Posted by: Ehndras
« on: May 08, 2020, 11:23:41 PM »Apparently I've been playing 1.5.1 and not 1.9.0.
Posted by: Ehndras
« on: May 08, 2020, 11:06:48 PM »Thanks!!
Posted by: kks
« on: May 08, 2020, 06:12:56 PM »Garfunkel: Yeeeah... Guilty as charged.Appreciate the clarification.
HQ limits still confuse the smeg out of me.
Questions:
1) Current 20k HQ "FOB Phoenix" Formation has approx 20k size. Can it hold sub-formations, or do you need "extra" HQ capacity??
2) Does a formation's HQ get "used up" or can you attach however many sub-formations as long as they're under the top HQ element's command limit?
ie: 20k HQ size 20k template can NO sub-formation templates. - OR - HQ 20k can attach infinite sub-templates as long as they're <20k size, any higher and get penalized?
The HQ capacity is the maximum combined size of all units under that HQ in the hierachy can be. So : 50k HQ size 20k can subordinate 30k total HQ "points" before penalty
This also means that you need extra HQ capacity for e.g. Division HQs which should have battalions below them. For example a 10k Division HQ Formation with a 50k cap HQ and attached to this 4 10k Battalion Formations. The Battalions would then have 10k HQs. And they could have some company formations below themself or not.
Note that you can exceed the HQ capacity, but then the commanding bonuses will be penalised.
Posted by: Ehndras
« on: May 08, 2020, 06:04:58 PM »Garfunkel: Yeeeah... Guilty as charged. Appreciate the clarification.
HQ limits still confuse the smeg out of me.
Questions:
1) Current 20k HQ "FOB Phoenix" Formation has approx 20k size. Can it hold sub-formations, or do you need "extra" HQ capacity??
2) Does a formation's HQ get "used up" or can you attach however many sub-formations as long as they're under the top HQ element's command limit?
ie: 20k HQ size 20k template can NO sub-formation templates. 50k HQ size 20k can subordinate 30k total HQ "points" before penalty - OR - HQ 20k can attach infinite sub-templates as long as they're <20k size, any higher and get penalized?
Appreciate the clarification.HQ limits still confuse the smeg out of me.
Questions:
1) Current 20k HQ "FOB Phoenix" Formation has approx 20k size. Can it hold sub-formations, or do you need "extra" HQ capacity??
2) Does a formation's HQ get "used up" or can you attach however many sub-formations as long as they're under the top HQ element's command limit?
ie: 20k HQ size 20k template can NO sub-formation templates. 50k HQ size 20k can subordinate 30k total HQ "points" before penalty - OR - HQ 20k can attach infinite sub-templates as long as they're <20k size, any higher and get penalized?
Posted by: Garfunkel
« on: May 07, 2020, 08:04:24 PM »It's easy to get confused when people often mix the terms formation, element, and class up, not to mention "unit" itself is used in multiple contexts.
Class is what you design & research.
Formation is what you design & build.
Element is X * class inside a formation.
And formation can have multiple elements.
But an element cannot have multiple classes.
So each formation picks an opposing formation as its target and then goes through its elements - the shots of its elements picking a new target inside the targeted enemy formation. Hence why you want to have multiple elements in your formation because you cannot guarantee what it targets or what targets it in turn.
The only exception is if you're going for breakthroughs as then you do not want Static or Infantry with you.
Class is what you design & research.
Formation is what you design & build.
Element is X * class inside a formation.
And formation can have multiple elements.
But an element cannot have multiple classes.
So each formation picks an opposing formation as its target and then goes through its elements - the shots of its elements picking a new target inside the targeted enemy formation. Hence why you want to have multiple elements in your formation because you cannot guarantee what it targets or what targets it in turn.
The only exception is if you're going for breakthroughs as then you do not want Static or Infantry with you.
Posted by: Ehndras
« on: May 07, 2020, 07:55:48 PM »OH! Okay, that breakdown definitely helped. Didn't realize an element could hit multiple elements in an engagement, thanks for the info!
Posted by: Father Tim
« on: May 07, 2020, 07:50:25 AM »Does it, and its elements, behave differently depending whether it fights a bunch of smaller templates assigned to various positions / designations, as opposed to a universal template like itself?
Ugh! That's far too broad a question -- with too many variables -- to give much of a coherent answer.
Yes, but no.
Bombardment fire by bombardment rules. AA by AA rules. Units in Front-Line Attack function by front-line attack rules, and front-line defense by FLD rules, etc.
Unit type (infantry, vehicle, static, etc.) affects max fortification (and therefore speed of fortification), evasion, breakthrough chance/ability, and some other stuff. Target Armour & HP ratings affect what happens when they're hit -- and that's on a per-element basis, since a 'unit' can include any mix of any types. Your six-shot HCAP can 'hit' two INF-PW, one INF-LOG, one MVH-AA, and one STO twice.
A unit can only be in one 'place' at a time -- 100% of that unit is in FLA, or FLD, or SUP or REAR -- and if you can mange to divide it between multiple areas then that's not ONE unit any more, it's two (or three, or four, or whatever).
Posted by: Ehndras
« on: May 06, 2020, 07:15:56 PM »Understood. So the... Wait.
Say you have one template with at least one of every unit element possible. (ex: my FOB template)
Does it, and its elements, behave differently depending whether it fights a bunch of smaller templates assigned to various positions / designations, as opposed to a universal template like itself?
Say you have one template with at least one of every unit element possible. (ex: my FOB template)
Does it, and its elements, behave differently depending whether it fights a bunch of smaller templates assigned to various positions / designations, as opposed to a universal template like itself?
Posted by: JacenHan
« on: May 06, 2020, 05:54:36 PM »Jorgen_CAB beat me to it, but I might as well post this anyway.
Static units are treated like any other unit, so not rear-line only. Here is Steve's definition of what they are (from the C# changelog):
Static units are treated like any other unit, so not rear-line only. Here is Steve's definition of what they are (from the C# changelog):
Quote
Static in this sense is a weapon that is not self-mobile, such as a towed anti-tank gun, towed artillery, et cetera. Static weapons remain in place when firing so they are easier to hit than infantry or vehicles.They have fewer hit points and a higher hit modifier but can fortify to a higher level. They also have no breakthrough value.
Posted by: Jorgen_CAB
« on: May 06, 2020, 05:51:50 PM »Hmm. I'm confused. So a frontline infantry attack template with a static HQ (effectively a bunker) or a static heavy arty still counts as a front-line attack unit? Or do static elements act like they're in the rear or some such?That is the source of my confusion as well. It was my understanding that static units were rear-line only. I now simply don't understand.
I read the ground force engagement breakdown and watched the video tutorial and some bits still make me scratch my head.
A static unit have NOTHING to do with the position of a formation... it is just a unit type that is more or less immobile. It can be a bunker or simply just a piece of equipment that need some sort of prime mover to move around.
Static units get NO evasion if the formation it is in is set to "front line attack".
Static units can't shoot during a breakthrough event if I also remember correctly, or something to that effect.
Posted by: SpikeTheHobbitMage
« on: May 06, 2020, 05:44:31 PM »Hmm. I'm confused. So a frontline infantry attack template with a static HQ (effectively a bunker) or a static heavy arty still counts as a front-line attack unit? Or do static elements act like they're in the rear or some such?That is the source of my confusion as well. It was my understanding that static units were rear-line only. I now simply don't understand.
I read the ground force engagement breakdown and watched the video tutorial and some bits still make me scratch my head.
Posted by: Ehndras
« on: May 06, 2020, 05:13:33 PM »Hmm. I'm confused. So a frontline infantry attack template with a static HQ (effectively a bunker) or a static heavy arty still counts as a front-line attack unit? Or do static elements act like they're in the rear or some such?
I read the ground force engagement breakdown and watched the video tutorial and some bits still make me scratch my head.
I read the ground force engagement breakdown and watched the video tutorial and some bits still make me scratch my head.
Posted by: Father Tim
« on: May 06, 2020, 03:37:47 AM »The question was if giving a frontline unit a rearline static HQ invokes an admin penalty for the combat portion. I don't know the answer.
You can't.
You can subordinate a front-line unit to a support or rear area unit's HQ, but a unit -- that is, a Ground Force Template -- is 100% in one location. If you have a Battalion HQ in the rear and a Company with no HQ on the line, what you have is a unit with no HQ (and therefore no officer bonuses) subordinate to a higher-level HQ (at one-quarter of its officer's bonuses).
Posted by: SpikeTheHobbitMage
« on: May 04, 2020, 03:21:26 PM »It seems I misunderstood the 'Avoid Combat' flag. Thank you both for the correction.
Posted by: Jorgen_CAB
« on: May 04, 2020, 03:02:50 PM »The question was if giving a frontline unit a rearline static HQ invokes an admin penalty for the combat portion. I don't know the answer.So I agree INF HQ is definitely not worth it in larger formations. Is the unit penalized if it has static HQ and is in frontline attack or defense? I didn't try static HQs yet.
A Static unit have a *1 evasion while light vehicles have *0.4 evasion if they are in Frontline Attack position... so light vehicles are 60% more difficult to hit at that position. Static units are usually better otherwise as long as they are fortified and especially if they have heavy armour.
If you are invading a planet then light vehicles can be better when you have not been able to fortify the units properly. So both have a role to play...
If the smallest "formation" you have is a company of say 3000 size and you include an HQ in that formation it is automatically in the same position as the formation.
The Battalion HQ size 15000 on the other hand could be placed in say a support position and then include things like AA or bombardment elements within it's formation, if that is what you are asking?!?
