From +175 to -250 relationship!

[Nibelung44 (OP)]

Hi,

Not sure it is normal, so if it is not, I prefer to warn Steve!

A NPR with whom I had +175 relationship opened trade relations with me. So good so far, and my civilians ships rushed to trade goods at their home world. Then a few days later, they declared war on me. I did not provoke them in any way, and in fact I had no ships in their systems. 5s after the DOW, they start trashing all the civilian lanes ships I had around their world ...

What's more, the surviving ones continue unloading goods, and farther away, others are still heading toward the alien HW...


So... Are the NPR programmed to be so devious, or is it a bug? They open trade relations, wait a few days for ships to arrive, then DOW ... Plus, the lack of update in orders of the civilian lanes ships is weird...


Also, what controls do I have on civilian lanes ships? What is the use of the transponders?

[sloanjh]

Hi,

Not sure it is normal, so if it is not, I prefer to warn Steve!

A NPR with whom I had +175 relationship opened trade relations with me. So good so far, and my civilians ships rushed to trade goods at their home world. Then a few days later, they declared war on me. I did not provoke them in any way, and in fact I had no ships in their systems. 5s after the DOW, they start trashing all the civilian lanes ships I had around their world ...

What's more, the surviving ones continue unloading goods, and farther away, others are still heading toward the alien HW...


So... Are the NPR programmed to be so devious, or is it a bug? They open trade relations, wait a few days for ships to arrive, then DOW ... Plus, the lack of update in orders of the civilian lanes ships is weird...


Also, what controls do I have on civilian lanes ships? What is the use of the transponders?

This is  a known issue, but it's worth re-posting in the Bugs thread (the official one) so Steve doesn't forget.

John

[Hawkeye]

As sloanjh said, it´s a known bug, but has been there for a while. Apparently, the NPR feel threatend by your commercial ships, even so they granted you a trade agreement.
The only workaround I could think of is: Do not build a jumpgate route to the NPR, as your civies will only travel via gates.
Of course, this won´t help you, if the NPR is doing the building.

[UnLimiTeD]

Alternatively, you can use the time to quickly move a fleet to their home system, you know, just in case.

[Nibelung44 (OP)]

They are much more powerful than me. I cower in fear on their might 


I must admit that it has almost be a show stopper for me. Seeing all my diplomatic efforts going to the sink, and because of a bug. Plus my merchant fleet destroyed in a few days, some continuing to advance like lemmings to their death.


So tonight, a bit of Space Empire V instead. I'll see if I resume my game another day... 

[sloanjh]

I put a post in bugs pointing at this thread.  One question - are you using 5.20, or are you on an earlier version?

John

[Beersatron]

You have any ships in their systems with active sensors on? They don't like that!

Does your Freighter design have active sensors? Doubt the Civies turned them on but you never know.

[Nibelung44 (OP)]

Thanks Sloanjh.


I had no ship of mine (if you exclude the ones handled by the civilian sector) in the system.
None of the freighters have any sensor, or they would be classified as military vessels, and I think the civilian sector would not buy them.
I'm playing in 5.20

[Brian Neumann]

Thanks Sloanjh.


I had no ship of mine (if you exclude the ones handled by the civilian sector) in the system.
None of the freighters have any sensor, or they would be classified as military vessels, and I think the civilian sector would not buy them.
I'm playing in 5.20

Not quite true.  A sensor that is 1 hull space or less in size is not counted as military.  When you are building your ships click the box just below the list of items on the left side that says commercial only.  This will only display components that can be put on commercial ships.

Brian

[Nibelung44 (OP)]

Did not knew that... I'm unsure it can be handy in real situation but I'll try. In any case, they were blind

[Icebird]

I just got the same problem.  Big friendly NPR race, they allow trade, multiples civilians go trade with them, NPR angry, declare war, destroy my civilians. . .
My commercial ships have no sensor at all, so its definitaly a bug.

[Hawkeye]

In order to rescue a long camaing, you might try this:
Go into SM mode
Open Inelligence and Diplomacy window (CTRL+F5)
At the bottom-left there is a button "Change DR"
If you click on that, you can enter the diplomatic rating with the race selected.
At +800, the aliens view you as a friendly race and your commercials ships will no longer bother them.

Note: I have never used this feature, so I don´t know if this just changes how your empire views the aliens (wouldn´t help you much), or if it changes how they view your empire also.
Still worth a try.

[Beersatron]

In order to rescue a long camaing, you might try this:
Go into SM mode
Open Inelligence and Diplomacy window (CTRL+F5)
At the bottom-left there is a button "Change DR"
If you click on that, you can enter the diplomatic rating with the race selected.
At +800, the aliens view you as a friendly race and your commercials ships will no longer bother them.

Note: I have never used this feature, so I don´t know if this just changes how your empire views the aliens (wouldn´t help you much), or if it changes how they view your empire also.
Still worth a try.

I think this only affects how you view them, to change their feelings towards you will take either Dev Mode or maybe DB access.

[Starkiller]

Hmm. Never encountered the problem, but since I don't trade, it's a moot point.
Aliens are for conquering, or extermination. That way, they never stab you in
the back. Heck, some of the most valuable worlds I have in the Empire, were
alien homeworlds I conquered. Once their political status changes to Imperial
Population, they are fully productive members of the Empire. Some of them
can even colonize planets at no cost, that WOULD cost me.

Eric

[sloanjh]

I just got the same problem.  Big friendly NPR race, they allow trade, multiples civilians go trade with them, NPR angry, declare war, destroy my civilians. . .
My commercial ships have no sensor at all, so its definitaly a bug.

It is a bug (known issue), but not because of the lack of a sensor....

There is a piece of mis-information upthread.  When the diplomacy rules were introduced, there was a confusingly-worded statement that says that aliens get annoyed if they detect you with active sensors in their system.  This statement can commonly be misinterpreted to imply that they get peeved if you're using active sensors - that is not the problem.  As of a recent release (I don't remember which one), Steve changed passive sensors so that they can get a class ID; I don't remember (but think he did) if he changed the rule so that they're pissed if they detect you with any sensor (not just active).

The bug is that aliens don't realize that they've granted you trade rights anymore - they view your commercial ships as intruders, even though the ships have been invited in.  IIRC, the workaround from Hawkeye is the way to fix the issue - I don't think you have to change to the other race (but I could be wrong).

John