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Posted by: skoormit
« on: May 12, 2020, 03:43:50 PM »

Quote from: Father Tim on May 11, 2020, 10:59:13 AM
Quote from: Omnivore on May 10, 2020, 03:42:10 AM
That would be great... if it worked... and it does not work.  The auto research skips over prerequisites willy-nilly, the component designs give you 85 variants of magazines and duplicate identical weapon systems, and the ships.. hahahahahaha… it is obvious you have not tried it lately.


You're right; I haven't tried it.  I play Aurora to, y'know, play Aurora.  I'm not interested in skipping the part where I research techs and design components and build ships and direct my exploration efforts.  Aurora is not a tactical battle simulator, it's a 4X game.

And we wouldn't want anyone to have badwrongfun.
Posted by: kenlon
« on: May 11, 2020, 11:12:30 PM »

I'm pretty sure we know it's not in the game, given that it's being posted in the suggestions forum, doncha know.
Posted by: Father Tim
« on: May 11, 2020, 03:33:11 PM »

I'm not.

The original post was "it would be nice if we could have this thing" to which my reply was "Aurora does not currently have that thing; here's a workaround."
Posted by: kenlon
« on: May 11, 2020, 02:59:00 PM »

Which is still completely orthogonal to whether having an import/export feature for ship designs would be a useful thing to have, both at game start and later on in a playthrough. I've never used the SM to build ships, and I'd still find it handy.

It's not like it would actually cause you any inconvenience if it existed, why are you arguing against it?
Posted by: Father Tim
« on: May 11, 2020, 01:01:36 PM »

Quote from: Omnivore on May 11, 2020, 12:45:04 PM
You do realize it only does a part of the basic TN start setup - by default 80000 research points which it spends for you and then designs ships and ground units, you still have to spend the 44K or so build points, and can modify the designs?  You know the standard TN start, the accelerated one you use when you don't select conventional start?


Yes, I do realize that.  It is why I suggested TMaekler choose such a start and then modify the designs Aurora created to be more in line with his personal ship & tech philosophy.
Posted by: Omnivore
« on: May 11, 2020, 12:49:25 PM »

Quote from: davidr on May 11, 2020, 11:27:06 AM
Quote from: Father Tim on May 11, 2020, 10:59:13 AM
Quote from: Omnivore on May 10, 2020, 03:42:10 AM
That would be great... if it worked... and it does not work.  The auto research skips over prerequisites willy-nilly, the component designs give you 85 variants of magazines and duplicate identical weapon systems, and the ships.. hahahahahaha… it is obvious you have not tried it lately.


You're right; I haven't tried it.  I play Aurora to, y'know, play Aurora.  I'm not interested in skipping the part where I research techs and design components and build ships and direct my exploration efforts.  Aurora is not a tactical battle simulator, it's a 4X game.


I concur with Father Tim in the fact that I do not and will not use SM mode to magically give me massive fleets with the best Technology to roam the systems. I will build all my Shipyards from the ground up and research all the components from the base items without feeling the need to cheat. It may take me decades in game years to develop my Race but I enjoy the challenge.

DavidR

It is not SM, it is the default game start with setting the auto-research, auto-design checkboxes presumably intended to give you a quick and randomized preselection of techs and ship designs.  It is in fact the opposite of cheating, in VB it made for a harder game from the very start.
Posted by: Omnivore
« on: May 11, 2020, 12:45:04 PM »

Quote from: Father Tim on May 11, 2020, 10:59:13 AM
Quote from: Omnivore on May 10, 2020, 03:42:10 AM
That would be great... if it worked... and it does not work.  The auto research skips over prerequisites willy-nilly, the component designs give you 85 variants of magazines and duplicate identical weapon systems, and the ships.. hahahahahaha… it is obvious you have not tried it lately.


You're right; I haven't tried it.  I play Aurora to, y'know, play Aurora.  I'm not interested in skipping the part where I research techs and design components and build ships and direct my exploration efforts.  Aurora is not a tactical battle simulator, it's a 4X game.

You do realize it only does a part of the basic TN start setup - by default 80000 research points which it spends for you and then designs ships and ground units, you still have to spend the 44K or so build points, and can modify the designs?  You know the standard TN start, the accelerated one you use when you don't select conventional start? 

What it's not a battle simulator?  I've been deceived!!
Posted by: davidr
« on: May 11, 2020, 11:27:06 AM »

Quote from: Father Tim on May 11, 2020, 10:59:13 AM
Quote from: Omnivore on May 10, 2020, 03:42:10 AM
That would be great... if it worked... and it does not work.  The auto research skips over prerequisites willy-nilly, the component designs give you 85 variants of magazines and duplicate identical weapon systems, and the ships.. hahahahahaha… it is obvious you have not tried it lately.


You're right; I haven't tried it.  I play Aurora to, y'know, play Aurora.  I'm not interested in skipping the part where I research techs and design components and build ships and direct my exploration efforts.  Aurora is not a tactical battle simulator, it's a 4X game.


I concur with Father Tim in the fact that I do not and will not use SM mode to magically give me massive fleets with the best Technology to roam the systems. I will build all my Shipyards from the ground up and research all the components from the base items without feeling the need to cheat. It may take me decades in game years to develop my Race but I enjoy the challenge.

DavidR
Posted by: Father Tim
« on: May 11, 2020, 10:59:13 AM »

Quote from: Omnivore on May 10, 2020, 03:42:10 AM
That would be great... if it worked... and it does not work.  The auto research skips over prerequisites willy-nilly, the component designs give you 85 variants of magazines and duplicate identical weapon systems, and the ships.. hahahahahaha… it is obvious you have not tried it lately.


You're right; I haven't tried it.  I play Aurora to, y'know, play Aurora.  I'm not interested in skipping the part where I research techs and design components and build ships and direct my exploration efforts.  Aurora is not a tactical battle simulator, it's a 4X game.
Posted by: Omnivore
« on: May 10, 2020, 03:42:10 AM »

Quote from: Father Tim on May 07, 2020, 06:35:47 AM
And Aurora will happily do 'cargo hold + engines + shuttles' for you, or 'fuel tank + engines + refuelling system'.  And a colony ship.  And a tug.  And an ordnance carrier.  And a troop transport.  Et cetera.

In other words, skip all those boring and fiddly little steps that TMaekler was complaining about.  Want them to go faster?  Add an engine.  Want them all to be more fuel efficient?  Swap all the engines for new.

It doesn't matter if your starting destroyer goes 2222 km/s or 2400 km/s, and has a maintenance life of 2.71 years or 2.14 years.  If your FFG has nine launchers or seven launchers.

Initial designs are just that, initial, and whether or not they are 'good' depends on the stats of those you intend to fight.

So if your design philosophy calls for a fleet speed of 2000 km/s plus, then add engines to any designs that are slower.  Add armour layers if they don't meet your minimum.  Add maintenance storage and/or engineering to up life.  Add or remove deployment time, fuel storage, and magazine space.  Et cetera.

- - - - -

The solution -- in 1.9.5 C# Aurora -- to "I don't want to spend all this time re-creating my ship designs from scratch every game" is to let Aurora do the heavy lifting and then tweak the result to be 'good enough' to start.  Not the least because then you have the roleplaying opportunity of fixing your 'bad' initial designs.

That would be great... if it worked... and it does not work.  The auto research skips over prerequisites willy-nilly, the component designs give you 85 variants of magazines and duplicate identical weapon systems, and the ships.. hahahahahaha… it is obvious you have not tried it lately.

Posted by: kenlon
« on: May 10, 2020, 03:10:19 AM »

Oh, and another use for this feature just came up for me today. I want to test some theoretical designs (specifically, the interaction between commercial hangars and ships parked in them marked as tankers/supply ships/colliers), and if we had this I would be able to import the designs into a fresh game with all techs granted with SM and go from there, without any risk of messing up my current game by absentmindedly hitting save.
(And yes, I know I can just back up a copy of the DB before I start.)
Posted by: kenlon
« on: May 09, 2020, 11:02:25 AM »

Yes, and in each new game, you have to design your ships the whole game through, because, you know, there's no ability to have continuity from one to the next. I'm not sure what isn't blindingly obvious about this.
Posted by: Father Tim
« on: May 09, 2020, 06:24:46 AM »

Oh, probably from the phrase "designing of ships in every new game one starts."
Posted by: kenlon
« on: May 09, 2020, 12:59:59 AM »

And what about those of us who play conventional starts and have no prebuilt fleet? Or for when we want to use designs that we've used before later on in the game?

I don't know where you got the idea that this was something people want just for the beginning of the game.
Posted by: Father Tim
« on: May 07, 2020, 06:35:47 AM »

And Aurora will happily do 'cargo hold + engines + shuttles' for you, or 'fuel tank + engines + refuelling system'.  And a colony ship.  And a tug.  And an ordnance carrier.  And a troop transport.  Et cetera.

In other words, skip all those boring and fiddly little steps that TMaekler was complaining about.  Want them to go faster?  Add an engine.  Want them all to be more fuel efficient?  Swap all the engines for new.

It doesn't matter if your starting destroyer goes 2222 km/s or 2400 km/s, and has a maintenance life of 2.71 years or 2.14 years.  If your FFG has nine launchers or seven launchers.

Initial designs are just that, initial, and whether or not they are 'good' depends on the stats of those you intend to fight.

So if your design philosophy calls for a fleet speed of 2000 km/s plus, then add engines to any designs that are slower.  Add armour layers if they don't meet your minimum.  Add maintenance storage and/or engineering to up life.  Add or remove deployment time, fuel storage, and magazine space.  Et cetera.

- - - - -

The solution -- in 1.9.5 C# Aurora -- to "I don't want to spend all this time re-creating my ship designs from scratch every game" is to let Aurora do the heavy lifting and then tweak the result to be 'good enough' to start.  Not the least because then you have the roleplaying opportunity of fixing your 'bad' initial designs.