Am I doing Gauss Point-Defence right?

[JacksonTaus (OP)]

Hi, this is my first real runthrough of the game.  I'm playing on relatively easy settings so I'm already at MFDs without having much in the way of shooting.  However now I've discovered hostile aliens who shoot first and ask questions never when they find my survey ships, so it's time to lay down the law.  However, my first few ships I built I discovered assorted flaws with (like not knowing about deployment time, missiles too slow, etc).  Can you guys take a look at my Escort Cruiser to see if I'm at least on the right track? My thinking here is lots of gauss in final-fire mode.  That can protect the whole fleet if we bunch up, right?

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Hera class Escort Cruiser    15,000 tons     347 Crew     4233.5 BP      TCS 300  TH 480  EM 120
6666 km/s     Armour 7-54     Shields 4-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 36     PPV 126.72
Maint Life 2.11 Years     MSP 2147    AFR 276%    IFR 3.8%    1YR 643    5YR 9652    Max Repair 500 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Spare Berths 1   

Massart-Mustin 500 EP Military MFD-B (4)    Power 500    Fuel Use 32%    Signature 120    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 1,310,000 Litres    Range 49.1 billion km   (85 days at full power)
Coltharp Technologies Theta R300/384 Shields (1)   Total Fuel Cost  16 Litres per hour  (384 per day)

Triple Catania Arms Gauss Cannon R4-67 Turret (9x12)    Range 40,000km     TS: 15000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 4    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Dirden Aero Gauss Fire Control S1.5 48-18750 (3)    Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 18750 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

I'm building a whole fleet at 15K tons because that's how big the jump-drive on the Command Cruiser is going to be.  Each jump drive has a squad size of 7 so I figure that means I can have 14 ships including two Command Cruisers, so that means probably 4 or 5 of these guys.  My most important question is if this is going to cover the whole fleet or if final fire only protects an individual ship?

[GreatTuna]

You know, having only -one- shield is kind of useless.
Aside from that, pretty good ship.

Yes, they will cover entire fleet in final fire mode.

[JacksonTaus (OP)]

You know, having only -one- shield is kind of useless.
Aside from that, pretty good ship.

Yes, they will cover entire fleet in final fire mode.

What's a good number to have? And what should I trade off for it? All of my ships have a similar design, I didn't realize stacking shields was possible or necessary.

Is my tracking speed high enough for my tech level? My own ASMs move at about 30k - am I better off dumping a turret and a fire control to get a higher tracking speed (25K would be my max)?

Here's a version with 25K tracking speed (best I can do with current tech), 8 turrets, 3 fire controls, and 5 shields.  The previous version I posted was actually an earlier design with slightly worse tech (and so bigger turrets), but it's still the same ship.

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Hera class Escort Cruiser    15,000 tons     335 Crew     4368.5 BP      TCS 300  TH 480  EM 600
6666 km/s     Armour 7-54     Shields 20-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 36     PPV 118.24
Maint Life 2.11 Years     MSP 2183    AFR 276%    IFR 3.8%    1YR 658    5YR 9864    Max Repair 500 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Spare Berths 1   

Massart-Mustin 500 EP Military MFD (4)    Power 500    Fuel Use 32%    Signature 120    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 1,500,000 Litres    Range 56.2 billion km   (97 days at full power)
Coltharp Defence Technologies Theta R300/384 Shields (5)   Total Fuel Cost  80 Litres per hour  (1,920 per day)

Triple Catania Arms Gauss Cannon R4-67 High-Speed Turret (8x12)    Range 40,000km     TS: 25000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 4    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Whitford Gauss Fire Control S02 48-25000 (3)    Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 25000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Should I be pairing this with an anti-missile ship, or is this fine on its own? I'd prefer to keep total designs down so I limit the shipyards I'll have to re-tool etc.  but I mean I already have missile tech for my missile cruiser.

[sneer]

new tracking speed - and matching the one of FC is much better
number of shields a bit too low to have impact
generally it looks ok now

[83athom]

As a general rule of thumb, you would want your shields to equal between 10%-15% of your ship's mass to be considered "worth while".

Should I be pairing this with an anti-missile ship, or is this fine on its own?

This design should never be on it's own. Here is why; First off, it doesn't have anything that can detect hostiles. You should think about adding at least a passive on this, as well as a resolution 1 active (to spot those missiles it is going to shoot down). Secondly, it doesn't have any anti-ship weaponry. Sure it can do some damage if it can get close, but most anti-ship ships you encounter will shred this before it gets in range. But no, you wouldn't need an anti-missile ship with this because this is an anti-missile ship.

[JacksonTaus (OP)]

As a general rule of thumb, you would want your shields to equal between 10%-15% of your ship's mass to be considered "worth while".   

So we're talking like 20-30 strength-4 shields? How much armor should I be pairing that with? Right now I have 7 armor and 5 str4 shields across the board.   What should I cut for that extra 1000 tons of shields?

This design should never be on it's own.   Here is why; First off, it doesn't have anything that can detect hostiles.   You should think about adding at least a passive on this, as well as a resolution 1 active (to spot those missiles it is going to shoot down).   Secondly, it doesn't have any anti-ship weaponry.   Sure it can do some damage if it can get close, but most anti-ship ships you encounter will shred this before it gets in range.   But no, you wouldn't need an anti-missile ship with this because this is an anti-missile ship. 

Right, I'm definitely not going to deploy it on its own, I just meant is Gauss sufficient for my fleet point defence or do I need to supplement this with an anti-missile-firing missile cruiser? To which the answer is apparently that this is sufficient?

OK, I've dropped a fuel tank to add a 9mkm R1 sensor that I use on my scout fighters.

In terms of fleet doctrine I can fit 7 in a jump squadron.  I figure that's one command cruiser (w/ jump drive), one light carrier, and then should I have 2 of these and 3 missile cruisers for offense, or 3 of these and 2 missile cruisers? Or 2 of these, 1 AMM cruiser, and 2 missile cruisers?

[83athom]

Here is something I made a while ago;

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Nelson class Frigate    29 550 tons     759 Crew     6181.3 BP      TCS 591  TH 2400  EM 4500
4060 km/s     Armour 6-85     Shields 150-300     Sensors 42/42/0/0     Damage Control Rating 150     PPV 81.8
Maint Life 8.5 Years     MSP 8537    AFR 139%    IFR 1.9%    1YR 211    5YR 3164    Max Repair 600 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Flight Crew Berths 0   
Hangar Deck Capacity 2000 tons     Magazine 485   

1200 EP Magneto-plasma Drive (2)    Power 1200    Fuel Use 82.67%    Signature 1200    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 5 000 000 Litres    Range 36.8 billion km   (105 days at full power)
Epsilon R300/504 Shields (50)   Total Fuel Cost  1 050 Litres per hour  (25 200 per day)

Single Gauss Cannon R4-8 Light PD Turret (10x4)    Range 40 000km     TS: 100000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 4    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Twin Gauss Cannon R4-50 Deck Turret (3x8)    Range 40 000km     TS: 13200 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 4    ROF 5        1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S01 30-32000 H70 (2)    Max Range: 60 000 km   TS: 32000 km/s     83 67 50 33 17 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S03 90-32000 H70 (1)    Max Range: 180 000 km   TS: 32000 km/s     94 89 83 78 72 67 61 56 50 44

Size 4 Missile Launcher (10)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 30
Missile Fire Control FC100-R100 (70%) (1)     Range 100.8m km    Resolution 100
4-MPD/ASM1 (100)  Speed: 15 000 km/s   End: 74.1m    Range: 66.7m km   WH: 9    Size: 4    TH: 120/72/36

Active Search Sensor MR190-R200 (70%) (1)     GPS 19200     Range 190.1m km    Resolution 200
Active Search Sensor MR134-R100 (70%) (1)     GPS 9600     Range 134.4m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor MR3-R1 (70%) (1)     GPS 24     Range 3.4m km    MCR 366k km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH3-42 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 42     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  42m km
EM Detection Sensor EM3-42 (70%) (1)     Sensitivity 42     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  42m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposesAlthough this is twice the size of what you wanted, having about half the things in it would still be effective (removin the missiles and some other stuffz to trim it). In the game this was in (finished and deleted already) this was one of the most effective ships in the fleet.

[83athom]

I am thinking 2 of these, 2 ASM Cruisers (with a little AMM), and 1 beam cruiser. What you want on that is lasers, microwaves, particle beams, and/or mesons. Lasers are like a main cannon with moderate rate of fire, decent range, and can deal a bit of damage, however their damage decreases with range. Microwaves are the anti-shield, they only do one point of damage but ignores armor. However, they do 3 damage to shields. If they don't have shields (or they went down) they will only do electronic damage (look at the DAC/Rank/Info tab of the designer and look at the Electronic only DAC to see what these damage). Particle beams are basically the sniper rifles of the ships, they have a really long range and do a good chunk of damage (I like using these a lot) but unlike lasers they will not decrease damage over range. Mesons do one point of damage (no matter the tech) however they ignore all armor and shields, so you can use this to do constant damage no matter the enemy. THIS is a really good page to help with choosing your beams. However, one thing I always do is include at least 1 CIWS on all craft, including commercial and escort ships like yours.

However I do have a question about your command ship. Can you post its design?

[CharonJr]

The design looks good IMO, you could free up a bit of weight with a shorter range on the FC, final defensive fire is always at a range of 10k IIRC, but you need a range of 30k+ for the FC to work.

[Bremen]

So we're talking like 20-30 strength-4 shields? How much armor should I be pairing that with? Right now I have 7 armor and 5 str4 shields across the board.   What should I cut for that extra 1000 tons of shields?

Generally when I do shielded ships I give them just enough armor to take a single hit of whatever weapon I expect to face, and use the rest for shields. Since you're designing an anti-missile ship, I might assume I'd be facing missiles of warhead 10-16 at most (4 armor pen) and give them 4 layers of armor; that way if the shields fail they can at least take a few hits before taking internal damage.

Shields and armor have an interesting relationship. Armor gives far more health, but has diminishing returns (the more armor you have, the more likely lucky hits or shock damage are to damage your ship while you still have lots of armor left); shields give less health, but have a cumulative effect (the more shields you have, the more they can regen before your ship is destroyed). So generally you either want no shields, or a ship focused on shields and without a large amount of armor. However, "no shields" is still a perfectly workable ship design, as a ship with only armor is still quite capable. Shields are in many ways more of a gimmick.

[Iranon]

Mostly shields is nice on capital ships - you prevent lenghty trips back to the yards from minor damage that never threatened the ship.
On smaller vessels, I see nothing wrong with a respectable armour belt and just a few shields: They'll handle the occasional leaker that gets past your PD and prevent shock damage. The armour is more likely to save your bacon when the going gets tough.

Design looks fine to me with the R1 sensor added, things I'd do differently are down to personal preference (I would probably use a slightly smaller ship for this role, fit larger and less stressed engines, shave off a little armour... but while CharonJr is right in pointing out that the FCs are on the large side I don't mind those at all. While expensive, they're a tonnage-efficient way of increasing your PD effectiveness even at 10k)

[JacksonTaus (OP)]

I am thinking 2 of these, 2 ASM Cruisers (with a little AMM), and 1 beam cruiser.  What you want on that is lasers, microwaves, particle beams, and/or mesons.  Lasers are like a main cannon with moderate rate of fire, decent range, and can deal a bit of damage, however their damage decreases with range.  Microwaves are the anti-shield, they only do one point of damage but ignores armor.  However, they do 3 damage to shields.  If they don't have shields (or they went down) they will only do electronic damage (look at the DAC/Rank/Info tab of the designer and look at the Electronic only DAC to see what these damage).  Particle beams are basically the sniper rifles of the ships, they have a really long range and do a good chunk of damage (I like using these a lot) but unlike lasers they will not decrease damage over range.  Mesons do one point of damage (no matter the tech) however they ignore all armor and shields, so you can use this to do constant damage no matter the enemy.  THIS is a really good page to help with choosing your beams.  However, one thing I always do is include at least 1 CIWS on all craft, including commercial and escort ships like yours.

What do I need this beam cruiser for? Just in case I run out of missiles and need protection or if someone sneaks up on me?

Here's my Missile Cruiser:

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Artemis class Missile Cruiser    15,000 tons     373 Crew     3926.8 BP      TCS 300  TH 480  EM 1440
6666 km/s     Armour 5-54     Shields 48-300     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 38     PPV 64
Maint Life 2.76 Years     MSP 2309    AFR 225%    IFR 3.1%    1YR 436    5YR 6541    Max Repair 500 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 1058   

Massart-Mustin 500 EP Military MFD (4)    Power 500    Fuel Use 32%    Signature 120    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 1,450,000 Litres    Range 54.4 billion km   (94 days at full power)
Coltharp Defence Technologies Theta R300/384 Shields (12)   Total Fuel Cost  192 Litres per hour  (4,608 per day)

Griswald-Sass "Crossbow" S4 RR5 (16)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 25
Whitford Striker Fire Control FC150-R60 (2)     Range 150.6m km    Resolution 60

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

So maybe drop down to 12-14 launchers to have room for the AMM? My concern with that is that that means I'm shooting only 24-28 missiles in a salvo if I've only got 2 of these guys - is that enough? I keep reading in the fiction about 40+ missile salvos being necessary.

However I do have a question about your command ship.  Can you post its design?

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Zeus class Command Cruiser    15,000 tons     300 Crew     4336 BP      TCS 300  TH 480  EM 1440
6666 km/s    JR 7-50     Armour 5-54     Shields 48-300     Sensors 56/72/0/0     Damage Control Rating 38     PPV 0
Maint Life 2.11 Years     MSP 2445    AFR 225%    IFR 3.1%    1YR 733    5YR 10997    Max Repair 500 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Spare Berths 1   
Flag Bridge    Cryogenic Berths 200   

Nurre Systems J15000(7-50) Military Squadron Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 15000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 7
Massart-Mustin 500 EP Military MFD (4)    Power 500    Fuel Use 32%    Signature 120    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 4,000,000 Litres    Range 150.0 billion km   (260 days at full power)
Coltharp Defence Technologies Theta R300/384 Shields (12)   Total Fuel Cost  192 Litres per hour  (4,608 per day)

Kahahane CIWS-250B (2x8)    Range 1000 km     TS: 25000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Whitford Missile Detector MR38-R1 (1)     GPS 216     Range 38.9m km    MCR 4.2m km    Resolution 1
Whitford Active Search Sensor MR301-R60 (1)     GPS 12960     Range 301.2m km    Resolution 60
Fairbanks Thermal Sensor TH4-56 (1)     Sensitivity 56     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  56m km
Fairbanks EM Detection Sensor EM4-72 (1)     Sensitivity 72     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  72m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

My missile range is only 127m KM.  I'm wondering if there's a benefit to finding room for a R20 sensor to deal with FACs - my original plan for them was to send out a fighter-scout to detect them if necessary, but I'm realizing that the fighter-scout wouldn't be much better either.