NPR Tech level on conventional start? Or . . . something?

[Konisforce (OP)]

Okay, just checking in to see if I'm normal.

I was 6 years into a conventional start with a pop of ~500 or so, and I gave myself a couple extra research labs (16, I think?).  I was tech level 1 or 2 in most everything, and didn't have any navy to speak of.  Had colony ships running to a nearby world in the same system, and had found another 4 systems or so, one of which was inhabited.

I designed a recon frigate and sent it through (with a jump tender) to the inhabited world, then turned on my sensor.  Sure enough, some of their ships came to take a look.  As soon as I spotted them (at about 30m km?) I gave the order to jump out.  5 seconds later that ship was gone.  About 12 hours later, 6 ships transit that jump point and blow up my jump tender, then start heading in-system for my colony.  They blow up every ship in orbit, bomb the colony, then leave a trail of wreckage blowing up every ship along the line back to my homeworld, then destroy every ship in orbit of my homeworld, then leave.  Which is fine, 'cause I had no navy.

6 ships, with missiles with 40,000k/s speed, and they were carrying enough that they didn't have to reload even once.  If I had ONLY researched engine tech for the entire 6 years of that game, I still don't think I would've had the tech to make even just them missiles, let alone the rest of the ship.

So, the question is this: did I find an evil race of magical spoilery space gophers?  Or do the NPRs start at Trans-Newtonian tech even when I start at Conventional?  Or am I just really bad and am missing something?  Unless I just got unlucky on what random things I found, I don't think there's a way I can do a conventional start without SMing myself a bunch of things along the way.

[Hawkeye]

It is quite possible, this was a spoiler race.

It is, however, also possible to be a regular NPR, because, you see, NPRs in a conventional start have a _huge_ headstart.
NPRs _never_ do a conventional start. While you were researching Trans Netwon Technology, they started with a number of research points (between 50 and 250 thousand) allready finished and expanded on it.

So, count yourself lucky they didn´t turn your homeworld into a radiactive wasteland and start fortifying.

[Konisforce (OP)]

Hoookey dokey.  So not really any way to do a balanced conventional start, then.

Bummer.

Oh, starting year doesn't make a difference, right?  That's purely aesthetic?

[Rabid_Cog]

NPR's start TN even if you start conventional? Oh smeg, I'm so boned. I began a conventional start for a Feudalistic goverment in my game (Rise of the Wrix under fiction)  meaning I start with one research lab. One. I am now about ten years in and it sounds to me like I can expect a vast star navy to bust down my door any second.

And to make matters worse, I don't think I can safely SM out the race without royally screwing my database. Actually, I don't even know how to SM out a race, period.

[Konisforce (OP)]

Hmm . . . do NPRs start at Trans-Newtonian in basically the exact same way as you would on a TN start?  As in, they X number of research points randomly assigned and go from there?  Because if that was the case, then you could start a conventional empire with 0 NPR opponents and then doink around for a while in your starting system.  Because (unless I'm wrong and I often am) most NPRs are generated when a new system is generated and based on the gen-chance if there's a viable system present?  So you wouldn't have an opponent until you jumped into their system?

[Person012345]

NPR's start TN even if you start conventional? Oh smeg, I'm so boned. I began a conventional start for a Feudalistic goverment in my game (Rise of the Wrix under fiction)  meaning I start with one research lab. One. I am now about ten years in and it sounds to me like I can expect a vast star navy to bust down my door any second.

And to make matters worse, I don't think I can safely SM out the race without royally screwing my database. Actually, I don't even know how to SM out a race, period.

You -might- have a problem with only one research lab. Although I wouldn't think of it so much as a problem. Play the diplomacy game. Most NPR's can be reasoned with. Eventually you'll get a research agreement. Spy on them. Then when you're ready, go kill them. In my game, I first met the humans who I'd deliberately SM'd into existence, but accidentally gave massive RP to at the start, so they were technologically well advanced. I made friends with them. The second race I met were technologically pathetic. A handful of Hyouka Class frigates completely annihilated their entire fleet without a single loss. It varies massively. I simmed up for a while, then decided to declare on the humans. Although still much more advanced than me, my ships won the day after a fairly intense battle that left us each with 4 ships alive, but with me in control of sol space. It's not an impossible feat to beat more advanced races. Swarm command will just have to brush up on it's diplomatic skills.

[Gyrfalcon]

Diplomacy. From the Wrix? They'll take one look at humans, go 'ew, enormous grubs!' and open fire.

[Hawkeye]

Hoookey dokey.  So not really any way to do a balanced conventional start, then.

Bummer.

Oh, starting year doesn't make a difference, right?  That's purely aesthetic?

Well, it _is_ kind of balanced, _if_ you can survive the first, oh, 20 years or so.
The AI is in no way as good as a human at research and if a human and the AI start at the same level, the human will out-research the AI in short order, making for a rather boring game of curbstumping AI empires.
If, on the other hand, the AI has a huge headstart, the game stays a lot longer interesting.

Of course, if soon after game-start an NPR finds you, you are pretty much screwed.

Rising from the ashes could be an interesting challenge too, however;)


And no, starting year is just a roleplaying thing.

[Konisforce (OP)]

Right.  But it also means that rushing jump point theory and getting scouts out ASAP (like, before ANY weapon tech) is mebbe not a great idea, since it brings the baddies out of the woodwork . . .

[Gyrfalcon]

Well no, but with various spoiler threats turned on, it never really was, either.

[Rabid_Cog]

When you put it like that I suppose it makes the game challenging. I'm pretty lucky in that I haven't encountered anyone YET and it looks like there is some combat going on outside based on the interrupts. Just hope my minerals hold until I am ready to strike out.