half speed for carriers?

[martinuzz (OP)]

I just noticed that the max speed listed in the fleet orders window for my missile drone fleet is 1500 km/s. No damage, they came fresh out of overhaul.
Which is strange, considering they should go 3000 km/s according to the design. They are fully loaded (with four 500 ton fighters). Does this halve their speed?

The carrier design:

Code: [Select]

Delivery class Missile Drone Frigate    20,000 tons     183 Crew     2370.7 BP      TCS 400  TH 600  EM 0
3000 km/s     Armour 4-65     Shields 0-0     Sensors 14/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 29     PPV 0
Maint Life 0.49 Years     MSP 685    AFR 345%    IFR 4.8%    1YR 1405    5YR 21076    Max Repair 450 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Flight Crew Berths 0    
Hangar Deck Capacity 2000 tons     Magazine 680    

600 EP Silent Internal Fusion Drive (2)    Power 600    Fuel Use 132.27%    Signature 300    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 11,250,000 Litres    Range 76.5 billion km   (295 days at full power)

CIWS-160 (1x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 16000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Size 6 SR Torpedo Mk1 (96)  Speed: 21,300 km/s   End: 0.5m    Range: 0.7m km   WH: 25    Size: 6    TH: 191/115/57

Thermal Sensor TH1-14 (Civilian) (1)     Sensitivity 14     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  14m km

Strike Group
4x Deepstrike Strikefighter   Speed: 12000 km/s    Size: 10
EDIT: I think it might be a bug. I remembered this fleet giving a maintnance failure, and unable to repair due to insufficient supplies message earlier, which was a reason I brought them in for overhaul anyway.

Now, if I look at the individual ships, one of them has a damaged engine (shouldn't overhaul have fixed this?). This is what it says in the ship design view tab of the  individual ship window:

Code: [Select]

Delivery class Missile Drone Frigate 20000 tons     183 Crew     2370.7 BP      TCS 400  TH 300  EM 0
1500 km/s     Armour 4-65     Shields 0-0     Sensors 14/1/0/0     Damage Control 29     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 0%    IFR: 0%    Maintenance Capacity 685 MSP
Parasite Capacity 2000 tons     Magazine 680   Flight Crew Berths 1   

600 EP Silent Internal Fusion Drive (1)    Power 600    Fuel Use 132.27%    Armour 0    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 11,250,000 Litres    Range 76.5 billion km   (590 days at full power)

CIWS-160 (1x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 16000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Size 6 SR Torpedo Mk1 (96)  Speed: 21,300 km/s   End: 0.5m    Range: 0.7m km   WH: 25    Size: 6    TH: 191 / 115 / 57

Thermal Sensor TH1-14 (Civilian) (1)     Sensitivity 14     Detect Signature 1000: 14m km


Repair Cost: 450Note the 450 repair cost, and note the 685 MSP capacity (which is fully filled up).
However, if I order it repaired, the game throws me an event message saying "unable to continue with emergency damage control due to insufficient maintnance supply".

So I guess double bug.
1) Have enough MSP, but game thinks not.
2) Overhaul did not repair damaged engine

I'm gonna see of refitting them to an upgraded design will do any good

[linkxsc]

Why doesnt the damaged 1 have any mention of its maintenence info?

[martinuzz (OP)]

Why doesnt the damaged 1 have any mention of its maintenence info?

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. If I look in the fleet orders window, it says it's full on MSP

EDIT: the first uneducated guess I would make is that the damage control erroneously looks at the docked fighter's MSP capacity when it tries to repair the mothership, instead of at the mothership's MSP. But that's just a guess.

[Bgreman]

So I guess double bug.
1) Have enough MSP, but game thinks not.
2) Overhaul did not repair damaged engine

Neither of these are bugs. 

1) Max repair is the most expensive single component failure cost.  When a maintenance failure occurs, it costs the component's original BP cost to instantly fix it.  If you don't have that amount of MSP on hand when the maintenance failure occurs, the component becomes destroyed.  At that point, it costs DOUBLE to repair via damage control, i.e. 900, and you don't have that capacity.

2) Overhauls do not repair ships.  They just rewind the maintenance clock.  To repair the vessel, you'll need to use a shipyard.

[martinuzz (OP)]

Neither of these are bugs. 

1) Max repair is the most expensive single component failure cost.  When a maintenance failure occurs, it costs the component's original BP cost to instantly fix it.  If you don't have that amount of MSP on hand when the maintenance failure occurs, the component becomes destroyed.  At that point, it costs DOUBLE to repair via damage control, i.e. 900, and you don't have that capacity.

2) Overhauls do not repair ships.  They just rewind the maintenance clock.  To repair the vessel, you'll need to use a shipyard.

Oh! Thanks for clearing that up, never knew that. From now on I might just start building my ships with enough MSP to replace a destroyed engine then.

[Whitecold]

I'm just wondering, where does all the mass go in your ship? I am kinda underimpressed with the size of the hanger bays, and 3kkm/s is pretty slow for internal fusion.

[martinuzz (OP)]

I'm just wondering, where does all the mass go in your ship? I am kinda underimpressed with the size of the hanger bays, and 3kkm/s is pretty slow for internal fusion.

Four armour, engineering spaces, two damage control units, a (crappy old) CIWS..

But yeah this ship was a rather old design already anyways. I'm flying inertial drives nowadays, no more internal.
Here's the Mk2 (still with the crappy old CIWS haha). It still can't repair a broken engine

Code: [Select]

Delivery Mk2 class Missile Drone Frigate    20,000 tons     198 Crew     3283.15 BP      TCS 400  TH 672  EM 0
4800 km/s     Armour 4-65     Shields 0-0     Sensors 14/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 69     PPV 0
Maint Life 0.52 Years     MSP 923    AFR 355%    IFR 4.9%    1YR 1781    5YR 26717    Max Repair 560 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 12 months    Flight Crew Berths 22    
Hangar Deck Capacity 2000 tons     Magazine 576    

640 EP Inertial Fusion Stealth Drive (3)    Power 640    Fuel Use 152.74%    Signature 224    Exp 20%
Fuel Capacity 12,000,000 Litres    Range 70.7 billion km   (170 days at full power)

CIWS-160 (1x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 16000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
Size 6 SR Torpedo Mk1 (96)  Speed: 21,300 km/s   End: 0.5m    Range: 0.7m km   WH: 25    Size: 6    TH: 191/115/57

Thermal Sensor TH1-14 (Civilian) (1)     Sensitivity 14     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  14m km

ECM 20

Strike Group
4x Deepstrike Strikefighter   Speed: 12000 km/s    Size: 10
Also: I played this game a few years back, and it does seem that with version 6+, I need to include many, many more fuel tanks in my designs than I used to to.

[alex_brunius]

I'm just wondering, where does all the mass go in your ship? I am kinda underimpressed with the size of the hanger bays, and 3kkm/s is pretty slow for internal fusion.

"all the mass" seem to go into fueltanks.

12 million liters of fuel needs 12000 ton so the design is 60% fueltanks which is.... ehum, very excessive.

More engines instead of fueltanks would greatly increase performance if you also make the engines lower power mod = much much more fuel efficient. That way you can have both higher speed and range, while burning less fuel.

[linkxsc]

Shifting the ships from being 60% fuel to being 20% and scaling your engine power to half and doubling the number of them would honestly net you a longer range. Now I do understand that this ship might also be a fueling tender for a fleet, but the thing could easily double the range and speed by changing up engine design a bit.

[martinuzz (OP)]

So.. The higher engine power modifiers are really only good for fighter and missile engines then?

[sublight]

Close. The high engine power modifiers are only really good on short ranged objects that never reposition themselves.

I've seen grav-survey fighters that needed low power modifiers on the engines, and I've seen parasite cruisers which used maximum engine power. However, as a generalization yes. The highest engine powers are often best limited to missiles and fighters.

[linkxsc]

Well for me so far, this is how it goes.
1x is generally what i use for regular patrol craft.
.5 is for the civvys and things like geosurvey/gravsurvey ships (which are generally quite long ranged, but often exceed 50% engine by weight)

Defense ships that need to go fast, get a 1.5-2x
Facs and fighters get somewhere in the 2-3 range.


Missiles usually get the highest powermod that i have researched at that moment, unless its a cruise missile, and then it gets a more efficient cruise section.

[Jorgen_CAB]

In general I have normal military engines for ships at 3000t+ at a power mod between 1.25 and 0.75. The larger the engine I design the lower the multiplier to reduce RP cost and capitalize on fuel efficiency. Larger ships also tend to get much more fuel because they need more range and more fuel for parasites, thus they need more efficient engines.

The range on my ships in a developed empire ranges from 6b km for smaller escort ships to 25-30b for large battle carriers. A large 75.000t carrier will not find many places where they can perform maintenance or repair/upgrades so they need fuel efficient engine so they don't eat up all your fuel reserve when they move around your empire, even for just showing up and intimidate a foe or placate a rebellious planet.

[Garfunkel]

AFAIK, additional Damage Control modules are useless. You just need one to cut the repair time from hours to minutes.