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Posted by: sublight
« on: February 15, 2014, 11:15:47 AM »

It looks like we are discussing at least two games here, one multi system start, and one single system. It is getting confusing to parse out what is what here, might I suggest we move this discussion to a new subforum with two threads for rules discussion?

I guess I'll create the 2nd game planning thread then.
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php/topic,6806.msg69849.html#new
Posted by: alex_brunius
« on: February 14, 2014, 06:21:18 PM »

Posted by: Erik L
« on: February 14, 2014, 10:26:35 AM »

Or if Erik or another admin want to create a fiction sub forum for me I could create a thread there listing the basic ideas I have about what I'm planning to do and take feedback there.

Look under community games.
Posted by: alex_brunius
« on: February 14, 2014, 09:21:24 AM »

Well, it's the starting conditions for whatever game is likely to be played. It seems as if we've got a total of five possibly possible SMs (alex_brunius, Panopticon, sublight, sematary, Ektoras), and the final scenario and ruleset will be their choice. I'd propose one of them opening a thread for specific game discussions that they want to run.

Good Idea. I have written a big part of the starting scenario and ruleset already so there is not so much to discuss except if someone has any suggestions relevant to the game I'm planning other then what have already been voiced here in this thread.

Some of it will not be revealed until I actually start the game and start taking signups but if you have ideas your welcome to send me PMs. Or if Erik or another admin want to create a fiction sub forum for me I could create a thread there listing the basic ideas I have about what I'm planning to do and take feedback there.
Posted by: 3_14159
« on: February 14, 2014, 09:10:03 AM »

It looks like we are discussing at least two games here, one multi system start, and one single system. It is getting confusing to parse out what is what here, might I suggest we move this discussion to a new subforum with two threads for rules discussion?
Well, it's the starting conditions for whatever game is likely to be played. It seems as if we've got a total of five possibly possible SMs (alex_brunius, Panopticon, sublight, sematary, Ektoras), and the final scenario and ruleset will be their choice. I'd propose one of them opening a thread for specific game discussions that they want to run.

Quote
Also I am still strongly against more people in one faction. How do you want to do that? I mean one will do building and one will do ships? I want to play a game, not argue with someone over designs.... But maybe I am seeing this too negatively.
Quote
If I were to run a game with multiple players per faction, the one in charge of building ships would have complete control over the design of said ships. The CNO could submit requests to the one in charge of research.

I'd have a CNO (in charge of armed ships, not counting defensive only weapons), A Research Head, Chief of Colonization, and Chief of Survey Operations. Probably one additional "C" type to break ties. Chief of Infrastructure. The CNO decides what fleets to allocate to defense and how to run any wars. The research head decides where to allocate his scientists. The colonization head determines where colonies go. The head of survey decides what to survey and when. And the infrastructure chief is responsible for building facilities.

Of course this will probably lead to some friction, but can be hashed out I think. Any additional players could take fleet commander roles or ship captain roles.

Pretty much this. Each player has a certain rule - CNO, CRD (Chief of Research and Developement) and so on - who each are dictators in their own area. That, of course, requires communication and cooperation between them. For example, assume you are the CNO, and you want a new escort. Then you've got to ask the CRD to research the tech required (unless he already did so) and (if he exists) the Chief of the Naval Design board to design an escort, for example 6ktons, missile-armed, fleetspeed and must be able to intercept at least fifty missiles per minute for four minutes.
This would actually, alphapiomega, per necessity increase player/player-interaction. But this should lead to those interesting inefficiencies and human errors that make such a game more fun.



As of starting position, I'm now in favour of a single-system start, due to more interaction and sublight's slowdown-experiences.
Posted by: alex_brunius
« on: February 14, 2014, 09:08:30 AM »

Also I am still strongly against more people in one faction. How do you want to do that? I mean one will do building and one will do ships? I want to play a game, not argue with someone over designs.... But maybe I am seeing this too negatively.

To clarify what I intend to do is an RPG, a role playing game.

You will take the role of ONE character and write stories about this character to give life to the decisions taken and experiences in the universe. Your characters will collaborate with the other characters in the faction that holds other important key positions like admiral, minister of production, head of state and so on, both to provide different insights into the world/story we are building together, and to try to maneuver the nation to a good position among a competition of other nations and unknown threats.
Posted by: Erik L
« on: February 14, 2014, 08:25:29 AM »

Just to clafiry - by conventional start I meant what you guys refer to as conventional - nothing + BP/RP that the faction invests.

Also I am still strongly against more people in one faction. How do you want to do that? I mean one will do building and one will do ships? I want to play a game, not argue with someone over designs.... But maybe I am seeing this too negatively.

If I were to run a game with multiple players per faction, the one in charge of building ships would have complete control over the design of said ships. The CNO could submit requests to the one in charge of research.

I'd have a CNO (in charge of armed ships, not counting defensive only weapons), A Research Head, Chief of Colonization, and Chief of Survey Operations. Probably one additional "C" type to break ties. Chief of Infrastructure. The CNO decides what fleets to allocate to defense and how to run any wars. The research head decides where to allocate his scientists. The colonization head determines where colonies go. The head of survey decides what to survey and when. And the infrastructure chief is responsible for building facilities.

Of course this will probably lead to some friction, but can be hashed out I think. Any additional players could take fleet commander roles or ship captain roles.
Posted by: Alfapiomega
« on: February 14, 2014, 02:44:55 AM »

Just to clafiry - by conventional start I meant what you guys refer to as conventional - nothing + BP/RP that the faction invests.

Also I am still strongly against more people in one faction. How do you want to do that? I mean one will do building and one will do ships? I want to play a game, not argue with someone over designs.... But maybe I am seeing this too negatively.
Posted by: Cripes Amighty
« on: February 13, 2014, 03:11:26 PM »

It looks like we are discussing at least two games here, one multi system start, and one single system. It is getting confusing to parse out what is what here, might I suggest we move this discussion to a new subforum with two threads for rules discussion?

Agreed. There seem to be two camps forming.

I did an accelerated conventional start in different systems for my 2nd multiplayer game. Despite each system each being just 1-jump away from Sol it still took the players over 2 real life months and 20 in game years before anyone made player/player contact.

I remember reading this and that it took some time. That's why I'm really against a conventional start and a multi-start system. Empires are just going to ignore each other if we have a multi-system start. The whole point of multiplayer game is to have interaction.

The closest thing to a conventional start would be giving each empire some RP they can distribute as they like, but not allowing any empire to have already researched jump point theory. That should give the story about a year before serious exploration of jump points and new systems starts up. 
Posted by: Panopticon
« on: February 13, 2014, 12:24:53 PM »

It looks like we are discussing at least two games here, one multi system start, and one single system. It is getting confusing to parse out what is what here, might I suggest we move this discussion to a new subforum with two threads for rules discussion?
Posted by: 3_14159
« on: February 13, 2014, 11:07:36 AM »

NPRs and spoilers could be activated accordingly to scenarios and game level. Having some AI opposition to the players would spice thing a bit.
I am not sure it would work if we had many NPRs.  From Steve’s campaign it seems NPRs started wasting a lot of their resources the moment they could,  then it would be a race who can capture most of them.

Cooling sun and Invading Aliens seem to be the most interesting. Aliens should be balanced to offer struggle but not guarantee annihilation.
Quote
Aliens done right are always interesting. I was thinking an asymmetric setup that gives the aliens a +2 tech level advantage and the Earth defenders a 2x? 3x? population/industry advantage. The idea would be for Earth to use the defender's logistical advantage to hold out long enough to use their industry to catch up technologically.
This might be a good start - let the aliens begin one or two systems over, under SM control and with both an advanced warfleet and tech advantage. It then becomes a run against the time to evacuate as many things as we can. Contrary to AI-controlled enemies, this would allow the SM to provide additional excitement.
Let's call this the War-Exodus ruleset: A single alien ship had entered the solar system, but was destroyed quickly. Now, the nations of earth - each of which has claimed one extra-solar star system with habitable planet - try evacuating their populations before the enemy returns with their fleet - or fight a desperate defensive war against the constantly increasing size enemy fleet.
Something like the AI war escalation (never played it myself) would be interesting: Sure in their superiority, the enemy increases its fleet sizes the more the war escalates, but won't send all of theirs in just yet.

Quote from: sublight
1) Conflict is sort of the point with multiple people leading a single faction. Since inter-empire diplomacy is limited in Aurora, joint control generates intra-empire diplomacy opportunities as players try to 3-leggedly race their faction to the top. The more dysfunctional the cooperation, the more entertaining the resulting AAR write up will be to spectators.

2) Multiple people per faction is the only way to accommodate everyone expressing interest here into one game without overwhelming the SM. We would need three, maybe four, SMs running scenarios to give everyone a player slot in a one player per faction game.

I don't have quite as much free time as I once did, but if I skipped the fluffy bits of AAR paper work (or had a designated scribe doing that for me) I'd be happy to run a 2nd game, either with one-player per faction or team factions control depending on player demand.
This would mean that each player would 'have to' - or rather, be motivated to, - post some information and AARs concerning their position. Media releases, or something like that would be great, with a more detailed write-up after, for example, five and ten years.
Posted by: sublight
« on: February 13, 2014, 10:54:48 AM »

b) I do not like an idea of more people than one leading a faction. It will inevitably lead to conflicts inside of the faction and no way to solve them

1) Conflict is sort of the point with multiple people leading a single faction. Since inter-empire diplomacy is limited in Aurora, joint control generates intra-empire diplomacy opportunities as players try to 3-leggedly race their faction to the top. The more dysfunctional the cooperation, the more entertaining the resulting AAR write up will be to spectators.

2) Multiple people per faction is the only way to accommodate everyone expressing interest here into one game without overwhelming the SM. We would need three, maybe four, SMs running scenarios to give everyone a player slot in a one player per faction game.

I don't have quite as much free time as I once did, but if I skipped the fluffy bits of AAR paper work (or had a designated scribe doing that for me) I'd be happy to run a 2nd game, either with one-player per faction or team factions control depending on player demand.


d) I vote for conventional start, different systems.

I did an accelerated conventional start in different systems for my 2nd multiplayer game. Despite each system each being just 1-jump away from Sol it still took the players over 2 real life months and 20 in game years before anyone made player/player contact.


Cooling sun and Invading Aliens seem to be the most interesting. Aliens should be balanced to offer struggle but not guarantee annihilation.

Aliens done right are always interesting. I was thinking an asymmetric setup that gives the aliens a +2 tech level advantage and the Earth defenders a 2x? 3x? population/industry advantage. The idea would be for Earth to use the defender's logistical advantage to hold out long enough to use their industry to catch up technologically.
Posted by: Alfapiomega
« on: February 13, 2014, 09:43:19 AM »

Count me in for any scenario we decide to play but:

a) As mentioned here we need a proper ruleset and lift as much from SM as possible if we even think of finishing. Someone said this could take months. It could take years actually if we do it right. Therefore I would say something like: - players get unified sheet that they will submit everytime before a session where they explain their strategy, their orders etc. They will all have a mail address the SM can contact and they should check it at least once a dai, preferably more and respond to any situation that arises.

b) I do not like an idea of more people than one leading a faction. It will inevitably lead to conflicts inside of the faction and no way to solve them

c) spoilers and NPR's should be in

d) I vote for conventional start, different systems. Or if you guys wish I would like to take extra solar empire - I want to play something else

e) - on a sidenote, I can make this a bit more public through videos on my channel if we think of a format. Though I have no intend to be an SM as I lack proper experience.
Posted by: Ektoras
« on: February 13, 2014, 07:28:17 AM »

I think one of the problems SM will face is the slowdown of the game. So I agree with Panopticons suggestions. Trade could be simulated by a trade bonus as Narmio suggest or ignored completely.

NPRs and spoilers could be activated accordingly to scenarios and game level. Having some AI opposition to the players would spice thing a bit.

Now, are people thinking pure-sandbox or having a driving theme?
  • Ticking Time Bomb: Start with NPRs on Truce countdown.
I am not sure it would work if we had many NPRs.  From Steve’s campaign it seems NPRs started wasting a lot of their resources the moment they could,  then it would be a race who can capture most of them.

  • Cooling Sun. Better find a new home before the greenhouse gas cap hits.
  • Invading Aliens under SM (or other player) control. Defend, build, then counterattack.
  • Limited universe, limited real-estate. A race to find and claim the juiciest locations.
  • Something else?

Cooling sun and Invading Aliens seem to be the most interesting. Aliens should be balanced to offer struggle but not guarantee annihilation.

Another scenario could be:
Warfare without an end. Three factions, they hate each other with passion, 100% war from start only one will survive. This scenario could lead to more PvP action if we want that.

Can say that I'm currently aiming for 4 faction Earth start (all with additional ministers/roles recruited), and tech somewhere between Conventional and TN start.

I think it would be better to have each faction on its own planet. Same planet will limit player’s actions as warfare will be totally devastating, possibly on every faction on the planet.
Posted by: alex_brunius
« on: February 12, 2014, 04:55:31 PM »

Special mechanics should not be kept secret. Both because it takes away when we do something that follows Aurora's rules but not the mechanics in this also the faction that figures out the mechanics first is at a (potentially huge) advantage.

I was referring to things like not revealing exactly how profitable different investments will be directly (because that is something a real leader would never know before hand).
And not revealing exactly what formulas / dice rolls espionage (outside normal aurora) will be using.


Ill try to keep it fair and balanced as well as be clear about what is possible and not possible to do.
IMHO a big part of any RPG is trusting the GM/SM, I mean when playing you are 100% in the GM/SMs hands anyways.