Author Topic: Wimps!  (Read 1732 times)

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Offline Theodidactus (OP)

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Wimps!
« on: August 08, 2012, 02:18:35 PM »
a series of questions pertaining to a gutless NPR (not that I have anything against aliens without internal organs)

I met these guys maybe 10 years ago, they were initially neutral, I think, but because of a few overly curious incursions near a trigger happy rebel colony, they got blown up. Now they hate me. There were a few skirmishes in a border system that clearly cemented my superiority...they have huge starfleets they are unwilling to commit to battle, and are perhaps 5 jumps away from systems I control. They have done geological surveys of my planets, and know full well that I've got lots of minerals.

If i jump into their system, my fleet will get shredded by jump point defenses. they make no attempt to leave their own system, so it looks like we have a mexican standoff.

In total, I've blown up perhaps 20 of their ships. How long would it take to mend relationships with these guys?


Also: can an NPR conduct a meaningful offensive campaign from 5-7 systems away, or is their AI not built for that?
My Theodidactus, now I see that you are excessively simple of mind and more gullible than most. The Crystal Sphere you seek cannot be found in nature, look about you...wander the whole cosmos, and you will find nothing but the clear sweet breezes of the great ethereal ocean enclosed not by any bound
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: Wimps!
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2012, 02:28:31 PM »
Assign a diplo team and stay peaceful with them until they like you again.

Offline Havear

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Re: Wimps!
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2012, 09:55:17 PM »
Mend relations? Bah. Just pour SBMHAWKs through a warp point. (At least that's what I call them. 1kton missile pods with command pods sprinkled in for sensor locks, loaded with box launchers, which are in turn loaded with mines. Pop in on an unsuspecting enemy, flush the tubes, watch the fireworks.)
 

Offline Shininglight

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Re: Wimps!
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2012, 10:38:18 PM »
Mend relations? Bah. Just pour SBMHAWKs through a warp point. (At least that's what I call them. 1kton missile pods with command pods sprinkled in for sensor locks, loaded with box launchers, which are in turn loaded with mines. Pop in on an unsuspecting enemy, flush the tubes, watch the fireworks.)

Thanks for giving me my new standard jp assault SOP.
Admiral Damien James Winter, Defender of the Proxima Gate.
 

Offline Theodidactus (OP)

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Re: Wimps!
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2012, 01:18:44 AM »
Assign a diplo team and stay peaceful with them until they like you again.


yeah, how long might that take? are we talking decades?
My Theodidactus, now I see that you are excessively simple of mind and more gullible than most. The Crystal Sphere you seek cannot be found in nature, look about you...wander the whole cosmos, and you will find nothing but the clear sweet breezes of the great ethereal ocean enclosed not by any bound
 

Offline Person012345

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Re: Wimps!
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2012, 09:58:57 AM »

yeah, how long might that take? are we talking decades?
It deends on a number of tings ie xenophobia, racial diplomacy (I guess) and the rating of the assigned diplo team. And of course, just how much they hate you. I'm not sure exactly the sums, but generally relations improve at the skill rating of the diplo team per year, minus their xenophobia rating. I'm not sure if/how racial diplomacy fits into it and so on (plus these things are modified by government type of course).
 

Offline Theodidactus (OP)

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Re: Wimps!
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2012, 10:12:41 AM »
so I guess what I should be asking is: has anyone ever shot down scores of enemy ships, left them alone, and eventually reached neutral or friendly relations with them?

My Theodidactus, now I see that you are excessively simple of mind and more gullible than most. The Crystal Sphere you seek cannot be found in nature, look about you...wander the whole cosmos, and you will find nothing but the clear sweet breezes of the great ethereal ocean enclosed not by any bound
 

Offline Hawkeye

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Re: Wimps!
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2012, 02:45:13 PM »
Well I haven´t but lets look at how long it might take to go positive.

Assuming your Diplo-Team is a crack one at a rating of 200 and the alien xenophobia is at a moderat 50.
This would increase your relationship with them by 150 per year.

Now, we don´t know how much they hate you, but every point of damage you inflicted on shields/armor of them lowers their relation with you by 1 and every point of internal damage by 2 (at least, that is how I understand the diplo rules).

If it took you an average of 30 warhead-5 missiles to blow up one of their ships and you took out 20 of them, your relaitions will now be in the -4000 range (assuming 100 points to shields/armor per ship).
To make good of that, your diplo-team would need 26.6 years to get you back to 0.

Of course, if their xenophbia is 100, that turns to 40 years.


Diplomacy Rules, posted by Steve some time back:

Code: [Select]
I have mentioned in passing in several threads that I have completely rewritten the diplomatic rules for v4.1, including their use by NPRs, but I haven't created an official thread with the new rules so here it is.

I have taken an entirely new approach to Diplomacy, basing it on the mechanics of Aurora rather than a set of abstract treaty states with no significant in-game effects. The first major change is that there is no longer a single relationship between two Empires. Each Empire has its own opinion of each alien race and two Empires may have different opinions of each other. You can see your own Empire's view of other Empires but their view of you can only be determined by the diplomatic actions that they take. Their underlying opinion is not revealed. In addition, communication attempts take place for each race involved and a situation could result where Empire A can understand the language of Empire B but not vice versa. Sort of like when you go to Paris and the waiters can speak English but refuse to do so if you don't speak French. This has important implications for interrogating prisoners and for espionage.

The view of each Empire toward another is determined by the Political Modifier. This is a number which will change over time based on different events and situations. It will also affect the treaties that can be set up, either automatically by NPRs or manually by players. Empires will determine by themselves what treaties to grant to other Empires and each is handled on a unilateral basis. Thus Empire A can grant Trade Access (for example) to Empire B without that being reciprocated.

The Political Modifier is set initially for each side when first contact takes place. This is set to zero minus a random number between 1 and the Empire's Xenophobia (which is equal to the Xenophobia of the dominant species within that Empire plus any modifier for government type). So although the Political Modifier will start negative on both sides, it could be significantly different for each Empire. The Political Modifier you have for each alien Empire will change over time based on the criteria described below. Unless specifically listed as instant, all modifiers are added or deducted over the course of one year, with small increments being added/deducted during each 5-day increment.

Positive Modifiers
The rating of a diplomatic team assigned to you by the alien Empire will be added over the course of one year. So if the alien team rating was 120 then the political modifier you have for that Empire would increase by 120 every year with small increments being added during each 5-day increment. NPRs will create their own diplomatic teams to influence your perception of their Empire. An NPR's view of you will be influenced by the diplomatic team you assign to that NPR.
Instant changes ranging from 1 to 10 for positive communication efforts
Instant 10 for establishing communications
100 per year if the alien race has granted trade access
100 per year if the alien race is sharing geological survey data
100 per year if the alien race is sharing gravitational survey data
200 per year if the alien race is sharing research information
100 per year if the alien race views you as Friendly
200 per year if the alien race views you as Allied

Negative Modifiers
The Xenophobia of your Empire will be deducted over the course of one year. So if your Xenophobia was 50 then the political modifier for each alien race would decrease by 50 every year with small increments being deducted during each 5-day increment. If an NPR had a xenophobia of 60 then the political modifier for each known race, including the player race, would decrease by 60 every year
-100 per year if communication not established.
Instant deductions equal to any damage inflicted to your ships or PDCs by the alien race. This is doubled for any internal damage
Instant deductions equal to 200% of any planetary bombardment damage
During the 5-day increment, NPRs will deduct points for any alien ships they detect on active sensors in systems in which they have a population. The deduction is equal to 10% of contact size. So a 5000 ton ship (size 100) would cause an instant 10 point deduction. For the purposes of this rule, they will ignore freighters if a trade treaty is in effect and they will ignore ships from Empires they class as Friendly or Allied.

If an Empire is attacked, all treaties with the attacking race will be cancelled and if the the political modifier is greater than -150, it is reduced to that amount.

Treaties
The Political Modifier Level required for different treaties is as follows:

Neutral Military Status: -100
Friendly Military Status (Jump ships can escort the alien Empire's ships): 800
Allied Military Status: (Ships will defend the ally's ships against missile attack): 4000

Trade Access: 200
Share Geological Survey Data: 800
Share Gravitational Survey Data: 2400
Share Research Data:  6000

Treaties are one-way only so if an NPR grants you trade access you have access to the NPR populations but they will only have access to yours if you grant them trade access. The same applies to geo treaties, grav treaties, etc.. NPRs will automatically grant the various treaties when the political modifier reaches the appropriate level. Player races have the option of granting the treaty status for NPRs. While it might appear at first to be a good idea to let NPRs grant you acess and not return the favour, there are several advantages to granting various treaties,

If you grant trade access, NPRs will move trade goods within your Empire, between your Empire and the NPR populations and between your Empire and others with whom the NPR has a treaty. This can include moving infrastructure to your colonies that is produced by alien populations. You will gain export taxes for goods moved from your populations and you may get some free infrastructure. Granting grav or geo treaties has a couple of benefits. Primarily, it improves your relations, which can lead to the NPR declaring you friendly or allied, or even sharing its research knowledge. Secondly, if you don't want an NPR poking around in your systems, let them have the geo knowledge than they have no reason to send in survey ships. The research treaty is a easy way to get new knowledge to the a friendly/allied NPR so it can upgrade its ships and again will improve relations to the point where the NPR can reciprocate - if hasn't already done so.

To facilitate the changes, the existing Diplomacy window has been removed and a new tab has been added to the Tactical Intelligence window, which is now the Intelligence and Foreign Relations
Ralph Hoenig, Germany