Presenting a Tactical Problem

[gharad (OP)]

I hope this isn't out of place, but I'm been thinking about this for a while and I'm curious to see how other people would go about it.

Imagine the following situation:

Hostile aliens have invaded the solar system with a fleet of 15 ships of the same class, each weighing 1000-tons.  Experience from previous has shown these to have a sensor range of 12. 5 million km.  They are armed with 1-2 missile launchers; their missiles have an approximate range of 20-30 million km with a 4 kiloton nuclear warhead but no sensors.  Their ships have been observed to have a max speed of 3750 km/s and their missiles have been observed to have a speed of 16. 4k km/s.

Of these ships, 3 were destroyed unaware in a missile engagement, taking between about 6 missiles to be taken out of commission (sensors and engines down) and 9 missiles to be destroyed.  Due to high training, misses were rare.

The rest of this fleet is currently near the outskirts of Mars's orbit; 5 of them have their active sensors lit up and the inner system has sufficient sensor coverage to keep them visible on passive sensors at all times.

At your disposal:

A task group composed of 3 destroyers and 6 frigates, all armed with missiles, 83 million km away from the alien fleet.  They are currently undetected by the alien fleet.  Active sensors can only locate the alien ships at approximately 30 million km out and only the destroyers have active sensors.  All the destroyers and only one of the frigates have fire control capable of locking on to the alien ships at a range of 20 million km, these ships have an average crew training of 9. 5%.  The destroyers have a maximum speed of 3015 km/s and 3 layers of amour, while the frigates have a max speed of 3797 km/s and a single layer of armour.

The Buccaneer Missile has a 59 million km range with a speed of 8900 km/s, while the Bat Missile has a 5. 9 million km range with a speed of 7700 km/s.  The destroyer flagship has 2 Buccaneer launchers and a Bat launcher as well as enough ammunition for 6 salvos.  The destroyer consorts have 3 Buccaneer launchers instead and hold up to 5 salvos, and the frigate with the sole appropriate fire control has a single Buccaneer launcher with 5 salvos.

As such, if the aliens wish to force an engagement, they have the speed to keep up with the task force (unless the destroyers are abandoned).  Based on prior experience, there are only enough missiles in the task group's magazines to destroy 5 of the alien ships.  The nearest colony with missiles stores (Earth) is 37 hours away.  There is another force of 3 destroyer-consorts, with no missiles remaining, a week away from Earth.  There is also a destroyer-consort being overhauled on Earth as well as 4 PDCs armed with similar missiles and sensors.

What would you do? Force an engagement right away? Try to lure the alien fleet to Earth? Await the arrival of the second task group?

My apologies if this is overly long, I tried to put in only the relevant information, but there was so much which I thought could sway one's decision.

For full information on the ship classes available:

The destroyer flagship

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Vanguard Mk. IIA class Destroyer    9,750 tons     210 Crew     1112.8 BP      TCS 195  TH 600  EM 0
3076 km/s     Armour 3-40     Shields 0-0     Sensors 60/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 2     PPV 17
Maint Life 0.8 Years     MSP 143    AFR 380%    IFR 5.3%    1YR 179    5YR 2680    Max Repair 150 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 1   
Flag Bridge    Magazine 98   

Prototype Commercial Ion Drive (4)    Power 150    Fuel Use 10.61%    Signature 150    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 26.1 billion km   (98 days at full power)

Buccaneer Launcher (2)    Missile Size 7    Rate of Fire 105
Bat Launchers (1)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 120
Buccaneer Fire Control FC54-R90 (1)     Range 54.6m km    Resolution 90
Missile Fire Control FC20-R1 (1)     Range 20.2m km    Resolution 1
Bat Missile (7)  Speed: 7,700 km/s   End: 11.1m    Range: 5.1m km   WH: 4    Size: 3.5025    TH: 48/29/14
Buccaneer Missile (12)  Speed: 8,900 km/s   End: 110.7m    Range: 59.1m km   WH: 4    Size: 6.05    TH: 62/37/18

Small Ship Sensor (1)     GPS 5120     Range 48.6m km    Resolution 40
Active Search Sensor MR6-R1 (1)     GPS 112     Range 6.7m km    Resolution 1
Large Passive Thermal Sensors (1)     Sensitivity 60     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  60m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

The destroyer consort

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Vanguard Mk. IIB class Destroyer    9,950 tons     207 Crew     1003.6 BP      TCS 199  TH 600  EM 0
3015 km/s     Armour 3-41     Shields 0-0     Sensors 60/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 2     PPV 24
Maint Life 0.73 Years     MSP 126    AFR 396%    IFR 5.5%    1YR 173    5YR 2594    Max Repair 128 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Spare Berths 2   
Magazine 121   

Prototype Commercial Ion Drive (4)    Power 150    Fuel Use 10.61%    Signature 150    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 25.6 billion km   (98 days at full power)

Buccaneer Launcher (3)    Missile Size 7    Rate of Fire 105
Bat Launchers (1)    Missile Size 4    Rate of Fire 120
Buccaneer Fire Control FC54-R90 (1)     Range 54.6m km    Resolution 90
Missile Fire Control FC20-R1 (1)     Range 20.2m km    Resolution 1
Bat Missile (7)  Speed: 7,700 km/s   End: 11.1m    Range: 5.1m km   WH: 4    Size: 3.5025    TH: 48/29/14
Buccaneer Missile (16)  Speed: 8,900 km/s   End: 110.7m    Range: 59.1m km   WH: 4    Size: 6.05    TH: 62/37/18

Small Ship Sensor (1)     GPS 5120     Range 48.6m km    Resolution 40
Active Search Sensor MR6-R1 (1)     GPS 112     Range 6.7m km    Resolution 1
Large Passive Thermal Sensors (1)     Sensitivity 60     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  60m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

The sole frigate with proper fire control

Code: [Select]

Warrior class Frigate    3,800 tons     71 Crew     310.6 BP      TCS 76  TH 300  EM 0
3947 km/s     Armour 1-21     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 7
Maint Life 1.06 Years     MSP 51    AFR 115%    IFR 1.6%    1YR 45    5YR 680    Max Repair 112 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 1   
Magazine 39   

Prototype Commercial Ion Drive (2)    Power 150    Fuel Use 10.61%    Signature 150    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 70,000 Litres    Range 31.2 billion km   (91 days at full power)

Buccaneer Launcher (1)    Missile Size 7    Rate of Fire 105
Missile Fire Control FC20-R1 (1)     Range 20.2m km    Resolution 1
Bat Missile (2)  Speed: 7,700 km/s   End: 11.1m    Range: 5.1m km   WH: 4    Size: 3.5025    TH: 48/29/14
Buccaneer Missile (5)  Speed: 8,900 km/s   End: 110.7m    Range: 59.1m km   WH: 4    Size: 6.05    TH: 62/37/18

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


[Wolfius]

So only one frigate of the 5 has the right fire control? What of the other 4?

I also take it the enemy ships aren't using box launchers. .  And no mention of point defence. . .

I'd say meet them at earth, after reinforcments show up if possible.  Your ships aren't that great, have few launchers and shallow magazines.  You're going to want to mass your forces and make sure you don't run out of ammo.

[icecoldblood]

Just a quick question: Why are your destroyers using commercial engines? For maximum speed/power output as well as space conservation military engines are better.

Now for the problem.
As you have said, you only have enough missiles for 5 of them, so engaging immediately is suicide, especially since you have no anti-missile defence. Returning to Earth is the better option. Even if the aliens decide to engage Earth, the PDCs give you a much better chance at defeating them. If they don't give chase, your second group of destroyers can then arrive to bolster the Earth defense. Then, using your fast frigate, bait the aliens into entering the firing
range of the PDCs and destroyers orbiting Earth.

From my perspective this is your best chance at removing the aliens from Sol

[gharad (OP)]

The Bat Missiles were intended as very basic point defence.  After the first engagement, I realized that they were ineffectual.  The other 4 frigates are missing the antimissile fire control which is allowing the others to target the alien ships. 

My destroyers are using commercial engines for two reasons: these are my first-generation warships, having been rushed out the door after a hostile first contact with another batch of aliens, which I now suspect to be precursor guardians.  Given how much more advanced their ships were, it was hard to gauge the effectiveness of my own ships by comparison.  Secondly, I hadn't realized how much space the engines took at first and when creating the second-generation designs, didn't bother altering the engines.

Thank you for your insight!

[Paul M]

I would aim to mission kill the ships.  Your problem is that they outnumber you, and they are faster than you are.  I would plan to engage them and hit each ship with 3 missiles (or put another way launch 12 salvos of 3 missiles, one salvo per ship).  This will result in the enemy ships with differing levels of damage, not all of it critical (though frankly a 1000 ton ship hasn't got too much in the way of non-critical internal hits).  The enemy then can pursue but only with those ships that can match your speed, or stay togther and possibly not be able to effectively pursue.

The main gain here is time.  You can then assembly your full force, re-munition and defeat the enemy at a time and place of your own choosing.  Even if the damage is repaired I suspect there will be limited spares on board such small ships to repair what are likely to be 3 damaged systems per ship.  That takes time.  Also if you launch at 18-19 m km the enemy has no way to know where you are outside of "in the direction the missiles came from" and it will take 1.5 days for them to close the distance...during which you can alter your direction and avoid detection.  Even if the enemy does press the engagement you are in this case facing ships each of which has lost a substantial fraction of its armour belt.

The other option is to just assembly your full fleet at Earth and await them there under the cover of your forts.  But if all ships are damaged they might withdraw to repair and save you the rest of the fight.  Generally speaking a damaged ship is more effort to deal with than a destroyed one, so it is often worth damaging multiple ships as opposed to destroying a smaller number.

[Erik L]

If they are one of the spoiler races, I do believe one of them has the ability to repair by using raw materials from asteroids and the like.

[Panopticon]

The ships as described don't seem good enough to be spoiler races, I'm with Paul M here, try to mission kill them rather than destroy outright. 2-3 missiles per ship should get you some penetration against 1000 tonners, and like he mentioned there isn't a lot on a ship that small that isn't mission critical, if you destroy or cripple engines, weapons, magazines, or fire control on any ship it essentially becomes useless, with only a little bit of luck you can pull the teeth on the whole enemy force, then rely on your PDCs to keep Earth safe while you reload.

Worst case scenario is they shoot up your task force a little bit, then run out of missiles and retreat to reload anyway, they can't have really deep magazines on a 1000 tonner, and strength 4 will take a while to get through 3 layers of armor on your bigger ships, you might lose one or two, but they will take their licks from you while doing it, and you will be better prepared if/when they come back. I give you good odds on this encounter.

[Brian Neumann]

I to would go for mission kills with the ships that have ammo currently.  As several people have said 1000 ton ships are fairly frail ships and almost any damage at range is going to have an effect.  At that size just killing their crew quarters is going to be devastating as they are to far from your ships/planet to be able to engage before the crew starts dying.  With 4 point warheads you are likely to get 1 point of damage through their armor belt assuming it is only 1 layer thick.  If you can get the ships that are out of ammo to rendezvous with the other ships they can crossload some missiles.  Try to get enough missiles for full salvo's from as many ships as possible.  Have each ship fire 1 salvo at a different target each time until all the enemy ships have 1 salvo targeted on them.  Wait to see the effects before firing on a target more than once.  If you are lucky a couple of the ships will take engine hits.  Even if they repair them that will take time and split them off from the others and spreading them out.  Repeat until your ships are out of ammo and head for earth to get more missiles.  I would not put your ships on a direct heading between the enemy and earth as you are going to want to cut the corner if at all possible.  If the enemy has shields then all this goes out the window and you are going to want to concentrate fire enough to get 6 hits as that will probably be enough to get a mission kill.  Even a couple of points of shields in this setup will make a big difference as they will prevent any individual missile from getting damage through the armor.

Brian

[gharad (OP)]

Thank you for all the responses!

I followed Paul M's suggestion of going for mission kills and force concentration.  Brian's remark about crossloading ammunition was very useful.  For some reason, the alien fleet was slowly ambling towards Earth at 400 km/s, so the fleet was sent to meet them.  Missile lock was obtained near Mars orbit.  Unfortunately, not all the ships were up to the high standards of those involved in the first skirmish (which left 3 alien ships destroyed), resulting in fewer hits.  In addition, 5 previously undetected alien ships of the same class appeared upon contact.  Combined with accidentally assigning some targets more missiles than necessary, this meant that even with the use of the other frigates as rushed colliers, 3 alien ships escaped.  9 were destroyed and 5 have non-functional engines.

The comments about their limited magazines were spot on! Only a single salvo was fired.  Alas, I was mistaken in my original post: the alien ships had 3 launchers, for a total of 51 missiles aimed at a single destroyer-consort.  Fortunately, she survived relatively unscathed.  The most damaging part was that the fire control was knocked offline, resulting in the self-destruction of 6 missiles which were still en route.

[Panopticon]

So the survivors ran? sounds like a result to me! Now you know you are at a pretty equivalent tech level, probably slightly higher if your admittedly poorly designed ships took theirs out, time to try to track the home system while your next generation builds, good luck.

[gharad (OP)]

I actually discovered their home system and initiated communications -- or at least, a system containing a planet with incredibly high EM emissions on par with Earth's.   Starting out neutral, they were the only non-hostile species I'd encountered thus far so I was determined to get them to be friendly. 

Time went by until I noticed them constructing jump gates through intervening systems to Sol.   After some panicked fleet maneuvers, I settled down and kept on expanding my industries.  .  .  until I discovered that they had colonized Luna.   A few days later, their fleet and a pair of 7.  8k ton ships arrived in Earth orbit and began nuking my shipping lines.   Most of my fleet was out on maneuvers, but fortunately I had some PDCs and some ships awaiting refit at hand.   The pair of larger ships were destroyed and the score of smaller ships ran, but not before nuking Earth a few times.  It was good that they ran, because that was when I discovered the inadequacy of my sensors.

There is a reason now why the flagship of home fleet is named 'Vendetta'.  I still refer to that (in-game) day as Bloody Valentine.

[Paul M]

I am glad things worked out for you in the battle.  Sounds like you needed to put a diplomatic team on these guys.  It is worth noting that what you see in your diplomatic screen is what you think of them.  They can have a different viewpoint.

[gharad (OP)]

I had my top diplomatic team on them and breakthroughs were occurring regularly until Bloody Valentine.  I think the clincher was the Luna colony -- it was seeing all my ships going by and and wasn't friendly enough with them for them to be all right with seeing my ships in 'their' system.