My ship concepts

[DuraniumCowboy (OP)]

I am playing through my first game.   I used a modified conventional start, and am now up to ion technology.   So far my fleet just has 4 scout frigates and 4, non jump capable defense frigates.   In order to broaden my base of ships to provide train officers and also defend some small systems, I wanted to develop a gunboat concept.   These platforms probably won't be great in a fight at this tech, but they will be cheap, and later, I should be able to use them from a carrier.   Any comments are appreciated:

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GB-1 class Gunboat    1 000 tons     32 Crew     138.5 BP      TCS 20  TH 45  EM 0
3000 km/s     Armour 2-8     Shields 0-0     Sensors 6/5/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 3
Maint Life 5.48 Years     MSP 43    AFR 16%    IFR 0.2%    1YR 2    5YR 36    Max Repair 37.5 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 2   

C-1-M 60 EP Ion Drive (1)    Power 60    Fuel Use 66.5%    Signature 45    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 100 000 Litres    Range 27.1 billion km   (104 days at full power)

B10A 10cm Railgun V2/C3 (1x4)    Range 16 000km     TS: 3000 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 2    ROF 5        1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
B-PD-1 Fire Control S01 8-5000 (1)    Max Range: 16 000 km   TS: 5000 km/s     37 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Standard Pebble Bed Reactor Technology PB-1 (1)     Total Power Output 3    Armour 0    Exp 5%

FS-C-1 Active Search Sensor MR0-R5 (70%) (1)     GPS 8     Range 210k km    Resolution 5
FLIR Thermal Sensor TH1-6 (1)     Sensitivity 6     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  6m km
Grumman ESM-1 EM Detection Sensor EM1-5 (1)     Sensitivity 5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


[SteelChicken]

With their slow speed and short firing range, it is unlikely they will ever be able to hit anything.

[Black]

I suppose those could be used as limited antimissile platforms with different sensors.

[Charlie Beeler]

Not really.  Between the appearent tech level and the BFC as built the base hit chance is very low.

[Prince of Space]

If this design is just meant as a trainer and coast guard cutter, you can probably drop the passive sensors and rely on deep space tracking stations. Later, if you choose to use them on carriers, you can have larger passive sensors mounted on a carrier support vessel, or on the carrier itself if you like.

You could also cut the size of the active sensor down until the range more closely matches your railgun's range. I like the idea in general of putting actives on each gunboat; it provides a comforting redundancy and removes the need to tool up another shipyard for a leader variant. It's a less effective strategy with missile boats, since you need more range, and thus a bigger sensor design.

I would say take the space saved on sensors and either cut it down to a 500-ton fighter/gunboat design to free up a shipyard, or put the tonnage into a bigger gun and/or engine. The fighter option has the disadvantage of removing their eligibility for maintenance facility upkeep and overhaul; they would need a hangar somewhere.

[Barkhorn]

Your range is also way farther than it needs to be.  27b km is around 4 trips from Neptune to the Sun and back.  In both your operating scenarios, these gunboats will never be more than a couple billion km away from a fuel source, either a carrier or a colony.

With that in mind, I'd make a more powerful, less fuel-efficient engine of the same size.  You can probably get these gunboats up to at least 4000 km/s.

Also, your deployment time is limiting if these are based at a colony.  3 months is fine if you're based at a carrier, but its very short if you're based at a colony.  Especially at only 3000 km/s.

I'd drop the passive EM sensors entirely and spend that tonnage on a bigger thermal sensor, but that's a personal preference thing.  I don't think yours is wrong, just something to consider.

[DuraniumCowboy (OP)]

Thanks for the input.   I have already developed high power "fighter" engines.   I can swap those out and add a lot of speed at the sacrifice of endurance.   My biggest question is how much endurance is enough?  Also, I haven't optimized my components for this size of boat, so after the discussions here I am looking at maybe a missile armed ship instead.   Based on my still low tech, my counter missile series is size 2.   I could add at least two size two launchers here.   I had a question though.   I assume if I want to be able to engage missiles, then I need a resolution 1 missile fire control system?  In this case, I might look at two FC's one for defense and one for standoff attacks (which can probably be pretty light).   My CM's range 11m km at my tech (well past the 1m km I can actually target a missile at, but I have checked, and can also build a size two light attack missile with damage 4 that also reaches 11m km.   With a high resolution FC, I should be able to match that.   When fighting under the umbrella of my local PDC's, these might have some value.

Also, I definetly plan on building a recon variant, uber big thermal, small EM and normal ship sized active sensors with slow 3 km/sec speed and long endurance, so mixing those into the wing, I can definitely cut electronics off the stock gun boats.   I will need to develop some more components (low weight size two launchers, light magazines, anti shipping small missile FC) which may take me some time, but I'll provide some updates when in a few days.   Later -DC

[Prince of Space]

Honestly, trying to design a 1000-ton fast attack craft with anti-ship and anti-missile capability isn't really in the cards in Aurora. The dual fire controls will probably eat up too much of your tonnage, leaving you with insufficient firepower for either task.

Your design goals may have shifted during the discussion, but your initial stated aim was, to my mind, to design a ship which provides three things: PPV for extrasolar colonies, busywork for your officer corps, and the ability to suckerpunch any unwanted alien ship that pokes it's nose into your territory. That's doable in 1000 tons. A generalist combatant isn't.

[DuraniumCowboy (OP)]

That makes sense.   With that being said, not having a lot of combat experience yet, what makes the most sense as far as endurance, a few weeks?  I was ideally shooting for 3 months, so I could have them do TF training over 1-2 30 day turns.   I guess once I get a carrier, I could use that to train them.   If I am just using them around colonies and off of carriers, what would be best?

[sublight]

The biggest thing that stuck out at me is that it looks like you are using a 50% range 4x speed fire control with the lowest 1250 km/s fire control speed tech. Researching 2000 km/s tracking speed ASAP and building a 1x range 2x speed would give a max range of 32k km and a max speed of 4000 km/s. The longer fire control range would give much better weapon accuracy solving half the problems with the GB-1. Improved FireControl + FasterSpeed = minimalist attack gunboat. Improved FireControl + LongerDuration = passible jump picket.

As for endurance...
0.5 months gives the first crew size reduction, but is too short to do much TF training without carriers.
1 month + 2x Fuel Burn time is what I typically think of as reasonable for an attack fleet that won't need to do picket duty.
12 months+ works great for jump point pickets or scout ships that spend most of their time away from colonies.

[Prince of Space]

If you plan on keeping the craft at Earth until trouble shows up at one of your jump points, you'll need enough fuel to get to wherever the trouble is and back again, with a little extra just in case. I'd say 9 or 10 billion km. Bear in mind this is range, not endurance; if these are super fast ships their endurance might only be a month or so.

You can cut your fuel load by either stationing them closer to where you expect to need them or outsourcing the fuel to another craft or colony. A gunboat-sized tanker that matches their speed can accompany them up until they engage the enemy, or a tanker can refuel them after the battle, or you can dump some fuel nearby on an asteroid and have the craft top off their tanks there before or after. A carrier could serve the same purpose: refuel and rearm the FACs nearby the trouble spot while halting the maintenance clock while they sit idle.

[Charlie Beeler]

Looks like you left the bridge in place.  Being a 1k/ton ship you can drop the bridge and gain a hs that can be used elsewhere.

If you use a gas-cooled vs pebble-bed reactor you can gain another .3hs.

Drop the thermal reduction on the engine.  At this signature size you're just adding build cost that doesn't actually gain anything tactically.

Drop the second layer of armor, at this size it isn't doing much good and the hs savings can be better used.

Drop the passives completely.  Single hs passives are way to myopic to be worth the space in this size of ship.

Upgrade the BFC to 3xRange/4xSpeed for a 90% hit chance before modifiers at 10k/km. (6hs)

With a sensor suite in the flotilla that can see incoming missiles at a range of at least 125k/km you know have a limited anti-missile capability that has a chance of functioning as a duel role local defense platform.

[DuraniumCowboy (OP)]

Folks, thanks for all the replies.    Based on my current situation (I am behind on direct fire weapon tech due to a lack of scientists), I decided to go with a missile boat for now.    In preparing to present it here, I actually just realized I made a design mistake.    Ideally, I am looking for a platform that can scoot in, fire while in the gap between high resolution ship search radars and low resolution missile active sensors.    Looking at this now, my Light Attack Missile (LAM) has the same range as my counter missile systems, so this approach won't even work perfectly against my own forces, much less an alien race with better tech.    I will need to update my missile and FC to about a 20m range, so as you look at this in mind, keep that in mind.    Also, I will probably cut down endurance a bit.    I want these to be able to do short term pickets as a secondary mission, but I think my range is still a little on the high side:

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GB-M-2 class Gunboat    1 000 tons     19 Crew     146.34 BP      TCS 20  TH 72  EM 0
3600 km/s     Armour 2-8     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 4
Maint Life 4.48 Years     MSP 23    AFR 32%    IFR 0.4%    1YR 2    5YR 28    Max Repair 10 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 1    
Magazine 56    

C-F-1 18 EP Ion Drive (4)    Power 18    Fuel Use 190.97%    Signature 18    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 150 000 Litres    Range 14.1 billion km   (45 days at full power)

MB-2L-B Size 2 Missile Launcher (50% Reduction) (4)    Missile Size 2    Rate of Fire 150
C-MFC-AS-M-1 Missile Fire Control FC10-R20 (1)     Range 10.3m km    Resolution 20
LAM-2 (28)  Speed: 12 600 km/s   End: 12.1m    Range: 9.1m km   WH: 4    Size: 2    TH: 58/35/17

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

BTW, these work with a recon variant that also doubles as a scout/AEW platform (A wing = 4 missile boats plus two recon birds, although I may shift to 1:5).    These will need my longer range active sensor package, so a little fuel will be coming off as I tweak for the extended range attack option:

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GB-R-2 class Gunboat    1 000 tons     19 Crew     176 BP      TCS 20  TH 90  EM 0
4500 km/s     Armour 1-8     Shields 0-0     Sensors 24/8/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 200%    IFR 2.8%    1YR 19    5YR 282    Max Repair 29 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Spare Berths 1    

C-F-1 18 EP Ion Drive (5)    Power 18    Fuel Use 190.97%    Signature 18    Exp 15%
Fuel Capacity 265 000 Litres    Range 25.0 billion km   (64 days at full power)

C-ASR-M Active Search Sensor MR10-R20 (1)     GPS 576     Range 10.3m km    Resolution 20
B-PT-1-H Thermal Sensor TH4-24 (1)     Sensitivity 24     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  24m km
C-PEM-M-1 EM Detection Sensor EM1-8 (1)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  8m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Finally, you need a deck to fly these puppies from, so here is my CVE Ranger ship.    I already have one built.    This tech is about a generation old right now.    I will be building the follow-on Ark Royal, and then probably refit this up to my most current tech.    My take is this isn't optimal, but for a small, early game flagship, its good enough to start.    I probably tried to cram too much in, so will be looking to simplify number of systems to get more magazine space expecially.    At least it is good for ferrying gunboat squadrons to new bases for now.    BTW, the missile loadout is a generation old.    Its has been restocked with CM-3's and LAM-2's now. 

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Ranger class Escort Carrier    21 150 tons     323 Crew     2312.45 BP      TCS 423  TH 480  EM 0
1134 km/s     Armour 3-68     Shields 0-0     Sensors 6/6/0/0     Damage Control Rating 7     PPV 12
Maint Life 2.42 Years     MSP 478    AFR 511%    IFR 7.1%    1YR 112    5YR 1685    Max Repair 150 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Flight Crew Berths 1    
Flag Bridge    Hangar Deck Capacity 6000 tons     Magazine 511    

B-1-M 40 EP Nuclear Pulse Engine (12)    Power 40    Fuel Use 85.5%    Signature 40    Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 4 000 000 Litres    Range 39.8 billion km   (406 days at full power)

A-1 CIWS-50 (2x2)    Range 1000 km     TS: 5000 km/s     ROF 5       Base 50% To Hit
MB-2L-A Size 2 Missile Launcher (75% Reduction) (8)    Missile Size 2    Rate of Fire 60
B-MFC-PD-H Missile Fire Control FC8-R1 (2)     Range 8.6m km    Resolution 1
LAM-1 (162)  Speed: 11 000 km/s   End: 10.6m    Range: 7m km   WH: 2    Size: 2    TH: 47/28/14
CM-2 (94)  Speed: 15 000 km/s   End: 3.1m    Range: 2.8m km   WH: 1    Size: 2    TH: 60/36/18

B-ASR-H Active Search Sensor MR22-R60 (1)     GPS 2880     Range 22.3m km    Resolution 60
B-MDR-H Active Search Sensor MR2-R1 (1)     GPS 48     Range 2.9m km    MCR 314k km    Resolution 1
B-PT-1-M Thermal Sensor TH1-6 (1)     Sensitivity 6     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  6m km
B-PEM-M EM Detection Sensor EM1-6 (1)     Sensitivity 6     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  6m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes


[papent]

that carrier is huge, slow and has multirole function. what your Spacy Op-plan? if you don't have yet you should think about it before building ships.

 I didn't my first campaign and i had destroyers, cruisers, and frigates all fulfilling the same exact function in different groups or sometimes the same group. i came up with a op-plan first this time around and i saved so much time and resources with a more focused force.

[DuraniumCowboy (OP)]

My basic op plan is built around CTF's employing a light carrier, 2-3 DD's and 4-8 MSL Frigates.  DD's are primarily escorts (AMM's and Dual Purpose Light laser turrets), the MSL Frigates are stand-off missile shooters.  The engagement concept is to deploy 1 AEW recon gunboat as a screen, with the Missile Frigates leading, then main body.  The ideal engagement strategy is to simultaneously engage with Gun boats and long range missiles working in tandem to overload adversary PD.  Once dry, the GB's RTB and we either pop smoke or re-arm and then attack again if the enemy is weak enough for just the gun boats to be effective.  AT some point, I will add in Fighters.  At that point, GB's will probably stay on as training/garrison and AEW platforms.

The carrier is slow because it still has TL 2 engines on it.  It will never be fast, but for Ark Royal, I am considering gutting almost all the weapons and adding more magazine space.  With upgraded engines it will be much faster.

If I can get some better scientists and make better progress with direct fire weapons, I may bring a heavy cruiser (25-30k tons)  into play which would be designed for close engagements.  I will probably also design a light cruiser (20k tons) which will be optimized for independent ops, scouting and jump ferrying other combatants (plus be able to jump ferry CVE's).

My scout ships have a different approach.  I use Scout Frigates with jump drives and all AMM's, being the least common denominator of what I will jump into an unexplored system.  I then have a Jump Destroyer that carries larger missiles, to deploy sensor buoys while giving it a secondary role as anti shipping (it also has a flag bridge to host a scout fleet TF command).  Ideally, a scout task force is a few Scout Frigates and a JD. My scout units also will have the secondary mission of augmenting my main fleet with jump ferry support should I need to attack through a jump point. 

With that being said, my fleet is currently designed to be defensive operationally.  My primary concern is stopping potential aggression, not gaining access to defended space.  The CONOPs may mature as I meet NPR's and have more defined threats.