Quasar4x - An Aurora4x VB6 clone q4x

[amram]

Wow amazing work Kyle!

Hope you put a focus on civilian industry when you start on the AI, to me that is the only thing missing before i'm ready for a complete peaceful play-trough.

Last I heard, there was potential that the civvies would be scriptable AI elements.  If so, he need only provide the AI scripting tools he already plans, and any one of us can refine and improve upon the civvy behaviour.

[sloanjh]

Yeah, in general Aurora isn't a game made with a balanced meta in mind. I'd prefer allowing in-flight retargeting since it makes more sense, gives more RP potential and means you don't have to micro individual salvos as much for fear of waste. Abusing it for mega-strikes will just be one more entry in the already large list of house rules for fair play.

The effect was pretty severe, and if I recall correctly there wasn't a bright "exploit" line.  I think Kurt has some old campaign write-ups that show the technique; if you look at the discussion from that time period I have a vague recollection that there was a lot of debate about what to do.

John

[Steve Walmsley]

Yeah, in general Aurora isn't a game made with a balanced meta in mind. I'd prefer allowing in-flight retargeting since it makes more sense, gives more RP potential and means you don't have to micro individual salvos as much for fear of waste. Abusing it for mega-strikes will just be one more entry in the already large list of house rules for fair play.

The effect was pretty severe, and if I recall correctly there wasn't a bright "exploit" line.  I think Kurt has some old campaign write-ups that show the technique; if you look at the discussion from that time period I have a vague recollection that there was a lot of debate about what to do.

John

I used that technique to destroy Earth in the Trans-Newtonian campaign

Stacked all the missiles at a way point, then unleashed a massive missile wave. Of course, the Chinese suffered the most but it didn't work out very well for anyone else either.

[Kyle (OP)]

Yeah, in general Aurora isn't a game made with a balanced meta in mind. I'd prefer allowing in-flight retargeting since it makes more sense, gives more RP potential and means you don't have to micro individual salvos as much for fear of waste. Abusing it for mega-strikes will just be one more entry in the already large list of house rules for fair play.

The effect was pretty severe, and if I recall correctly there wasn't a bright "exploit" line.  I think Kurt has some old campaign write-ups that show the technique; if you look at the discussion from that time period I have a vague recollection that there was a lot of debate about what to do.

John

I used that technique to destroy Earth in the Trans-Newtonian campaign

Stacked all the missiles at a way point, then unleashed a massive missile wave. Of course, the Chinese suffered the most but it didn't work out very well for anyone else either.

Which can of course be done in Aurora 7.1 today, no in-flight re-targeting necessary. 

[Kyle (OP)]

Progress update 2020-02-26:

Shipboarding is done! 




An example round of on-board combat:




And capture!




Version 91 is up.  Additions include
- initial readiness hit based on ship speeds
- units tunnel through weakest spot in armor
- on board combat every 5 mins
- double strength bonus on marines
- collateral damage to ship systems
- crew casualties
- chance to surrender after defending forces are eliminated, based on crew size versus attacking force strength and species resistance to surrender (or 100% surrender if crew eliminated)
- espionage points gained from surviving crew, ship commander, and any officers hitching a ride (but the points have no effect yet)
- 80% penalty on points gained if no comm ability between races

I can now scratch Shipboarding off my list, but now I have to add Espionage mechanics to it

[Tchey]

Really nice to see all these updates coming along nicely.

[sloanjh]

Yeah, in general Aurora isn't a game made with a balanced meta in mind. I'd prefer allowing in-flight retargeting since it makes more sense, gives more RP potential and means you don't have to micro individual salvos as much for fear of waste. Abusing it for mega-strikes will just be one more entry in the already large list of house rules for fair play.

The effect was pretty severe, and if I recall correctly there wasn't a bright "exploit" line.  I think Kurt has some old campaign write-ups that show the technique; if you look at the discussion from that time period I have a vague recollection that there was a lot of debate about what to do.

John

I used that technique to destroy Earth in the Trans-Newtonian campaign

Stacked all the missiles at a way point, then unleashed a massive missile wave. Of course, the Chinese suffered the most but it didn't work out very well for anyone else either.

Which can of course be done in Aurora 7.1 today, no in-flight re-targeting necessary.

@Steve: Thanks - it was the waypoint part that I couldn't quite remember.
@Kyle: I think it (retargeting) is necessary.  In detail, the technique is as follows:

1)  Create a waypoint.
2)  Fire successive waves of missiles at it, without an "after reaching the waypoint go to this target" target.  When the missiles get to the waypoint, they'll simply stop and hover without burning fuel/range.
3)  After you've got your massive wave built up at the waypoint, then you retarget all the missiles to the ship you want to kill.  If you don't have retargeting, then this step can't be performed.

Note that I have a vague recollection that there's a secondary trick where once your missiles have blown up the first ship the leftovers can attack other ships by retargeting, but that would easily be solved by allocating all missile attacks before any are resolved - the entire wave would expend itself of the first ship.

John

[Kyle (OP)]

Yeah, in general Aurora isn't a game made with a balanced meta in mind. I'd prefer allowing in-flight retargeting since it makes more sense, gives more RP potential and means you don't have to micro individual salvos as much for fear of waste. Abusing it for mega-strikes will just be one more entry in the already large list of house rules for fair play.

The effect was pretty severe, and if I recall correctly there wasn't a bright "exploit" line.  I think Kurt has some old campaign write-ups that show the technique; if you look at the discussion from that time period I have a vague recollection that there was a lot of debate about what to do.

John

I used that technique to destroy Earth in the Trans-Newtonian campaign

Stacked all the missiles at a way point, then unleashed a massive missile wave. Of course, the Chinese suffered the most but it didn't work out very well for anyone else either.

Which can of course be done in Aurora 7.1 today, no in-flight re-targeting necessary.

@Steve: Thanks - it was the waypoint part that I couldn't quite remember.
@Kyle: I think it (retargeting) is necessary.  In detail, the technique is as follows:

1)  Create a waypoint.
2)  Fire successive waves of missiles at it, without an "after reaching the waypoint go to this target" target.  When the missiles get to the waypoint, they'll simply stop and hover without burning fuel/range.
3)  After you've got your massive wave built up at the waypoint, then you retarget all the missiles to the ship you want to kill.  If you don't have retargeting, then this step can't be performed.

Note that I have a vague recollection that there's a secondary trick where once your missiles have blown up the first ship the leftovers can attack other ships by retargeting, but that would easily be solved by allocating all missile attacks before any are resolved - the entire wave would expend itself of the first ship.

John

(3) can be performed by deleting the waypoint.

[Steve Walmsley]

Yeah, in general Aurora isn't a game made with a balanced meta in mind. I'd prefer allowing in-flight retargeting since it makes more sense, gives more RP potential and means you don't have to micro individual salvos as much for fear of waste. Abusing it for mega-strikes will just be one more entry in the already large list of house rules for fair play.

The effect was pretty severe, and if I recall correctly there wasn't a bright "exploit" line.  I think Kurt has some old campaign write-ups that show the technique; if you look at the discussion from that time period I have a vague recollection that there was a lot of debate about what to do.

John

I used that technique to destroy Earth in the Trans-Newtonian campaign

Stacked all the missiles at a way point, then unleashed a massive missile wave. Of course, the Chinese suffered the most but it didn't work out very well for anyone else either.

Which can of course be done in Aurora 7.1 today, no in-flight re-targeting necessary.

@Steve: Thanks - it was the waypoint part that I couldn't quite remember.
@Kyle: I think it (retargeting) is necessary.  In detail, the technique is as follows:

1)  Create a waypoint.
2)  Fire successive waves of missiles at it, without an "after reaching the waypoint go to this target" target.  When the missiles get to the waypoint, they'll simply stop and hover without burning fuel/range.
3)  After you've got your massive wave built up at the waypoint, then you retarget all the missiles to the ship you want to kill.  If you don't have retargeting, then this step can't be performed.

Note that I have a vague recollection that there's a secondary trick where once your missiles have blown up the first ship the leftovers can attack other ships by retargeting, but that would easily be solved by allocating all missile attacks before any are resolved - the entire wave would expend itself of the first ship.

John

(3) can be performed by deleting the waypoint.

At that point, the missiles will go to their on-board targeting in v7.1 (that is true for any target that disappears, not just way point targets). In much earlier versions, you could re-target them using their original shipboard fire control.

[Kyle (OP)]

Yeah, in general Aurora isn't a game made with a balanced meta in mind. I'd prefer allowing in-flight retargeting since it makes more sense, gives more RP potential and means you don't have to micro individual salvos as much for fear of waste. Abusing it for mega-strikes will just be one more entry in the already large list of house rules for fair play.

The effect was pretty severe, and if I recall correctly there wasn't a bright "exploit" line.  I think Kurt has some old campaign write-ups that show the technique; if you look at the discussion from that time period I have a vague recollection that there was a lot of debate about what to do.

John

I used that technique to destroy Earth in the Trans-Newtonian campaign

Stacked all the missiles at a way point, then unleashed a massive missile wave. Of course, the Chinese suffered the most but it didn't work out very well for anyone else either.

Which can of course be done in Aurora 7.1 today, no in-flight re-targeting necessary.

@Steve: Thanks - it was the waypoint part that I couldn't quite remember.
@Kyle: I think it (retargeting) is necessary.  In detail, the technique is as follows:

1)  Create a waypoint.
2)  Fire successive waves of missiles at it, without an "after reaching the waypoint go to this target" target.  When the missiles get to the waypoint, they'll simply stop and hover without burning fuel/range.
3)  After you've got your massive wave built up at the waypoint, then you retarget all the missiles to the ship you want to kill.  If you don't have retargeting, then this step can't be performed.

Note that I have a vague recollection that there's a secondary trick where once your missiles have blown up the first ship the leftovers can attack other ships by retargeting, but that would easily be solved by allocating all missile attacks before any are resolved - the entire wave would expend itself of the first ship.

John

(3) can be performed by deleting the waypoint.

At that point, the missiles will go to their on-board targeting in v7.1 (that is true for any target that disappears, not just way point targets). In much earlier versions, you could re-target them using their original shipboard fire control.

Just to be clear, Quasar's in-flight re-targeting picks a new target within the missile's sensor range automatically, no manual re-targeting is allowed.

[amram]

So really the only change is that you have the missiles make the decision to find a new target before hey reach the old location where they would have tried to do exactly that anyways, assuming it can find one when it does try.  That's what I assumed when I saw the post about it, didn't consider being outside sensor range, or not having a sensor at the time though.

You mentioned "within the missiles sensor range", so an onboard sensor is required, since no sensor means even a range of zero doesn't quality implying there can never be any retargeting at all if there is no sensor on the missile, just as 7.1 when no sensor is present.

Two ways I think this could play out for a missile strike if there are no targets within the missile's own sensor range at the moment its original target, yet before it reaches the old position or its endurance limit, whichever is first.  I'm guessing its B, but for clarity, I'll ask rather than assume.

A) If there is no other target detected by the missile when the current target dies, the missile simply terminate right then and there as it has no target.

or

B) It keeps looking while it flies to the old location, attacking the first thing it finds along the way, or shutting down only if it never finds anything when it gets there or runs out of endurance before it does?

or

C) Yep, a third option, something other than A or B happens?

In any event, I assume what the ship can see is irrelevant to whether or not the missile can see it with its own on board sensor,a nd if the missile can't see it, then no retargeting happens.

[Kyle (OP)]

So really the only change is that you have the missiles make the decision to find a new target before hey reach the old location where they would have tried to do exactly that anyways, assuming it can find one when it does try.  That's what I assumed when I saw the post about it, didn't consider being outside sensor range, or not having a sensor at the time though.

You mentioned "within the missiles sensor range", so an onboard sensor is required, since no sensor means even a range of zero doesn't quality implying there can never be any retargeting at all if there is no sensor on the missile, just as 7.1 when no sensor is present.

Two ways I think this could play out for a missile strike if there are no targets within the missile's own sensor range at the moment its original target, yet before it reaches the old position or its endurance limit, whichever is first.  I'm guessing its B, but for clarity, I'll ask rather than assume.

A) If there is no other target detected by the missile when the current target dies, the missile simply terminate right then and there as it has no target.

or

B) It keeps looking while it flies to the old location, attacking the first thing it finds along the way, or shutting down only if it never finds anything when it gets there or runs out of endurance before it does?

or

C) Yep, a third option, something other than A or B happens?

It keeps looking while it flies to the old location, attacking the first thing it finds along the way, stopping at the old location if it never found anything, and waiting there until a target comes into view or it runs out of endurance.  If it is a buoy, it will wait there even after endurance runs out, but will stop looking for targets to chase.

In any event, I assume what the ship can see is irrelevant to whether or not the missile can see it with its own on board sensor, and if the missile can't see it, then no retargeting happens.

Yep!

[sloanjh]

So really the only change is that you have the missiles make the decision to find a new target before hey reach the old location where they would have tried to do exactly that anyways, assuming it can find one when it does try.  That's what I assumed when I saw the post about it, didn't consider being outside sensor range, or not having a sensor at the time though.

You mentioned "within the missiles sensor range", so an onboard sensor is required, since no sensor means even a range of zero doesn't quality implying there can never be any retargeting at all if there is no sensor on the missile, just as 7.1 when no sensor is present.

Two ways I think this could play out for a missile strike if there are no targets within the missile's own sensor range at the moment its original target, yet before it reaches the old position or its endurance limit, whichever is first.  I'm guessing its B, but for clarity, I'll ask rather than assume.

A) If there is no other target detected by the missile when the current target dies, the missile simply terminate right then and there as it has no target.

or

B) It keeps looking while it flies to the old location, attacking the first thing it finds along the way, or shutting down only if it never finds anything when it gets there or runs out of endurance before it does?

or

C) Yep, a third option, something other than A or B happens?

It keeps looking while it flies to the old location, attacking the first thing it finds along the way, stopping at the old location if it never found anything, and waiting there until a target comes into view or it runs out of endurance.  If it is a buoy, it will wait there even after endurance runs out, but will stop looking for targets to chase.

In any event, I assume what the ship can see is irrelevant to whether or not the missile can see it with its own on board sensor, and if the missile can't see it, then no retargeting happens.

Yep!

Ah!  This sounds like essentially the same behavior as current Aurora (or at least the design intent of the Aurora behavior ).  What I (and I think Steve) was reacting to was that it sounded like manual re-targeting was allowed in Quasar - that is the feature that was removed from Aurora earlier for the reasons discussed.

John

[dalekix]

I've been trying to run this since I became aware of it, but the game always just stalls on startup, just showing the Godot logo.  I've already got VC 2019 installed, and I've tried repairing the installation, but that hasn't fixed anything.

Processor
Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-7130U CPU @ 2. 70GHz
Manufacturer
Intel
Speed
2. 7 GHz
Number of Cores
4
RAM
8. 0 GB
Video Card
Intel(R) HD Graphics 620
Manufacturer
Chipset
Intel(R) HD Graphics 620
Dedicated Memory
128 MB
Total Memory
5. 0 GB

[Remon_Kewl]

Yeah, it crashes for me as well.  Stuck on Godot Logo for a few seconds, then it closes.  I deleted the appdata Godot folder too, but nothing.