Author Topic: Assaulting a Fortified Jump Point  (Read 1871 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Noble713

  • Chief Petty Officer
  • ***
  • Posts: 34
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: Assaulting a Fortified Jump Point
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2016, 04:45:31 PM »
Ahhhh, I see. Thanks for the clarifications on squadron jumps. New Jump Tender design, this one with a squadron size of 5 and 20 layers of armor. Twice as expensive to build though. Won't have time to test them before my flight  :'(

Code: [Select]
Suez class Jump Tender    10,000 tons     101 Crew     1418.5 BP      TCS 200  TH 500  EM 0
2500 km/s    JR 5-250     Armour 20-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 14/18/0/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 0
MSP 266    Max Repair 125 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 36 months    Spare Berths 0   

CERN JM10(5-250) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 10000 tons    Distance 250k km     Squadron Size 5
Khrunichev C500 Internal Fusion Drive (1)    Power 500    Fuel Use 4.42%    Signature 500    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 2,800,000 Litres    Range 1140.3 billion km   (5279 days at full power)

NRIET Thermal Detector 1-14 (1)     Sensitivity 14     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  14m km
Phazotron EM Detector 1-18 (1)     Sensitivity 18     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  18m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
 

Offline Zincat

  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • Posts: 203
  • Thanked: 14 times
    • View Profile
Re: Assaulting a Fortified Jump Point
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2016, 06:11:32 PM »
I arrive a bit late at this thread, but I'd still like to write my personal thoughts.

Just saying but... why are you building such tiny military ships? I can understand in the beginning, where any kind of ship is a struggle and all,  but... you are quite far ahead in the game, research-wise. You could have surely built bigger ships.

Let me put this into context to you, compared to the real world. Your first design you posted, that 5000 tons or so ship. If we were to transfer it to wet-navy equivalent of modern days that's about ... a patrol boat? Maybe a small destroyer?

I mean, the entire earth is defended by.. 15 patrol boats? :P That's a bit... puny don't you think?

To give you a comparison, a wet-navy modern cruiser has a displacement of 12000 or so tons. And a volume much bigger than that. If you were to build an aurora ship of comparative volume that would be a hull of at least 20000 tons, maybe more. For a carrier you'd be looking at a military ship of  over 150000 tons.

Of course Aurora is not really the same, but I wanted to put into context how truly small those ships are, especially compared to how far you are in the game. And you could certainly say "I want to use smallish ships", but just 15 of them?


Now that I've said this, some personal considerations on the way you approach this. I want to be perfectly understood, this might not be the most min-maxing way to go about it. I always try to avoid what I consider exploiting the game system. Because many of the "exploits", a human player would immediately recognize and avoid. The AI cannot do that...

Before I plan something in Aurora, I ALWAYS ask myself: would a real nation in the real world build this, do this, trust this to defend its borders?

I am not trying to patronize you, just trying to explain how I would do it, and why I would do it,  because I always try to roleplay my games in order to maximize my personal enjoyment.

1) For a jump point assault of this caliber I'd certainly , surely go for jump capable ships. You don't want to deal with the hassle of the problems jump-tenders would pose. I don't think the hassle is justified, plus you cannot retreat if things don't go well /those ships are not flexible/ etc.

2) Apart from that, you cannot expect to destroy 100 ships with 15 ships when doing a jump point assault, unless your ships are much bigger or you use the "bait ships" exploit. Basically you are faced with a decision: you either build a lot of smallish ships, OR you go with some big ships.

3) About the weapons of choice: I personally don't use box launchers on capital ships. I consider them a fighter/FAC-only weapon.  I also consider them an extreme exploit while facing the AI because the AI simply has NO way to realistically defend against box-launchers spamming. It would be different against human players. That said, the point I want to make is that for jump point assault, energy weapons are a perfectly valid solution. And an extremely effective one, since Steve put in shock damage. I think people who only use missiles tend to underestimate just how... VIOLENT... high tech, large caliber spinal lasers or the like truly are. As in, ONE-HIT-KILL violent.


So all in all, I'd go with either 10-15 25000 tons cruisers with tons or armor (20-25) and bristling with Lasers of Doom, or 25-30 15000 tons or so decently armored (10-12 layers are enough) missile destroyers. Make sure to put enough fire controls as more likely than not you won't have to use the entire firepower of a ship against a single opponent.

 

Offline 83athom

  • Big Ship Commander
  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 1178
  • Thanked: 73 times
    • View Profile
Re: Assaulting a Fortified Jump Point
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2016, 10:24:30 PM »
1) For a jump point assault of this caliber I'd certainly , surely go for jump capable ships. You don't want to deal with the hassle of the problems jump-tenders would pose. I don't think the hassle is justified, plus you cannot retreat if things don't go well /those ships are not flexible/ etc.
Or a jump squadron with a command ship and a division of ships to fill out its squadron jump number (with many squadrons).
3) About the weapons of choice: I personally don't use box launchers on capital ships. I consider them a fighter/FAC-only weapon.  I also consider them an extreme exploit while facing the AI because the AI simply has NO way to realistically defend against box-launchers spamming. It would be different against human players.
What I would do is use reduced size launchers of 0.75 or 0.5. I would also possibly add some box launchers as an external launch alpha-strike salvo (Like how one of my favorite sci-fi series Crimson Worlds does it) at low-med tech.
That said, the point I want to make is that for jump point assault, energy weapons are a perfectly valid solution. And an extremely effective one, since Steve put in shock damage. I think people who only use missiles tend to underestimate just how... VIOLENT... high tech, large caliber spinal lasers or the like truly are. As in, ONE-HIT-KILL violent.
  ;) My spinal battery in my high tech game did ~350 damage, my large turreted lasers did ~160, and I had triple medium-large turrets that did 40x3 each. Yah, they are quite violent.
So all in all, I'd go with either 10-15 25000 tons cruisers with tons or armor (20-25) and bristling with Lasers of Doom, or 25-30 15000 tons or so decently armored (10-12 layers are enough) missile destroyers. Make sure to put enough fire controls as more likely than not you won't have to use the entire firepower of a ship against a single opponent.
Exactly like my suggestion of Assault Cruisers. Use PCs to bring the cost down and gain a small damage increase if you want.
Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life.
 

Offline Noble713

  • Chief Petty Officer
  • ***
  • Posts: 34
  • Thanked: 1 times
    • View Profile
Re: Assaulting a Fortified Jump Point
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2016, 12:58:41 AM »
Quote
Let me put this into context to you, compared to the real world. Your first design you posted, that 5000 tons or so ship. If we were to transfer it to wet-navy equivalent of modern days that's about ... a patrol boat? Maybe a small destroyer?

Ship tonnages in Aurora roughly parallel their real-world equivalents. Take a look at the MEKO 200 class of frigates: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MEKO_200
My ships are classed as Missile Frigates and Escorts. Lightweight general-purpose warships, so yes, basically small destroyers. I have missile PDCs and some old obsolete Missile Boats (1000-ton FACs) to defend Earth. The frigate squadrons are meant to find and destroy any small forces (survey ships, small combat squadrons) poking their noses in surrounding systems or blowing up my survey vessels (if I'm trying to survey their territory).

I mean, the entire earth is defended by.. 15 patrol boats? :P That's a bit... puny don't you think?

To give you a comparison, a wet-navy modern cruiser has a displacement of 12000 or so tons. And a volume much bigger than that. If you were to build an aurora ship of comparative volume that would be a hull of at least 20000 tons, maybe more. For a carrier you'd be looking at a military ship of  over 150000 tons.

Of course Aurora is not really the same, but I wanted to put into context how truly small those ships are, especially compared to how far you are in the game. And you could certainly say "I want to use smallish ships", but just 15 of them?

I take a requirements-based approach to my military. I don't build anything bigger than I need, which would be wasteful. Operating a large standing navy would just leave me with a bunch of under-utilized ships that need to be maintained and retrofitted/replaced regularly, especially if my tech is rapidly evolving. My 5kT frigates have proven more than adequate (thanks to good anti-ship missiles) in deep space meeting engagements, so there was no incentive to building bigger or more warships. Because of Earth's R&D and industrial capacity, my weapon's development OODA Loop is something like ~2-2.5 years, from RFP (Request For Proposal, aka "I need a warship with capabilities xyz") to IOC (Initial Operational Capability, aka ships finishing production). In 3+ years of playing Aurora that's usually been "fast enough", as I'm almost always the aggressor in a conflict. And this is still only the 2nd time I've had to do a Warp Point Assault, the 1st time against about ~20 ships which I defeated with strike fighters.

.......

I'm finishing up the combat now. I sent in 5 squadrons of (1x Suez Armored Jump Tender, 4x Massacre Armored Missile Destroyer) via squadron jumps. A rump squadron of 2x Massacre-class conducted a standard jump. Those 2 ships were destroyed almost immediately as they sat right on the warp point. The rest of the fleet suffered almost no internal damage despite eating hundreds of anti-ship and even anti-missile missiles. They were largely out of range from the energy weapons. I targeted each hostile contact with 40 missiles. Some of their 18kT and 27kT laser-armed cruisers needed additional volleys.

All told I've destroyed ~1 million tons of warships for the loss of 2x 9,500-ton armored destroyers (5200BPs including their missiles). A pretty favorable exchange ratio. I'll soon be able to transit my frigates and corvettes to poke around their inhabited planet, and I've started building additional salvage ships because the ONE I have now will never be able to scoop up all this wreckage. Rescuing all the survivors should yield some useful intel. I just need to decide if I want to burn up my maintenance points overloading my life support transporting them back to my POW camp or if I should dump all the survivors out the airlock. >:(

I've also designed an Armored Cruiser with 10x meson cannons, but I haven't built them yet. I think they will complement the box launcher ships well. I need more jump tenders too. They were a production bottleneck because I didn't expand my commercial shipyards, and that delayed my offensive by several years.

Thanks for all the comments, everyone!
 

Offline QuakeIV

  • Registered
  • Sub-Lieutenant
  • ******
  • Posts: 132
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • View Profile
Re: Assaulting a Fortified Jump Point
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2016, 12:11:49 PM »
 

Offline Lossmar

  • Lt. Commander
  • ********
  • Posts: 209
  • Thanked: 6 times
  • Semper Humanis motherfrakkers !!
    • View Profile
Re: Assaulting a Fortified Jump Point
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2016, 05:17:16 PM »
Yep, thats how i imagine battles with Arachnids in Starfire went later in the war...

All them inteligence gathering opportunities <3

Shame you cant utilize POW's somehow in Aurora
« Last Edit: March 26, 2016, 05:30:18 PM by Lossmar »
We are the beacon of hope, light in the darkness, shepherds of the lost souls. - motto of the Terran Search and Rescue Corps.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIrnVszk6NVzZsLAgA__dmZaS0yvgyKtv  MY Aurora tutorials in Polish -  will resume after 7.2 comes out.
 

Offline boggo2300

  • Registered
  • Commodore
  • **********
  • Posts: 784
  • Thanked: 8 times
    • View Profile
Re: Assaulting a Fortified Jump Point
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2016, 04:36:44 PM »
Let me put this into context to you, compared to the real world. Your first design you posted, that 5000 tons or so ship. If we were to transfer it to wet-navy equivalent of modern days that's about ... a patrol boat? Maybe a small destroyer?

I mean, the entire earth is defended by.. 15 patrol boats? :P That's a bit... puny don't you think?

Current Australian Patrol Boats displace about 130-300 tons
the Adelaide class Missile Frigate (an Oliver Hazard Perry) displaces 4100 tons
the ANZAC class (a modified Meko 200) displaces 3600 tons

so if we were to compare it to today,  they're actually bigger than most frigates (I believe the OHP is still the most common ship of that type)
The boggosity of the universe tends towards maximum.
 

 

Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51