones mentioned the infamous bombarding your homeworld with minerals by not having a catching Mass Driver!

But that is impossible ... Ships will refuse to remove last Mass Driver from the target planet if the payload is on route, you cant target planets without Mass Drivers etc.
Only possible situation where you can bombard your own planet is if your last mass Driver gets destroyed by ground combat/orbital bombardement with either spoilers or another empire while the payload is on route..
Or am i missing something ?

Quote
1a) Electing to eliminate ICBM's in a conventional start and then worrying about required protection levels.
Protection Level does not matter on your Capital planet and by the time you actually colonize something, you should be able to build waay more efficient and advanced PDC's.

Some mistakes from me :

Investing too much research into one aspect of the category drastically reduces overall efectivness of your ships - for example, having Tier 1 missiles ( warhead, agility etc ) with advanced engine is not always better than having more advanced missiles with slightly older engines. Or focusing on the sensors only to discover that your weapons cant benefit from that range.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Erik L on October 01, 2016, 04:40:05 PM
If one is in production, and not finished I believe you can remove the last whole one. 

But it used to be you could remove the last one. And people go splat.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: AbuDhabi on October 11, 2016, 08:27:27 AM
Ship design is perhaps the easiest to fail miserably at. I've had designs that I needed to refine like 3-4 times before I arrived at what I wanted, because:
- Forgot to increase the deployment time from 3 months.
- Forgot to put engines on.
- Forgot to put fuel on (accidentally removed it), or enough fuel on.
- Forgot to check that the yearly failure rate is acceptably low.
- Did not realize jump tenders had to be at least as big as who they're tending.
- Forgot to put tractor beams on tugs.
- Forgot to put salvage modules on salvagers.
- Forgot to put survey sensors on scouts.

Thank Steve for refits!
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: TCD on October 11, 2016, 10:30:13 AM
Perhaps this is a slightly more sophisticated newbie mistake than the forgetting vital components, but I still always underestimate how big sensors need to be. The thought of allocating that much space to sensors, probably on a dedicated ship, is hard to appreciate. I blame the other 4X games out there for skewing my perceptions.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Iranon on October 11, 2016, 01:56:02 PM
One common mistake I see is overstressed engines, compensated by a massive fuel load.
If you need to carry more than 40% of your engine weight in fuel, you lose performance (speed at a given size and range) as well as wasting fuel.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: littleWolf on October 11, 2016, 03:17:55 PM
I forgot make a colony BEFORE send and unload colonists to planet.  And every colony ships unload colonists and create separate colony.

(see 5!!! different human colonies on Mars)
 
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: TCD on October 11, 2016, 04:41:54 PM
I forgot make a colony BEFORE send and unload colonists to planet.  And every colony ships unload colonists and create separate colony.

(see 5!!! different human colonies on Mars)
FYI you can use SM mode to fix this- add up all the colonists & installations, change one colony to those numbers and delete the others.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: AbuDhabi on October 12, 2016, 01:04:41 AM
I forgot make a colony BEFORE send and unload colonists to planet.  And every colony ships unload colonists and create separate colony.

(see 5!!! different human colonies on Mars)

Well, you will have lots of population growth once you terraform! :)

You can even fix it without SpaceMaster Mode, if you simply move those colonists to one chosen colony, then abandon the empty ones. Happened to me once, with modified species.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: smoelf on October 24, 2016, 05:32:46 AM
Starting to mass produce your fighters before a hangar is ready for them.  8 out of 20 blew up due to mechanical failures, before I could build an emergency PDC with a hangar, as retooling and producing the carrier took longer than expected.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: MarcAFK on October 24, 2016, 07:05:15 AM
Starting to mass produce your fighters before a hangar is ready for them.  8 out of 20 blew up due to mechanical failures, before I could build an emergency PDC with a hangar, as retooling and producing the carrier took longer than expected.
Reminds me of what happened recently, started mass producing fighters before finishing all designs for ship systems, turns out the cost of continuously refitting already produced fighters every time a bug or problem was found is extremely expensive.
Should have just made more F22s
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: TCD on October 24, 2016, 11:04:37 AM
Reminds me of what happened recently, started mass producing fighters before finishing all designs for ship systems, turns out the cost of continuously refitting already produced fighters every time a bug or problem was found is extremely expensive.
Should have just made more F22s
Nice one. In a similar fashion the UK's new Type 45 destroyers not having enough power to run both their air conditioning and their weapon systems sounds like one of my own Aurora reactor design mishaps.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: MarcAFK on October 24, 2016, 11:13:06 AM
How much air con do they need? Sheesh, crack a window!
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Iranon on October 24, 2016, 11:54:58 AM
I don't get it either.
British sailors don't need such emasculating comfort features, British tech won't work even if you keep it cool and dry.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: MarcAFK on October 25, 2016, 01:17:56 AM
I don't get it either.
British sailors don't need such emasculating comfort features, British tech won't work even if you keep it cool and dry.
As long as the boiling vessel works it's all good.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: AbuDhabi on October 29, 2016, 01:21:26 AM
>be me
>have a 13 million strong orbital colony above a supervenusian planet
>orbital habitats produced on that planet do not automatically get counted for increased capacity
>i know how to fix this!
>simply tell the whole lot to move to the colony again, and they'll be counted
>mistakenly tell them to move to a different colony
>13 million perish instantly
>habitats now deorbited and there's no chance they'll catch the planet again at 1km/s
>mfw

Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Garfunkel on October 30, 2016, 07:33:40 PM
That is amazing  :D
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: 83athom on November 14, 2016, 11:37:43 AM
I never seem to remember this and the answer to it would best be put here so people don't make the mistake. Does the deployment time of PDCs actually go down on a colony that doesn't have any people or recreational facilities?
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: NuclearStudent on January 26, 2017, 08:47:20 PM
I never seem to remember this and the answer to it would best be put here so people don't make the mistake. Does the deployment time of PDCs actually go down on a colony that doesn't have any people or recreational facilities?

I've been told, on the subreddit, that the answer is yes.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: kellenbeck on August 10, 2017, 03:59:05 PM
I made a dumb newbie mistake just yesterday.  It can be explained quite simply in greentext:

>Just got the game
>Tries to make a science ship
>Thinks build points determines size
>Can't figure out all day why i can't retool any shipyards to make the ship
>Goes on reddit asking for how to fix while waiting on forum account to be approved
>"3509? is that Tons or HS?"
>Uploads screenshot of design docs
>Realizes I was measuring in build points
>Looks like an idiot
>Fixes ship and uploads screenshot of improved design docs
>Finally makes baby's first ship

Baby's first ship attached for anyone interested.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: gtg on September 15, 2017, 07:39:55 PM
Quote from: kellenbeck link=topic=8185. msg103854#msg103854 date=1502398745
I made a dumb newbie mistake just yesterday.   It can be explained quite simply in greentext:

>Just got the game
>Tries to make a science ship
>Thinks build points determines size
>Can't figure out all day why i can't retool any shipyards to make the ship
>Goes on reddit asking for how to fix while waiting on forum account to be approved
>"3509? is that Tons or HS?"
>Uploads screenshot of design docs
>Realizes I was measuring in build points
>Looks like an idiot
>Fixes ship and uploads screenshot of improved design docs
>Finally makes baby's first ship

Baby's first ship attached for anyone interested.

I made a similar mistake; I couldn't figure out why I couldn't retool for my survey ships, and then I realized it was because the slipways weren't big enough for my design.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: littleWolf on September 20, 2017, 05:52:55 AM
Baby's first ship attached for anyone interested.

WOW !  10ktons unarmed and blind light armored military ship with  tons of survay sensors and  trooper company...

Can you  show  his "design view" or "Full Summary" tab ?
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: GodEmperor on October 31, 2017, 02:33:57 PM
WOW !  10ktons unarmed and blind light armored military ship with  tons of survay sensors and  trooper company...

Can you  show  his "design view" or "Full Summary" tab ?

Well it has its uses - you could use him as exploration ship and drop a company to take over some listening post discovered or smallish colony.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: vorpal+5 on November 08, 2017, 12:44:51 PM
Can someone tell me how to repair a fighter? It is currently landed on its assigned PDC on Earth. Earth has enough MSP, but the fighter itself hold 0.

Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Father Tim on November 08, 2017, 12:46:17 PM
Its assigned PDC needs the Maintenance Supply Points, not Earth itself.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: vorpal+5 on November 09, 2017, 12:34:09 AM
Its assigned PDC needs the Maintenance Supply Points, not Earth itself.

But PDCs can't have MSP? Or can they? I have one which is showing N/A instead of 0.0 so I assumed PDC can never have MSP.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Paul M on November 09, 2017, 03:09:40 AM
But PDCs can't have MSP? Or can they? I have one which is showing N/A instead of 0.0 so I assumed PDC can never have MSP.


PDCs can't have engineering spaces but I'm fairly sure they can have maintenance bays, which is what you need if you want to repair using the PDC hangers.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: 83athom on November 09, 2017, 07:38:53 AM
PDCs can't have engineering spaces but I'm fairly sure they can have maintenance bays, which is what you need if you want to repair using the PDC hangers.
Can confirm ^this^ is correct.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: vorpal+5 on November 09, 2017, 08:01:44 AM
Aaaaaah!

Ok, will do. What is the difference in use (not in MSP capacity) between an engineering space and a maintenance bay?
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Paul M on November 09, 2017, 11:32:33 AM
And engineering bay reduces failure chances of your systems and it allows in/out of-combat repairs to destroyed systems (damage control).  The damage control technology improves this "damage control" to allow repair of damaged hull armour, as the NCC has not developed this tech I'm a bit unsure how it works in exact detail.   A maintenance bay simply holds excess maintenance supplies, either to increase your stockpile for that ship or more likely to serve as maintenance resupply ship for a group of ships.

The NCN's Edinbourgh class is an example of such a ship (actually is a combination of re-supply ship, collier and tanker):

Code: [Select]
Edinbourgh Mod2.2 class Support Vessel    4,500 tons     79 Crew     562.15 BP      TCS 90  TH 147  EM 360
3266 km/s     Armour 1-24     Shields 12-300     Sensors 24/24/0/0     Damage Control Rating 5     PPV 0
Maint Life 20.73 Years     MSP 1390    AFR 32%    IFR 0.4%    1YR 6    5YR 93    Max Repair 36 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 18 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 118   

Rolls Royce I E-M42L (7)    Power 42    Fuel Use 23.37%    Signature 21    Exp 7%
Fuel Capacity 650,000 Litres    Range 111.2 billion km   (394 days at full power)
GE Barrier G206 (6)   Total Fuel Cost  72 Litres per day

Arrow Anti-Ship Missile (Batch 2) (14)  Speed: 12,600 km/s   End: 22.8m    Range: 17.3m km   WH: 4    Size: 5    TH: 92 / 55 / 27
Falcon Counter Missile (Batch 3) (48)  Speed: 19,200 km/s   End: 2.4m    Range: 2.7m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 115 / 69 / 34

Seimens SCMS Sentinal II 82/3-0050 (1)     GPS 36     Range 2.9m km    Resolution 1
NorTEL IR Array 2-3 (1)     Sensitivity 24     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  24m km
Bell Phased Array P3-24 (1)     Sensitivity 24     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  24m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: vorpal+5 on November 10, 2017, 03:41:01 AM
Nice, thanks. To close the topic, a PDC with hangars, maintenance bay but without an engineering space can't repair fighters? I should probably redesign my fighter squadron base if that's true.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Paul M on November 10, 2017, 07:13:36 AM
Nice, thanks. To close the topic, a PDC with hangars, maintenance bay but without an engineering space can't repair fighters? I should probably redesign my fighter squadron base if that's true.

The NCN's "hanger bases" also lack engineering spaces or maintenance bays but they should be able to draw on the maintenance stored on the planet itself.  As I use FACs, which can be repaired in the space yards that built them, it has not been an issue for me.  Based on combat experience so far I'd say that you are only rarely going to have to repair damaged fighters, I have never had a damaged as opposed to destroyed fighter.   But that is largely dependant on your tech level...at low tech levels "fighters" and "FACs" are simple fragile and so are probably most likely destroyed if engaged.  Also so long as your fighter has an engineering space (and I put one in) then they can self repair in the hanger if I'm not mistaken.   Again, I can't say for certain since I've yet to have to deal with a damaged FAC or Fighter.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: vorpal+5 on November 10, 2017, 07:19:27 AM
I have a damaged fighter... because I use fighters also as pinnace, i.e custom purpose 'ships' of 500 tons. One is a small tanker, that can deliver 400.000 liters of fuel for a very very low cost in fuel usage. It lost is only engine while orbiting Earth, so this was not a real issue, but this is where I saw that my PDC with hangars (and only hangars) can't fix the issue, even with MSPs from Earth.

So I guess the solution is indeed to provide an engineering bay to the landing pad.

Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Paul M on November 10, 2017, 07:43:58 AM
You can give the tanker an engineering bay and this may solve the problem but PDCs can't have engineering spaces it isn't allowed in the design of them.   A maintenance bay may also solve this problem or you can design an orbital base with hangers and engineering spaces that lets you do the repairs.  The NCN has an orbital base which has the same hanger capacity as their PDC base and it is used for training of new "fighters" or FACs.

The NCN has 4 "fighter" types:  a Search and Rescue Pinnace, a courier (self jump capable), a recon/scout ship and a small tanker to refuel FACs.

My suggestion would be to include an engineering space in your fighters from now on.  It is only min-max nonsense that says you should not have one, and well that is all well and good but there are many a damn good reason to be able to self repair...such as loosing your one and only engine.   I use a small (and will eventually develop the tiny) engineering space on my FACs and "Fighters."
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Michael Sandy on November 10, 2017, 04:07:13 PM
One of my high priorities early on is half sized engineering systems.  I put them on my scouting pinnaces, and the PD escort fighters.

Part of it is RP.  I simply would not want to be on a solo ship exploring another system with no means of repairing crucial systems and no way to get help, simply because of budget matters.  I would take the somewhat lower speed and range, their job is dangerous enough.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Michael Sandy on November 10, 2017, 04:47:47 PM
I probe ALL jump points with scout pinnaces.  Either 250 ton ones that are really cheap, and use the minimum ship sensors to check out planets, or 500 ton ones with 3 HS sensors.

Scout pinnaces have 30-60 billion km range, a .5 hs engineering system.

Fleet scouts are much shorter endurance, with boosted engines and no jump drive or engineering system, and are used for tactical scouting, not strategic.

Once I get x.33 reduced sized launchers, I build a pinnace with a launcher, minimum fire control, and a magazine full of sensor missiles of various types.

A lot of AIs don't shoot at buoys or sensor missiles, so you can occasionally get a fix on them, and then get an idea of their passive sensor range when they start moving on detection of your battle fleet.  I like the game of trying to figure out the enemy's capacities before actually fighting them.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Father Tim on November 10, 2017, 06:32:24 PM
I can't remember if Hangar Bays repair the ships inside them(as long as sufficient MSP are available) or if Hangar Bays allow the mothership to use its Engineering spaces to repair the ships inside the HBs.  All I can suggest is to SpaceMaster some Maintenance Bays into your fighter base PDCs and try it.

(Don't forget to go to the Units screen and highlight the PDC in question to make sure Aurora has updated the record after making the SM changes.)
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Paul M on November 13, 2017, 02:47:22 AM
Bases can't be built with engineering spaces.  They can accept maintenance bays though.  I am not at all sure if you can have damage control on a PDC either.   At least this is true in the version I am playing, if it changed I am behind the times.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: vorpal+5 on November 13, 2017, 04:12:34 AM
Thanks guys, much appreciated!
You can't scrap fighters and get back something, right, unless you do a destroy and salvage them with a salvager? The clean way is to delete them?
When you scrap a ship, you get back minerals, but do you get build points for real?
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Paul M on November 13, 2017, 07:30:51 AM
When you scrap a ship you get back the systems installed in it (weapons, engines, sensors, shield generators, and a few other things) and some general minerals (I am not 100% sure that is the case actually).   When you scarp a fighter you get back the systems installed in it (engines, and sensors in my case) and some minerals.  You can scarp fighters from the "stockpile" view of the industrial operations page.  Push the stockpile button and you will see how many missiles and fighters you have at the planet.  Select the fighters you want to scarp and push scrap.  Just note that you will scrap all the fighters of that type that are present, you can't scrap say 6 of the 12...it is all or nothing.

You can then scrap the recovered systems for 30% of the minerals used to make them.  So I can scrap my transport ships and get (as an examples) their commercial engines out of them, then scrap the engines for 30% of the galacite used to build them.

You don't get "build points back" as they just determine how long a particular yard needs to build the ship.  Also it takes time to scrap a ship...but fighters are instantaneous.   In my AAR (I should update that) you see the "space frame renewal program" that was me scrapping just about every ship I had and rebuilding them.  With the time you save due to reusing systems that is often about the same time as a new build from scratch.

I hope this makes sense.   You can also scrap your old missiles, which yields a surprising amount of fuel and minerals.  Missiles soak up a lot of galacite and fuel.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: vorpal+5 on November 19, 2017, 11:52:13 AM
Yes it does, thanks much appreciated.

Unrelated, but I don't want to open too many threads on my name. How do you use a lifeboat to save your crew before an imminent destruction? Do I have to eject the very small craft, put the commander on board (not very courageous of him!), wait for my ship to blow up and then catch the survivors with the lifeboat?
I would like to put all the crew in the lifeboat before the main ship is blown up!

Or wait... I abandon the ship, it creates a wreck with all people in a lifeboat that I grab with my own lifeboat?
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Barkhorn on November 19, 2017, 12:52:26 PM
Launch a small craft, abandon the main ship, then pick up the life pods.  Those life pods should have everyone; you only lose people if the ship is destroyed by incoming fire, not if you abandon it.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: vorpal+5 on November 29, 2017, 12:26:52 AM
Once a CMC is set up, can I put my own automines while still having the CMC being able to grow further?
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Paul M on November 29, 2017, 02:13:45 AM
Once the CMC is founded you can put a colony of your own on the body without interfering with the growth of the CMC.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: vorpal+5 on November 29, 2017, 04:35:54 AM
yeah!!

Do you bother putting one commander per fighter, if you have spares?
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Paul M on November 29, 2017, 11:34:24 AM
After my initial experience with the Starslayer FAC I use one commander with initiative 170+ for each Flight (group of 3 Starslayers).   Since I really don't want a person with a low initiative value being commander I limit (usually) the number of commanders to 1.   In a few cases temporarily a commander gets assigned while waiting for a ship to finish building or something.

I'm not sure you are asking me in particular but so long as all officers have initiative 170+ I would not object to more officers in the flight.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: serger on November 29, 2017, 11:49:23 PM
I use officers to train nearly each battle fighter crew (especially for beam/kinetic ones), but usually I transfer them to newer fighters, when my wing is ready to fight. As for battle - one squadron, one officer (missile squadron in Aurora don't need an officer at all, but I just set them there for RP; beam/kinetic fighter and boarding assault dropship squadron or flight will really need a commander with high initiative skill).
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: vorpal+5 on November 29, 2017, 11:59:31 PM
But what about Fighter combat bonus from commander? If there is a single commander for a squadron of 12 fighters, I guess only the commander's fighter would get the bonus?
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Paul M on November 30, 2017, 11:50:16 AM
The Starslayers are FAC (Fast Attack Craft) not fighters so for me it is not a relevant consideration and based on experience what is more critical is that your commander has the imitative so the enemy moves first otherwise you will never close to the range of your weapons on the enemy.   Under the assumption you are using weapons with <100K km range.  For missile armed fighters this is likely not a consideration.

My suspicion would be that only the fighter with the commander gets the bonus.   In any case I would likely have my fighters broken down into flights (3-6 fighters) and each of those having a commander.   There is no obvious reason not to give fighters a commander if you have them available and unemployed.   Worst case they die a heroic death...give how efficient Aurora ships can be at missile defence and a fighter is basically a slow, slightly more robust missile I give them a snowballs chance in a blast furnace of surviving long in close quarters combat.  The NCN has lost their EW/SAR pinnaces fairly regularly when they get mixed up in combats.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: serger on November 30, 2017, 12:42:39 PM
Yep, fighter bonuses are just for own fighter, not for TF. I usually have 1 or 2 squadrons of interceptors with my best junior fighter officers as commanders. But those fast interceptors are big and expensive - I use them more as elite PD guards, not as fighters per se. In addition, good fighter officers tends to get their promotions quickly, so there is a little RP possibility* to set them at all fighters, while weak junior commanders just are not strong enough to bother.

(*) default ranking systems give no such possibility at all, since there are no junior officers there

I hope C# Aurora will have more sane bonus mechanics.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: serger on November 30, 2017, 01:03:09 PM
UPD.
In my last campaign I tried to set "realistic"* promotions off, add junior ranks down to Pilot Officer, build large fighter wings and train a mob of fighter pilots, holding them without promotions. Even for me there was too much micromanagement with a miserable battle effect.

(*) I put this word at quotes, because there is a little realism, when you have 23y.o. captains, 24y.o. generals, 26y.o. Admiral of the Fleet... and 21y.o. senior sectoral administrators, after all.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: TCD on December 01, 2017, 01:27:17 PM
UPD.
In my last campaign I tried to set "realistic"* promotions off, add junior ranks down to Pilot Officer, build large fighter wings and train a mob of fighter pilots, holding them without promotions. Even for me there was too much micromanagement with a miserable battle effect.

(*) I put this word at quotes, because there is a little realism, when you have 23y.o. captains, 24y.o. generals, 26y.o. Admiral of the Fleet... and 21y.o. senior sectoral administrators, after all.
Top tip- right at the start of a new game do a "replace all" commanders. If you choose a reasonable number of generations then you get reasonably aged commanders.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: serger on December 01, 2017, 04:41:55 PM
Yep, I do exactly that. My words above was exactly about those commanders, that was born by "Replace All" (80y).
The problem is not with max age. The problem is with min age. Min ages in Aurora are not reasonably at all. It cannot be fixed by the player with "Replace All" button. More of that, starting ages are always 21 for all scientists and civilian administrators, so you can press this button 100500 times with 100500 parameter number - it will change nothing at all for them.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: vorpal+5 on December 02, 2017, 12:14:01 PM
How do you abort a Fleet Training exercise?
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: serger on December 02, 2017, 12:22:11 PM
The same button (Start Task Force Training / End Task Force Training).
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Dr. Toboggan on December 05, 2017, 04:37:52 PM
Is there a way to delete commercial (i.e., shipping lines) ships? The only way I've found is to create another empire, spawn a ship near them, and blow them all up.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Iranon on December 05, 2017, 05:14:11 PM
I believe you can still impound them by towing them (tractor beam).
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Dr. Toboggan on December 05, 2017, 05:24:30 PM
I believe you can still impound them by towing them (tractor beam).

How? I can't select civilian ships through the orders menu, so I don't know how I'd go about doing that.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: serger on December 05, 2017, 11:37:52 PM
Civilian harvesters are accessible through the orders menu. Other types are not.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: vorpal+5 on December 08, 2017, 12:12:39 AM
Once a missile is fired on a target, what do I need to maintain at all time? Active sensor, Fire control, both, only the first, the second?
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: El Pip on December 08, 2017, 01:47:47 AM
Once a missile is fired on a target, what do I need to maintain at all time? Active sensor, Fire control, both, only the first, the second?
Just active sensors.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: vorpal+5 on December 08, 2017, 07:48:15 AM
ok, so a fighter wing can fire then get away asap, while the target remains painted by an AS from another ship. Good to know, I was not too sure.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: MarcAFK on February 02, 2018, 07:31:08 PM
If the missile has sensors you don't even need the target to still be detected. Though good luck scoring a hit when your target is invisible if your missiles are practically blind
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: waresky on February 03, 2018, 01:32:46 PM
One I've done more than once...

"Fire the Mark IV's!"

"Tactical says they've not been loaded yet. All we have are the Mark I's"

Well... there goes that speed/range advantage...

ROTLF  ;D

From a 1980 Sci-Fi novel..."In case of Fire..Breack the glass"...umm..."Sir..we got a problem"
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Resident Evil on March 14, 2019, 12:31:39 PM
Ok, here's my dumb mistake :)

Selecting multiples of 10 in the design screen for one item, then forgetting to change it when you add another item. This is how I ended up with a PDC with 10 identical active search sensors  ::)

Code: [Select]
Alborix I class Missile Point Defence Base    25,000 tons     455 Crew     8971 BP      TCS 500  TH 0  EM 0
Armour 19-76     Sensors 1/364     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 20
Intended Deployment Time: 600 months    Spare Berths 12   
Troop Capacity: 1 Battalion    Magazine 2020   

Daly-Page S1-R5 Launcher (5s/r6/100%) (20)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
Hardy & Sims Missile FC FC35-R1 MCR3.8 (a28/e14/50%) (5)     Range 35.3m km    Resolution 1
AHI Amnixiel IIs S1W1 (32/60/132) (1010)  Speed: 60,000 km/s   End: 8.9m    Range: 32m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 440/264/132
AHI Aciel IIs S1W1 (5.6/60/204) (1010)  Speed: 60,000 km/s   End: 1.5m    Range: 5.6m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 680/408/204

Hardy & Sims Active SS MR50-R1 (a28/e14/50%) (10)     GPS 364     Range 51.0m km    MCR 5.5m km    Resolution 1

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s


This design is classed as a Planetary Defence Centre and can be pre-fabricated in 10 sections

Fortunately I only built 1 before I noticed.
Title: Re: Dumb newbie mistakes to avoid
Post by: Panopticon on March 15, 2019, 05:33:57 AM
Now that's building for redundancy.