C# Aurora Changes Discussion

[alex_brunius]

Perhaps, a small component with a very slow refuelling rate - not much use for full size ships but probably fine for fighters that will only have 10-20k fuel. If larger ships mount it, it would provide an emergency (very slow) refuelling system.

Could also be balanced by a very expensive component ( so you really don't want to put 50 off them on your tanker/big ships, or all over the entire fleet ).

[Steve Walmsley]

That's more or less what I was proposing, although rereading my post, I didn't mention scaling the rate with size.  Make it 1 HS, and have it be 10% of the normal rate, or something like that.  In any case, that component will be very useful.  If we don't have that, "I lost all of my fuel tanks" will be even more of a death sentence than it is currently.
1. Understandable, although I'd have to check the unrep manual.
2. 100,000 tons is awfully big for early in the game, unless they can be built in factories like orbital habs.  Also, can those siphon fuel from the planet?
3. I suspect it's going to be longer than that (1 hour/fuel HS is a long time), but it's not the end of the world.

I did read a US Navy unrep manual (from 1996) while creating the new rules   The largest US navy replenishment ships can transfer 180,000 gallons per hour, dropping to around 40-50,000 for smaller ships. Section 3.2.3.

https://www.maritime.org/doc/pdf/unrep-nwp04-01.pdf

I decided to use litres instead of gallons (Sorium is more unstable )  and use the top US Navy rate as the mid-range. An Arleigh Burke holds about 580,000 Gallons, while a carrier can hold around 3.5m gallons of aviation fuel, so those correspond quite well to Aurora fuel tank sizes (using litres as gallons). A US DD will take about 3-4 hours for the best refuelling rate and around 12 hours for the slower end.

The Refuelling Station is a ground-based installation built in factories that is half the size of a research lab for transport purposes. The 100,000 ship-based component is a Refuelling Hub.

[Steve Walmsley]

Could also be balanced by a very expensive component ( so you really don't want to put 50 off them on your tanker/big ships, or all over the entire fleet ).

Multiple refuelling systems don't stack, so a second one is for redundancy only.

[Garfunkel]

Fantastic change! Instant fuel transfers have somewhat annoyed me for ages.

[QuakeIV]

If they don't stack, then that will strongly encourage lots of small tankers (in an attempt to get them to stack anyways).

I'm not sure if thats desirable or not.

[bean]

I did read a US Navy unrep manual (from 1996) while creating the new rules   The largest US navy replenishment ships can transfer 180,000 gallons per hour, dropping to around 40-50,000 for smaller ships. Section 3.2.3.

https://www.maritime.org/doc/pdf/unrep-nwp04-01.pdf

That was the exact manual I was thinking of.  I will point out that those numbers are per hose, and it's normal to see tankers refueling with hoses on both sides, and not unknown to see tankers using two hoses per side for bigger ships. 

I decided to use litres instead of gallons (Sorium is more unstable )  and use the top US Navy rate as the mid-range. An Arleigh Burke holds about 580,000 Gallons, while a carrier can hold around 3.5m gallons of aviation fuel, so those correspond quite well to Aurora fuel tank sizes (using litres as gallons). A US DD will take about 3-4 hours for the best refuelling rate and around 12 hours for the slower end.

I'm having a surprising amount of trouble duplicating those numbers, but I'll take your word for it.  (Actually, no.  I'd like sources, not because I doubt you, but because I want to know where the numbers came from for future reference.)

The Refuelling Station is a ground-based installation built in factories that is half the size of a research lab for transport purposes. The 100,000 ship-based component is a Refuelling Hub.

Ah.  My bad.

[IanD]

I would just like to note that the wet navies have been refuelling small ships from larger ships certainly since WW2.
Yes, it was very slow compared to purpose built replenishment vessels and only one ship at a time could be refuelled. Thus would it be possible to have a basic (low) transfer of fuel from one ship to any other as a starting tech. Sorium may not be bunker fuel but I don't think it’s as touchy as mercury fulminate!

In addition why would ships have to be stationary? They are in space, no waves or storms to batter the ships and cause disconnection! It should be similar to in-flight refuelling and current day frigates carry their own hoses, at least they did when I helped destore HMS Undaunted when a student (vacation job). That said I cannot see why the restriction on refuelling systems not stacking is in place. Surely it should depend on the sze of the refuelling vessel? Let’s face it if current airforce tankers can refuel three aircraft a time why cannot a spacecraft? It comes down to are spacecraft equivalent to wet navy ships or more like aircraft in some respects?
If they are more like aircraft then only tankers can refuel other ships, but if the model is wet navy then any ship should be able to reuel at least one other ship.

[chrislocke2000]

So given the new rules on fuel transfer are you also thinking about a similar system for ordnance?

[alex_brunius]

So given the new rules on fuel transfer are you also thinking about a similar system for ordnance?

Yes. This is literally what he wrote: 

"I will be adding some rules along the same lines regarding ordnance transfer."

[Steve Walmsley]

That was the exact manual I was thinking of.  I will point out that those numbers are per hose, and it's normal to see tankers refueling with hoses on both sides, and not unknown to see tankers using two hoses per side for bigger ships.

Yes, I was considering having the tankers refuel 2 or more ships at once (as part of the unrep tech line). It was the potential complexity of the mechanics that was putting me off but I think I may have a way to tackle it.

Each class or ship in a fleet would have a fuel priority set and the tanker would refuel the highest priority ships first. If the tanker could refuel two ships, it would simultaneously refuel the highest two priority ships in need of fuel (moving to other ships if it filled the tanks and time remained).

[Steve Walmsley]

I would just like to note that the wet navies have been refuelling small ships from larger ships certainly since WW2.
Yes, it was very slow compared to purpose built replenishment vessels and only one ship at a time could be refuelled. Thus would it be possible to have a basic (low) transfer of fuel from one ship to any other as a starting tech. Sorium may not be bunker fuel but I don't think it’s as touchy as mercury fulminate!

In addition why would ships have to be stationary? They are in space, no waves or storms to batter the ships and cause disconnection! It should be similar to in-flight refuelling and current day frigates carry their own hoses, at least they did when I helped destore HMS Undaunted when a student (vacation job). That said I cannot see why the restriction on refuelling systems not stacking is in place. Surely it should depend on the sze of the refuelling vessel? Let’s face it if current airforce tankers can refuel three aircraft a time why cannot a spacecraft? It comes down to are spacecraft equivalent to wet navy ships or more like aircraft in some respects?
If they are more like aircraft then only tankers can refuel other ships, but if the model is wet navy then any ship should be able to reuel at least one other ship.

You will be able to add refuelling systems to any ships, not just tankers.

Re the underway replenishment. I think it adds flavour to have this restriction. In technobabble terms, the liquid-like dimension in which TN ships travel causes the same type of random turbulence that affects wet-navy ships

[schroeam]

In technobabble terms, the liquid-like dimension in which TN ships travel causes the same type of random turbulence that affects wet-navy ships

Rock those little space sailors to sleep.

[JOKER]

Do we have to add refuel system on carriers?

[palu]

Why is all the UIin the screenshots yellow on blue? Please at least give us an option for normal colors that don't make my  eyes bleed.

[Steve Walmsley]

Do we have to add refuel system on carriers?

Not for hangar-based refuelling. I'll let hangars automatically refuel ships within them and perhaps have some type of hanger specific tech regarding refuel rates.