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Posted by: Graymane
« on: May 31, 2020, 03:16:14 PM »

Thanks everyone, I've gotten a lot of great ideas reading through the threads.  I underestimated the power of refits.  It makes me less afraid of creating ships.  I decided to start normal with one other NPR after reading about the warnings some gave me.  I SMed some starting techs that I wanted (mainly things like harvesters, modules and the like) and set research speed to 5% for after that.  It has been a much more interesting game for me.  Thanks again everyone!
Posted by: misanthropope
« on: May 30, 2020, 10:57:41 PM »

because of how central engine tech is in aurora, i have always found ship generations occur pretty naturally.

let's say you're sitting on an ion engine fleet and are contemplating magneto's plasma.  OK.  make a list of the military techs that are higher-priority than the subsequent engine (Internal Fusion I mean, in this example).  by higher priority, i mean "more worth the effort than accelerating my timetable for IF engines".  Personally, i'd have a reasonable number of 8k techs, and very few 15k ones, in the queue between MP and IF engine projects; i've learned to be fanatical about engines, ymmv.

Once you have that list, you know what your next gen capabilities are going to be, and probably have a good guess what the actual ships will look like.  then you ask yourself:  what C/P stuff will (net) speed up the delivery of this bolus of bountiful belligerence?  you really gotta play this one by ear, since youre spending research time to save shipyard and factory time so it's hugely circumstantial.  but, you pays your money, you takes your chances.  and now you have a gameplan for a whole ship-generation cycle:  the CP research period, the giant exertion of the next engine project, and the follow-up scrabbling to get a tolerable assortment of toys to strap to those cool new engines.  as you're laying down those new ship classes, you're maybe eking a last bit of military power out of your labs, the ground forces research and upgrading your missile tech.  new ships start coming out of the slips, go find a civilization to ruin, and start the whole beautiful thing over.

eventually there comes a time when having your best two PP scientists using maximum labs on engines and plants doesn't put a critical strain on, well, everything else.  at that point generations pretty much go out the window, but in VB6 that was about the time the universe collapsed, so i look forward to dealing with that particular "problem".
Posted by: skoormit
« on: May 30, 2020, 10:05:48 PM »

Quote from: liveware on May 29, 2020, 09:51:36 PM
Quote from: Ulzgoroth on May 29, 2020, 08:53:33 PM
Quote from: liveware on May 29, 2020, 08:29:52 PM
Quote from: Thrake on May 29, 2020, 05:14:11 PM
Build with wathever techs you have and call it a day. It doesn't matter that your ships will be obsolated later on, just refit them.

This. This concept is entirely plausible and somewhat realistic. It's depressing to think about too deeply however...
There's another game I've been playing that's helped accustom me to the idea, but Aurora doesn't have some of the aspects that help set the pace there. (Rule the Waves II. For most of the game you've got to always at least have the next generation of battleships under construction or you'll have a dire capability gap in about three years time.)

You might find this article interesting: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Dakota-class_battleship_(1939)

...

I should also perhaps note that in my youth I had the opportunity to tour USS Massachusetts.  Even today she remains an impressive artifact.

The U.S.S. Alabama is in Mobile Bay, and open to the public. I've gone a few times, as recently as a few years ago.
Each time I am more impressed.
Posted by: Elouda
« on: May 30, 2020, 05:14:15 AM »

I tend to do 'generations' every 2 engine techs until Fusion, and then once per engine tech. Other tech keeps up or it doesnt, but as the engines determine so much in terms of design, I like to use those as a milestone.

Quote from: liveware on May 29, 2020, 09:51:36 PM
You might find this article interesting: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Dakota-class_battleship_(1939)

It discussed some of the research and development limitations faced by one of the largest battleships ever produced. It took nearly 25 years to produce these ships from their initial inception and their designs were constrained by several global political factors, notably total tonnage, gun size, and gun number.

I find this design interesting because it was the best available 'off the shelf' design in the US arsenal at the outbreak of WWII. So from a practical standpoint it is a balance between best available technology and industrial capability. Combat testing revealed design deficiencies however these ships were expected to be highly capable when produced.

I should also perhaps note that in my youth I had the opportunity to tour USS Massachusetts.  Even today she remains an impressive artifact.

The choice of name is about as far as the relationship between the pre-Washington Treaty South Dakota and the pre-WW2 South Dakota goes. Design work on the pre-WW2 design started in 1937, and its essentially an improved North Carolina.
Posted by: vorpal+5
« on: May 29, 2020, 10:49:27 PM »

I tend to call a tech epoch what costs the same. So once I have defined the design(s) philosophy of my fleet, I research say all the necessary techs that would cost 4000 RP for example. Once that's done, I design my ships, shift my labs to researches which are not ship components (so productivity techs, etc.) so that the time gap is further increased.

Once I feel I have paused enough ship techs, I browse the tech tree to see what will be my next stop, like 8000 RP or so, and start again.
Posted by: liveware
« on: May 29, 2020, 09:51:36 PM »

Quote from: Ulzgoroth on May 29, 2020, 08:53:33 PM
Quote from: liveware on May 29, 2020, 08:29:52 PM
Quote from: Thrake on May 29, 2020, 05:14:11 PM
Build with wathever techs you have and call it a day. It doesn't matter that your ships will be obsolated later on, just refit them.

This. This concept is entirely plausible and somewhat realistic. It's depressing to think about too deeply however...
There's another game I've been playing that's helped accustom me to the idea, but Aurora doesn't have some of the aspects that help set the pace there. (Rule the Waves II. For most of the game you've got to always at least have the next generation of battleships under construction or you'll have a dire capability gap in about three years time.)

You might find this article interesting: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Dakota-class_battleship_(1939)

It discussed some of the research and development limitations faced by one of the largest battleships ever produced. It took nearly 25 years to produce these ships from their initial inception and their designs were constrained by several global political factors, notably total tonnage, gun size, and gun number.

I find this design interesting because it was the best available 'off the shelf' design in the US arsenal at the outbreak of WWII. So from a practical standpoint it is a balance between best available technology and industrial capability. Combat testing revealed design deficiencies however these ships were expected to be highly capable when produced.

I should also perhaps note that in my youth I had the opportunity to tour USS Massachusetts.  Even today she remains an impressive artifact.
Posted by: Pedroig
« on: May 29, 2020, 09:50:10 PM »

RTW I and II both helps with this.  Strangely, building capital ships with planned obsolescence in mind is not a bad idea, So your Nuclear Pulse engine ships/tech levels would be some early game "front line" ships, but by the time you are in Ion/M-P they would be back system defense/PPV only units, with "retirement" in a few years. 

Bottom line, is to get whatever you can support, until you run dry of supply minerals...
Posted by: liveware
« on: May 29, 2020, 09:40:46 PM »

One thing I like about Aurora is that it punishes poor planning with regards to research and industrial development. You might be able field a ginormous navy from your 500k ton naval yard, but maintaining it is whole other strategic consideration. Research is a similar beast.
Posted by: Ulzgoroth
« on: May 29, 2020, 08:53:33 PM »

Quote from: liveware on May 29, 2020, 08:29:52 PM
Quote from: Thrake on May 29, 2020, 05:14:11 PM
Build with wathever techs you have and call it a day. It doesn't matter that your ships will be obsolated later on, just refit them.

This. This concept is entirely plausible and somewhat realistic. It's depressing to think about too deeply however...
There's another game I've been playing that's helped accustom me to the idea, but Aurora doesn't have some of the aspects that help set the pace there. (Rule the Waves II. For most of the game you've got to always at least have the next generation of battleships under construction or you'll have a dire capability gap in about three years time.)
Posted by: liveware
« on: May 29, 2020, 08:29:52 PM »

Quote from: Thrake on May 29, 2020, 05:14:11 PM
Build with wathever techs you have and call it a day. It doesn't matter that your ships will be obsolated later on, just refit them.

This. This concept is entirely plausible and somewhat realistic. It's depressing to think about too deeply however...
Posted by: kenlon
« on: May 29, 2020, 08:21:48 PM »

Quote from: Graymane on May 29, 2020, 12:48:25 PM
Being fairly new to the game, I struggle with really building much in the way of ships as I am always waiting for just one more tech.

The fix for that is actually very simple: Slow down your research rate. I play on 15-25% research speed, and it means that you end up with eras of tech in a very natural way.
Posted by: Froggiest1982
« on: May 29, 2020, 07:56:57 PM »

Quote from: Graymane on May 29, 2020, 12:48:25 PM
Being fairly new to the game, I struggle with really building much in the way of ships as I am always waiting for just one more tech.  I think I should just SM what I want and go from there ;).  I generally start conventional and research and build from scratch.  For the more experienced, are there general tech epochs or "levels" you aim for for different things (armor, engines, weapons, etc) being that there is so much to research?  Or do you just wait and see what you encounter first?  Since I start without TN tech, I set non-player races to 0.  I'm assuming that when I explore, they will spawn at my tech level?

I think Aurora is more grindy that you think. Especially now that you can easily deal with 50 to 70 systems in the first game hours building is the key.

As your production should always bu busy building at 5% all most important structures such as construction factories, automines, research labs etc with accasionally boost of single important projects so your shipyards should be always busy in expanding capacity, slots or building ships.

If you play without NPR at start (as I do) you actually need more ships as the NPR generated after will have strenght based on a formula that will consider not only your base tech and population but also the time passed since start.

You could soon find yourself in the unconfortable position of simply not being able to close the gap with your opponent assuming he is hostile.

Remember that NPR here play same rules as we do, when they discover you they have 0 intel and if they see 100 ships in the system they may back up even if they are technologically superior. This means also that speed is very important as the AI might decide to take its chances if it thinks he can outrun you if things go down the drain with a first strike.

Also release new classes after having been spotted as well it's a good idea to keep the AI on its toes with intelligence.
Posted by: Conscript Gary
« on: May 29, 2020, 07:54:08 PM »

I find that engine tech jumps are a good benchmark , since they impact so many things: Ship speed/mission fraction, missiles, beam weapon capability indirectly through speed, power plants, and civilian designs. Engines are also often large enough components that it's impossible or expensive to simply refit existing designs.
Posted by: Ri0Rdian
« on: May 29, 2020, 06:43:06 PM »

I have the same problem, even after years of playing Aurora (generally in many other games too, but here it is much more extreme). Since I am not playing any standard games most of the time (population, research speed and similar), I usually do not start with NPR too. And there is always the new better tech, so why should I build a ship now, right?

I somehow solved it (more like a band-aid waiting to burst one day due to bad luck) by at least building Jump Point Defence platforms. I use pairs and each single one can engage 3 targets at once (or focus one REALLY unlucky fellow). This way even if I stumble upon enemy, he is aggressive and I have no fleet I am in quite good position, nothing ever came through to slap me for being too naive without a fleet. Getting through a JP is generally hard if it is properly defended so that is the best force multiplier you can have.

I usually HAVE some military design ready to produce, buys me at least half a year or so. Usually shares lots of stuff with my JP bases though, so not really a great ship in general, more like mobile version of it.
Posted by: QuakeIV
« on: May 29, 2020, 06:08:04 PM »

I tend to cut back on research rate quite a lot (and spread my labs between a lot of different projects) to extend the amount of time between techs so that its more worth building stuff.