Is this viable

[Zimmo (OP)]

Hi all,
Found Aurora just recently and must say it's absolutely brilliant. 
Been browsing the forum and saw all sorts of hints and tips, which have been useful. 

As I understand it, jumpgates give unlimited access to a system for both yourself and any potential enemies out there if they are placed on both sides of a jump point. 
Whereas a jumpdrive equipped ship can 'picket' a jumpoint point and escort as many ships through as it wants, from both directions(?), as long as its mass is greater than or equal to the jumping ships via a standard transit.   So is it possible to build a jump station with no engines and post it on the point so it acts like a 'your race only' jumpgate? something like this?

Code: [Select]

Jump Station class Jump Tender    150,000 tons     8160 Crew     38522 BP      TCS 3000  TH 0  EM 0
1 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 1-251     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 4     PPV 0
Maint Capacity 140642 MSP    Max Repair 15625 MSP

J150000(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 150000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
Fuel Capacity 100,000,000 Litres    Range N/A

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes

And will it allow civilian traffic automatically or would they need a jumpgate for that?

Edit: Oh yeah, its flagged as a tanker & supply ship so squadrons can refuel/resupply before moving on.  Also the military drives allow all traffic (military & commercial) to pass, assuming I understood that part correctly (military engines cannot use a commercial jump but commercial vessels can jump through a point opened by a military jumpdrive)

[Starkiller]

Hmmm. Not sure, but I think it needs at least one engine and I doubt it will act as a "race only"
jump gate. You see, when you emerge from a jump point, you come out at various distances from
the jump point on the other side. Without an engine, it can't reach the jump point once it comes out.
I never tried it, but I don't even think it can jump at the point where it is stationed. Nice idea though.

Eric

[Steve Walmsley]

It should work. A jump ship can be stationed at a jump point and doesn't actually have to make the jump as long as it is just a standard transit and not a squadron transit. It just opens the jump point for other ships. When the code checks for a jump ship stationed at a jump point, it doesn't check to see if they have any engines.

With regard to commercial shipping, a military ship can't use a commercial jump drive but I *think* a commercial ship can be escorted by a military drive.

Steve

[Zimmo (OP)]

It should work.  A jump ship can be stationed at a jump point and doesn't actually have to make the jump as long as it is just a standard transit and not a squadron transit.  It just opens the jump point for other ships.  When the code checks for a jump ship stationed at a jump point, it doesn't check to see if they have any engines.

With regard to commercial shipping, a military ship can't use a commercial jump drive but I *think* a commercial ship can be escorted by a military drive.

Steve

Point 2 of this post in the FAQs is where I developed the idea from
hxxp: aurora2. pentarch. org/index. php/topic,2090. msg20069. html#msg20069

2)  Ships with non-civilian engines (i. e.  military, GB, fighter) cannot transit a wormhole created by a commercial jump drive.   The technobabble for this is that the commercial wormhole pays for its higher capacity with a lower stability, and would be destabilized by the transit of military-grade engines with their higher power levels.   So don't put military engines on a commercial jump freighter :-)  Commercial ships can, of course, transit through wormholes created by a military jump drive.

Which implies that it should work but I wasn't sure.  Doing it this way is expensive as you need to build multiple ships but the benefits are that you should theoretically get unlimited jump access but your enemies can't flood you like they could if there was a jump gate there.  And it also acts like a picket ship in that most enemies will attack/destroy it so giving you warning of an approaching armada.
All this assumes my understanding of the jump mechanics are correct though.

[bean]

Commercial drives can transit a military gate.  I've done it recently.

[Zimmo (OP)]

Commercial drives can transit a military gate.   I've done it recently.

Awesome. . . so this crazy idea I had is actually feasible.  Well chuffed

[Beersatron]

Civilian Freighters might not transit it though, I think they only check for a Jumpgate and not a Jumpdrive equipped ship because the Jumpdrive equipped ship could have moved on before the freighter got there.

[bean]

That is also true.  I'd recommend building jumpgates between secured systems.  There really should be a way to remove a jumpgate, though.

[ZimRathbone]

The one MAJOR problem with this is the resources required to produce one of these - its a huge drain on even a massive empire, and certainly far out of reach of most player empires I've seen (waresky excepted of course) if you're doing this at more than a few critical transit points. it will be many times more expensive than building jump gates.


Edit: BTW I notice that the maint on this is huge - given that its a commercial design you only need 1 maint space - or is this stored maint for use as a Supply ship?

[UnLimiTeD]

So how many years of wealth production does this take to put into action?
And wouldn't a system defense fleet be cheaper?

[Zimmo (OP)]

Civilian Freighters might not transit it though, I think they only check for a Jumpgate and not a Jumpdrive equipped ship because the Jumpdrive equipped ship could have moved on before the freighter got there.

That is also true.   I'd recommend building jumpgates between secured systems.   There really should be a way to remove a jumpgate, though.

Balls! Bang goes that idea then.  I thought commercial shipping would use this like a jumpgate without me having the potential 'Invasion highway' a jumpgate entails.

The one MAJOR problem with this is the resources required to produce one of these - its a huge drain on even a massive empire, and certainly far out of reach of most player empires I've seen (waresky excepted of course) if you're doing this at more than a few critical transit points.  it will be many times more expensive than building jump gates.


Edit: BTW I notice that the maint on this is huge - given that its a commercial design you only need 1 maint space - or is this stored maint for use as a Supply ship?

Yes, its all storage bays to help bulk it up to the designed mass.  My thoughts were to roleplay it as a customs station on a jumpoint.  So civilian shipping uses it, pays a transit fee and then carries on shipping goods.  Obviously doesn't show up on the wealth screen properly but as I said, all roleplayed.

So how many years of wealth production does this take to put into action?
And wouldn't a system defense fleet be cheaper?

No idea.  Was just a proof of concept idea that unfortunately looks like it won't pan out.  Costs from the design screen are as follows:
23479x Duranium
108x Neutronium
5x Corbomite
330x Mercassium
12500x Sorium

Build time is 4. 32 yrs
Not sure what the actual wealth cost would be.

As I said ealier this was only a design and feasability study that appears not to have worked quite as expected.  It was designed to allow the largest amount of potential tonnage through it.

[Steve Walmsley]

Civilian Freighters might not transit it though, I think they only check for a Jumpgate and not a Jumpdrive equipped ship because the Jumpdrive equipped ship could have moved on before the freighter got there.

That's true. Civilian freighters will only plan a route to destinations they can reach via jump-gates. As you say, there is no guarantee a ship would still be there when they arrived.

Steve