Post reply

Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

Note: this post will not display until it's been approved by a moderator.

Name:
Email:
Subject:
Message icon:

shortcuts: hit alt+s to submit/post or alt+p to preview

Please read the rules before you post!


Topic Summary

Posted by: mike2R
« on: June 04, 2020, 06:23:16 PM »

Quote from: skoormit on June 04, 2020, 04:08:31 PM
And I think you underestimate the chore of fixing things when the timing gets off. You won't get an event or an announcement or anything, you'll just find at some point that your base is not where it is supposed to be, because it is traveling towards the tanker.

I was thinking that the tanker fleet would either arrive or move outsystem quickly enough for this not to matter.  But I've tested it, and the idea's a bust anyway - the refuel from stationary tankers order gets cancelled with an error when the target fleet has any sort of movement orders.
Posted by: skoormit
« on: June 04, 2020, 04:08:31 PM »

Quote from: mike2R on June 04, 2020, 03:28:19 AM
I'm not in front of the game to test, but for regularly refueling a deep space logistics base (and resupply if there is an equivalent to Refuel from Stationary Tankers), I wonder if this would work.

Move the tanker fleet to the base, and issue the base orders to Refuel from Stationary Tankers with a long order delay.

Set the tanker fleet in a loop to refuel at the production point, and move to the base, using a long order delay to make it wait at the base's location.

If the order delays are configured accurately, the fleet should always be in place for the refuel order to succeed, and it wouldn't be a big chore to have to reset the order occasionally if it does miss the tankers.

I'm probably more willing to engage in micromanagement than most, but this is way beyond my threshold.
This approach would work, certainly, but the analysis required to set up each route is onerous.

And I think you underestimate the chore of fixing things when the timing gets off. You won't get an event or an announcement or anything, you'll just find at some point that your base is not where it is supposed to be, because it is traveling towards the tanker.
Posted by: mike2R
« on: June 04, 2020, 03:28:19 AM »

I'm not in front of the game to test, but for regularly refueling a deep space logistics base (and resupply if there is an equivalent to Refuel from Stationary Tankers), I wonder if this would work.

Move the tanker fleet to the base, and issue the base orders to Refuel from Stationary Tankers with a long order delay.

Set the tanker fleet in a loop to refuel at the production point, and move to the base, using a long order delay to make it wait at the base's location.

If the order delays are configured accurately, the fleet should always be in place for the refuel order to succeed, and it wouldn't be a big chore to have to reset the order occasionally if it does miss the tankers.
Posted by: SpikeTheHobbitMage
« on: June 04, 2020, 02:26:50 AM »

Quote from: Conscript Gary on June 02, 2020, 10:20:29 PM
Join As Sub-Fleet for supplies, and the usage of Hubs for ordnance and fuel are probably best for low-friction operarion. As for supplying the MSP to a base like this, it's probably worth crunching the numbers on just how much your ships will be drawing compared to how much storage you have. Just ten thousand tons of a supply depot station can hold four hundred thousand MSP, which could potentially allow a completely-exhausted fleet to draw from it dozens of times before refilling it needs to be considered. Obviously weigh this in relation to your actual designs and tonnage, of course. And if you're including Maintenance Modules, account for their MSP usage as well. Still, if you actually look at the numbers it might not be that hard to render the chore of resupplying the supply base a once-in-a-decade affair.
(Re-)filling a once-per-decade supply base requires a decade's worth of MSP for that base up front.  Under the current production rules that risks MSP starvation to other areas, assuming that you even have that much MSP on hand, and we can't even make up the difference with industry.
Posted by: Conscript Gary
« on: June 02, 2020, 10:20:29 PM »

Join As Sub-Fleet for supplies, and the usage of Hubs for ordnance and fuel are probably best for low-friction operarion. As for supplying the MSP to a base like this, it's probably worth crunching the numbers on just how much your ships will be drawing compared to how much storage you have. Just ten thousand tons of a supply depot station can hold four hundred thousand MSP, which could potentially allow a completely-exhausted fleet to draw from it dozens of times before refilling it needs to be considered. Obviously weigh this in relation to your actual designs and tonnage, of course. And if you're including Maintenance Modules, account for their MSP usage as well. Still, if you actually look at the numbers it might not be that hard to render the chore of resupplying the supply base a once-in-a-decade affair.
Posted by: Froggiest1982
« on: June 02, 2020, 06:11:53 PM »

Quote from: Graymane on June 02, 2020, 05:57:52 PM
WITP-AE

Best logistics ever. I do also like having my ground troops training for months before attacking a specific target.
Posted by: Graymane
« on: June 02, 2020, 05:57:52 PM »

I am probably overly influenced by my love of WW2 pacific theater operations as well as the game WITP-AE, but when I hear the word "Forward Base", I am thinking more in terms of Service Squadron 10 (basically floating fleet bases) as outlined in Beans, Bullets and Black Oil (if you can find a copy, I highly recommend it).  Service Squadron 10 was a veritable floating base consisting entirely of ships.

To me, it is the equivalent of a support fleet sitting at a JP, for example.  It has all the ammo, supplies, fuel, repair facilities you would need short of a refit or upgrade or seriously bad damage (which the game doesn't seem to model).  You don't merge with other fleets.  You drive up and use the same commands you would as if you were on a plant (IMHO):  Refuel from X, Resupply from X, Load Ord from X, etc.  Also commands for resupplying the base itself.  That is my hope anyway :P

I think things are on the right track, I'm sure commands will be added over time.  At least one of my issues seems to have been a bug anyway.
Posted by: Jorgen_CAB
« on: June 02, 2020, 04:34:03 PM »

Quote from: skoormit on June 02, 2020, 01:47:02 PM
Quote from: Father Tim on June 01, 2020, 09:15:55 AM
Quote from: consiefe on May 22, 2020, 12:59:18 PM
If you have a good way of automating resupplying remote stations or stations on colonies without MSP, I'll be a happier person. :)

I feel we lack a few simple standing commands and the ability to choose a resupply base for resupply ships.

Edit: Grammar

Load supplies homeworld
Travel to remote station
Unload supplies
Travel to homeworld
Refuel

cycle orders

This only works for taking supplies to colonies.
There is no "unload supplies" order for giving supplies to another fleet.
The "transfer supplies to" order is only available at a colony.

To be honest I think Steves vision here was that resupplying fleets in space are never a routine thing and therefore some babysitting is OK if not even mandatory as it should always be an important event.

So, your re-supply ships will join the fleet as a sub fleet and load the ships stores with supplies. When they are finished you have to detach the re-supply task-group and order it someplace else.

Regular re-supply ships are not meant to be used as re-supply stations, you are encouraged to build a forward base of operations for that purpose.

The problem as said is to easily re-supply a base that essentially is a fleet. In my opinion there should be an order to resupply any stationary fleet that has at least some maintenance facilities. I'm sure Steve will figure something out as he himself finds this to be a bit of a tedious feature as it currently can be.
Posted by: Froggiest1982
« on: June 02, 2020, 04:03:59 PM »

Quote from: skoormit on June 02, 2020, 01:47:02 PM
Quote from: Father Tim on June 01, 2020, 09:15:55 AM
Quote from: consiefe on May 22, 2020, 12:59:18 PM
If you have a good way of automating resupplying remote stations or stations on colonies without MSP, I'll be a happier person. :)

I feel we lack a few simple standing commands and the ability to choose a resupply base for resupply ships.

Edit: Grammar


Load supplies homeworld
Travel to remote station
Unload supplies
Travel to homeworld
Refuel

cycle orders

This only works for taking supplies to colonies.
There is no "unload supplies" order for giving supplies to another fleet.
The "transfer supplies to" order is only available at a colony.

I would add that still cannot believe this not being implemented yet as it was announced as one of the major new feature.

I am glad for what has been done don't get me wrong but I was always a bit skeptical of the ground combat changes and the logistic ones. As they surely add more to the game it is also true that as they stand they make it partially unplayable.

You spend more time working around simple missing commands than push your supply further and further or thinking if to glass an alien world rather than take your chances on a ground battle.

I personally don't care but doesnt mean I dont get frustrated by it.
Posted by: skoormit
« on: June 02, 2020, 01:47:02 PM »

Quote from: Father Tim on June 01, 2020, 09:15:55 AM
Quote from: consiefe on May 22, 2020, 12:59:18 PM
If you have a good way of automating resupplying remote stations or stations on colonies without MSP, I'll be a happier person. :)

I feel we lack a few simple standing commands and the ability to choose a resupply base for resupply ships.

Edit: Grammar


Load supplies homeworld
Travel to remote station
Unload supplies
Travel to homeworld
Refuel

cycle orders

This only works for taking supplies to colonies.
There is no "unload supplies" order for giving supplies to another fleet.
The "transfer supplies to" order is only available at a colony.
Posted by: SpikeTheHobbitMage
« on: June 02, 2020, 11:00:41 AM »

Quote from: Father Tim on June 01, 2020, 09:15:55 AM
Quote from: consiefe on May 22, 2020, 12:59:18 PM
If you have a good way of automating resupplying remote stations or stations on colonies without MSP, I'll be a happier person. :)

I feel we lack a few simple standing commands and the ability to choose a resupply base for resupply ships.

Edit: Grammar


Load supplies homeworld
Travel to remote station
Unload supplies
Travel to homeworld
Refuel

cycle orders
That will happily oversupply a station, potentially starving other locations.  We need a demand limited unload order to make it work properly.
Posted by: Father Tim
« on: June 01, 2020, 09:15:55 AM »

Quote from: consiefe on May 22, 2020, 12:59:18 PM
If you have a good way of automating resupplying remote stations or stations on colonies without MSP, I'll be a happier person. :)

I feel we lack a few simple standing commands and the ability to choose a resupply base for resupply ships.

Edit: Grammar


Load supplies homeworld
Travel to remote station
Unload supplies
Travel to homeworld
Refuel

cycle orders
Posted by: consiefe
« on: May 22, 2020, 12:59:18 PM »

Quote from: skoormit on May 22, 2020, 11:58:36 AM
...
3.
My fleet tankers travel with the fleet, and I detach them when empty to return for refueling. Unfortunately, this cannot be automated.
I build space stations for refuel and resupply, and tug them to jump points. I then coordinate logistics for keeping these stations supplied. Most of this can be automated. As of yet, there is no way to tell fleet A to give fuel/supplies/ammo to fleet B. Hopefully this will be added in an upcoming version. For now, you can only order fleet B to take from fleet A, or join the fleets together.

If you have a good way of automating resupplying remote stations or stations on colonies without MSP, I'll be a happier person. :)

I feel we lack a few simple standing commands and the ability to choose a resupply base for resupply ships.

Edit: Grammar
Posted by: Graymane
« on: May 22, 2020, 12:51:09 PM »

Thanks for all the help!  Seems like we are waiting for some missing features.  The overhaul one really had me scratching my head!  I was guessing I needed a Shipyard or something.
Posted by: consiefe
« on: May 22, 2020, 12:40:48 PM »

The thing about 3) is military fleets/colonies don't notify you when they run low on supplies. You can use the conditional order workaround then they'll say something when they are below %30 or %20. But then you have no way to tell a supply ship to go X colony when its low to get supplies there. Instead it tries to resupply itself from the closest(?) colony which possibly doesn't have them. This blocks the MSP automation and hinders station complexes with military protection, either on no MSP production colony or in deep space. I think at some point Steve might add neccessary commands as they are requested but for now I guess he'll be busy with more critical things.

Edit: Grammar