Author Topic: Missile Cruiser  (Read 6813 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Atlantia (OP)

  • Sub-Lieutenant
  • ******
  • Posts: 110
  • This is a wug.
Missile Cruiser
« on: October 28, 2011, 02:38:28 PM »
Welp, I've played about a dozen games, but never have I gotten to the point where I needed a military ship before. (Either I died of loneliness, was invaded from a neighbouring system by some race that was a million times more advanced than me, or I gave up out of general dissatisfaction with the current state of affairs.) Anyways, here's my first independent design for a Missile Cruiser. (I had little idea what I was doing other than that I needed to try to match MFC to missile range.)

Code: [Select]
Viking class Missile Cruiser    6,150 tons     838 Crew     1263.8 BP      TCS 123  TH 600  EM 60
4878 km/s     Armour 1-29     Shields 2-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 20     PPV 44
Maint Life 14.48 Years     MSP 1284    AFR 30%    IFR 0.4%    1YR 11    5YR 172    Max Repair 84 MSP
Magazine 218   

Internal Confinement Fusion Drive E5M (6)    Power 100    Fuel Use 50%    Signature 100    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 87.8 billion km   (208 days at full power)
Delta R300/12.5 Shields (1)   Total Fuel Cost  13 Litres per day

ASM Missile Launcher Mk I (8)    Missile Size 5    Rate of Fire 30
AMM Missile Launcher Mk I (4)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
MFC AM FC13-R1 (1)     Range 13.9m km    Resolution 1
MFC SR FC39-R8 (1)     Range 39.2m km    Resolution 8
MFC LR FC107-R60 (1)     Range 107.3m km    Resolution 60
1-Mosquito-Mk I (23)  Speed: 32,000 km/s   End: 7.8m    Range: 15m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 405 / 243 / 121
5-Firestalker Mk I (22)  Speed: 32,000 km/s   End: 46.9m    Range: 90m km   WH: 6    Size: 5    TH: 192 / 115 / 57
5-Neutraliser Mk I (17)  Speed: 24,000 km/s   End: 20.8m    Range: 30m km   WH: 12    Size: 5    TH: 208 / 124 / 62

Active Search Sensor MR9-R1 (1)     GPS 84     Range 9.2m km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor MR92-R100 (1)     GPS 8400     Range 92.4m km    Resolution 100


Suggestions?
Now there are two of them.   There are two ______.
 

Offline scoopdjm

  • Warrant Officer, Class 2
  • ****
  • s
  • Posts: 69
Re: Missile Cruiser
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2011, 02:45:55 PM »
Thats real nice son but don't feel afraid to add some more tonnage it to it (as much as to reduce the speed to 3000km) I mean that is a very light cruiser, hell, my deisgnated mk.II missile/battleship support cruiser weighs 22,900 tons with 2 16-size launhers and 20 5-size box launchers (for those times when the surgical strike just aint cuttin' it) In anycase not to shabby

EDIT: also that's a really long maintence life man, I keep mine (for battle-line ships) at 10 years a pop
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 02:47:38 PM by scoopdjm »
 

Offline Andrew

  • Registered
  • Commodore
  • **********
  • Posts: 695
  • Thanked: 132 times
Re: Missile Cruiser
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2011, 03:13:04 PM »
Forget the shields 2 pts of shields is nothing.
Your armour is similar to damp tissue paper.
You have very small magazine capacity which will make your ship innefectual.
Recomendations
MUCH less maintenance this shop has far too much.
Split the fleet into 2 designs, one with the antimissiles and sensor and one with the Anti ship missiles. Improve magazine capacity and armour.
I would not bother with the R8 sensor and if I felt I must have it I would add a third design to the fleet.
8 ASM launchers are acceptable on a ship of this size and the missile desgings look ok, I personally buid my AMM;s with much shorter range as you won't detect missiles anywhere near that far out.
 

Offline Goron

  • Chief Petty Officer
  • ***
  • G
  • Posts: 37
Re: Missile Cruiser
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2011, 03:25:25 PM »
Your armour is similar to damp tissue paper.
Agree.
I'd drop the shields altogether and just up the armor if you are going for light protection. Armor has a MUCH better bang for the buck. And considering your magazine capacities, you will not be in long sustained combat/campaigns so the shield regen likely won't be worth the investment.
 

Offline Vynadan

  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • V
  • Posts: 255
Re: Missile Cruiser
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2011, 03:53:17 PM »
What exactly do you mean by independent design? I take it you plan on letting this ship operate alone or only with ships of its own class together? In the first case, I'd recommend you to supersize it - if you meet an enemy, it will most likely be an entire group of hostile ships and a single ship of this design will be overwhelmed. If you operate with multiple ships of this class, I'd recommend the same as the previous posters have: Splitting the ships into an offensive, a point defense and perhaps a sensor class could help you fulfill all roles with an even smaller tonnage.

Defenses:
One point of armour is very low - it's literally just the bare minimum not to fall apart in the vacuum of space. I'd up it a good five points or if it's indeed intended for self sufficient operation a good ten to fifteen points, depending on your tech level.
The shield with two levels is pretty much without effect. It literally absorbs two points of damage and then disappears. It couldn't even stop a single of your own ASMs - And the recharge would take 300 seconds, meaning one point of damage absorbed every 150 seconds. You could either leave out the shield or add some more to create an efficient barrier. With delta shield technology, I'd recommend the former.

Offenses:
I like your missile design with small and large payload designs of the same size. However, your magazine capacity is way too small (I doubt you could destroy even one alien ship with your ammo) and only four AMM tubes won't protect the ship for long. My suggestion would be to outsource the AMMs into a different design and (at least) double the magazine space, if not triple.
Furthermore, your AMM range seems pretty high - almost double the range of your R1 sensor. Similiarly, the speed looks rather low (as fast as your ASM). I don't know the hit chances of your missile design, but I'd like to voice doubt about your AMM design.
The R8 MFC isn't of much use, I think - you don't have a dedicated R8 sensor and so wouldn't have much of an advantage over the R60 MFC.

Support:
The mainteance capacity is beast. I often read people suggesting a maintenance life of 1-2 years, though I personally like to go for 3-5.  I'd say 14-15 is way too much, especially considering the low magazine and fuel stockpiles. If you truly want this to operate alone, you won't need more maintenance life than you have fuel and your magazines will run dry after the first contact, I'm certain.
Also note how your design has no passive sensors. Unless you want it to be always-actives, you should add at least small thermal and/or EM sensors.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 03:56:59 PM by Vynadan »
 

Offline Atlantia (OP)

  • Sub-Lieutenant
  • ******
  • Posts: 110
  • This is a wug.
Re: Missile Cruiser
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2011, 04:00:20 PM »
Recomendations
MUCH less maintenance this shop has far too much.
Split the fleet into 2 designs, one with the antimissiles and sensor and one with the Anti ship missiles. Improve magazine capacity and armour.
I would not bother with the R8 sensor and if I felt I must have it I would add a third design to the fleet.
8 ASM launchers are acceptable on a ship of this size and the missile desgings look ok, I personally buid my AMM;s with much shorter range as you won't detect missiles anywhere near that far out.

Thanks for your advice! Let's see, I've got a couple questions...

You're right about AMM and missile detection. The M9-R1 I designed can detect Size 6 and smaller missiles at about 1mil k. So I guess I oughta design an AMM to fit in that range, huh?
Does this look absolutely crazy in terms of that? (I was going off the wiki's basic suggestions for AMMs, and that's what the first AMM I designed was)
Code: [Select]
Missile Size: 1 MSP  (0.05 HS)     Warhead: 1    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 41
Speed: 32800 km/s    Endurance: 1 minutes   Range: 1.8m km
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 1344.8%   3k km/s 410%   5k km/s 269%   10k km/s 134.5%

And about splitting, do you propose that that AMM ship also serve as the eyes for the ASM ship?



What exactly do you mean by independent design?

Heh, I meant 'of my own creation' rather than something taken as an example from the Wiki. Thanks for your advice!

New designs coming soon once I have a better magazine and passive sensors designed.
Now there are two of them.   There are two ______.
 

Offline Vynadan

  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • V
  • Posts: 255
Re: Missile Cruiser
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2011, 04:11:03 PM »
When it comes to missiles, I just design them by what my guts tell me.

Some extra range above the sensor coverage isn't too bad, both you and your enemy will be moving around anyway, so distances are relative.
With that design, it looks like you put the free fuel MSP into almost exclusivly agility? I always notice that at a certain amount of agility, further MSP fractions don't bring as much as the same addition to the engine power or even reduce the to-hit percentage. I always play around with those two ...
 

Offline Atlantia (OP)

  • Sub-Lieutenant
  • ******
  • Posts: 110
  • This is a wug.
Re: Missile Cruiser
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2011, 04:51:11 PM »
All righty, I'm waiting another year on the next level of armour, and here's my new AMM design. I shifted everything from fuel into engine instead of agility, so now it's a bit faster, and its range is just beyond the that of its MFC.

Code: [Select]
Missile Size: 1 MSP  (0.05 HS)     Warhead: 1    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 34
Speed: 39800 km/s    Endurance: 0 minutes   Range: 1.1m km
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 1353.2%   3k km/s 442%   5k km/s 270.6%   10k km/s 135.3%

What's the largest missile that can be destroyed by a 1-strength warhead? Was it just below 50 or something? The major threat to me, as evidenced by previous games, is some almost-if-not-Precursor-strength enemy, who's always 2 or 3 systems away from Sol... Grr...


Here's my AMM Cruiser (and the missile will be replaced with the above design, of course)

Code: [Select]
Baranda-A class Missile Cruiser    4,100 tons     298 Crew     800.2 BP      TCS 82  TH 300  EM 0
3658 km/s     Armour 10-22     Shields 0-0     Sensors 22/22/0/0     Damage Control Rating 5     PPV 8
Maint Life 10.7 Years     MSP 610    AFR 26%    IFR 0.4%    1YR 10    5YR 146    Max Repair 84 MSP
Magazine 308   

Internal Confinement Fusion Drive E5M (3)    Power 100    Fuel Use 50%    Signature 100    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres    Range 87.8 billion km   (277 days at full power)

AMM Missile Launcher Mk I (8)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
MFC AM FC13-R1 (1)     Range 13.9m km    Resolution 1
1-Mosquito-Mk I (300)  Speed: 32,000 km/s   End: 7.8m    Range: 15m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 405 / 243 / 121

Active Search Sensor MR9-R1 (1)     GPS 84     Range 9.2m km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH2-22 (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  22m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-22 (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  22m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
Now there are two of them.   There are two ______.
 

Offline Jacob/Lee

  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • Posts: 203
  • Thanked: 1 times
  • (Where I got this .gif beats me!)
Re: Missile Cruiser
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2011, 04:55:42 PM »
That magazine is pitiful. You can possibly meet some enemy ships that can literally pump out thousands of AMMs before going dry, add more magazines.
 

Offline Vynadan

  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • V
  • Posts: 255
Re: Missile Cruiser
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2011, 05:40:29 PM »
For a 4kt vessel I think it looks pretty adequate (in my books).
It features quite sturdy armour and missile tubes according to its missile stock. You'll have to field several of these due to their low size, but with 4kt and 800 BP it looks like a managable effort to me. It's capable of firing 38 volleys of its AMM - Not something for two armadas meeting, but with other ships of its class it should be decent flotilla PD.

I'd add a second MFC, otherwise you'll be unable to target two targets at once (say, two volleys from two ships fired simultanously at you), or have a delay if you don't want to fire all eight tubes at once.

It has a full sensor suit now - capable of operating in passive mode and each ship of its class will be able to detect its own targets. Opinions are split on this: You could save some tonnage here by making a dedicated sensor ship, or you could leave it as it is and always have backup sensors so you're not blinded if your sensor ship(s) blow up.
 

Offline Atlantia (OP)

  • Sub-Lieutenant
  • ******
  • Posts: 110
  • This is a wug.
Re: Missile Cruiser
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2011, 06:06:16 PM »
Here we go, I've revised the designs!

AMM Cruiser:

Code: [Select]
Baranda-A class Missile Cruiser    5,050 tons     328 Crew     961.72 BP      TCS 101  TH 300  EM 0
2970 km/s     Armour 10-26     Shields 0-0     Sensors 22/22/0/0     Damage Control Rating 5     PPV 8
Maint Life 8.24 Years     MSP 595    AFR 40%    IFR 0.6%    1YR 16    5YR 234    Max Repair 84 MSP
Magazine 519   

Internal Confinement Fusion Drive E5M (3)    Power 100    Fuel Use 50%    Signature 100    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 100,000 Litres    Range 71.3 billion km   (277 days at full power)

AMM Missile Launcher Mk I (8)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 10
MFC AM FC13-R1 (2)     Range 13.9m km    Resolution 1
1-Mosquito Mk III (519)  Speed: 39,800 km/s   End: 0.4m    Range: 1.1m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 451 / 270 / 135

Active Search Sensor MR9-R1 (1)     GPS 84     Range 9.2m km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH2-22 (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  22m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-22 (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  22m km

ASM Cruiser:

Code: [Select]
Viking-A class Missile Cruiser    8,150 tons     775 Crew     1516.72 BP      TCS 163  TH 500  EM 0
3067 km/s     Armour 10-36     Shields 0-0     Sensors 22/22/0/0     Damage Control Rating 19     PPV 40
Maint Life 9.27 Years     MSP 1047    AFR 59%    IFR 0.8%    1YR 22    5YR 329    Max Repair 84 MSP
Magazine 551   

Internal Confinement Fusion Drive E5M (5)    Power 100    Fuel Use 50%    Signature 100    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 66.2 billion km   (250 days at full power)

ASM Missile Launcher Mk I (8)    Missile Size 5    Rate of Fire 30
MFC LR FC107-R60 (2)     Range 107.3m km    Resolution 60
5-Firestalker Mk I (47)  Speed: 32,000 km/s   End: 46.9m    Range: 90m km   WH: 6    Size: 5    TH: 192 / 115 / 57
5-Neutraliser Mk I (63)  Speed: 24,000 km/s   End: 20.8m    Range: 30m km   WH: 12    Size: 5    TH: 208 / 124 / 62

Active Search Sensor MR92-R100 (1)     GPS 8400     Range 92.4m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH2-22 (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  22m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-22 (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  22m km
Now there are two of them.   There are two ______.
 

Offline scoopdjm

  • Warrant Officer, Class 2
  • ****
  • s
  • Posts: 69
Re: Missile Cruiser
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2011, 08:31:33 PM »
sorry to ask this, but it is a wicked pet peeve of mine :( do you use marks in your naming system? like you know anagor mk.II / anagor mk.IIA?

in anycase considering both of those ships is based off the same initial design you should (I think) have their names correspond.
 

Offline Atlantia (OP)

  • Sub-Lieutenant
  • ******
  • Posts: 110
  • This is a wug.
Re: Missile Cruiser
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2011, 09:23:02 PM »
sorry to ask this, but it is a wicked pet peeve of mine :( do you use marks in your naming system? like you know anagor mk.II / anagor mk.IIA?

in anycase considering both of those ships is based off the same initial design you should (I think) have their names correspond.

I only use marks for things with the same base whose characteristics aren't easily distinguished from each other. The sensors don't need it, but missiles and launchers do.

But I keep ship names similar across the same function of classes. So the next ASM ship I have will be Viking-B. I actually built the AMM ship from the ground up, and to me it wouldn't make sense to use the same base name for ships with two different functions.


In any case, what do people think of those two designs of mine?
Now there are two of them.   There are two ______.
 

Offline scoopdjm

  • Warrant Officer, Class 2
  • ****
  • s
  • Posts: 69
Re: Missile Cruiser
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2011, 09:24:42 PM »
1. ok

2.. I like you designs, but your asm missiles could be a bit bigger size-5 is what I use on my fighters lol

EDIT: not, of course, that your doing anything wrong but you could back a bigger punch for a little more room required
 

Offline Atlantia (OP)

  • Sub-Lieutenant
  • ******
  • Posts: 110
  • This is a wug.
Re: Missile Cruiser
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2011, 09:26:32 PM »
Humm... Interesting. I'll test out this series and then probably go bigger based on experience! Thanks for the advice!
Now there are two of them.   There are two ______.