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Posted by: liveware
« on: May 21, 2020, 10:24:00 AM »

5 billion was the best range I could get with the maximum number of engines installed (seems 5k engines is a hard limit). Better engine tech than MP might give you something better. My plan was to just roam from colony -> gas giant -> colony -> gas giant and stabilizing any jump points needed in between as I go.

There is also 250k worth of hangar space available, so taking a refueling fleet along for the ride is a possibility.

I didn't realize a refueling hub doesn't allow for refueling planetside. I might have to try this concept out again and test it at a gas giant.
Posted by: SpikeTheHobbitMage
« on: May 17, 2020, 09:05:54 AM »

Quote from: liveware on May 15, 2020, 03:29:37 PM
The ship below IS game breakingly large:

Code: [Select]
Exodus class Migration Vessel      2,959,707,023 tons       5,938,794 Crew       33,647,068.2 BP       TCS 59,194,140    TH 16,000,000    EM 0
270 km/s      Armour 100-183629       Shields 0-0       HTK 527491      Sensors 11/11/0/0      DCR 1010      PPV 0
MSP 101,105    Max Repair 2400 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 250,000 tons     Cargo 1,000,000    Cryogenic Berths 200,000,000    Habitation Capacity 1,000,000,000    Passengers 10000000    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 10    Tractor Beam     
Rear Admiral (Lower Half)    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   SCI   DIP   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Flight Crew Berths 5,000   
Jump Point Stabilisation: 90 days
Recreational Facilities
Fuel Harvester: 2500 modules producing 100,000,000 litres per annum
Terraformer: 4000 modules producing 1 atm per annum
Orbital Miner: 2500 modules producing 25,000 tons per mineral per annum
Maintenance Modules: 250 module(s) capable of supporting ships of 250,000 tons
Refuelling Hub - Capable of refuelling multiple ships simultaneously
Ordnance Transfer Hub - Capable of transferring ordnance to multiple ships simultaneously

Shepherd-Jordan Commercial Magneto-plasma Drive  EP3200.00 (5000)    Power 16000000.0    Fuel Use 2.52%    Signature 3200.00    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 2,000,000,000 Litres    Range 4.8 billion km (207 days at full power)

Shepherd-Jordan CIWS-250 (1000x8)    Range 1000 km     TS: 25,000 km/s     ROF 5       
Shepherd-Jordan Active Search Sensor AS31-R50 (50%) (1)     GPS 1050     Range 31.6m km    Resolution 50
Shepherd-Jordan Active Search Sensor AS8-R1 (50%) (1)     GPS 21     Range 8.6m km    MCR 771.7k km    Resolution 1
Shepherd-Jordan Active Search Sensor AS50-R200 (50%) (1)     GPS 4200     Range 50.1m km    Resolution 200
Shepherd-Jordan EM Sensor EM1.0-11.0 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 11.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26.2m km
Shepherd-Jordan Thermal Sensor TH1.0-11.0 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 11.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26.2m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes


The game throws an error message about a number being to big/small for int32 whenever you try to view the class design, but it can be built via SM.  I was unable to make it any larger than shown due to the in32 error messages. However, even if built the ship is immobile because it cannot be refueled, even via SM refuel. It takes about 5 years to load all of the colonists that it can hold.

The cryo chambers seem to be the limiting factor. I could not add more than about 210 000 000 berths worth of cryo chambers before errors started to pop up.

A somewhat smaller version of this vessel might be interesting to attempt. Or if Mr Steve is feeling adventurous raising the int32 limit to int64 might also be interesting.
A refuelling hub allows other ships to refuel from it, which you probably want with this thing, but does not allow it to refuel from a colony.  It would either need a fuel handling system for that, or use tankers to handle the transfer.  I still award you full points for awesome.  :)
Posted by: vorpal+5
« on: May 17, 2020, 07:53:45 AM »

Amusing!

5 billions km for the range is not that big though, what if it had to traverse several systems without anything?
Posted by: liveware
« on: May 15, 2020, 03:29:37 PM »

The ship below IS game breakingly large:

Code: [Select]
Exodus class Migration Vessel      2,959,707,023 tons       5,938,794 Crew       33,647,068.2 BP       TCS 59,194,140    TH 16,000,000    EM 0
270 km/s      Armour 100-183629       Shields 0-0       HTK 527491      Sensors 11/11/0/0      DCR 1010      PPV 0
MSP 101,105    Max Repair 2400 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 250,000 tons     Cargo 1,000,000    Cryogenic Berths 200,000,000    Habitation Capacity 1,000,000,000    Passengers 10000000    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 10    Tractor Beam     
Rear Admiral (Lower Half)    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   SCI   DIP   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Flight Crew Berths 5,000   
Jump Point Stabilisation: 90 days
Recreational Facilities
Fuel Harvester: 2500 modules producing 100,000,000 litres per annum
Terraformer: 4000 modules producing 1 atm per annum
Orbital Miner: 2500 modules producing 25,000 tons per mineral per annum
Maintenance Modules: 250 module(s) capable of supporting ships of 250,000 tons
Refuelling Hub - Capable of refuelling multiple ships simultaneously
Ordnance Transfer Hub - Capable of transferring ordnance to multiple ships simultaneously

Shepherd-Jordan Commercial Magneto-plasma Drive  EP3200.00 (5000)    Power 16000000.0    Fuel Use 2.52%    Signature 3200.00    Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 2,000,000,000 Litres    Range 4.8 billion km (207 days at full power)

Shepherd-Jordan CIWS-250 (1000x8)    Range 1000 km     TS: 25,000 km/s     ROF 5       
Shepherd-Jordan Active Search Sensor AS31-R50 (50%) (1)     GPS 1050     Range 31.6m km    Resolution 50
Shepherd-Jordan Active Search Sensor AS8-R1 (50%) (1)     GPS 21     Range 8.6m km    MCR 771.7k km    Resolution 1
Shepherd-Jordan Active Search Sensor AS50-R200 (50%) (1)     GPS 4200     Range 50.1m km    Resolution 200
Shepherd-Jordan EM Sensor EM1.0-11.0 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 11.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26.2m km
Shepherd-Jordan Thermal Sensor TH1.0-11.0 (50%) (1)     Sensitivity 11.0     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  26.2m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes


The game throws an error message about a number being to big/small for int32 whenever you try to view the class design, but it can be built via SM.  I was unable to make it any larger than shown due to the in32 error messages. However, even if built the ship is immobile because it cannot be refueled, even via SM refuel. It takes about 5 years to load all of the colonists that it can hold.

The cryo chambers seem to be the limiting factor. I could not add more than about 210 000 000 berths worth of cryo chambers before errors started to pop up.

A somewhat smaller version of this vessel might be interesting to attempt. Or if Mr Steve is feeling adventurous raising the int32 limit to int64 might also be interesting.
Posted by: liveware
« on: May 15, 2020, 11:50:49 AM »

The more I think about this the more is starting to come back to me from the VB version a few years back.

I used SM to give myself 5-6 ships (not stations) with similar design parameters to what Spike listed above, except with commercial engines and cryo bays. I was channeling the General System Vehicles from the Culture book series so they were enormous ships. They had terraforming and I think orbital mining capabilities and I basically used them as seeds for new colonies and roamed around from system to system spreading mankind throughout the galaxy.

It worked rather well but caused a lot of cryptic error messages. Might work better in the C# version...
Posted by: DFNewb
« on: May 15, 2020, 11:35:36 AM »

I think this sort of playstyle is definitely possible, probably with Ion and equivalent tech and a lot of SM BP points. The fleet would be required to make stops in systems (specifically at bodies) to overhaul ships and stabilize jump points as I think the ships might have to be bigger than the largest possible jump drives. There would need to be a supporting civ fleet of tugs, tankers, cargo ships, colony ships, commercial hanger and recreation and maintenance component that allows overhauls. Some of these ships would probably be quite slow as well so you will need to keep them safe from NPR's.


It would be less of a homeworld mothership thing and more of a battlestar galactica thing. You have to understand that space to store all the ships in homeworld is clearly not calculated realistically and there is no way to produce ships out of another ship in Aurora you need space complexes so tugs to move them too.
Posted by: liveware
« on: May 15, 2020, 11:08:43 AM »

Quote from: vorpal+5 on May 15, 2020, 01:52:36 AM
You can only build new ships in shipyards, unless fighters. If you can't rebuild a lost ship, then you got a problem.

It's possible to tow shipyards with tugs, which you would presumably have for towing your sodding huge space station.

For wealth generation, you could always amass a huge fortune planetside, then pick up and relocate to another planet or moon, possibly with some terraforming capabilities. This doesn't give you a deep space habitat, but you might RP that your giant terraforming space station just orbits a large rock for convenience of access to resources, or ground based tourism or something.

Do asteroids work with orbital habs? That might make for an interesting approach.
Posted by: DFNewb
« on: May 15, 2020, 10:48:44 AM »

Quote from: liveware on May 14, 2020, 10:23:08 PM
Quote from: SpikeTheHobbitMage on May 14, 2020, 07:35:38 PM
Challenge accepted.
Code: [Select]
Heliopolis class Colony      1,250,468,209 tons       76,010 Crew       529,124.7 BP       TCS 25,009,364    TH 0    EM 0
1 km/s      No Armour       Shields 0-0     HTK 64719      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 0
MSP 0    Max Repair 2000 MSP
Habitation Capacity 500,000,000   
Kaigun-Ch?sa    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months   
Recreational Facilities


This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Space Station for construction purposes
Orbital habitats don't seem to contribute to colony population caps unless there are already people there and the people get left behind when you move the station.  In particular, a deep space colony doesn't seem to be possible.  :(

Nice.

I think I messed around with something similar in SM mode in VB6. I remember it didn't really work the way I wanted it too but I don't recall exactly why not. What you describe sounds vaguely familiar... maybe try adding cryo chambers and putting everyone to sleep before relocating the habitat?

Yea you will need to do that to move them.
Posted by: vorpal+5
« on: May 15, 2020, 01:52:36 AM »

I don't think the whole concept is viable because of 2 reasons:

You can only build new ships in shipyards, unless fighters. If you can't rebuild a lost ship, then you got a problem. Plus you might want to have a battlefleet, Homeworld style, at some point, if you encounter a 'point of contention' ...
You can only generate wealth by having deployed population or financial centers.

You'll have to fix both of these 'issues' to make a truly nomadic race viable. A behemoth moving one billion pop in cryo that stop a few years to create shipyards from nothing and enough wealth to burn through the next leap* to another system, perhaps...


*: And by leap I mean you have a parasite stabilizing a wormhole, the Jump Drive approaches is too limiting in size.
Posted by: liveware
« on: May 14, 2020, 10:23:08 PM »

Quote from: SpikeTheHobbitMage on May 14, 2020, 07:35:38 PM
Challenge accepted.
Code: [Select]
Heliopolis class Colony      1,250,468,209 tons       76,010 Crew       529,124.7 BP       TCS 25,009,364    TH 0    EM 0
1 km/s      No Armour       Shields 0-0     HTK 64719      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 0
MSP 0    Max Repair 2000 MSP
Habitation Capacity 500,000,000   
Kaigun-Ch?sa    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months   
Recreational Facilities


This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Space Station for construction purposes
Orbital habitats don't seem to contribute to colony population caps unless there are already people there and the people get left behind when you move the station.  In particular, a deep space colony doesn't seem to be possible.  :(

Nice.

I think I messed around with something similar in SM mode in VB6. I remember it didn't really work the way I wanted it too but I don't recall exactly why not. What you describe sounds vaguely familiar... maybe try adding cryo chambers and putting everyone to sleep before relocating the habitat?
Posted by: SpikeTheHobbitMage
« on: May 14, 2020, 07:35:38 PM »

Challenge accepted.
Code: [Select]
Heliopolis class Colony      1,250,468,209 tons       76,010 Crew       529,124.7 BP       TCS 25,009,364    TH 0    EM 0
1 km/s      No Armour       Shields 0-0     HTK 64719      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 1      PPV 0
MSP 0    Max Repair 2000 MSP
Habitation Capacity 500,000,000   
Kaigun-Ch?sa    Control Rating 1   BRG   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months   
Recreational Facilities


This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Space Station for construction purposes
Orbital habitats don't seem to contribute to colony population caps unless there are already people there and the people get left behind when you move the station.  In particular, a deep space colony doesn't seem to be possible.  :(
Posted by: liveware
« on: May 14, 2020, 06:39:59 PM »

At 500 kton per orbital hab module, and 200 k population per module, in order to support 500 million population you would need 2500 modules on your hab station. That would be 1250000 ktons just in hab modules (assuming I did my math correctly).

I'm thinking a station capable of holding 500 million population would be game-breakingly large.
Posted by: spazomatic
« on: April 20, 2020, 01:59:31 PM »

ok, well that just takes all the fun out of it  ;D

The last few games I have played I just use jump engines so that hadn't actually occurred to me, but it would still be a ridiculously large ship to achieve any meaningful level of population
Posted by: Father Tim
« on: April 20, 2020, 12:56:58 PM »

Quote from: DoctorDanny on April 20, 2020, 12:09:36 PM
I'm not really sure on how stabilized jump points work. Is there an upper mass they allow through?

Nope.

Quote from: DoctorDanny link=topic=10774.msg126135#msg126135

If not then you can simply use stabilization modules to stabilize new points and move your Hive ship through without a jump drive.

Yup.
Posted by: Alsadius
« on: April 20, 2020, 12:39:13 PM »

Quote from: DoctorDanny on April 20, 2020, 12:09:36 PM
I'm not really sure on how stabilized jump points work. Is there an upper mass they allow through?
If not then you can simply use stabilization modules to stabilize new points and move your Hive ship through without a jump drive.

And a stabilization module is way lighter than a max-size jump engine, too.