Author Topic: Populations  (Read 5346 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Krictic (OP)

  • Warrant Officer, Class 2
  • ****
  • K
  • Posts: 59
Populations
« on: September 26, 2015, 07:27:55 PM »
What would be the minimum needed population start to play (even if extremely slowly), i have an idea for a low population colony starting its own empire (conventional start), what would be the strictly minimum of pop i would need?

I ask because once i tried to start a game with 1 mil pop and discovered i had no ground mines and i don´t want to keep starting new games just to test it.

Thanks.
 

Offline Erik L

  • Administrator
  • Admiral of the Fleet
  • *****
  • Posts: 5654
  • Thanked: 366 times
  • Forum Admin
  • Discord Username: icehawke
  • 2020 Supporter 2020 Supporter : Donate for 2020
    2022 Supporter 2022 Supporter : Donate for 2022
    Gold Supporter Gold Supporter : Support the forums with a Gold subscription
    2021 Supporter 2021 Supporter : Donate for 2021
Re: Populations
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2015, 09:06:27 PM »
You can give any population you want, but you'd need to go in after with SM mode and add the necessary facilities. Just remember that your efficiency will be very very low.

Offline AL

  • Captain
  • **********
  • A
  • Posts: 561
  • Thanked: 18 times
Re: Populations
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2015, 09:12:16 PM »
I think it depends just how slowly you are willing to play...
So suppose you had an ideal habitable world with all minerals, and your colony on this planet has 0.0002m pop (one emergency cyro's worth of colonists) with exactly one construction facility and a stockpile of the minerals required to construct one mine. Since you can't have fractions of installations, this is effectively the slowest start you can get from the starting installations aspect assuming a Trans-Newtonian start. I think conventional industry counts as a cross between a construction facility and a mine but has a lower efficiency compared to the TN equivalents, so you could conceivably start with one of those instead and no starting mineral stockpile.

Strictly speaking, the absolute minimum pop should be whatever is the smallest number Aurora can handle - try experimenting around with SM to find the smallest starting population that doesn't simply register as zero. Even if you don't have enough workers to man your installations at the beginning, you can just wait for population growth to do its thing.
I can't remember exactly what the manpower requirements for each facility/mine is, but they should still function (albeit at reduced efficiency) even when you have a worker shortage.
 

Offline Krictic (OP)

  • Warrant Officer, Class 2
  • ****
  • K
  • Posts: 59
Re: Populations
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2015, 09:24:38 PM »
I think it depends just how slowly you are willing to play...
So suppose you had an ideal habitable world with all minerals, and your colony on this planet has 0.0002m pop (one emergency cyro's worth of colonists) with exactly one construction facility and a stockpile of the minerals required to construct one mine. Since you can't have fractions of installations, this is effectively the slowest start you can get from the starting installations aspect assuming a Trans-Newtonian start. I think conventional industry counts as a cross between a construction facility and a mine but has a lower efficiency compared to the TN equivalents, so you could conceivably start with one of those instead and no starting mineral stockpile.

Strictly speaking, the absolute minimum pop should be whatever is the smallest number Aurora can handle - try experimenting around with SM to find the smallest starting population that doesn't simply register as zero. Even if you don't have enough workers to man your installations at the beginning, you can just wait for population growth to do its thing.
I can't remember exactly what the manpower requirements for each facility/mine is, but they should still function (albeit at reduced efficiency) even when you have a worker shortage.

Thanks man.

Im testing he scenario now (im planning to write an AAR if i can manage), but because im starting a colony i had to start on SM Mode to create the system myself, because its not on sol.

Another question, is it possible to make more than one empire on the same planet? i was thinking of multiple colonial factions.
 

Offline AL

  • Captain
  • **********
  • A
  • Posts: 561
  • Thanked: 18 times
Re: Populations
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2015, 10:40:27 PM »
Indeed it is; the command to add another empire onto a specific system body should be visible in the "system generation and display" screen if you have SM active (the icon that looks like a sun on your system map), just select the same planet as your colony is on.
 

Offline Krictic (OP)

  • Warrant Officer, Class 2
  • ****
  • K
  • Posts: 59
Re: Populations
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2015, 10:53:08 PM »
Indeed it is; the command to add another empire onto a specific system body should be visible in the "system generation and display" screen if you have SM active (the icon that looks like a sun on your system map), just select the same planet as your colony is on.

But how does it work? what happens when the populatiosn grow too large? isit possible to unite them diplomatically or only by war? another thing, how do i set these factions as NPR? or is it only possible to add player races?
 

Offline MarcAFK

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 2005
  • Thanked: 134 times
  • ...it's so simple an idiot could have devised it..
Re: Populations
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2015, 12:16:16 AM »
You probably wouldn't want to start with much less than 100 million, otherwise your productivity will be pretty bad, but keep in mind that heavily populated ideal planets only employ 20% in production, as I recall 100 million population should be more like 50% as there's significantly less service industry.
I have run scenarios starting with 10-20 million pop inside massive freighters, initial construction was with construction brigades which are far more efficient to transport then factories.  Initial mining was from asteroids and comets, likewise fuel was harvested to save on employment, and even then I had to shutdown either the shipyards or research centers to get full production. Once again splitting the population up allowed greater production, but keep in mind that each point higher of colony cost requires an additional 5% of your population employed in agriculture ( which I assume includes life support etc.)
" Why is this godforsaken hellhole worth dying for? "
". . .  We know nothing about them, their language, their history or what they look like.  But we can assume this.  They stand for everything we don't stand for.  Also they told me you guys look like dorks. "
"Stop exploding, you cowards.  "
 

Offline Krictic (OP)

  • Warrant Officer, Class 2
  • ****
  • K
  • Posts: 59
Re: Populations
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2015, 12:42:49 AM »
You probably wouldn't want to start with much less than 100 million, otherwise your productivity will be pretty bad, but keep in mind that heavily populated ideal planets only employ 20% in production, as I recall 100 million population should be more like 50% as there's significantly less service industry.
I have run scenarios starting with 10-20 million pop inside massive freighters, initial construction was with construction brigades which are far more efficient to transport then factories.  Initial mining was from asteroids and comets, likewise fuel was harvested to save on employment, and even then I had to shutdown either the shipyards or research centers to get full production. Once again splitting the population up allowed greater production, but keep in mind that each point higher of colony cost requires an additional 5% of your population employed in agriculture ( which I assume includes life support etc.)

This would be against the lore im building, i don´t want to give spoilers, but they were refugees from the fall of their once-great civilization, they spent centuries in a single Generation Ship, with less than a million colonists and a few basic facilities, then once on the planet, they dismounted their ship and got the resources to jumpstart their new colony.
 

Offline linkxsc

  • Commander
  • *********
  • Posts: 304
  • Thanked: 16 times
Re: Populations
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2015, 01:05:48 AM »
Last I checked when messing around. You can have .001m pop on a planet and it will grow... slowly. Ofcourse with this number you cant even run a single conventional industry let alone a factory. And at only 10% growth per year, itlly take quite a while before it becomes viable.

Compound on this though, the real limitation to this. Wealth. This tiny pop wont be generating too much wealth at all, nor will they even slightly be able to support the wealth demands of a research facility, and will instead need to do research in short bursts every few years.
 

Offline Krictic (OP)

  • Warrant Officer, Class 2
  • ****
  • K
  • Posts: 59
Re: Populations
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2015, 01:17:14 AM »
Last I checked when messing around. You can have .001m pop on a planet and it will grow... slowly. Ofcourse with this number you cant even run a single conventional industry let alone a factory. And at only 10% growth per year, itlly take quite a while before it becomes viable.

Compound on this though, the real limitation to this. Wealth. This tiny pop wont be generating too much wealth at all, nor will they even slightly be able to support the wealth demands of a research facility, and will instead need to do research in short bursts every few years.

Even then, i think its good enough, i can adjust for such inconveniences in time. :v
 

Offline MarcAFK

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 2005
  • Thanked: 134 times
  • ...it's so simple an idiot could have devised it..
Re: Populations
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2015, 01:29:14 AM »
With less than a million pop you'll want all your construction to be brigades, you'll actually expand production faster making training centers and constantly making more con brigades. They don't need pop to run which is the big advantage. I would suggest using asteroid miners for minerals, maybe even orbital habitat platforms so you won't need population for shipyards. Maybe you should start with a high construction research to balance things out.
" Why is this godforsaken hellhole worth dying for? "
". . .  We know nothing about them, their language, their history or what they look like.  But we can assume this.  They stand for everything we don't stand for.  Also they told me you guys look like dorks. "
"Stop exploding, you cowards.  "
 

Offline Krictic (OP)

  • Warrant Officer, Class 2
  • ****
  • K
  • Posts: 59
Re: Populations
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2015, 01:53:23 AM »
With less than a million pop you'll want all your construction to be brigades, you'll actually expand production faster making training centers and constantly making more con brigades. They don't need pop to run which is the big advantage. I would suggest using asteroid miners for minerals, maybe even orbital habitat platforms so you won't need population for shipyards. Maybe you should start with a high construction research to balance things out.

Thanks for the advice, i will try to follow them later today

What about the idea of placing more than one empire in a single planet, is it viable? they would need to be NPR, is that possible?
 

Offline MarcAFK

  • Vice Admiral
  • **********
  • Posts: 2005
  • Thanked: 134 times
  • ...it's so simple an idiot could have devised it..
Re: Populations
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2015, 07:15:15 AM »
I'm running 5 NPRs on earth at the moment, it's kind of slow going but that gives me time to read through the fiction forum.
Note that running multiple empires might actually be faster if you control them all yourself, or at least from a story perspective it gives you better insight into the other empires. I have no idea what's going on in china, Russia, America, the Middle East, or India, except that they have a lot more ships than I do.
" Why is this godforsaken hellhole worth dying for? "
". . .  We know nothing about them, their language, their history or what they look like.  But we can assume this.  They stand for everything we don't stand for.  Also they told me you guys look like dorks. "
"Stop exploding, you cowards.  "
 

Offline sloanjh

  • Global Moderator
  • Admiral of the Fleet
  • *****
  • Posts: 2805
  • Thanked: 112 times
  • 2020 Supporter 2020 Supporter : Donate for 2020
    2021 Supporter 2021 Supporter : Donate for 2021
Re: Populations
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2015, 08:13:02 AM »
Moved to The Academy.
 

Offline Krictic (OP)

  • Warrant Officer, Class 2
  • ****
  • K
  • Posts: 59
Re: Populations
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2015, 09:37:30 AM »
Moved to The Academy.

Can you explain to me exactly what goes to the Academy and what goes to Mechanics forum? i feel a bit lost.

I'm running 5 NPRs on earth at the moment, it's kind of slow going but that gives me time to read through the fiction forum.
Note that running multiple empires might actually be faster if you control them all yourself, or at least from a story perspective it gives you better insight into the other empires. I have no idea what's going on in china, Russia, America, the Middle East, or India, except that they have a lot more ships than I do.

And there was i thinking about adding 12 factions, lol

Anyways, it must be NPR anyway, i do not have an specific story in mind, it will be the story of one of those colonial factions strugling to survive on this planet after the fall of their civilization, think of Alpha Centauri, but without all the gaia-theory story elements, just a single, geopolitical struggle that can (and almost centainly will) escalate to stellar proportions. :v

You said it was slow playing NPRs on the planet, then i will add just a few factions then, it will help me, because i will have less background to cover.

Finally, another question: there is an upper limit of population that a single planet can support?