Author Topic: Waypoints and missile swarms  (Read 3655 times)

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Offline ExChairman (OP)

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Waypoints and missile swarms
« on: June 17, 2015, 02:38:59 PM »
If I send my missiles to a waypoint and a enemy formation moves into its sensor detection range, will they attack randomly or as one group against one ship and all of the missiles expended at that ship?
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Offline GreatTuna

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Re: Waypoints and missile swarms
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2015, 03:13:49 PM »
From what I learned from using mines, different salvos pick different targets, but missiles in the same salvo pick only one target.
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: Waypoints and missile swarms
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2015, 04:05:22 PM »
And it sucks when your entire minefield fires off at once.

Offline ExChairman (OP)

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Re: Waypoints and missile swarms
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2015, 10:52:15 PM »
Ahh,ok... :-[
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Offline MarcAFK

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Re: Waypoints and missile swarms
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2015, 11:58:10 PM »
And it sucks when your entire minefield fires off at once.
Slightly mitigated if you have good active sensors on the payload.   
.... Unless they're triggered by a single scout ship :s
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Offline AL

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Re: Waypoints and missile swarms
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2015, 01:27:55 AM »
You could try making a bunch of mines with different sensor/separation ranges, but I guess that would probably take a fair bit of micromanagement to get working properly
 

Offline alex_brunius

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Re: Waypoints and missile swarms
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2015, 04:20:22 AM »
You could try making a bunch of mines with different sensor/separation ranges, but I guess that would probably take a fair bit of micromanagement to get working properly

Seems more simple to use a single standard mine with same sensor, but just make sure the mines are placed further apart so only as many sensors overlap as you want missiles on a target at once.

And you can then stretch out the minefield into predictable/likely paths like towards other jump points, survey locations or system center.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2015, 04:28:08 AM by alex_brunius »
 

Offline MarcAFK

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Re: Waypoints and missile swarms
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2015, 07:00:56 AM »
Someone worked out how to use standard orders to make a Fibonacci spiral of mines nicely spaced out without any significant micromanagement. I could probably find that post somewhere.
" Why is this godforsaken hellhole worth dying for? "
". . .  We know nothing about them, their language, their history or what they look like.  But we can assume this.  They stand for everything we don't stand for.  Also they told me you guys look like dorks. "
"Stop exploding, you cowards.  "
 

Offline Vandermeer

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Re: Waypoints and missile swarms
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2015, 07:30:56 AM »
Yes please.

My current work with mines is actually my first game with it, and I don't have an easy to use method yet. Currently I set 25 waypoints around the guarded object by hand, and then have to delete them and issue orders too. Very time consuming if you have to do it 3 times per shipload. (looks nice though):
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Offline linkxsc

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Re: Waypoints and missile swarms
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2015, 01:19:06 PM »
Would be nice if there were a command to "set x waypoints around target destination [could be jump point, could be waypoint, could be enemy fleets current position] with a radius of y. And a decay rate of z"

So you click your jump point, tell it to set 12 waypoints at 100kkm, for 10 minutes. Order your ships around to do drops, and then fly away, after a few more time increments they disappear automatically.

Other situations where this could help, is if your minefield triggers, so you know there are targets about. Set up 1 pf say 24 points at a range (known enemy ships speez, your missile speed. Do a little figuring at about where your missiles could intersect the target) set them to disappear after a minute (order aknowledgement and firing). Fire off a few salvos, spreading out infront of where you think the target will be. Ignore the other waypoints generated, cause theyre kinda useless.

 

Offline MarcAFK

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Re: Waypoints and missile swarms
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2015, 01:20:38 AM »
I'm thinking that using the distance and bearing setting you could send minelayers out in a pattern, perhaps even autofiring by using launchers of reduced size, set the ships speed so that by the time they have reloaded they're at the right distance for the next mine.
I'm not very well versed in the use of formations, but I have one idea.
Create 6 mine layers, send them to the jump point you want protected along with one other ship you can use as the protected threat axis task group. Set a waypoint at the jump point.
Split the minelayers up into 6 groups, then give each one a 60 degree offset, so 60 clockwise, 120 clockwise, 180 clockwise, 60 counter clockwise, 120 counterclockwise, and no offset, , or 5 degrees if no offset doesn't send the ship off to the right distance.
Set them to a long distance, say 2 million kilometres. The ships will go off towards that position.
Now you want the first stage of your mines to have a short range, let's say it's 100,000 kilometres, Assume we have size 10 mines and the launcher has a reload of 300 seconds. We design the mines to have an active sensor capable of picking up the intended target at 50,000 kilometres.
What we want is to drop one salvo of mines every 100,000 kilometres, so we set the mine layers speed to 333 km/s so that in the 300 seconds it takes the launcher to reload the ship has travelled that far..
We wait until the ships are 100,000 km from the waypoint, then order them to fire and allow autoturns until they have reached the end of the formation, what we should see is 6 rays of mines spaced 100,000 apart, 20 points deep. Of course this isn't exactly the most efficient pattern, as we get further from the jump point the field is less dense, instead what we could do is leave all the ships at a 100,000 offset from protected task group, then send that taskgroup around a circle of waypoints around the jump point, send that ship at 333 km,s too.
The pattern that should develop will be more interesting, I'll test this later. BTW I think I found the post I was looking for, the images are broken and it doesn't seem to use formations like I thought it did and hence is about as micromanagey as what I came up with.
That took a while.

I first set up 14 waypoints in a semi circular fashion, and had my ships move between each waypoint at a speed of 10 km/s. Then from the individual unit screen I had both minelayers fire on the waypoint at the jump point. So that was reasonably easy to set up, but every 3 hours the simulation stopped. I forced 30x 3 hour turns a couple of times to get the pattern you see.

TLDR: I think the simplest way of doing a dense minefield would be setting only 3 minelayers 120 degrees and a certain distance apart from a central ship, send that ship in a rough spiral of waypoints around the jump point, then use autofire to dump the mines towards the jumppoint.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 01:29:40 AM by MarcAFK »
" Why is this godforsaken hellhole worth dying for? "
". . .  We know nothing about them, their language, their history or what they look like.  But we can assume this.  They stand for everything we don't stand for.  Also they told me you guys look like dorks. "
"Stop exploding, you cowards.  "
 

Offline Paul M

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Re: Waypoints and missile swarms
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2015, 01:52:34 AM »
What I did was set up a bunch of way points and then just gave the orders to move to waypoint, lauch at it, etc etc

The slow part was setting up the waypoints but with a bit of geometry it isn't that hard once the mines were first placed as you can use intersection points to define where you set the next way point and so on.

I will try and take a picture of the minefield in Sol at the JP to Wolf 359 tonight and post it up.  But using the intersections of the range circles helped speed up the process a lot.  And minelayers are certainly one of the few ships that can definitely benifit from a reduced size launcher.

« Last Edit: June 20, 2015, 01:16:29 AM by Paul M »
 

Offline NihilRex

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Re: Waypoints and missile swarms
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2015, 02:23:00 AM »
1) Make missile-bus mine with ~1m\s speed (lower is better).
2) Move to origin point for field(s).
3) Set waypoints at common destination or destinations. (farther is better)
4) Set order to fire missile at waypoint from center of field.
5) Set wait order equal to cycle time.
6) Repeat 4&5 for each waypoint you want covered by field.
7) Set repeat counter to quantity sufficient to empty minelayer magazine, then hit repeat.

8a)(optional)Add commands to go refill magazine and return to launch point.
8b)(optional)Click cycle orders.

9) Once you've launched all the mine-busses, deleted the extra waypoints, so they don't dump the payload on arrival, unless you want that.

EDIT - I know this doesnt make the swarm like you want, but it does make a drifting minefield that can clog up a travel lane pretty nicely.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 02:24:37 AM by NihilRex »
 

Offline linkxsc

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Re: Waypoints and missile swarms
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2015, 12:58:24 PM »
Looking at Marc's suggeston. I feel it probably does have some merit, and Im gonna test around with it later.

 

Offline Vandermeer

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Re: Waypoints and missile swarms
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2015, 06:16:27 AM »
Yupp, Marcs suggestion seems like it could work fine. You could essentially make a minefield-printer fleet that disperses on object and then spawns one or a couple salvos of the mines in that predefined pattern. Slight disadvantage is though that you need one minelayer ship per mined spot for this, but it can be done.
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