Post reply

Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

Note: this post will not display until it's been approved by a moderator.

Name:
Email:
Subject:
Message icon:

shortcuts: hit alt+s to submit/post or alt+p to preview

Please read the rules before you post!


Topic Summary

Posted by: bdub1
« on: August 30, 2021, 04:57:55 PM »

Quote from: nuclearslurpee link=topic=12640. msg153810#msg153810 date=1627257143
A couple small things.  First, while it probably doesn't matter too much since max tech is usually the "I win" button, at least vs NPRs, the propulsion sections here are a little bit small at only 27% of total ship mass.  Could get some more out of that.

Second, it's worth noting that Gauss weapons are most effective at smaller sizes and single-turreted configurations, due to salvo overkill losses.  Generally size 1 HS and below is most optimal, but at max tech it may be even lower due to ROF 8 tech, I'm not sure.  As a bonus, reducing the gun/turret size also allows a bit more flexibility when configuring ships that will mount them.

Finally, given max tech I would probably think about pushing the BFC range to 200 kkm to gain some accuracy points for PD fire.  With this high volume of fire a better BFC pays off a lot.

Thank you, i was mostly guessing, figuring by eye that looked good enough, i'll remember that.
For now though I've moved onto a regular campaign
Next i'd've the posted cruisers but eh, they're just missile boats
Posted by: Droll
« on: July 26, 2021, 05:21:51 AM »

Quote from: kilo on July 26, 2021, 01:02:34 AM
Smaller Gauss turrets are extremely good. I have not done the math, whether it is better to build quad turrets with low chance to hit or a single turret with 4 times the chance to hit though. Larger turrets give you a turret rotating gear efficiency bonus. This might be an argument for extremely small Gauss.

I think this only becomes noticeably better on large/dedicated PD ships via economies of scale. I don't think this'll make too much of a different across a couple turrets.
Posted by: kilo
« on: July 26, 2021, 01:02:34 AM »

Smaller Gauss turrets are extremely good. I have not done the math, whether it is better to build quad turrets with low chance to hit or a single turret with 4 times the chance to hit though. Larger turrets give you a turret rotating gear efficiency bonus. This might be an argument for extremely small Gauss.
Posted by: nuclearslurpee
« on: July 25, 2021, 06:52:23 PM »

A couple small things. First, while it probably doesn't matter too much since max tech is usually the "I win" button, at least vs NPRs, the propulsion sections here are a little bit small at only 27% of total ship mass. Could get some more out of that.

Second, it's worth noting that Gauss weapons are most effective at smaller sizes and single-turreted configurations, due to salvo overkill losses. Generally size 1 HS and below is most optimal, but at max tech it may be even lower due to ROF 8 tech, I'm not sure. As a bonus, reducing the gun/turret size also allows a bit more flexibility when configuring ships that will mount them.

Finally, given max tech I would probably think about pushing the BFC range to 200 kkm to gain some accuracy points for PD fire. With this high volume of fire a better BFC pays off a lot.
Posted by: bdub1
« on: July 25, 2021, 06:21:43 PM »

So, moving up yet again, to my first "mainline" fleet design.
They make good PD vessels it seems, but also excellent close range brawlers due to the Gauss cannons. . . .  64 shots per ship, every 5 seconds. . . .  Especially useful for dispatching transports.
First up, the leader.

I produce these in 6 ship wings, with 1 leader and 5 regular ships. 

Code: [Select]
Koln (L) class Destroyer Leader      15,000 tons       409 Crew       26,512.3 BP       TCS 300    TH 80    EM 3,000
26666 km/s      Armour 10-54       Shields 100-200       HTK 156      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 76      PPV 50.71
Maint Life 3.18 Years     MSP 21,749    AFR 112%    IFR 1.6%    1YR 3,243    5YR 48,641    Max Repair 8000 MSP
Magazine 787   
Kapitan zur See    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   FLG   
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Morale Check Required   

Schutt Drive Systems Photonic Drive  EP4000.00 (2)    Power 8000    Fuel Use 5.00%    Signature 40.00    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 550,000 Litres    Range 132 billion km (57 days at full power)
Eisenhauer Defence Tau S100 / R200 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 200 seconds (0.5 per second)

Quad Rosenberger-Jahn Kinetics Gauss Cannon R600-100 Turret (1x32)    Range 60,000km     TS: 100000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 60,000 km    ROF 5       
Laugel Electronic Systems Beam Fire Control R88-TS100000 (1)     Max Range: 87,500 km   TS: 100,000 km/s     89 77 66 54 43 31 20 9 0 0

Schaefer-Altdorf Armaments Size 1 Missile Launcher (75.00% Reduction) (20)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 5
Miller Sensor Systems Missile Fire Control FC185-R1 (5%) (1)     Range 185.4m km    Resolution 1
Stolz AMM (787)    Speed: 270,000 km/s    End: 0.6m     Range: 9.5m km    WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 7380/4428/2214

Schiffer Warning & Control Active Search Sensor AS359-R1 (1)     GPS 5400     Range 359m km    MCR 32.3m km    Resolution 1

Compact ECCM-10 (1)         ECM 100
Yeah, look at those hit chances. . . .

Anyway, the main DD class.

Code: [Select]
Koln class Destroyer      15,000 tons       362 Crew       21,572.1 BP       TCS 300    TH 80    EM 3,000
26666 km/s      Armour 10-54       Shields 100-200       HTK 219      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 76      PPV 86.42
Maint Life 3.30 Years     MSP 19,451    AFR 112%    IFR 1.6%    1YR 2,700    5YR 40,502    Max Repair 8000 MSP
Magazine 787   
Kapitan zur See    Control Rating 3   BRG   AUX   ENG   
Intended Deployment Time: 24 months    Morale Check Required   

Schutt Drive Systems Photonic Drive  EP4000.00 (2)    Power 8000    Fuel Use 5.00%    Signature 40.00    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 550,000 Litres    Range 132 billion km (57 days at full power)
Eisenhauer Defence Tau S100 / R200 Shields (1)     Recharge Time 200 seconds (0.5 per second)

Quad Rosenberger-Jahn Kinetics Gauss Cannon R600-100 Turret (2x32)    Range 60,000km     TS: 100000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 60,000 km    ROF 5       
Laugel Electronic Systems Beam Fire Control R88-TS100000 (1)     Max Range: 87,500 km   TS: 100,000 km/s     89 77 66 54 43 31 20 9 0 0

Schaefer-Altdorf Armaments Size 1 Missile Launcher (75.00% Reduction) (20)     Missile Size: 1    Rate of Fire 5
Miller Sensor Systems Missile Fire Control FC185-R1 (5%) (1)     Range 185.4m km    Resolution 1
Stolz AMM (787)    Speed: 270,000 km/s    End: 0.6m     Range: 9.5m km    WH: 1    Size: 1    TH: 7380/4428/2214

Compact ECCM-10 (1)         ECM 100
Not too diffeerent, simply another Gauss turret instead of the AMM sensor and the flag bridge.

Idk, i like showing my ship designs, crap as they are.
Posted by: bdub1
« on: July 25, 2021, 06:10:32 PM »

Quote from: Droll link=topic=12640. msg153635#msg153635 date=1626366866
Quote from: nuclearslurpee link=topic=12640. msg153631#msg153631 date=1626364471
Quote from: Droll link=topic=12640. msg153615#msg153615 date=1626349926
No I made damn-well sure that the IDs were all unique, I'm trying to mod the game not break it.  That said, you've made me think, in 1. 13 what I did was add all the techs on the default "Terran Federation" placeholder game before I made the actual game that I'm playing on now.  The game generates unique versions of all spoilers for each game, so if I were to hazard a guess, the game saw these new normal looking techs and decided to just add them into the tech of the newly generated spoilers.

Wonder if that's it. . . if the game looks for a tech line and picks the highest-tier tech, then for example if you have a tech line that goes CAP-HCAP-SuperCAP that might be the logic the game uses to end up with SuperCAP-equipped NPRs and spoilers.

As a final note, when adding techs the game looks at the RP development cost of the tech, as a way of "balancing" a lot of the techs I added were very RP expensive - which supports what you're saying, the game picks the most expensive as the highest tier tech, I've seen this both on armor as well as engines (specifically missile engines).

Indeed
Iv had a similarly modded db, and it applies to nprs too, if you give them a lot of starting tech points they will usue the modded techs. . .  which can be scary
They usually focus on ngine and armour tech as well, maybe some priority is given to those in the random tech selection
Posted by: bdub1
« on: July 25, 2021, 06:00:47 PM »

Quote from: gpt3 link=topic=12640. msg153583#msg153583 date=1626277831
Quote from: bdub1 link=topic=12640.  msg153541#msg153541 date=1626162998
Also missiles are capped a 270kkps, which is.  .  .  .  .   0.  9c

The maximum BFC tracking speed is 25,000 km/s, which means that the beam point-defense can handle 100,000 km/s (~0.  3c).  I guess that means that AMMs are best for endgame point-defense, although beam PD should still be able to get a >50% hit rate on your example ASM.

yeha at this point amms are definetly the best pd, as you can stuff so much stuff into an s1 missile that, its kind of overkill even for 270kkps missiles.
My next ship post will be pd dstroyers and. . . .  yeah
Posted by: Droll
« on: July 15, 2021, 11:34:26 AM »

Quote from: nuclearslurpee on July 15, 2021, 10:54:31 AM
Quote from: Droll on July 15, 2021, 06:52:06 AM
No I made damn-well sure that the IDs were all unique, I'm trying to mod the game not break it. That said, you've made me think, in 1.13 what I did was add all the techs on the default "Terran Federation" placeholder game before I made the actual game that I'm playing on now. The game generates unique versions of all spoilers for each game, so if I were to hazard a guess, the game saw these new normal looking techs and decided to just add them into the tech of the newly generated spoilers.

Wonder if that's it...if the game looks for a tech line and picks the highest-tier tech, then for example if you have a tech line that goes CAP-HCAP-SuperCAP that might be the logic the game uses to end up with SuperCAP-equipped NPRs and spoilers.

As a final note, when adding techs the game looks at the RP development cost of the tech, as a way of "balancing" a lot of the techs I added were very RP expensive - which supports what you're saying, the game picks the most expensive as the highest tier tech, I've seen this both on armor as well as engines (specifically missile engines).
Posted by: nuclearslurpee
« on: July 15, 2021, 10:54:31 AM »

Quote from: Droll on July 15, 2021, 06:52:06 AM
No I made damn-well sure that the IDs were all unique, I'm trying to mod the game not break it. That said, you've made me think, in 1.13 what I did was add all the techs on the default "Terran Federation" placeholder game before I made the actual game that I'm playing on now. The game generates unique versions of all spoilers for each game, so if I were to hazard a guess, the game saw these new normal looking techs and decided to just add them into the tech of the newly generated spoilers.

Wonder if that's it...if the game looks for a tech line and picks the highest-tier tech, then for example if you have a tech line that goes CAP-HCAP-SuperCAP that might be the logic the game uses to end up with SuperCAP-equipped NPRs and spoilers.
Posted by: Droll
« on: July 15, 2021, 06:52:06 AM »

Quote from: nuclearslurpee on July 14, 2021, 09:58:31 PM
Quote from: Droll on July 14, 2021, 08:04:40 PM
There is no way to control which components they use from what I understand, but I added this OP CAP weapon with 12 shots, the only component with 12 shots and after fighting some spoilers I checked the intel screen and was seeing weapons with 12 shots on their units (im talking both rakhas and precursors). That's the only way I even know they're using "modded" components.

I'm curious how this happened at all...from what I understood the NPRs should be using hardcoded designs whether in the DB or executable. Did you by any chance replace an existing weapon type or use the same ID as an existing weapon (as in, for example, used ID#3 for the super-CAP and reshuffled HCAP to some other ID)?

Obviously this sort of thing would easily break the game, but it could also be an...interesting tool especially for multiple-player-race games when regular NPRs don't need to exist or function.

No I made damn-well sure that the IDs were all unique, I'm trying to mod the game not break it. That said, you've made me think, in 1.13 what I did was add all the techs on the default "Terran Federation" placeholder game before I made the actual game that I'm playing on now. The game generates unique versions of all spoilers for each game, so if I were to hazard a guess, the game saw these new normal looking techs and decided to just add them into the tech of the newly generated spoilers.
Posted by: nuclearslurpee
« on: July 14, 2021, 09:58:31 PM »

Quote from: Droll on July 14, 2021, 08:04:40 PM
There is no way to control which components they use from what I understand, but I added this OP CAP weapon with 12 shots, the only component with 12 shots and after fighting some spoilers I checked the intel screen and was seeing weapons with 12 shots on their units (im talking both rakhas and precursors). That's the only way I even know they're using "modded" components.

I'm curious how this happened at all...from what I understood the NPRs should be using hardcoded designs whether in the DB or executable. Did you by any chance replace an existing weapon type or use the same ID as an existing weapon (as in, for example, used ID#3 for the super-CAP and reshuffled HCAP to some other ID)?

Obviously this sort of thing would easily break the game, but it could also be an...interesting tool especially for multiple-player-race games when regular NPRs don't need to exist or function.
Posted by: Droll
« on: July 14, 2021, 08:04:40 PM »

Quote from: nuclearslurpee on July 14, 2021, 12:24:57 PM
Quote from: Droll on July 14, 2021, 11:53:47 AM
Added advanced ground components like "advanced CAP" which has 12 shots (to my surprise spoilers actually use this) and advanced PW which has 2 shots

Wait how???

Is there an easy way to control what tech or components the spoilers, or even NPRs in general use?

There is no way to control which components they use from what I understand, but I added this OP CAP weapon with 12 shots, the only component with 12 shots and after fighting some spoilers I checked the intel screen and was seeing weapons with 12 shots on their units (im talking both rakhas and precursors). That's the only way I even know they're using "modded" components.
Posted by: nuclearslurpee
« on: July 14, 2021, 12:24:57 PM »

Quote from: Droll on July 14, 2021, 11:53:47 AM
Added advanced ground components like "advanced CAP" which has 12 shots (to my surprise spoilers actually use this) and advanced PW which has 2 shots

Wait how???

Is there an easy way to control what tech or components the spoilers, or even NPRs in general use?
Posted by: Droll
« on: July 14, 2021, 11:53:47 AM »

Quote from: Borealis4x on July 14, 2021, 11:45:21 AM
u bother to add corpo names to parts when you're just playing around? You are more patient than me.

Has anyone ever actually gotten to max tech? By then the game has slowed to a crawl I imagine.

Naturally no, but by DB editing magic I have gone beyond max tech.

As examples EM and TH passive sensitivity techs are extended from 75 to 150
I added an OP armor tech that gives racial armor of 90 for ground combat
Added advanced ground components like "advanced CAP" which has 12 shots (to my surprise spoilers actually use this) and advanced PW which has 2 shots
Shield regen and capacity techs are extended.
New engine tier thats 50% faster than photonic with associated power plant tech.
Particle lance and railgun turrets.
Advanced ECM/ECCM upto lvl 10 for fighters.
50000 km/s turret and FC tracking
and more...

Obviously I can't report any bugs like this but it works quite well. Costs scale properly and no bug exceptions have fired over multiple 100+ year campaigns over both 1.12 and 1.13, the ones that do fire are ones that I can reproduce in vanilla.
Posted by: Borealis4x
« on: July 14, 2021, 11:45:21 AM »

u bother to add corpo names to parts when you're just playing around? You are more patient than me.

Has anyone ever actually gotten to max tech? By then the game has slowed to a crawl I imagine.