Author Topic: New player with some questions  (Read 2622 times)

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Offline SenorOcho (OP)

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New player with some questions
« on: July 30, 2010, 10:14:50 AM »
Hi there, started learning this game after hearing it described as "the Dwarf Fortress of 4x space games".
I went through the tutorials on the wiki, but am left with a general feeling of "well, NOW what?", as the tutorials seem to be entirely geared around basic interface, but at no point is a general goal given as to what I'm supposed to be doing in the short or long term.

I've started stumbling through setting up a new game, and put together a missile boat (I think)... is this going to be remotely effective for defending myself from anything I might run into early on?

Code: [Select]
Resolution class Missile Boat    5350 tons     510 Crew     654.2 BP      TCS 107  TH 320  EM 0
2990 km/s     Armour 4-27     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 9     PPV 17
Annual Failure Rate: 25%    IFR: 0.4%    Maint Capacity 688 MSP    Max Repair 45 MSP    Est Time: 10.46 Years
Magazine 144    

Nuclear Pulse Engine E10 (Mil) (8)    Power 40    Fuel Use 100%    Signature 40    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres    Range 16.8 billion km   (65 days at full power)

Twin 10cm C3 Near Ultraviolet Laser Turret (1x2)    Range 48,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 3    ROF 5        3 3 3 2 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S04 24-12000 (1)    Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
Pebble Bed Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (2)     Total Power Output 6    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Size 4 Missile Launcher (2)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 40
Missile Fire Control FC0-R1 (1)     Range 360k km    Resolution 1
Size 4 Faster Anti-ship Missile (36)  Speed: 9,400 km/s   End: 40m    Range: 22.6m km   WH: 6    Size: 4    TH: 31 / 18 / 9

Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (1)     GPS 12     Range 60k km    Resolution 1

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes

I've got non-combat designs quite similar to the ones from the tutorial, but I'm feeling a bit clueless-  can someone give me some direction?  :wink:
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: New player with some questions
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2010, 01:19:47 PM »
The ship itself looks okay, with a couple of caveats.

You only have 2 months cruising time before running out of fuel. That might not be an issue if the ship is operating in a fleet with a supply train.

You only have 2 launchers, so you'll need a bunch of ships to saturate the defenses of your target. You might also consider increasing the resolution of your fire control to improve range. You've got anti-missile class firecontrol running anti-ship launchers. If you look at the range of your firecontrol (360k) vs missile range (22.6m), your missiles have approximately 60x the range of your control. The rate of fire is a bit on the slow side, but that is improvable with research.

The missiles themselves (for my tastes) are a bit on the slow side. If you notice, your missiles have a 30% chance to hit ships moving the same speed as yours. And appreciably worse chances against faster targets.

You might consider stripping out the turret and power plant for additional launchers (and magazines). Then build a similar ship (copy design) and strip out the launchers and increase the turrets/anti-missile capabilities for a dedicated escort.

One thing about Aurora, it tends to favor the "naval design theory" vs the "Star Trek design theory", i.e. dedicated ship roles vs. "do-it-all Enterprise".

As for "Now what?" Go forth, explore the universe, crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.

Offline waresky

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Re: New player with some questions
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2010, 01:49:24 PM »
Ohh Yeah!

Erik's War experience are heavy in that.

Me same as Erik,specialization r "Key" in a crucial battle.

a good mixed Squadroon,Area Defence,FAC for fast attack on rear of the slowly enemyes fleet,Carriers for some roles,missile Cruiser for saturation,Gunboat or Battlecruiser with Heavy Deck Gun for crush enemy at JumpPoint,Minelayers for ambush'em and Colliers,Supplyers,Tankers,Cloaked Scouting ships,EM Jamming ships..

Rule an decent Empire in AURORA are absolutely a HARD matter..:D but the MOST BETTER experience in a whole game worlds.
 

Offline SenorOcho (OP)

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Re: New player with some questions
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2010, 03:33:43 PM »
Heh.  So the ship is okay, but everything on it is wrong. Got it.  :wink:
I'll take that to mean that the speed, maintenance, and armor are about right for this kind of vessel at this stage of the game.
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: New player with some questions
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2010, 04:43:15 PM »
Quote from: "SenorOcho"
Heh.  So the ship is okay, but everything on it is wrong. Got it.  :wink:
I'll take that to mean that the speed, maintenance, and armor are about right for this kind of vessel at this stage of the game.

Your speed is excellent for this stage. Armor is usually a personal preference, but it looks good too, and the maintenance is good.

One thing I just thought of, sensors. This ship is blind. No active sensors to see anything, and no passives either.

Offline Maximillian

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Re: New player with some questions
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2010, 06:06:34 PM »
Quote from: "SenorOcho"
Heh.  So the ship is okay, but everything on it is wrong. Got it.  ;)

The maintenance is high for a ship with such short legs. If it can only get about 32 days round trip from base or a resupply ship, it won't need that much in the way of on-board spares. You'll be able to repair battle damge fairly easily as well, but it might be more efficient to carry less maint. and add another launcher.

Max
 

Offline Andrew

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Re: New player with some questions
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2010, 05:39:11 AM »
You have an active sensor with resolution 0 designed for short (very short range missile detection) but no long range active sensor to detect ships to launch missiles at. Given the size of your ships I would tend to put lasers and missiles on seperate ships.
 

Offline UnLimiTeD

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Re: New player with some questions
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2010, 07:43:39 AM »
Naval Doctrines on medium tech levels (slightly in the future for you) tend to focus on one or two different approaches.

For Mainline Ships, theres several Choices to do:

A) Speed, Armor, Firepower, chose two. Or be mediocre in all, thats fine aswell.
Possible Approaches might include heavily Armored or very fast Beam ships to outlast or catch the opponent,
and very fast or very powerful Missile Ships to kite or alpha-strike the enemy.

B) Specialized or Generalized?

This question has more facets than you might at first think.

Do you have onboard sensors on every big ship and every gunboat, or do you field backup sensors on mainline ships and have one or two Sensor ships that will grant better coverage of the system, but are a weakpoint in your fleet?

Will your ships have clearly defined functions, such as "Missile Destroyer" and "Anti-Missile Escort", or will you have back-up beam weapons on your Missile ships for Anti-Missile Coverage and Short range defense (Fleet Defense Doctrine)?
On higher techlevels, this can be even more fleshed out;
You can use 200k ton Superdreadnoughts; or specialize your ships to that point that you got 3 Different missile ships carrying different ordnance, and have beam armed Anti-Missile Escorts and Missile Armed Anti-Missile Escorts.

Will every ship carry a high amount of maintenance and fuel thus weakening it compared to your size-class, or do you rely on a good logistics train to supply fuel and spares?
Both paths have it's merits;
Selfsufficient fleets can operate for longer without support and are more likely to overcome unforeseen challenges. They also aren't slowed down by a slow supply fleet.
A logistically more demanding approach however might strip your ships of some weight, allowing for that extra 300 speed you need to outrun your enemies, or the extra weaponry to win prolonged fights. It's also often preferred in defensive situations, when stationed on a well populated colony, the supply train is non-existant, and maintenance won't be a problem. This approach is very often, especially on planets, executed with gunboat squadrons.

Same question, more specialized: Do your ships have big magazines, or do you prefer them faster or with more initial punch, but a low amount of reloads, and rely on Ammo Ships to rearm them?
Especially Anti-Missile Ships often need big magazines because you can't chose when you are attacked.

C) Research focus:

Most players prefer to specialize either on Missiles or Beam weapons, and maybe slowly develop the other, or part of it, to keep the specialized scientists happy and productive.
If you specialize on missiles, your unlikely to focus on more than two beamweapons.
The remaining question would be if you want those as Attack weapons for Mainline ships and gunboats, or take the Anti-Missile Role (like Gauss Cannons) and use your missiles for Anti-Ship mostly.

_____________________________________________________________________

On your current design, and tech level, a mild specialization is recommended, you don't have to tech to punch everything into a single hull and still be able to produce it. And the fleet defense approach needs more ships than you're likely to afford.

I'd recommend a sensor ship, for the higher range you'll have on higher range sensors, especially on your level, but a backup on your mainline ships is always a good idea.

As for your ordnance, use WH strengths that are squares of numbers, 1², 2², 3², etc. = 1, 4, 9, 16, 25. Those will be able to penetrate an extra layer of armor, everything in between just increases the Crater, which is mainly useful on really heavily armored ships.

So, use WH4 Missiles, and put the rest in extra speed. And maybe maneuverability if you got some tech in that already.
Here you should find a detailed discussion on Missile Design:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2150

Theres a Missile Design Calculator up somewhere to help you with finding the optimal design, but I didn't find it right now.
 

Offline SenorOcho (OP)

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Re: New player with some questions
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2010, 11:43:39 AM »
Alright, here's a new attempt, based on feedback. Still a bit janky, but I'm sure this one has positive aspects other than "Well, it's a ship! It has some guys on it!"

Code: [Select]
Apollo class Missile Boat    5700 tons     500 Crew     698.5 BP      TCS 114  TH 320  EM 0
2807 km/s     Armour 4-28     Shields 0-0     Sensors 5/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 18
Annual Failure Rate: 86%    IFR: 1.2%    Maint Capacity 230 MSP    Max Repair 48 MSP    Est Time: 2.84 Years
Magazine 222    

Nuclear Pulse Engine E10 (Mil) (8)    Power 40    Fuel Use 100%    Signature 40    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 157.9 billion km   (651 days at full power)

Size 3 Missile Launcher (6)    Missile Size 3    Rate of Fire 25
Missile Fire Control FC2-R10 (1)     Range 2.4m km    Resolution 10
Size 3 Anti-ship Missile (74)  Speed: 10,000 km/s   End: 25m    Range: 15m km   WH: 4    Size: 3    TH: 86 / 52 / 26

Active Search Sensor MR2-R10 (1)     GPS 480     Range 2.4m km    Resolution 10
Thermal Sensor TH1-5 (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes

And an escort to go with it...

Code: [Select]
Artemis class Escort Cruiser    5800 tons     515 Crew     694.5 BP      TCS 116  TH 320  EM 0
2758 km/s     Armour 3-28     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 30
Annual Failure Rate: 89%    IFR: 1.2%    Maint Capacity 225 MSP    Max Repair 50 MSP    Est Time: 2.67 Years

Nuclear Pulse Engine E10 (Mil) (8)    Power 40    Fuel Use 100%    Signature 40    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres    Range 155.1 billion km   (651 days at full power)

Twin 10cm C3 Near Ultraviolet Laser Turret (3x2)    Range 48,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 3    ROF 5        3 3 3 2 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S04 24-12000 (1)    Max Range: 48,000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
Pebble Bed Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (2)     Total Power Output 18    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (1)     GPS 16     Range 80k km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes

 

Offline welchbloke

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Re: New player with some questions
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2010, 03:29:56 PM »
Your Apollo missile boat has a missile capable of travelling 15M km but a sensor only capable of seeing out to 2.4M km.  I would recommend your MFC at least matches if not exceeds the range of the missile.  The same goes for your active search sensor.  Either that or as mentioned by UnLimiTed you may need a specialist long range search sensor support ship as well.
Welchbloke
 

Offline UnLimiTeD

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Re: New player with some questions
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2010, 04:30:08 PM »
Lol, you can write the name small if you want ;)

Yes, basically, you need to think big.
Yur Missile Fire control should have a range of atleast 10m.
In Aurora, a million kilometers is just not big.
The ship design itself is good, well, you'll need a sensor ship, but it'll work.

Your Escort Design will do ok.
If you go for the Fleet Scout Approach, get that ship with a little extra Armor and an R100 sensor with atleast 50m km range.
 

Offline SenorOcho (OP)

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Re: New player with some questions
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2010, 05:55:16 PM »
Gah!
I just took a look at orbit distances to get a better idea of ranges.. Before, I was just going off of:
1. 2.4m km seems pretty far
2. that's waaaay longer than anything I can do with beams

Oh well, I continue to be dissatisfied with my early game economic plans, so I've got plenty of chances to get this right.  :wink:
 

Offline UnLimiTeD

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Re: New player with some questions
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2010, 05:56:01 AM »
:D
 

Offline SenorOcho (OP)

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Re: New player with some questions
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2010, 01:29:39 PM »
Ok. ok. ok ok ok.  
Code: [Select]
Ticonderoga class Missile Cruiser    5600 tons     541 Crew     739 BP      TCS 112  TH 320  EM 0
2857 km/s     Armour 2-28     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 20
Annual Failure Rate: 83%    IFR: 1.2%    Maint Capacity 247 MSP    Max Repair 96 MSP    Est Time: 2.03 Years
Magazine 276    

Nuclear Pulse Engine E8 (8)    Power 40    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 40    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 450,000 Litres    Range 180.8 billion km   (732 days at full power)

Size 4 Missile Launcher (5)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 30
Missile Fire Control FC11-R20 (1)     Range 11.5m km    Resolution 20
Size 4 Anti-ship Missile (68)  Speed: 22,500 km/s   End: 8.3m    Range: 11.2m km   WH: 4    Size: 4    TH: 120 / 72 / 36

Active Search Sensor MR11-R20 (1)     GPS 1920     Range 11.5m km    Resolution 20

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes

Code: [Select]
Tennessee class Escort Cruiser    5550 tons     522 Crew     654 BP      TCS 111  TH 320  EM 0
2882 km/s     Armour 2-27     Shields 0-0     Sensors 8/6/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 30
Annual Failure Rate: 82%    IFR: 1.1%    Maint Capacity 221 MSP    Max Repair 50 MSP    Est Time: 2.79 Years

Nuclear Pulse Engine E8 (8)    Power 40    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 40    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 450,000 Litres    Range 182.4 billion km   (732 days at full power)

Twin 10cm C3 Near Ultraviolet Laser Turret (3x2)    Range 32,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 3    ROF 5        3 3 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S04 16-12000 (1)    Max Range: 32,000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     69 37 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Pebble Bed Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (6)     Total Power Output 18    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR0-R1 (1)     GPS 16     Range 96k km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH1-8 (1)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km
EM Detection Sensor EM1-6 (1)     Sensitivity 6     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  6m km

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes

And my first shot at some kind of sensor ship...

Code: [Select]
Alaska class Scout Cruiser    5350 tons     432 Crew     678 BP      TCS 107  TH 320  EM 0
2990 km/s     Armour 4-27     Shields 0-0     Sensors 32/24/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 10
Annual Failure Rate: 76%    IFR: 1.1%    Maint Capacity 238 MSP    Max Repair 96 MSP    Est Time: 2.08 Years

Nuclear Pulse Engine E8 (8)    Power 40    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 40    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 450,000 Litres    Range 189.2 billion km   (732 days at full power)

Twin 10cm C3 Near Ultraviolet Laser Turret (1x2)    Range 32,000km     TS: 12000 km/s     Power 6-6     RM 3    ROF 5        3 3 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S04 16-12000 (1)    Max Range: 32,000 km   TS: 12000 km/s     69 37 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Pebble Bed Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (2)     Total Power Output 6    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Active Search Sensor MR11-R20 (1)     GPS 1920     Range 11.5m km    Resolution 20
Thermal Sensor TH4-32 (1)     Sensitivity 32     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  32m km
EM Detection Sensor EM4-24 (1)     Sensitivity 24     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  24m km

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes

Also, new question: I saw a mention of ammo supply ships- how would I go about making/using such a thing?
 

Offline Erik L

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Re: New player with some questions
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2010, 01:42:47 PM »
First the Tico.

Your sensors are geared to 1000 ton ships. As an anti-ship design, you might increase (decrease?) the resolution to 2500 or a bit more. This will give you a boost in detection range. Your search scanner has the same range as your fire control. This severely limits you in practice. Once you detect them, they are already in your range, and possibly in theirs. Having search scanners with 4-5x the fire control range is my norm. From a personal standpoint, I like my warships to have ~1 year of fuel; you've got 2, but like I said that's a personal choice. Those are some nice missiles for your tech. Guessing mostly engine?

The Tennessee looks like a good all-around escort design. Again the fuel stocks.

Armor on both are a bit light. Especially with no shields. A single hit from one of your own missiles will cause internal damage.

The Alaska. For a dedicated scout, it is very myopic. My scouts will have 2-3x the scan range of the non-scouts, in this case the Tico would have a scan range of ~50m km and the Alaska around 100m km. The fuel again, but you've kept the fuel the same across the designs, so that's good.

For a collier, design a ship with a crapload of magazines and in the upper right corner of the F5 design screen you should see "Collier". Check the box.