Need help with rethinking my missile cruiser/carrier fleet.

[NuclearStudent (OP)]

I built a fleet around a decisive battle doctrine. Four carriers haul advanced railgun PD fighters around, and two missile cruisers have ultra-long range cruise missiles and mountains of AMM launchers to supplement my carriers. Available to supply my fleet are tankers and a marine transport ship. Unfortunately, my inexperience has revealed a lot of problems in my designs, which I'll describe as I go. I've researched the next tech level of engines, so now is the perfect time to change things up. Note: I play with jump gates enabled on all jump points, which is why I'm too lazy to invest in building jump drives.


This is mycurrent carrier design. I have four of these guys-

     Agincourt-Wiseman class Carrier    48 450 tons     829 Crew     5277.9 BP      TCS 969  TH 2000  EM 0
2063 km/s     Armour 6-118     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 100     PPV 0
Maint Life 6.14 Years     MSP 4404    AFR 375%    IFR 5.2%    1YR 200    5YR 3007    Max Repair 125 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 60 months    Flight Crew Berths 1   
Hangar Deck Capacity 20000 tons     Cryogenic Berths 1000   

HAULER 50HS 500 EP Commercial Internal Fusion Drive (4)    Power 500    Fuel Use 5.3%    Signature 500    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 1 010 000 Litres    Range 70.8 billion km   (397 days at full power)

CIWS 6/5 TS16K  (10x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 16000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
MILTEC-GDR-AS S250TN RES 8250tn R-148m (1)     GPS 17325     Range 148.4m km    Resolution 165
MILTEC-GDR-AM S250tn R 1.25m (1)     GPS 105     Range 11.6m km    MCR 1.3m km    Resolution 1

ECM 20

Strike Group
10x   Kirusu PD-T4M3 MR  Rail Fighter   Speed: 12000 km/s    Size: 10
1x   Kirusu PD-T6M1 MS Rail Fighter   Speed: 16000 km/s    Size: 10
12x   Kirusu PD-T6M2 MS  Rail Fighter   Speed: 16000 km/s    Size: 10
3x   Doujinshi T6 Boarding Pod   Speed: 28455 km/s    Size: 9.84
3x   Zappa BD-T6M1 MS   Microwave Fighter   Speed: 16000 km/s    Size: 10
5x   Kirusu PD-T6M3 MS  Rail Fighter   Speed: 16000 km/s    Size: 10
6x   Kirusu PDL-T7 MS  Rail Fighter   Speed: 17204 km/s    Size: 9.3

(all the "Kirusu" are point defense fighters...most of mine are obsolete)

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes.

All in all, I'm pretty happy with the way my carriers are performing in battle.

However, I'm considering stripping them of their CIWS. Build point for build point, PD fighters around twice as good as my CIWS, and I have no intentions of using my carriers for jump point assaults.  My point defense has performed really well in my combat against NPR and against spoilers.

I'm considering stripping them of most of their engines, and having tugs transport them in battle. It would increase speed and save on maint life. Do I leave one engine, for emergencies, or do I leave two, for even more redundancy? I have some, really bad experiences where lack of redundancy in my designs completely screwed me over.

Agincourt-Footdragger Mk3 class Carrier    49 450 tons     826 Crew     6159.25 BP      TCS 989  TH 625  EM 0
631 km/s     Armour 6-120     Shields 0-0     Sensors 6/6/0/0     Damage Control Rating 110     PPV 0
Maint Life 4.8 Years     MSP 4892    AFR 391%    IFR 5.4%    1YR 349    5YR 5238    Max Repair 156.25 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 36 months    Flight Crew Berths 706   
Hangar Deck Capacity 32000 tons     

T7M2 TUG DRIVE 625 EP   (1)    Power 625    Fuel Use 3.54%    Signature 625    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 1 885 000 Litres    Range 193.5 billion km   (3549 days at full power)

MILTEC-GDR-AS S250TN RES 8250tn R-148m (1)     GPS 17325     Range 148.4m km    Resolution 165
MILTEC-GDR-AM S250tn R 1.25m (1)     GPS 105     Range 11.6m km    MCR 1.3m km    Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH1-6 (1)     Sensitivity 6     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  6m km
EM Detection Sensor EM1-6 (1)     Sensitivity 6     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  6m km

ECM 20

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

  Kate Beaton class Missile Cruiser    53 650 tons     1199 Crew     10918.04 BP      TCS 1073  TH 4950  EM 0
4613 km/s     Armour 7-126     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 74     PPV 324
Maint Life 3.12 Years     MSP 6596    AFR 523%    IFR 7.3%    1YR 1017    5YR 15257    Max Repair 1050 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 36 months    Spare Berths 0   
Flag Bridge    Magazine 4588   

MIL-TEC 1650 EP Internal Fusion Drive (3)    Power 1650    Fuel Use 104.91%    Signature 1650    Exp 16%
Fuel Capacity 1 505 000 Litres    Range 4.8 billion km   (12 days at full power)

S1 AMM Launcher ROF5 (60)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
S8 Launcher (33% Reduction) (100)    Missile Size 8    Rate of Fire 800
M2T4 MFC R750K-RES1 (3)     Range 6.9m km    Resolution 1
Mid-Guider MFC R87.7m RES 8000   (1)     Range 87.6m km    Resolution 160
MiniGuider MFC R8.75m RES8000 (20)     Range 8.8m km    Resolution 160
ASM-FAR MFC R1314m-RES8000 (1)     Range 1 314.9m km    Resolution 160
T7 R1.7m AMM TAR=26250km/s (1303)  Speed: 62 500 km/s   End: 0.4m    Range: 1.7m km   WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 875/525/262
S1T7 MINI-ASM WAR4 TAR 8620 (200)  Speed: 57 500 km/s   End: 7.6m    Range: 26.4m km   WH: 4    Size: 1    TH: 287/172/86
ASM-M R86.8m HC 50.1 S7-T6  (275)  Speed: 29 500 km/s   End: 49m    Range: 86.8m km   WH: 16    Size: 7    TH: 167/100/50
S7 ASM-TORP R64.4m HC 32.4 (180)  Speed: 16 200 km/s   End: 66.2m    Range: 64.4m km   WH: 16    Size: 7    TH: 108/64/32

(I have no idea what the ammo composition really ought to be. Right now, I have 10,000s of AMMs and a shortage of ASMs.)

MILTEC-GDR-AM S250tn R 1.25m (2)     GPS 105     Range 11.6m km    MCR 1.3m km    Resolution 1
GRAVDAR RES 8000TN Active Search Sensor MR1460-R160 (1)     GPS 168000     Range 1 461.0m km    Resolution 160

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

This missile cruiser is designed to be able to operate independently to patrol systems and defend borders. Massive amounts of AMMs provide missile defense, and I hoped to outrange enemy combatants using multistage missiles. In skirmish range, I can also use size one antiship missiles with my antimissile launchers.

This is the next generation I have on paper

 Kate Beaton M3LR AMM class Missile Cruiser    55 500 tons     1084 Crew     9164.04 BP      TCS 1110  TH 2500  EM 0
2252 km/s     Armour 7-129     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 70     PPV 324
Maint Life 4.37 Years     MSP 6160    AFR 492%    IFR 6.8%    1YR 519    5YR 7789    Max Repair 1050 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 45 months    Flight Crew Berths 12   
Hangar Deck Capacity 2000 tons     Magazine 4588   

T7M2 TUG DRIVE 625 EP   (4)    Power 625    Fuel Use 3.54%    Signature 625    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 805 000 Litres    Range 73.7 billion km   (379 days at full power)

S8 Launcher (33% Reduction) (100)    Missile Size 8    Rate of Fire 800
S1 AMM Launcher ROF5 (60)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
MiniGuider MFC R8.75m RES8000 (20)     Range 8.8m km    Resolution 160
Mid-Guider MFC R87.7m RES 8000   (1)     Range 87.6m km    Resolution 160
M2T4 MFC R750K-RES1 (6)     Range 6.9m km    Resolution 1
ASM-FAR MFC R1314m-RES8000 (1)     Range 1 314.9m km    Resolution 160
ASM-M R86.8m HC 50.1 S7-T6  (475)  Speed: 29 500 km/s   End: 49m    Range: 86.8m km   WH: 16    Size: 7    TH: 167/100/50
S7 ASM-TORP R64.4m HC 32.4 (180)  Speed: 16 200 km/s   End: 66.2m    Range: 64.4m km   WH: 16    Size: 7    TH: 108/64/32

NOT ACTUALLY RESEARCHED SHIP DETECTOR RES 25000TN Active Search Sensor MR329-R500 (1)     GPS dunno, but really really noticeable     Range 3287.0m km    Resolution 500

MILTEC-GDR-AM S250tn R 1.25m (2)     GPS 105     Range 11.6m km    MCR 1.3m km    Resolution 1

ECCM-2 (1)         Strike Group
1x   BR-Micro T7 Microwave Fighter   Speed: 17029 km/s    Size: 7.34
1x   BRD-Meson T7 Meson Fighter   Speed: 18274 km/s    Size: 6.84
3x   BRD-CRYO T7 Cruiser   Speed: 29274 km/s    Size: 8.54
1x  California Mk4 Bait Satellite   Speed: 1 km/s    Size: 0.14

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

I'm 100% changing this design over to use commercial engines instead of high powered military ones. My tanker fleet simply can't support moving this thing around. Also, I'm adding a hangar and a small fighter group made purely to board random alien spacecraft this ship might run into on its patrols.

I'm considering adding a really, really big ass-sensor just so that I know where everything is in a system when I run into it. The NPRs I'm fighting use big-ass ships, and if I could have a higher scanner resolution, I would. I've done the math, and any shipyard tooled to produce a ship like this can also be tooled to produce a non-command variant without the expensive scanners. The reason I don't use passives is that I have almost no research into thermal sensors.

I'm seriously thinking about  getting rid of the reduced size (33%) Size 8 Missile Launchers and replacing them with hangars and a box-launcher parasite craft, or at least putting in reduced size (25%) launcher instead.

I've considering getting rid of long-ranged missile launchers entirely, and shifting over entirely to size one anti-ship missiles. However, against the fairly weak PD of the enemies I'm fighting, I find that unnecessary. The long range fire control is supposed to be able to break up formations if a massive doom fleet is incoming, and to finish off fleets that are retreating from mid-range. However, I don't know if that even makes sense to try for. I haven't actually been able to make good use of superrange. I do, however, still see value in longrange missile fire for sole-patrolling missile cruisers to be able to do Freedom of Navigation patrols of frontier systems.

 The question of box launcher-hangars versus ordinary launchers still applies. Also, I still have the option of using tugs and reducing the number of engines for increased speed and reduced cost, as seen below.

       Kate Beaton-Boxer M3LR AMM class Missile Cruiser    53 000 tons     1149 Crew     7965.94 BP      TCS 1060  TH 1250  EM 0
1179 km/s     Armour 7-125     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 70     PPV 60
Maint Life 3.18 Years     MSP 5697    AFR 449%    IFR 6.2%    1YR 849    5YR 12738    Max Repair 1050 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 45 months    Flight Crew Berths 0   
Hangar Deck Capacity 17000 tons     Magazine 3788   

625 EP T7 Hauler Drive (2)    Power 625    Fuel Use 4.42%    Signature 625    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 805 000 Litres    Range 61.8 billion km   (607 days at full power)

S1 AMM Launcher ROF5 (60)    Missile Size 1    Rate of Fire 5
ASM-FAR MFC R1314m-RES8000 (1)     Range 1 314.9m km    Resolution 160
MiniGuider MFC R8.75m RES8000 (20)     Range 8.8m km    Resolution 160
Mid-Guider MFC R87.7m RES 8000   (1)     Range 87.6m km    Resolution 160
M2T4 MFC R750K-RES1 (6)     Range 6.9m km    Resolution 1

GRAVIDAR-PD S2500TN R 12.57M (1)     GPS 1050     Range 115.5m km    MCR 12.6m km    Resolution 1
MILTEC-GDR-AM S250tn R 1.25m (2)     GPS 105     Range 11.6m km    MCR 1.3m km    Resolution 1

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

In this carrier space, I can fit about 200 Size 8 box launchers with 2 fire controls, each capable of striking a billion kilometers away. Unfortunately, I'd need to devote a shipyard to making a parasite craft.


   Blade Runner M5 C-LR   class Monitor    413 tons     14 Crew     66.9 BP      TCS 8.25  TH 30  EM 0
3636 km/s     Armour 3-4     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3
Maint Life 12.38 Years     MSP 25    AFR 5%    IFR 0.1%    1YR 0    5YR 5    Max Repair 12 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 56 months    Spare Berths 0   

LR -MIL T7 15 EP Magnetic Fusion Drive (2)    Power 15    Fuel Use 13.81%    Signature 15    Exp 6%
Fuel Capacity 10 000 Litres    Range 31.6 billion km   (100 days at full power)

INCAP R1.5/C3 High Power Microwave (1)    Range 15 000km     TS: 4000 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 1.5    ROF 5        1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Monitor BFC S5 R48-TS4000km/s (FTR   (1)    Max Range: 48 000 km   TS: 4000 km/s     79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
POW3 Magnetic Confinement Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 3    Armour 0    Exp 5%

Surveyor's Scanner Active Search Sensor MR5-R500 (1)     GPS 1050     Range 5.2m km    Resolution 500

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and maintenance purposes
 
I have a couple dozen of these, just to patrol my local neighborhood. I also have meson variants, which are pretty much identical aside from having 10cm mesons.


 

[NuclearStudent (OP)]

 Millholland class Beam Battleship    51 950 tons     1669 Crew     14851.55 BP      TCS 1039  TH 8250  EM 0
7940 km/s     Armour 22-124     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 100     PPV 240
Maint Life 2.46 Years     MSP 8147    AFR 539%    IFR 7.5%    1YR 1865    5YR 27975    Max Repair 1050 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 20 months    Spare Berths 1   

MIL-TEC 1650 EP Internal Fusion Drive (5)    Power 1650    Fuel Use 104.91%    Signature 1650    Exp 16%
Fuel Capacity 1 505 000 Litres    Range 5.0 billion km   (7 days at full power)

R500K ROF 5 DMG10 20cm C5 Far Ultraviolet Laser (40)    Range 384 000km     TS: 7940 km/s     Power 10-5     RM 5    ROF 10        10 10 10 10 10 8 7 6 5 5
CIWS 6/5 TS16K  (5x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 16000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
LANCER BFC R384K-TS16000 EH1 (2)    Max Range: 384 000 km   TS: 16000 km/s     97 95 92 90 87 84 82 79 77 74
T4 FGT Reactor PO:3.2 S20TN (63)     Total Power Output 201.6    Armour 0    Exp 5%

MILTEC-GDR-AM S250tn R 1.25m (1)     GPS 105     Range 11.6m km    MCR 1.3m km    Resolution 1
GRAVIDAR-PD S2500TN R 12.57M (1)     GPS 1050     Range 115.5m km    MCR 12.6m km    Resolution 1

ECCM-2 (1)         ECM 20

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

My biggest problem with this ship is that I found out, to my dismay, I don't have the fuel to fly it anywhere. I know. Shocker. My solution is to build smaller parasite versions of it, and transport them in tugged carriers.

This below.
   
  Millholland Mini v2 class Beam Battleship    31 400 tons     951 Crew     9800 BP      TCS 628  TH 8250  EM 0
20397 km/s     Armour 22-88     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 10     PPV 120
Maint Life 0.53 Years     MSP 1951    AFR 788%    IFR 11%    1YR 3679    5YR 55190    Max Repair 825 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 1 months    Spare Berths 4   

MIL-TEC 2562.5 EP Potato Drive (5)    Power 1650    Fuel Use 104.91%    Signature 1650    Exp 16%
Fuel Capacity 1 880 000 Litres    Range 10.3 billion km   (9 days at full power)

R500K ROF 5 DMG10 20cm C5 Far Ultraviolet Laser (20)    Range 384 000km     TS: 13136 km/s     Power 10-5     RM 5    ROF 10        10 10 10 10 10 8 7 6 5 5
LANCER BFC R384K-TS16000 EH1 (2)    Max Range: 384 000 km   TS: 16000 km/s     97 95 92 90 87 84 82 79 77 74
T4 FGT Reactor PO:3.2 S20TN (32)     Total Power Output 102.4    Armour 0    Exp 5%

MILTEC-GDR-AM S250tn R 1.25m (1)     GPS 105     Range 11.6m km    MCR 1.3m km    Resolution 1

ECCM-2 (1)         ECM 20

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Do I have too much maint life? I'm also considering taking the risk and only having one beam fire control, because that smeg is expensive.

[Michael Sandy]

Are the cryogenic berths to allow for troop transport?  Don't you need actual troop transport facilities for that?

On the subject of boarding pods, would you use cryo transport pods, so your troops are in the pod full time, which doubles the size of a boarding pod capable of delivering a company of troops, or do you have to have troop capacity on the carrier, and then waste time loading the boarding pods?

I like the idea of cryogenic berths on lifeboats, not on the ship itself.  But that takes up a bit more space.

[NuclearStudent (OP)]

Are the cryogenic berths to allow for troop transport?  Don't you need actual troop transport facilities for that?

On the subject of boarding pods, would you use cryo transport pods, so your troops are in the pod full time, which doubles the size of a boarding pod capable of delivering a company of troops, or do you have to have troop capacity on the carrier, and then waste time loading the boarding pods?

I like the idea of cryogenic berths on lifeboats, not on the ship itself.  But that takes up a bit more space.

I'm not including cryo berths in new designs, because it's only to treat prisoners humanely, and I have dedicated lifeboats now.

I have dedicated armored troop transporters that escort the fleet, which take 7 minutes to load a boarding pod with marines or remove them from a successfully boarded alien ship. They can carry nearly 125 marines. In retrospect, that many cargo transfer enhancement things were overkill.

The problem with them is that they are 60,000 ton enormous things, and realistically, I'm only ever going to commit them to big battlefleets.

[Michael Sandy]

I do suggest an anti-fighter/LAC sensor and fire control on your cruisers, to make use of the size one ASMs in that role.  I do like having a dedicated size one ASM, instead of using AMMs in anti-ship mode.

[NuclearStudent (OP)]

My new missile cruiser designs have 6 AMM MFCs with 6.9m of range, which I think would be enough against beam fighters. The reason I'm not that concerned is that I haven't seen the NPRs I've fought use fighters at all.

Still my weakness *would* probably be against missile fighters...seeing that my S1 ASMs have a range of 22m km, I should probably add an anti-fac mid range MFC.

[Michael Sandy]

I think the theory vs missile equipped fighters is to have enough ECM so that the fighters have to close into your AFM range, or just take the missile hit from them, and box them in with your beam fighters.  Fighters don't generally have a lot of room for electronics, so I think ECM would be more likely to be effective against them.

But if the computer player doesn't use them, it would more be an RP decision to have ships that can deal with a mirror fleet, like a secessionist movement or such.

I like size 4 warheads in the anti-fighter mode.  You get a system hit on unarmored fighters, and most fighter systems are miniaturized so they don't absorb a full hit point, so damage continues on to other systems, likely getting a mission kill.  Even if they are armored, it won't take many hits to kill a fighter.

I like the theory at least of using the long ranged missiles as the finishing blow on retreating or scattering enemies.

As far as using tugs in a battle fleet, if you are taking any system damage at all, a hit to the tractor on the tug is a mission kill, and only one tractor can be active at a time, so extra tractors are useless except for battle redundancy.

If you are going to use tugs, using them on the carriers is the best bet, I think.  That way, when you get new engine tech, you just refit the tugs, while the carriers you only refit when new armor or sensors become available.

Maybe put a tractor on the carriers themselves, so they can pull themselves along with any ship you have.

[Michael Sandy]

If you are using mesons and microwaves, assume that the computer player will eventually get scans or even wrecks with them, and keep in mind you could eventually face them yourself.  In which case you will want to be able to repair systems damaged by them.  So yeah, make sure your pocket-battleship can repair its most expensive system twice or so?

I love your ship and system names.  "Potato drive".

[NuclearStudent (OP)]

If you are using mesons and microwaves, assume that the computer player will eventually get scans or even wrecks with them, and keep in mind you could eventually face them yourself.  In which case you will want to be able to repair systems damaged by them.  So yeah, make sure your pocket-battleship can repair its most expensive system twice or so?

I love your ship and system names.  "Potato drive".

I don't think I'd have a plausible chance of repairing my systems in-combat. The only chance I have, if a fire control is knocked out, is to have another fire control.