Posted by: SpikeTheHobbitMage
« on: May 05, 2020, 05:37:45 PM »It seems that the engine changes have affected AMMs more than I thought. Sorry about the noise before. This will take some time to !science! properly.
As a game mechanic, I love Aurora Missile settings but I need to agree that if we are really talking about it's unrealistic for a missile to travel a billion KMs.
I think Steve has realized that hence the new tracking bonus mechanic which makes the AMM salvos more effective and potentially you don't even need that many launchers given enough "notice".
Would be great to have something more similar to the SciFi narrative where combat is mostly close range (I don't know what close range is in Space KMs though). I think having a cap in the weapon range could really improve some of the combat mechanics. I Don't know how much would that be though to keep it engaging and balanced.
EDIT: I know a missile in the vacuum of space can do that (travel billion km) but we are talking combat here.
The missile tracking bonus only apply to beam weapons though so AMM is not more effective becasue of that.
In fact beam weapons have become way more powerful in C# where missile lost range and beam weapons have been more powerful as PD. This require larger and larger missile salvos to make ASM viable from an economical standpoint. I think this is a good change as missiles was and still is dominating in general but less so now.
As a game mechanic, I love Aurora Missile settings but I need to agree that if we are really talking about it's unrealistic for a missile to travel a billion KMs.
I think Steve has realized that hence the new tracking bonus mechanic which makes the AMM salvos more effective and potentially you don't even need that many launchers given enough "notice".
Would be great to have something more similar to the SciFi narrative where combat is mostly close range (I don't know what close range is in Space KMs though). I think having a cap in the weapon range could really improve some of the combat mechanics. I Don't know how much would that be though to keep it engaging and balanced.
EDIT: I know a missile in the vacuum of space can do that (travel billion km) but we are talking combat here.
Forgive me, I did not want to derail the thread. I'll just post a small explanation of my point of view and then shut up.
I am not concerned of what you wrote, Jorgen, because I consider massive salvos a "gamey" thing, especially regarding box launchers.
This is due to the fact that while you can stack box launchers on ships or facs, the hardcoded beam weapons mechanics (max one shot every 5 seconds apart from gauss, limited range, 5 second rule further limiting max range etc) do not allow for interception at a longer range/faster fire rate. I understand the game logic behind this, but it does not fit my taste as I consider it a set of "unrealistic" limitations.
Against the AI, I'll stand by my convinction that AMM can be avoided. And I consider some missile leakage acceptable.
In the scenario you spoke of, then yes you need AMM too. It's something that will never happen in any of my campaign, because even when playing multiple races I'll not "abuse" box launchers to create such massive salvos. And if instead an enemy fields 500 facs against me and I don't have enough PD, then I deserve to lose.
Anyway, it's a single player game so I don't want to impose my views on other players Sorry, and carry on
Frankly I am not a fan of AMM.
Missiles are pretty expensive. Ordnance factories are usually needed for offensive missiles. If they were free, sure they're good, but they're not, they're competing with all your other needs and are pretty costly.
They also introduce a lot of "overhead". You have to produce them, rearm ships, you can run out if you're not in your systems etc. You may need to build colliers.
It's much more cost effective to have a few gauss/laser pd ships. AMM are only for when you're outgunning the enemy already, and/or are rich.
And of course for RP.
Frankly I am not a fan of AMM.If you outgun the enemy then you don't really need AMMs, but if they have a tech advantage then an AMM screen can thin out their ASMs enough that your beam PD has a chance to keep up. Finding the right balance still needs a fair bit of !SCIENCE! as the rules have changed (and are still changing).
Missiles are pretty expensive. Ordnance factories are usually needed for offensive missiles. If they were free, sure they're good, but they're not, they're competing with all your other needs and are pretty costly.
They also introduce a lot of "overhead". You have to produce them, rearm ships, you can run out if you're not in your systems etc. You may need to build colliers.
It's much more cost effective to have a few gauss/laser pd ships. AMM are only for when you're outgunning the enemy already, and/or are rich.
And of course for RP.