Origin of fleet doctrines for Aurora

[Vandermeer (OP)]

Don't forget those ships were designed in 4.77 I think.

Ah, then I am thankful that the numbers evolved to also fit my own preference.^^

Yes you can have a relatively uneventful game by bunkering.

Aah, also this isn't the cause. In my first two games I did venture out as early as I could and developed the technology on the flight just like everyone else. My first big explorers didn't even have hangars since I did not get to researching them yet, and still they clocked in at 80kt (first military design of my life), and then 120kt and 180kt (+later 700kt after 70 years) for my second game. Only problem I had there was to fuel those, but just because I didn't yet recognize that gas giants are by far the supreme fuel source. Other than that the second game went pretty well (except for the slow down of course), so doing things this way works just fine.
This bunkering I did not do to get resource for giant craft. That is present anyway you play it after a while. I only did it to keep my game small so that increments would calculate fast and I could get to lategame technology swiftly to realize this dream of a huge working fortress. You may call it uneventful, but considering I did this all in about 3 days which normally would take months by normal play to reach, I say the events are just about to start.
Anyway, even without such set project, there is nothing standing in the way of larger build doctrines. At least as soon as you developed your first viable extrasolar mining colony that is. ..Inside of sol, it is of course harsh/impossible unless you have Lady Fortuna running the random generator. 

I designate classes based on function instead of size.  Of course, function and size often correlate.  When I am home from business travel on Thu I will post my system in this thread.

Ok, you could probably claim the title of the first (that I saw) who did something different then. The discussion was kind of focused on larger ships so far, mostly because that is the most obvious difference to classical sci-fi, but actually everything that is divergent of the common doctrine would be something new.

So not everyone is cleaving hard to the schema in the OP.  I'd wager that not even most people are.  It could just be most people who actually show up here to talk about it.

Maybe, but that is quite the statistical anomaly too then. Like, no records at all? Cross-forum?

[Erik L]

Maybe, but that is quite the statistical anomaly too then. Like, no records at all? Cross-forum?

As far as I know, this is the only place where detailed and consistent posts are made for Aurora. I know Bay12 and a couple of other places had some AARs posted.

[Theodidactus]

Ok, you could probably claim the title of the first (that I saw) who did something different then. The discussion was kind of focused on larger ships so far, mostly because that is the most obvious difference to classical sci-fi, but actually everything that is divergent of the common doctrine would be something new.

I wanted my setting to feel more like 1700s-1800s colonial politics than "world war II in space" which is what most people do. I read a lot of Horatio Hornblower and The baroque cycle. My fleets are fast and short ranged and very slow firing and emphasize single devastating broadsides.

[Jaque_Thay]

Relative newbie. . .  but I'm playing through the first game where I have even the slightest semblance of a military and my first Cruiser was 6000 tons.  The jump-capable follow up was 10,000 tons (though with a decade of research I could have fitted the same capabilities in 8000).  This was designated as a Heavy Cruiser at the time. . .  but I'm working on the second generation of that ship at the moment and it will likely end up at the 10k mark once fully finished (even accounting for size efficiencies introduced).  This will probably end up being a Cruiser and will encompass the 10-15k range with the smaller 6k vessel being redesignated as a frigate.

I'm guessing by the time I get to designing them my battleships will be in the 25-30k range.

[Erik L]

There's really two "schools" of thought on classification of ship hulls.

1. Classification by size. Most of us came from a SFB or Starfire background where the ships were classed this way.
2. Classification by function. This is more "realistic" but also the smaller following.

[Theodidactus]

Cruisers gotta cruise

[boggo2300]

There's really two "schools" of thought on classification of ship hulls.

1. Classification by size. Most of us came from a SFB or Starfire background where the ships were classed this way.
2. Classification by function. This is more "realistic" but also the smaller following.

Just to be difficult,  I came through SFB & Starfire,  but I still tend to classify through function,  though of late I don't use wet warship types very often,  I have Scouts (SC) Patrol vessels (PV), Escort Vessels (EV), Missile Combatants (MC), Laser Combatants (LC), Kinetic Combatants (KC) (which are gauss/railgun jobbies)  though I still call fighters fighters, carriers I usually call Motherships (MS),  I also have Jump and Leader versions of a lot of those (J in front of designator for Jump, and L following the designator for Leaders), so for example a line of battle Jump drive and sensor/flagbridge equipped laser armed ship would be  a Jump, Laser Combatant Leader (JLCL)

I think I just got sick of Destroyers in SPAAAAACE!

Matt

PS: I rarely build Plasma Carronade, Microwave etc armed ships, but you could probably extrapolate what I'd call them pretty easily

[Maltay]

Per my earlier promise this is the Ship Designation System (SDS) I use.  It is a constant work in progress.  I have 1.5 pages of notes for my next revision.

- Commissioned
    - BB - Battleship
        - Larger than a Cruiser (CC)
        - Intended to provide offense as part of a Task Group (TG)
       
    - BC - Battlecruiser
        - Variant of a BB
        - Trades defense for speed
        - Intended to provide offence as part of a TG
        - Intended to raid enemies due to speed
       
    - BM - Monitor
        - Variant of a BB
        - Trades range and speed for defense and offense
        - Intended to defend choke points due to defense and offense
       
    - BN - Dreadnought
        - Variant of a BB
        - Trades speed for defense
        - Intended to provide offense against enemy choke points as part of a TG due to defense
   
    - CC - Cruiser
        - Smaller than a BB and larger than a Destroyer (DD)
        - Intended to independently protect auxiliaries and civilian vessels
        - Intended to independently raid enemies
        - Intended to independently scout
        - Intended to provide offense when part of a TG
       
    - CH - Heavy Cruiser
        - Variant of a CC
        - Trades speed for defense
        - Intended to independently protect auxiliaries and civilian vessels
        - Intended to provide both offense and protection when part of a TG due to defense
   
    - CL - Light Cruiser
        - Variant of a CC
        - Trades defense for range
        - Intended to independently raid behind enemy lines enemies due to range
        - Intended to independently scout behind enemy lines due to range
        - Intended to provide offense when part of a TG
       
    - CS - Command Cruiser
        - Variant of a CC
        - Trades offense for sensors
        - Intended to lead a TG due to sensors

    - CV - Corvette
        - Smaller than a Frigate (FF) and larger than a Patrol Craft (PC)
        - Trades offense for speed
        - Intended to independently patrol star systems and provide early warning by detecting enemy attacks due to speed
   
    - DD - Destroyer
        - Smaller than a CC and larger than a FF
        - Unsuited for independent action
        - Intended to operate in groups to protect TGs from enemy parasites
        - Intended to operate in groups to protect Auxiliaries and civilian vessels from enemy parasites
   
    - DE - Destroyer Escort
        - Variant of DD
        - Unsuited for independent action
        - Intended to operate in groups to protect TGs from enemy munitions
        - Intended to operate in groups to protect auxiliaries and civilian vessels from enemy munitions

    - FF - Frigate
        - Smaller than a DD and larger than a CV
        - Unsuited for independent action
        - Intended to operate in groups to delay, deter, or disrupt enemy raids
        - Intended to operate in groups to thwart enemy scouts
        - Intended to operate in groups to detect and expose stealthed enemies
 
    - LC - Landing Craft
        - Roughly the size of a PC
        - Carried as a military parasite on a Landing Platform (LP)
        - Intended to land ground forces on enemy Planetary Bodies (PBs)
       
    - LD - Landing Defense
        - Variant of an LC
        - Carried as a military parasite on an LP
        - Intended to protect LCs
       
    - LP - Landing Platform
        - Roughly the size of a CC
        - Usually escorted by a TG for protection
        - Mobile hanger with facilities to carry, deploy, recover, and replenish ground forces and military parasites
        - Intended to carry LCs and LDs to land ground forces on enemy PBs
 
    - MC - Mine Countermeasure
        - Intended to clear enemy minefields
        - Intended to hunt and destroy individual enemy mines
       
    - ML - Minelayer
        - Intended to create minefields
        - Intended to lay individual mines to disrupt enemy activities
 
    - PC - Patrol Craft
        - Smaller than a CV
        - Unsuited for independent action
        - Trades defense and range for offense
        - Intended to operate in groups in close proximity to PBs due to range
        - Intended to operate in groups to delay, deter, or disrupt enemy attacks until additional defenses can respond
        - Intended to operate in groups to threaten large enemy vessels due to offense
   
    - VC - Vessel Carrier
        - Roughly the size of a BB
        - Usually escorted by a TG for protection
        - Mobile hanger with facilities to carry, deploy, recover, and replenish military parasites
        - Intended to carry military parasites and project force into star systems
       
    - VE - Escort Carrier
        - Variant of a VC
        - Roughly the size of a CC
        - Usually escorted by a TG for protection
        - Mobile hanger with facilities to carry, deploy, recover, and replenish auxiliary parasites
        - Intended to carry auxiliary parasites and support military parasites
       
    - VL - Light Carrier
        - Variant of a VC
        - Roughly the size of a CC
        - Usually escorted by a TG for protection
        - Mobile hanger with facilities to carry, deploy, recover, and replenish military parasites
        - Intended to carry military parasites and project force into star systems

- Auxiliaries
    - AA - Ammunition Auxiliary
        - Intended to replenish ammunition in TGs
       
    - AB - Buoy Auxiliary
        - Intended to deploy buoys
   
    - AF - Fuel Auxiliary
        - Intended to replenish fuel in TGs
   
    - AH - Hospital Auxiliary
        - Intended to recover life pods
   
    - AM - Maintenance Auxiliary
        - Intended to replenish maintenance in TGs
   
    - AP - Pinnace Auxiliary
        - Intended to transport leaders and teams
   
    - AS - Salvage Auxiliary
        - Intended to salvage wrecks
   
    - GE - Geographic Survey
        - Intended to perform geographic surveys of PBs
       
    - GR - Gravitational Survey
        - Intended to perform gravitational surveys of star systems
   
    - RD - Destroyer Tender
        - Intended to replenish DDs
        - Intended to allow extended deployment of groups of DDs
   
    - RP - Patrol Craft Tender
        - Intended to replenish PCs
        - Intended to allow extended deployment of groups of PCs

    - TT - Transport
        - Intended to transport ground forces
        - Intended to replenish ground forces on LPs

[Vandermeer (OP)]

I wanted my setting to feel more like 1700s-1800s colonial politics than "world war II in space" which is what most people do. I read a lot of Horatio Hornblower and The baroque cycle. My fleets are fast and short ranged and very slow firing and emphasize single devastating broadsides.

I love those classical heavy broadside battles of the colonial times. This is one thing that really converted me in the Warhammer 40k world. Normally I am all for the graze and the noble they put into Star Trek designs, but this sluggish heaviness makes everything just so much more ..important. Impacting.

The ships you built there are still in the pattern though. By size I mean, the outfit with slow loading cannons is quite an original concept. Great that you played more for style instead of efficiency.

As far as I know, this is the only place where detailed and consistent posts are made for Aurora. I know Bay12 and a couple of other places had some AARs posted.

Mhm, I don't even remember where I found all the other games. I stumbled about a couple of sites when I researched Aurora over Google in my beginnings. I found at least one x-hundred pages thread where alot of people talked about it, but otherwise only singular game documentations on unspecialized sites.

@Jaque_Thay: So you found this measurement by yourself? Probably it is hard-coded into the human race genome, and only some mutations think of other things first.

@Maltay: Well, I can't wait to see the true size ratios. The Landing Platform as a narrow orbiter to send planetary assault shuttles is a really interesting idea. I can see it in front of my eyes.^^

There's really two "schools" of thought on classification of ship hulls.

1. Classification by size. Most of us came from a SFB or Starfire background where the ships were classed this way.
2. Classification by function. This is more "realistic" but also the smaller following.

Aha, I didn't see the Starfire thing yet. It can not explain it all, but definitely the strong roots.

A question: If I wanted to document a game (more for show and with story etc.), where do I put it here? There is the fiction section, but it seems rather enclosed.

[Theodidactus]

I love those classical heavy broadside battles of the colonial times. This is one thing that really converted me in the Warhammer 40k world. Normally I am all for the graze and the noble they put into Star Trek designs, but this sluggish heaviness makes everything just so much more ..important. Impacting.

The ships you built there are still in the pattern though. By size I mean, the outfit with slow loading cannons is quite an original concept.

Long nine naval cannons were the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the "reduced size laser" option. After that, I knew what direction my setting would take.

I also liked how special ships were back then. Most colonial superpowers had between 50 and 100 ships in the age of the sail, for like, the whole planet. Captaining a cruiser was a huge deal. I primarily got into aurora because few other games accommodated the way I felt a space opera space navy should work. They go more for the WWII in space vibe I was talking about. Aurora makes space feel bigger and lonlier and slower, so more like ships during the age of the sail. Also each ship has a lot more detail about it so you can run a fleet of 15 ships and still feel like you're controlling this big complex thing.

My ships are mostly in the pattern. you'll notice my "Pride of Bangalore" cruisers are the same size as my destroyers, which are both about 3 times the size of my frigates....but I also have cruisers that are 25,000 tons, the same size as my "battlecruisers", all of which are only about 5,000 tons lighter than my carriers.

It's hard to deviate from the norm when you're talking about ships under 30,000 tons. As we addressed earlier, there are seldom any reasons why you'd want one 50,000 ton ship instead of 2 25,000 ton ships.

I should add that I plan to design a lot of new ships sometime in the next few days. This has become a necessity since several forum members destroyed a sizable part of both my largest fleets.

Great that you played more for style instead of efficiency.

been hearing that all my life. It results in many friends but low wages.

Per my earlier promise this is the Ship Designation System (SDS) I use.  It is a constant work in progress.  I have 1.5 pages of notes for my next revision.

aaaand this is why aurora is my favorite game ever.

[NihilRex]

I think the current "Cruiser\DD\Etc" sizes most people use are more gameplay than realism based.

My Survey Frigates, the Astronomer class, at 15k tons, take almost 2 years to construct.  That seems about right for a smallish capital ship.  Same for my Destroyers at the same size.

A BB Gettysburg, at 61ktons takes closer to 5years.  Again, realistic.  If making one of those took 6months, Id be worried that the design was too weak.

[OAM47]

Perhaps a bit late to the party, but this is a topic that always fascinates me, partially because I tend to build ships on the small size I've found out.  I swear I remember a similar thread to this a year or two ago, maybe even a thread I started, that had some great info.  Maybe I'll see if I can dig it up later.

But anywho, I'd just like to chime in that not only do I designate by function, but a good 75% of the time my "escorts" are larger than my mainline combatants.  

Basic Battle Fleet Layout:

1-2 Command Ship (15k-ish psudo-capital ship, sometimes unarmed, sometimes minimal missile defense.  Basically large sensor and jump tender)
6-10 Missile Cruiser (8-9k-ish capital ship, exclusively ASM launchers.  May or may not have emergency sensors for if the CC is hit)
6-10 (Escort) Destroyer (8-9k-ish screening vessel, beam armed defense, frequently with emergency sensors, used for both missile defense and close ranged engagements (and as such, frequently has a 'main gun' that's a bit larger than the turrets))

Optional Ship Types:

Missile Escort (Destroyers) (12k-ish screening vessel, AMM armed ship, frequently with backup sensors, built in numbers equal to beam escorts)
Monitor/Cruiser/Battlecruiser (8k-ish capital ship, multipurpose beam offense ship, name depends on if it's intended for JP defense/independent operations/fleet support, has sensors for offense but generally lacks missile defense beyond CIWS if that)

[GodEmperor]

I always divide my warships in two categories :

Escorts :
 
DD - Destroyer - small weak ship designed to be used as a system defense in huge numbers
CL - Light Cruiser - bigger version of DD, primarily used for Anti-Missile defense
CA - Heavy Cruiser - similar to CL but with minimal Anti-missile defenses and with more ASM launchers

Capital Ships :
Usually they are designed to have far more range ( as in fuel ) and with shields and ECM's.

BC - Battlecruiser - large version of CL
BB - Battleship - large version of CA
DR - Dreadnought - large version of BC
SDR - Superdreadnought - large version of BB
and sometimes

MN - Monitor - huge and costly as frakk but "selfsufficient"

Utility ships:

MSS - Military support ship - mixed collier/tanker with civilian engines and almost no weapons but decent amount of armour/AMM's.
EX - Exploration ship - exactly what it sounds like - civi engines, some basic weaponry, grav/geo sensors.

Adding to that
 
Civilian Fleet :
Standart colony ship
standart cargo ship with Troop transports ( i dont make dedicated military troopships )
Terraformers
Salvager with tractor beam and salvage module, spare crew quarters ( for picking lifepods ).
 
and again sometimes i roleplay and built huge "astro Stations" with biggest active sensors possible, troop modules ( on-board marines ), hangar decks for small fighter/corvette/FAC sized ships ( Customs Police ) and tow them to JP's/various places around systems to feel somewhat like playing game in Honorverse ( ACS 4 lyfe )

Oh and i dont bother myself with Carriers ... too much micromanaging ( good salvo and 1 fighter wings suddenly divides into 5 parts coz they had various engine hits, fuel tanks etc ).

[Bremen]

Ever since the engine overhaul, I've pretty much based my classes around the new engines. Fuel efficiency is a big thing now, so I almost always use 50 HS engines, which sets a lower bound on practical full warships at around 6000 tons. This is a bit of emergent gameplay, so might be one reason why there's some standardization between different players.

Beyond that, I divide by a combination of size and purpose. Frigates and Destroyers are both single engine craft, for instance; frigates are designed as support/point defense ships, destroyers are dedicated fast combatants. So a destroyer might well be smaller than a frigate to give it the extra speed on a single engine, and have a spinal laser or large missile tubes; a frigate would be designed to keep pace with larger vessels, so have less speed but some sort of turreted PD or anti-missile tubes. A larger multi-engine version of the destroyer (fast, no frills anti-ship vessel) might be called a battlecruiser, whereas a slower general purpose vessel would be a heavy cruiser.

[Vandermeer (OP)]

Ever since the engine overhaul, I've pretty much based my classes around the new engines. Fuel efficiency is a big thing now, so I almost always use 50 HS engines, which sets a lower bound on practical full warships at around 6000 tons. This is a bit of emergent gameplay, so might be one reason why there's some standardization between different players.

There is "a bit", and then there is everyone!.
I see this, and talked about it quite in the beginning above why this makes sense. ...But who cares? This is Sci-Fi. The "Fi" stands for fiction. ...Do what you want!

..At least someone should do it.