Aurora 4x
Fiction => C# Test Campaigns => Steve's Fiction => Aurora => Space 1889 => Topic started by: Steve Walmsley on March 07, 2020, 08:59:06 AM
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Comments in this thread please.
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You scrapped the Battlestar Galactica run? Aw chucks.
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You scrapped the Battlestar Galactica run? Aw chucks.
I still have the game saved and it was fun - just too complex when I needed to test things relatively quickly. I may go back to it.
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I'm a little sad to see 20cm, 12cm, and 10cm guns in the Royal Navy -- instead of 8-inch, 5-inch, and 4-inch guns.
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Apparently the Royal Navy of 1889 doesn't believe in (or lacks the technology for) AuxCon, main engineering, and CIC since every ship from the mighty Majestics down to the lowliest auxilliary is Bridge-only for control spaces.
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CS Pelorus class Survey Cruiser
CS Athena class Colony Ship
Looks like the Deputy First Sea Lord wasn't talking to the Fourth Sea Lord in sufficient detail.
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Apparently the Royal Navy of 1889 doesn't believe in (or lacks the technology for) AuxCon, main engineering, and CIC since every ship from the mighty Majestics down to the lowliest auxilliary is Bridge-only for control spaces.
Yes, it was very tight on the available starting research, so I sacrificed missiles, turrets, engine boosts, etc. I will add the control stations as I go.
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I'm a little sad to see 20cm, 12cm, and 10cm guns in the Royal Navy -- instead of 8-inch, 5-inch, and 4-inch guns.
Excellent point! I will make the changes :)
EDIT: Weapons now all have calibres in inches - good suggestion.
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CS Pelorus class Survey Cruiser
CS Athena class Colony Ship
Looks like the Deputy First Sea Lord wasn't talking to the Fourth Sea Lord in sufficient detail.
The Pelorus is an class of third class cruisers from the period (from my bible for campaigns in this era - Conway's All the World Fighting Ships 1860 - 1905). All the commercial vessels have Greek mythology class names, as there is no direct reference but naming ships after figures from Greek mythology was common in the Royal Navy at the time.
BTW There was no Deputy First Sea Lord until 1917 :)
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BTW There was no Deputy First Sea Lord until 1917 :)
#:-] Yeah, I realized that too late. I was going to comment on the lack of Welsh Guards until I looked it up and realized they won't be founded for another 16 years.
The Pelorus is an class of third class cruisers from the period (from my bible for campaigns in this era - Conway's All the World Fighting Ships 1860 - 1905). All the commercial vessels have Greek mythology class names, as there is no direct reference but naming ships after figures from Greek mythology was common in the Royal Navy at the time.
I meant the (1889) Royal Navy is using the designation 'CS' for both 'survey cruiser' and 'cargo ship'.
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BTW There was no Deputy First Sea Lord until 1917 :)
#:-] Yeah, I realized that too late. I was going to comment on the lack of Welsh Guards until I looked it up and realized they won't be founded for another 16 years.
The Pelorus is an class of third class cruisers from the period (from my bible for campaigns in this era - Conway's All the World Fighting Ships 1860 - 1905). All the commercial vessels have Greek mythology class names, as there is no direct reference but naming ships after figures from Greek mythology was common in the Royal Navy at the time.
I meant the (1889) Royal Navy is using the designation 'CS' for both 'survey cruiser' and 'cargo ship'.
Ah good point!
I'll fix that.
BTW I am using a regimental list from 1881 so there may have been some changes before 1889.
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Steve, I'm slightly confused - adding up the volumes of the components on the Royal Navy ships, it appears they're using ceramic composite armour, with a rating of 10, but the British Army units only have armour rating 8. Am I missing something here?
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Steve, I'm slightly confused - adding up the volumes of the components on the Royal Navy ships, it appears they're using ceramic composite armour, with a rating of 10, but the British Army units only have armour rating 8. Am I missing something here?
No, they are using composite. Can you give me an example of where the calculation looks odd?
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Steve, I'm slightly confused - adding up the volumes of the components on the Royal Navy ships, it appears they're using ceramic composite armour, with a rating of 10, but the British Army units only have armour rating 8. Am I missing something here?
No, they are using composite. Can you give me an example of where the calculation looks odd?
I ran the numbers for the batleships and the Edgar class Protected Cruiser. For the Edgar, the armour should occupy 850 dT to fit the tonnage, accounting for everything else.
3,000 dT engines + 353 dT fuel + 50 dT control + 500 dT crew + 200 dT engineering + 250 dT BFCs +265 dT sensors + 1,550 dT weapons + 500 dT reactors = ~6,650 dT, which leaves 850 dT for the armour. I assume you have EM and thermal strength 5 and active sensor strength 12?
(34*5)/(17 HS) = 10
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Steve, I'm slightly confused - adding up the volumes of the components on the Royal Navy ships, it appears they're using ceramic composite armour, with a rating of 10, but the British Army units only have armour rating 8. Am I missing something here?
No, they are using composite. Can you give me an example of where the calculation looks odd?
I ran the numbers for the batleships and the Edgar class Protected Cruiser. For the Edgar, the armour should occupy 850 dT to fit the tonnage, accounting for everything else.
3,000 dT engines + 353 dT fuel + 50 dT control + 500 dT crew + 200 dT engineering + 250 dT BFCs +265 dT sensors + 1,550 dT weapons + 500 dT reactors = ~6,650 dT, which leaves 850 dT for the armour. I assume you have EM and thermal strength 5 and active sensor strength 12?
(34*5)/(17 HS) = 10
(http://www.pentarch.org/steve/Screenshots/Crusade/Edgar.PNG)
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(http://www.pentarch.org/steve/Screenshots/Crusade/Edgar.PNG)
There are two R15 reactors for a total of 4.8 HS. That doesn't look right. If each reactor is 2.4 HS, with 4 power per HS, they should generate SQRT(2.4/10)*4*2.4 =4.70 power, not 15. For 15 power, you need ~5 HS reactors, for a total of 10 HS. Maybe they're only getting counted once?
Unless there's some change I've missed.
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Power plant changes:
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg102707;topicseen#msg102707
Helps improve energy weapons vs missiles.
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Nevermind, I'm an idiot. I thought 10 HS reactors produced 100% of their baseline power rating per HS, but it looks like it's actually 1 HS. Sorry. :-\
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Nevermind, I'm an idiot. I thought 10 HS reactors produced 100% of their baseline power rating per HS, but it looks like it's actually 1 HS. Sorry. :-\
No problem. You were probably confusing reactors with shields.
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Here we go! So a 10-year truce to begin with, before the dogs of war are unleashed.
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Here we go! So a 10-year truce to begin with, before the dogs of war are unleashed.
I hope. Last time I tried a similar setup with a multiple NPRs in Sol, one Sol NPR shot at an alien NPR and the alien was destroyed before the missile arrived, so the missile re targeted itself and struck a second Sol NPR. Chaos ensued :)
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I take it all the factions other than the British are NPRs?
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I take it all the factions other than the British are NPRs?
Yes, all NPRs. I need to test Diplomacy so I thought this setup would test everything :)
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Here we go! So a 10-year truce to begin with, before the dogs of war are unleashed.
I hope. Last time I tried a similar setup with a multiple NPRs in Sol, one Sol NPR shot at an alien NPR and the alien was destroyed before the missile arrived, so the missile re targeted itself and struck a second Sol NPR. Chaos ensued :)
Hahaha, yeah I remember that game. Sol was such a massive battlefield!
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Oh, the poor
Chinese Martians.
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R U L E B R I T A N N I A
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Looking good so far ;D
A small question. You wrote:
"British scientists believe that planets such as Groombridge-B I can be ‘terraformed’, although the technology required to do so is not currently a scientific priority. In any event, the companion star is so distant that a colony would not be practicable. The fifth planet of the companion is a superjovian and therefore has a Lagrange Point but no matching point exists in the primary system."
I assume that's just until you send a stabilization ship and create that lagrange point, right? :P
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Looking good so far ;D
A small question. You wrote:
"British scientists believe that planets such as Groombridge-B I can be ‘terraformed’, although the technology required to do so is not currently a scientific priority. In any event, the companion star is so distant that a colony would not be practicable. The fifth planet of the companion is a superjovian and therefore has a Lagrange Point but no matching point exists in the primary system."
I assume that's just until you send a stabilization ship and create that lagrange point, right? :P
Yes, I can do that, although the system is 10 GY old so minerals are scarce. The survey of the primary's planets yielded very little.
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Steve,
With multiple recess sending jump stabilization ships to the same jump points, do they work cumulatively to stabilize the jump point or is it effectively a race based on each ships arrival time and quality of component?
If they contributed points towards the stabilization they could help each other vs. there being no net before for the presence of multiple stabilizers.
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Currently it's a race (i.e. every ship after the first is wasted. . . unless its CO has a big enough bonus to overcome the head start).
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Personally, I don't think 'multiple stabilization ships working together reduce the time required to stabilize' is a good idea.
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Currently it's a race (i.e. every ship after the first is wasted. . . unless its CO has a big enough bonus to overcome the head start).
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Personally, I don't think 'multiple stabilization ships working together reduce the time required to stabilize' is a good idea.
I am fine with it as a race. I could not find anything while using my phone to say one way or the other.
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They all operate independently.
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Hello Steve, are you happy with how the AI is looking so far?
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Hello Steve, are you happy with how the AI is looking so far?
In general, yes, although full diplomacy not tested yet. Seems much better than VB6 and does a lot more.
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So with the fancy title of the prime minister has titles been added? Or was that flair? ;D
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So with the fancy title of the prime minister has titles been added? Or was that flair? ;D
That was the actual prime minister at that point in history. There is no specific titles mechanics, although I have used an actual officer of the time, Sir Arthur Hood, and just included his title as part of his name.
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I am dieing to know how is the performance now vs then?
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I am dieing to know how is the performance now vs then?
This was my last performance update
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=10096.msg117578;topicseen#msg117578
This current campaign has 5 races in Sol (so each race detecting ships from 4 other races) and it hasn't noticeably slowed the game.
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The other nations are SLIGHTLY more armed it seems ;D ;D ;D ;D
Interesting times ahead!
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19th December 1890
The 33,300-ton Kolga class ships of the Hegemony of Titan move into in orbit of the Roanoke colony on Alpha Centauri-B III. They are apparently terraforming ships as a trace atmosphere of oxygen is forming on the previously airless body. While that appears to be good news, the surface temperature on Titan is -44C, so if the Hegemony really intends to terraform the planet, they will presumably reduce the temperature from the current 7C.
Are we about to see battling terraformers? Does the AI need updated with code to handle competing colonies trying to move the temperature in opposite directions? Is the intent to leave it to see what current Aurora will do and whether this will start a war one day?
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Why does the AI like to send large fleets to orbit player colonies?
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Why does the AI like to send large fleets to orbit player colonies?
I think they're orbiting their own colonies on the same rocks. There's only so much good real estate to go around.
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19th December 1890
The 33,300-ton Kolga class ships of the Hegemony of Titan move into in orbit of the Roanoke colony on Alpha Centauri-B III. They are apparently terraforming ships as a trace atmosphere of oxygen is forming on the previously airless body. While that appears to be good news, the surface temperature on Titan is -44C, so if the Hegemony really intends to terraform the planet, they will presumably reduce the temperature from the current 7C.
Are we about to see battling terraformers? Does the AI need updated with code to handle competing colonies trying to move the temperature in opposite directions? Is the intent to leave it to see what current Aurora will do and whether this will start a war one day?
As the code stands, terraformers will compete with each other, which could lead to some interesting climate changes :)
There is no diplomatic penalty for this at the moment, but I think that might be needed.
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Why does the AI like to send large fleets to orbit player colonies?
There are four colonies on the same planet, only one of which is player owned. The AI is sending a fleet to what the AI regards as its own important colony (actually now two fleets because a Hegemony fleet just arrived as well).
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Awesome. So a point-blank engagement is likely once hostilities break out.
Is the AI smart enough to garrison ground troops on contested colonies?
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Awesome. So a point-blank engagement is likely once hostilities break out.
Is the AI smart enough to garrison ground troops on contested colonies?
Yes :)
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Awesome. So a point-blank engagement is likely once hostilities break out.
Is the AI smart enough to garrison ground troops on contested colonies?
Yes :)
Steve AI is probably smarter than the ones in many commercial games... ;D To achieve that, you need (1) some decent strategy skills, (2) motivation (3) time, it seems our Ellan-Vanniner (how do you call the inhabitants of the Isle?) has these 3!
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How do you call the inhabitants of the Isle?
The inhabitants are the Manx.
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Do you suspect there might be a bug in how the NPRs are handling their economies, or are they just that good at it?
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Do you suspect there might be a bug in how the NPRs are handling their economies, or are they just that good at it?
NPRs generally start with more fleet build points than the the player, so the starting fleets are larger. However, they are a lot better at managing their economies than in VB6.
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19th December 1890
The 33,300-ton Kolga class ships of the Hegemony of Titan move into in orbit of the Roanoke colony on Alpha Centauri-B III. They are apparently terraforming ships as a trace atmosphere of oxygen is forming on the previously airless body. While that appears to be good news, the surface temperature on Titan is -44C, so if the Hegemony really intends to terraform the planet, they will presumably reduce the temperature from the current 7C.
Are we about to see battling terraformers? Does the AI need updated with code to handle competing colonies trying to move the temperature in opposite directions? Is the intent to leave it to see what current Aurora will do and whether this will start a war one day?
As the code stands, terraformers will compete with each other, which could lead to some interesting climate changes :)
There is no diplomatic penalty for this at the moment, but I think that might be needed.
That should be relatively easy. Wouldn't it be enough to have the AI automatically set any body they're terraforming as their own, and then add a penalty for terraforming somebody else's moon/planet/asteroid?
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19th December 1890
The 33,300-ton Kolga class ships of the Hegemony of Titan move into in orbit of the Roanoke colony on Alpha Centauri-B III. They are apparently terraforming ships as a trace atmosphere of oxygen is forming on the previously airless body. While that appears to be good news, the surface temperature on Titan is -44C, so if the Hegemony really intends to terraform the planet, they will presumably reduce the temperature from the current 7C.
Are we about to see battling terraformers? Does the AI need updated with code to handle competing colonies trying to move the temperature in opposite directions? Is the intent to leave it to see what current Aurora will do and whether this will start a war one day?
As the code stands, terraformers will compete with each other, which could lead to some interesting climate changes :)
There is no diplomatic penalty for this at the moment, but I think that might be needed.
That should be relatively easy. Wouldn't it be enough to have the AI automatically set any body they're terraforming as their own, and then add a penalty for terraforming somebody else's moon/planet/asteroid?
There are a lot of different factors involved in the AI deciding how important a planet or system is and whether they are prepared to fight over it. See the various diplomatic posts in the changes thread. Also, some other race terraforming might be helpful rather than threatening.
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16th August 1891
White Star Lines launches ... a liner.
Well, could you please check the trajectories of Mass Drivers, so nothing happens? ::)
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The Venusian fleet includes five 25,603-ton Yuan class battleships, three 17,078-ton Chakhar class battleships, three 17,071-ton class Timurad class battleships, two 17,050-ton Mughal class battleships, three 8,541-ton Hazara class protected cruisers and two 8,509-ton Mughal class protected cruisers. The Royal Navy squadron in Jamestown orbit comprises the Apollo class second class cruisers HMS Andromache and HMS Indefatigable, each of 3,750 tons.
Well, that's not at all a confusing designation by naval intelligence.
Good call on reducing the truce timer. Let's see some fireworks!
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The Venusian fleet includes five 25,603-ton Yuan class battleships, three 17,078-ton Chakhar class battleships, three 17,071-ton class Timurad class battleships, two 17,050-ton Mughal class battleships, three 8,541-ton Hazara class protected cruisers and two 8,509-ton Mughal class protected cruisers. The Royal Navy squadron in Jamestown orbit comprises the Apollo class second class cruisers HMS Andromache and HMS Indefatigable, each of 3,750 tons.
Well, that's not at all a confusing designation by naval intelligence.
Good call on reducing the truce timer. Let's see some fireworks!
Ah good spot! It's a typo - the cruisers are Manchu class - I'll update the text.
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How well is the AI handling maintenance for these big fleets? Is it building and exporting enough Maintenance Facilities (to Roanoke, for example)? Are we going to see the Matians, Venusians, and Titans rushing their ships home for overhaul in two or three years?
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How well is the AI handling maintenance for these big fleets? Is it building and exporting enough Maintenance Facilities (to Roanoke, for example)? Are we going to see the Matians, Venusians, and Titans rushing their ships home for overhaul in two or three years?
The AI is handling fuel but not maintenance (yet).
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I have a question Steve. I don't think it has been answered yet, I apologize if I am wrong. Although you do not detail everything (of course, this is sort of a "speed run), the AI seems to be very aggressive in stabilizing jump points.
As a very cautious player, I've always been extremely wary when stabilizing jump points. I only stabilize what is strictly needed. Does the AI have criterias for choosing what to stabilize? Will it only stabilize jp which leads to "valuable" systems? Or will it stabilize everything?
I personally hope it's the former, as I get ULTRA paranoid when I see all the jump points close to my space being stabilized. I consider jump point defense as one of my main ways to protect myself, and mass stabilization really hampers that... And a stabilized jump point can NEVER be destabilized, so....
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How is determined by the AI if a planet should be invaded or glassed? I'm not too fond of seeing AIs wreck planets admittedly...
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Does the AI have criterias for choosing what to stabilize?
In VB Aurora, pretty much every jump point it wants to use.
Will it only stabilize jp which leads to "valuable" systems?
In VB Aurora, all of them between inhabited systems, all of them between want-to-inhabit systems, all of them that their battelfleet wants to use.
Or will it stabilize everything?
In VB Aurora, pretty much.
Commercial shipping lines want to use jump gates. NPRs will agressively and incessantly attempt to build them anywhere and everywhere they want to go (other than with only survey forces). My empires have gone to war with countless otherwise-peaceful neighbours by ruthlessly and repeatedly blowing up their gate-builders in my territory so as not to have pre-made invasion routes. It's a known hazard of the universe that every other space-capable race is in love with the damn things.
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I have a question Steve. I don't think it has been answered yet, I apologize if I am wrong. Although you do not detail everything (of course, this is sort of a "speed run), the AI seems to be very aggressive in stabilizing jump points.
As a very cautious player, I've always been extremely wary when stabilizing jump points. I only stabilize what is strictly needed. Does the AI have criterias for choosing what to stabilize? Will it only stabilize jp which leads to "valuable" systems? Or will it stabilize everything?
I personally hope it's the former, as I get ULTRA paranoid when I see all the jump points close to my space being stabilized. I consider jump point defense as one of my main ways to protect myself, and mass stabilization really hampers that... And a stabilized jump point can NEVER be destabilized, so....
At the moment, the AI will tend to stabilise most jump points because it needs those stable jump points for commercial traffic. In terms of jump points to 'valuable' systems, those systems may only become valuable if a large colony is established and that requires commercial access.
As I add more diverse NPR types, I will add NPRs that do not stabilise jump points. For the purposes of getting a release done though, the more diverse NPRs will have to wait for now.
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How is determined by the AI if a planet should be invaded or glassed? I'm not too fond of seeing AIs wreck planets admittedly...
The NPR will decide if a planet can be successfully invaded. If not, then they will deny it to the enemy if they can.
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How is determined by the AI if a planet should be invaded or glassed? I'm not too fond of seeing AIs wreck planets admittedly...
The NPR will decide if a planet can be successfully invaded. If not, then they will deny it to the enemy if they can.
Thanks. My question was also about the AI being able to project itself in the future or not (although most commercial AIs don't). If they can't invade a planet within say 2 years but the planet has an incredible potential (to them), should it bombard it to render it useless or should it postpone this decision and wait for a potential invasion?
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At the moment, the AI will tend to stabilise most jump points because it needs those stable jump points for commercial traffic. In terms of jump points to 'valuable' systems, those systems may only become valuable if a large colony is established and that requires commercial access.
As I add more diverse NPR types, I will add NPRs that do not stabilise jump points. For the purposes of getting a release done though, the more diverse NPRs will have to wait for now.
That's understandable, I too can't wait for a release so obviously I would never want to delay it for this :P
I am happy you're planning to add more NPR types eventually. In the meanwhile, it just means that ANYTHING I meet will die ;D No stinky aliens stabilizing my jump points.
Incidentally, it would be great to be able to destabilize a point, both for strategical reasons and for RP. Maybe make it require a stabilization ship, and take 3-4 times the time needed to stabilize it. Of course just an idea for the future.
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It would be nice in diplomacy to set a jump point to „don’t stabilize this one“ so foreign empires do know you would go to war if some jump stabilizer would begin working on that specific JP.
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It would be nice in diplomacy to set a jump point to „don’t stabilize this one“ so foreign empires do know you would go to war if some jump stabilizer would begin working on that specific JP.
Yes, that's a good idea. Not for launch but will add something on those lines.
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The campaign is progressing nicely :) I'm looking forward to some conflict, hopefully between NPRs exclusively at first. But on that note, shouldn't Roanoke colony and possibly Jamestown too get some planetary STO batteries for the extra defence? I'm interested how well they'll work against ships and Roanoke can become a very target-rich environment :) I'm also interested how effective the ELINT modules would be in gathering sensitive information about the different races capabilities. The forced non-aggression period seems perfect for gathering ELINT, any plans for that?
This last thing is kinda nitpicky, I'm not sure how you respond to those :) The Gauss turret is missing a comma in its tracking speed:
5" QF Ultraviolet Laser (6) Range 160,000km TS: 4,000 km/s Power 4-4 RM 40,000 km ROF 5
Twin 3" QF Gauss Cannon Turret (2x6) Range 10,000km TS: 16000 km/s Power 0-0 RM 10,000 km ROF 5
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This last thing is kinda nitpicky, I'm not sure how you respond to those :) The Gauss turret is missing a comma in its tracking speed:
5" QF Ultraviolet Laser (6) Range 160,000km TS: 4,000 km/s Power 4-4 RM 40,000 km ROF 5
Twin 3" QF Gauss Cannon Turret (2x6) Range 10,000km TS: 16000 km/s Power 0-0 RM 10,000 km ROF 5
Oh right, I have another question. Will c#aurora conform to the OS's standards? I'm looking especially at the decimal separators and digit group separators. Considering that half the world uses a . and the other half a , for decimal separator, and the other for digit group separator.
I imagine so, being a modern program, but I don't think it was written anywhere in the changelog so I'm asking
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The campaign is progressing nicely :) I'm looking forward to some conflict, hopefully between NPRs exclusively at first. But on that note, shouldn't Roanoke colony and possibly Jamestown too get some planetary STO batteries for the extra defence? I'm interested how well they'll work against ships and Roanoke can become a very target-rich environment :) I'm also interested how effective the ELINT modules would be in gathering sensitive information about the different races capabilities. The forced non-aggression period seems perfect for gathering ELINT, any plans for that?
This last thing is kinda nitpicky, I'm not sure how you respond to those :) The Gauss turret is missing a comma in its tracking speed:
5" QF Ultraviolet Laser (6) Range 160,000km TS: 4,000 km/s Power 4-4 RM 40,000 km ROF 5
Twin 3" QF Gauss Cannon Turret (2x6) Range 10,000km TS: 16000 km/s Power 0-0 RM 10,000 km ROF 5
ELINT ship is already in the next update.
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This last thing is kinda nitpicky, I'm not sure how you respond to those :) The Gauss turret is missing a comma in its tracking speed:
5" QF Ultraviolet Laser (6) Range 160,000km TS: 4,000 km/s Power 4-4 RM 40,000 km ROF 5
Twin 3" QF Gauss Cannon Turret (2x6) Range 10,000km TS: 16000 km/s Power 0-0 RM 10,000 km ROF 5
Oh right, I have another question. Will c#aurora conform to the OS's standards? I'm looking especially at the decimal separators and digit group separators. Considering that half the world uses a . and the other half a , for decimal separator, and the other for digit group separator.
I imagine so, being a modern program, but I don't think it was written anywhere in the changelog so I'm asking
I haven't done anything explicit with decimal separators.
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Another question! ;D
Like the "battlin' terraformers" mentioned earlier, will also NPRs ignore any radiation or dust kicked up on a planet with one of their colonies? Eg, if you carpet nuke an enemy NPR (Martian) colony on a planet that also has a neutral NPR (Titan) colony, will you take a diplo hit with the Titans due to the radiation and dust increase?
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Incidentally, it would be great to be able to destabilize a point, both for strategical reasons and for RP.
Use SpaceMaster.
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The reason Jump Gates turned into Stabilized Jump Points was so that people would stop asking to be able to destroy them.
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Another question! ;D
Like the "battlin' terraformers" mentioned earlier, will also NPRs ignore any radiation or dust kicked up on a planet with one of their colonies? Eg, if you carpet nuke an enemy NPR (Martian) colony on a planet that also has a neutral NPR (Titan) colony, will you take a diplo hit with the Titans due to the radiation and dust increase?
Not now, but potential idea. The tricky part would be the NPR assessing the likely reaction of neutral parties and using that to influence the original decision.
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Awesome! But on the Leander class, shouldn't the sensor line read (5,5,0,0) if the ELINT counts as EM5?
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That's going to be one hell of a knife-fight in a phone booth at Alpha Centuri B-III once the war starts.
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Awesome! But on the Leander class, shouldn't the sensor line read (5,5,0,0) if the ELINT counts as EM5?
Very good spot. Yes, it should. I'll fix that bug.
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That's some Cold War you got going out there Steve, all that's missing is Turkey Missile Crisis: Aurora Boogaloo and you're all set for mother of all showdowns.
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I'm not sure whether to hope to see everything go up in nuclear fire, or to see Steve somehow manage to keep a fragile peace together because the new NPRs and new diplomacy system actually allow that.
Probably somewhere in the middle, where two or three factions form and go after each other but leave intra-faction warfare for later. That would be awesome.
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29th December 1893
As diplomacy will be even more important in the coming months and years, a small diplomatic station, Babylon One, has been constructed in Earth orbit.
"A final refuge for dreams... and our last, best hope for peace."
AI: Target the Babylon One first!
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With the end of the non-aggression pact only two weeks away, the British government decides to begin withdrawing installations and forces from Alpha Centauri. While there are numerous suitable mining sites, especially at Roanoke, the large number of warships in close proximity makes this a very dangerous system.
Ah yes, Operation Croatoan
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So, aside from the Solarian powers, things have been rather quiet in this universe - is that on purpose, or have the rolls just not given us any alien encounters yet?
Also, since we have yet to see them in any of your games so far... are we actually sure that the generation code for the Orks is working?
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So, aside from the Solarian powers, things have been rather quiet in this universe - is that on purpose, or have the rolls just not given us any alien encounters yet?
Also, since we have yet to see them in any of your games so far... are we actually sure that the generation code for the Orks is working?
No action so far, although that was very likely given the truce was in effect.
C# has much lower generation chances for spoilers in first 10-20 systems.
Orks not appeared yet but due to lack of suitable planets rather than RNG issues. I may increase their environmental tolerances (again) :)
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Tensions do seem to be rising. Im rather worried about the apparent battleship imbalance.
I really do love reading these AARs, keep it up Steve!
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I wonder when the NPRs will be staking claims ;D
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Aeolis will blow up any moment now, I'm sure of it! ;D
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Yes interesting progress. Given the limited number of available routes out of Sol it looks like the NPRs are not putting too much value on expansion options otherwise I would have thought they would be against claims that create more bottle necks.
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Aeolis will blow up any moment now, I'm sure of it! ;D
That is the one that worries me - plus the Jovian have several small colonies in Thebes so a claim from them on that system is likely to be a matter of time. I don't want to be cut off from my colonies - although I might be able to sneak through Aeolis without being spotted :)
This is adding a completely new dimension as I am creating colonies in systems purely for territorial claims and watching out for signs of potential NPR claims. In fact, I am seriously considering building actual patrol craft - fuel efficient with good sensors and designed to travel through lots of systems and monitor what is happening.
I still need to play through the situations when the NPRs start claiming systems, but I am encouraged by the game play so far, plus I will keep adding extra elements to Diplomacy post-release.
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Yes interesting progress. Given the limited number of available routes out of Sol it looks like the NPRs are not putting too much value on expansion options otherwise I would have thought they would be against claims that create more bottle necks.
They are checking on bottlenecks that cut them off from systems of value. When I claimed Sigma Draconis, the NPRs had nothing of value beyond that system.
Longer term I might add a consideration simply on number of systems cut-off, regardless of value.
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Yes interesting progress. Given the limited number of available routes out of Sol it looks like the NPRs are not putting too much value on expansion options otherwise I would have thought they would be against claims that create more bottle necks.
They are checking on bottlenecks that cut them off from systems of value. When I claimed Sigma Draconis, the NPRs had nothing of value beyond that system.
Longer term I might add a consideration simply on number of systems cut-off, regardless of value.
(Stating the obvious, but to put it on the screen: ) Of course, a simple check on the absolute number of known systems effectively claimed because the only known access is through a claimed system, while it would alter the perceived magnitude of what the claimant is demanding, doesn't really capture the threat aspect of what is given up in acceding to the claim. Possibly percentage of explored space, or of discovered jump chains that are believed to be open? *shrugs* Or maybe it's simply that when there are few known options for exploration (below some threshold) each is valued just for that, which would fit into the existing code rather than needing a significant addition. Might be affected by the number of empires known to be competing for them, too.
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I'm sorta confused why "systems cut off" should be an issue for the A. I.
Unless I'm missing something, which I may well be, at this point in the game, and indeed realistically most of the game*, number of systems in an arm is pretty much directly proportional to the number of exploration ships exploring that particular arm. If they are cut off from an arm that has a number of systems but none yet of interest to them, they can simply redouble their efforts to uncover territory down the arms they do control.
*Granted maybe with the increased functionality in C# positioning yourself for late-game when the galaxy is well explored may be a more legitimate concern, IDK.
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Once an arm is sufficiently large, its mathematically very unlikely for all of it to be a dead end, barring hitting the limit on total stars. So if you're cut off from a particularly large expanse of known space, without having something comparable you can access, you run the risk of finding yourself stuck in a dead end spur of the galaxy while the empire that cut you off expands without competition.
However, if you've only explored 2 or 3 stars beyond that chokepoint and don't know about any further systems, then its hard to tell if you should be concerned about the cutoff or not.
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Oh, absolutely, a NPR that doesn't yet have a quadrant of its own should be very concerned of being locked out of expansion opportunities.
Still, in the situation where everyone has their own 4-5 stars of their own space I don't see the logic in them being afraid of being locked out of one region of a vast galaxy.
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One concern an empire could have is that being locked out of an arm means that their available systems will be, on average, farther away and more difficult to exploit. While there may be a theoretically infinite number of systems down a single arm, having two arms means you have twice as many systems that are logistically feasible to use.
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The problem with this is that it's very heavily dependent on the topography of the galaxy, and since that's generated once you actually survey, it's impossible to know beforehand.
Also, this issue is almost nonexistant for races that do not start in the same system. It's really only relevant in a start with multiple races in the same system
In my opinion the only approach that makes sense is: The AI gets progressively more concerned and more willing to go to war if it finds less and less possible avenues of expansion.
Very hard to evaluate though. I think that after extensive testing on a live release we will probably know better what, if anything, should be done about this particular issue.
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Very hard to evaluate though. I think that after extensive testing on a live release we will probably know better what, if anything, should be done about this particular issue.
Yes, I agree.
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Sharing a home system is a very specific scenario and probably need different rules for the AI. In that case being cut off from one arm is a major thing - but something to make it acceptable could be if the other faction accept a similar claim from you in return. I think diplomatic trades like that feel more realistic than "ok, you got 4mil people there first so its yours".
Edit: Not that I expect negotiations like that at this stage, but hope to see diplomacy going in that direction eventually.
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I would, eventually, love to see NPRs making sub-system claims on areas they have settled out to share, like a home system (or other system where both want colonies, if diplomatic relations are good enough).
Much like the exclusion zones you placed around the Solarian bodies: "Everything in this quadrant of the asteroid belt is mine, stay away. This planet and its moons are mine, stay away. Everything around this star in the binary is mine, stay away. But if you do that, I don't see any reason we can't live together peaceably."
Obviously that's post-release pie-in-the-sky stuff, and probably wouldn't come up very often in a player-facing fashion anyway except for multi-faction starts.
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I would, eventually, love to see NPRs making sub-system claims on areas they have settled out to share, like a home system (or other system where both want colonies, if diplomatic relations are good enough).
Much like the exclusion zones you placed around the Solarian bodies: "Everything in this quadrant of the asteroid belt is mine, stay away. This planet and its moons are mine, stay away. Everything around this star in the binary is mine, stay away. But if you do that, I don't see any reason we can't live together peaceably."
Obviously that's post-release pie-in-the-sky stuff, and probably wouldn't come up very often in a player-facing fashion anyway except for multi-faction starts.
Maybe you could code based on BKM distance rather than just the system? I don't know if possible but this should quite get the feature you are describing. In this way to actually colonize an entire system you'll need multiple little mining colonies and colonies in general rather than just a big colony on 1 planet only.
Still, I don't know how the system claim would work though...I personally like the way it is structured right now but it is true I haven't played it yet, so I guess without testing on hand it's really hard to come to a conclusion.
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I would, eventually, love to see NPRs making sub-system claims on areas they have settled out to share, like a home system (or other system where both want colonies, if diplomatic relations are good enough).
Much like the exclusion zones you placed around the Solarian bodies: "Everything in this quadrant of the asteroid belt is mine, stay away. This planet and its moons are mine, stay away. Everything around this star in the binary is mine, stay away. But if you do that, I don't see any reason we can't live together peaceably."
Obviously that's post-release pie-in-the-sky stuff, and probably wouldn't come up very often in a player-facing fashion anyway except for multi-faction starts.
Maybe you could code based on BKM distance rather than just the system? I don't know if possible but this should quite get the feature you are describing. In this way to actually colonize an entire system you'll need multiple little mining colonies and colonies in general rather than just a big colony on 1 planet only.
Still, I don't know how the system claim would work though...I personally like the way it is structured right now but it is true I haven't played it yet, so I guess without testing on hand it's really hard to come to a conclusion.
I think Steve said he tried but issues with micro from ships getting to close doing other things was an issue. I guess it would be alright if it just ignored distance to that system body though, only checking at ends of orders. So you don't have to worry about regular traffic getting too close and upsetting an NPR, but if you end fleets on waypoints or extended orbits or normal orders at those worlds they will get mad.
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Thanks for that last update Steve, it puts the videos in their right context.
That STO trick is nifty, I'll have to remember it for my own multi-Earth game!
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Thanks for the update Steve, and thanks for the very interesting videos and campaign.
Looking forward to the next one.
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I've been having a blast reading this AAR. Very interesting setup! Looking forward to the C# release when it comes.