Author Topic: Odd duck designs  (Read 4067 times)

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Offline joeclark77

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Re: Odd duck designs
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2013, 03:22:27 PM »
grav ships, being marked military, have to use military jumpdrives on their hulls and all compenents suffer from military failure rates, even stuff that would normally be civilian drives.  Sadly.  Though that might not still be true.  last time I really mucked with that was 5.x.

I can confirm that they do not have to use military jumpdrives.  They do suffer maintenance issues, but when you're building a 4500-ton ship it isn't as costly, relatively speaking, to add extra maintenance supplies and crew quarters to make it suitable for a 5-year deployment.  The difference between 4500 and 5000 is much less than between 1000 and 1500, say.

I assume there's a design flaw with the program.  Perhaps Steve intended grav ships to be commercial ships like geo ships are, and they shouldn't be having maintenance issues.  Or he intended them to be military and the game simply allows me to break the rule.  Either way I think geology and gravimetric ships are meant to come down on the same side of the fence, so I'm designing mine to be basically identical whichever way I make them.  That tends to be simple commercial designs in the early game, military designs with sensors and stuff in the later game.
 

Offline sublight

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Re: Odd duck designs
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2013, 04:47:06 PM »
Fun Trivia: Only military engine components require military jump drives. Any military ship design that happen to use civilian engines is free to use commercial jump drives.

Of course, that doesn't help anyone trying to design a 1,000 ton grav survey craft.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 04:50:48 PM by sublight »
 

Offline GenJeFT

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Re: Odd duck designs
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2013, 04:52:47 PM »
Quote
XL Space Habitat I class Orbital Habitat    5,014,050 tons     610 Crew     6808 BP      TCS 100281  TH 0  EM 0
1 km/s     Armour 1-2609     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 1    Max Repair 10 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 0    
Habitation Capacity 1,000,000    

Fuel Capacity 5,000 Litres    Range N/A

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as an Orbital Habitat for construction purposes

I built that thing not thinking about the problem with towing it. My strongest tug pulls it at single digit speeds. The most powerful engine I had built up to this point was a 400 power commercial engine. I am now researching a 1400 power engine for the ship just to tug this thing.

Right now the only tugs I have are my old Salvager class salvage ships that only have 3 200 power engines. Adequate so far for my needs, until the above behemoth station.
 

Offline Erik Luken

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Re: Odd duck designs
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2013, 04:53:57 PM »
I assume there's a design flaw with the program.  Perhaps Steve intended grav ships to be commercial ships like geo ships are, and they shouldn't be having maintenance issues.  Or he intended them to be military and the game simply allows me to break the rule.  Either way I think geology and gravimetric ships are meant to come down on the same side of the fence, so I'm designing mine to be basically identical whichever way I make them.  That tends to be simple commercial designs in the early game, military designs with sensors and stuff in the later game.

Actually no. Geo are supposed to be civilian and grav are supposed to be military.
 

Offline joeclark77

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Re: Odd duck designs
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2013, 09:00:21 PM »
Actually no. Geo are supposed to be civilian and grav are supposed to be military.
So, am I cheating by having grav ships use civilian jumpdrives?  Or is it as sublight said, the rule about military jumpdrives only applies to ships with military engines?
 

Offline SpikeTheHobbitMage

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Re: Odd duck designs
« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2013, 03:00:25 AM »
So, am I cheating by having grav ships use civilian jumpdrives?  Or is it as sublight said, the rule about military jumpdrives only applies to ships with military engines?
sublight is correct, military jump drives are only required for military engines.
 

Offline Erik Luken

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Re: Odd duck designs
« Reply #36 on: June 26, 2013, 03:28:51 AM »
Grav sensors are supposed to flag the ship as military.
 

Offline joeclark77

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Re: Odd duck designs
« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2013, 09:33:43 AM »
Grav sensors are supposed to flag the ship as military.
So it's an unenforced rule, and I'm "cheating" by using civilian jumpdrives.
 

Offline Charlie Beeler

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Re: Odd duck designs
« Reply #38 on: June 26, 2013, 09:53:22 AM »
So it's an unenforced rule, and I'm "cheating" by using civilian jumpdrives.

No.  The Grav Sensor forces the ship to fall under the military maintence rules.  Whether you use commercial or military engines are up to you.  But the engine choice dictates what jump engine type is used.
Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study logistics - paraphrase attributed to Gen Omar Bradley
 

Offline byron

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Re: Odd duck designs
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2013, 10:33:58 AM »
Your BSPDC-1 provides 136 PPV for 433.6 BP, or 0.314 PPV/BP.  Good, but I think we can do better.

Code: [Select]
PDD Dummy x24 1 class      1,500 tons     4 Crew     36.6 BP      TCS 30  TH 0  EM 0
Armour 5-11     Sensors 1/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 24
Intended Deployment Time: 0.0001 months    Spare Berths 103   
Magazine 24   

ICBM Silo (1)    Missile Size 24    Rate of Fire 43200


This design is classed as a Planetary Defence Centre and can be pre-fabricated in 1 sections
Code: [Select]
Components
ICBM Silo x1
Conventional Armour x5.8
Crew Quarters - Tiny x1

11.85x Duranium
0.75x Mercassium
This design provides 0.656 PPV/BP, or slightly more than twice as cost efficient.  It also doesn't require any Tritanium or research in its construction.  This means it is available at turn 0 even on Conventional start.  I am not sure about the consequences of not having a Bridge, but it is buildable.  The ~4 minute deployment time should prove entertaining too.  ;)
I'm going to have to flag this one for being illegal on two fronts.  First, it has no bridge and it's over 1000 tons.  Second, it has no fire control.  If it is buildable, that's only due to the way PDCs are built.  Nice try, but not quite.  And your other effort suffers the same problem.  However, using ICBM silos is a good idea.  A legal (lockable) 32-ICBM PDC built in the same game as my previous efforts is:
Code: [Select]
BSPDC-3 class Planetary Defence Centre    38,750 tons     108 Crew     883.9 BP      TCS 775  TH 0  EM 0
Armour 5-102     Sensors 1/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 768
Intended Deployment Time: 0.0001 months    Spare Berths 107   
Magazine 768   

ICBM Silo (32)    Missile Size 24    Rate of Fire 43200
Hughes FPG-501 (1)     Range 8.5m km    Resolution 50


This design is classed as a Planetary Defence Centre and can be pre-fabricated in 16 sections
This comes in at .8688 PPV/BP, which is very nearly what you managed.  (The total cost of my added components was 11 BP, which is negligible at this scale.)  So I will concede that this is the best way to go about this.  Although fitting it with a better fire control wouldn't be terribly expensive, and would result in a platform that is not totally ineffective if you fill it with outdated missiles.  This does, of course, assume that the deployment time is possible.  A quick check shows that going to .25 month (enough to make sure there aren't any problems) costs 40 BP, which is bad for efficiency, but still leaves it well ahead of my design.
This is Excel-in-Space, not Wing Commander - Rastaman
 

Offline Detros

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Re: Odd duck designs
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2017, 07:38:07 PM »
When you are going to only transport commanders or teams you can just as well do it fast.
Code: [Select]
Griffin IV class Shuttle    90 tons     2 Crew     28 BP      TCS 1.8  TH 12  EM 0
13333 km/s     Armour 1-1     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 39.86 Years     MSP 19    AFR 0%    IFR 0%    1YR 0    5YR 0    Max Repair 18 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 15 months    Spare Berths 0   

Rice & Black 24 EP Fighter Magneto-plasma Drive (1)    Power 24    Fuel Use 136.41%    Signature 12    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres    Range 29.3 billion km   (25 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
 

Offline baconholic

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Re: Odd duck designs
« Reply #41 on: March 19, 2017, 03:44:43 PM »
I see all these real ship designs and I raise you my civilian blueprint class:

Code: [Select]
BP: C255000 class Blueprint    251,450 tons     9420 Crew     97193.2 BP      TCS 5029  TH 0  EM 0
1 km/s     Armour 1-354     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/940     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
MSP 242    Max Repair 100 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 2   
Tractor Beam     


Geological Survey Sensors (940)   940 Survey Points Per Hour

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes

It can build any 250,000 ton civilian ship using this blueprint on day 1, the shipyard never has to be retooled.
 

Offline Detros

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Re: Odd duck designs
« Reply #42 on: March 19, 2017, 03:52:56 PM »
It can build any 250,000 ton civilian ship using this blueprint on day 1, the shipyard never has to be retooled.
How often do you build 250kt ships?
 

Offline baconholic

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Re: Odd duck designs
« Reply #43 on: March 19, 2017, 03:58:49 PM »
How often do you build 250kt ships?

All my civilian ships are 250kt platforms that gets tugged around, just need to scrap/upgrade the tug when new engine tech comes around.
 

Offline serger

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Re: Odd duck designs
« Reply #44 on: March 20, 2017, 01:42:11 PM »
Well, I have some little ducklings too.

This is my training fighter design:
Code: [Select]
F/T-1 class Training Fighter    85 tons     2 Crew     11.8 BP      TCS 1.7  TH 2  EM 0
1176 km/s     Armour 1-1     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 49.41 Years     MSP 9    AFR 0%    IFR 0%    1YR 0    5YR 0    Max Repair 6 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 125 months    Spare Berths 0   

ENG-L mk.1 (1)    Power 2.5    Fuel Use 14%    Signature 2.5    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 5 000 Litres    Range 75.6 billion km   (744 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

And this is more ugly cheap thing for begging start - training orbital can cabin:
Code: [Select]
satcab class Satellite    7 tons     1 Crew     1 BP      TCS 0.14  TH 0  EM 0
1 km/s     Armour 1-0     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 1%    IFR 0%    1YR 0    5YR 0    Max Repair 6 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 0.1 months    Spare Berths 3   


This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes

And I used the same "cans" later as an anchor, ejected from large military ships, to fix TG with training task, when I want them at their exact permanent position (planet orbit or guarded JP).
 

 

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