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Posted by: GodEmperor
« on: October 17, 2024, 05:33:49 PM »

Quote from: Steve Walmsley on October 07, 2024, 10:50:13 AM
I'm debating what to do about POWs.

Currently, you rescue life pods, get intel points and then have the survivors on the rescuing ship using up life support and often quickly running down the deployment clock. The solution is to offload them, and it can be the nearest rock if you don't mind the RP aspect. The last is therefore tedious micromanagement. So I am considering two broad options.

Option 1) You rescue the POWs, get the intel and they vanish - keeping the benefit and removing the tedium that doesn't require any major decisions.

Option 2) POWs become more important from a logistics and intel point of view. In this scenario, you have to build POW Camps, which double as interrogation facilities. There are no longer interrogation experts on every shuttle. The rescuing ship will transport the POWs, including captured officers, to one of the POW camps, or to a colony for subsequent transport (I'll need a transport POW order), where they will be questioned and intel gathered. A colony with one or more camps will have effectively unlimited capacity for prisoners, but a limited capacity to process those POWs for intel-gathering purposes. The prisoners effectively become a potential intel resource until processed. The game would start with the home world having a POW camp.

Comments and suggestions welcome.
I would always prefer option 2 - im always for more features and things to consider.
Maybe some mechanic of getting relationship bonus if you return POW's to their empire? Or bonuses/penalties to unrest if you kill/dont kill prisoners depending on your species xenophobia and militarism?
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: October 13, 2024, 04:55:44 PM »

Quote from: Bluebreaker on October 13, 2024, 02:11:59 PM
What happens when communications are impossible?
Even after you have capture a few hundred millions of aliens in colonies/planets?

You can't interrogate them unless you understand their language.
Posted by: Bluebreaker
« on: October 13, 2024, 02:11:59 PM »

What happens when communications are impossible?
Even after you have capture a few hundred millions of aliens in colonies/planets?
Posted by: Bughunter
« on: October 11, 2024, 03:50:10 PM »

Something that would be very niche but could lead to some interesting stories is if you could send in a small ground force commando team to liberate prisoners on a colony. I imagine the commandos would have to fight a few rounds of combat against a defending unit. The location of prisoners could be something you can learn via intel.
Posted by: ty55101
« on: October 10, 2024, 02:25:41 AM »

I mulled this over for a couple of days and I really like the current aspect that right now it is a choice to drop off prisoners at closer colonies easily and have a higher risk of those going back to the race you captured the prisoners from if that colony is taken over. I think it would be awesome to play into that aspect more instead of or in addition to the interrogation aspect.

Can we make prisoners visible with sensors so mounting raids on colonies is more of a consideration? (I am presuming they are not visible currently as I cannot remember seeing any, but also cannot remember rescuing any from a colony)

I'm not sure if a rework on naval academies and crew is needed or not to help POWs become more important as there have been games where I run low and others where I run at highest base crew training and never run out. I do know that with it being easier to train up crew than previously and the cap being lowered it is definitely less of a bad thing when you have to lower crew grade or use conscripts for your ships.

Edit: Didn't realize a rules update had already been posted, but most of this still stands so I'll leave it here for consideration.
Posted by: nuclearslurpee
« on: October 09, 2024, 11:31:40 AM »

Quote from: Barkhorn on October 08, 2024, 12:03:23 PM
Quote from: nuclearslurpee on October 08, 2024, 11:54:01 AM
Quote from: Steve Walmsley on October 08, 2024, 08:06:04 AM
Quote from: ISN on October 08, 2024, 08:01:47 AM
If you just kept the current intel and diplomacy systems and added POW management on top, I think it would be more trouble than it's worth: the intel often just doesn't seem very valuable. But if you took this as an opportunity to expand the diplomacy system as others have suggested I think it could be great.

I have had a lot of useful intel from prisoners, which is why i thought it maybe should be harder to get.

BTW, regardless of what I do with POWs, I will follow option 1) for rescued crew and officers of the same race. They will become available immediately.

I get a good amount of useful intel, but getting active sensor designs is a huge disappointment so I can understand why some people would have an impression that intel is not useful. Honestly, sensor lowrolls could probably be removed and no one would shed a tear...
Maybe I'm mistaken, but wouldn't stealing an active sensor design be a huge intel win?  You get to know the exact capabilities of your enemy's sensors, and can thus have an easier time avoiding detection and/or target lock.

The problem is that it is super easy to figure out NPR sensor characteristics from their emissions if you know the basic mechanics. Player race sensors perhaps less so, but still a pretty sad result when the alternatives are things like class blueprints.
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: October 09, 2024, 06:04:19 AM »

Quote from: MinuteMan on October 09, 2024, 06:02:44 AM
Great changes imo.

One question popped up.
What happens if I board and capture an enemy ship that has prisoners of another known or unknown race?

They become your prisoners.
Posted by: MinuteMan
« on: October 09, 2024, 06:02:44 AM »

Great changes imo.

One question popped up.
What happens if I board and capture an enemy ship that has prisoners of another known or unknown race?
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: October 09, 2024, 05:29:21 AM »

Quote from: Xkill on October 08, 2024, 10:19:16 PM
Nice! Changes look pretty good. Deeper but not needlessly complicated. Colony of 1m pop + NavalHQ = Interrogation.

Can NPRs use these new mechanics? Perhaps an abstracted version?

NPRs are not affected by deployment times, so they will rescue the crews and commanders, then drop them off when they refuel at a pop of 1m or more (which needs refuelling capability so usually a substantial colony). However, those 1m+ NPR pops will assume 1 NHQ for this purpose if none exists. It's a minor abstraction that avoids extra AI checks every increment to decide if diverting to drop off POWs at a suitable pop is high enough priority.
Posted by: Xkill
« on: October 08, 2024, 10:19:16 PM »

Nice! Changes look pretty good. Deeper but not needlessly complicated. Colony of 1m pop + NavalHQ = Interrogation.

Can NPRs use these new mechanics? Perhaps an abstracted version?
Posted by: alex_brunius
« on: October 08, 2024, 03:19:09 PM »

Quote from: Steve Walmsley on October 08, 2024, 02:24:52 PM
Boarding tends to kill the crew - although its possible that could change. However, for ships that surrender, their crew will now become prisoners on their old ship. I've just posted the updated rules.

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=13463.msg171766#msg171766
Cool  8)

Maybe the total Xenophobia (for both different races) could be used to determine an overall ratio of surrendering crew (and possible ground forces down the line) with some randomness built in?

Logic being that both the actions of the race doing the capturing and the race being captureds expectations on how they will be treated as prisoner are important to determine if it makes sense for them to surrender.
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: October 08, 2024, 02:24:52 PM »

Quote from: alex_brunius on October 08, 2024, 01:21:20 PM
How are PoWs handled when it comes to boarding? Surrendering crew and officers should be a great opportunity for interrogations here with big bonus to learning even more about the captured ship class (like where is it deployed, built, how many exist and so on).

I always assumed that an abstraction of interrogating and pressing the captured crews into limited service (under guard) was one reason why you could get captured ships up and running somewhat quickly (which seems to be changing now in 2.6.0)
https://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=13463.msg171632#msg171632

Boarding tends to kill the crew - although its possible that could change. However, for ships that surrender, their crew will now become prisoners on their old ship. I've just posted the updated rules.

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=13463.msg171766#msg171766
Posted by: alex_brunius
« on: October 08, 2024, 01:21:20 PM »

How are PoWs handled when it comes to boarding? Surrendering crew and officers should be a great opportunity for interrogations here with big bonus to learning even more about the captured ship class (like where is it deployed, built, how many exist and so on).

I always assumed that an abstraction of interrogating and pressing the captured crews into limited service (under guard) was one reason why you could get captured ships up and running somewhat quickly (which seems to be changing now in 2.6.0)
https://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=13463.msg171632#msg171632
Posted by: Barkhorn
« on: October 08, 2024, 12:03:23 PM »

Quote from: nuclearslurpee on October 08, 2024, 11:54:01 AM
Quote from: Steve Walmsley on October 08, 2024, 08:06:04 AM
Quote from: ISN on October 08, 2024, 08:01:47 AM
If you just kept the current intel and diplomacy systems and added POW management on top, I think it would be more trouble than it's worth: the intel often just doesn't seem very valuable. But if you took this as an opportunity to expand the diplomacy system as others have suggested I think it could be great.

I have had a lot of useful intel from prisoners, which is why i thought it maybe should be harder to get.

BTW, regardless of what I do with POWs, I will follow option 1) for rescued crew and officers of the same race. They will become available immediately.

I get a good amount of useful intel, but getting active sensor designs is a huge disappointment so I can understand why some people would have an impression that intel is not useful. Honestly, sensor lowrolls could probably be removed and no one would shed a tear...
Maybe I'm mistaken, but wouldn't stealing an active sensor design be a huge intel win?  You get to know the exact capabilities of your enemy's sensors, and can thus have an easier time avoiding detection and/or target lock.
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: October 08, 2024, 11:59:17 AM »

Quote from: nuclearslurpee on October 08, 2024, 11:54:01 AM
Quote from: Steve Walmsley on October 08, 2024, 08:06:04 AM
Quote from: ISN on October 08, 2024, 08:01:47 AM
If you just kept the current intel and diplomacy systems and added POW management on top, I think it would be more trouble than it's worth: the intel often just doesn't seem very valuable. But if you took this as an opportunity to expand the diplomacy system as others have suggested I think it could be great.

I have had a lot of useful intel from prisoners, which is why i thought it maybe should be harder to get.

BTW, regardless of what I do with POWs, I will follow option 1) for rescued crew and officers of the same race. They will become available immediately.

I get a good amount of useful intel, but getting active sensor designs is a huge disappointment so I can understand why some people would have an impression that intel is not useful. Honestly, sensor lowrolls could probably be removed and no one would shed a tear...

I'll give some thought to what could replace them. I prefer not to boost the chance of some of the other ones by just eliminatiing it, so I will look at options and maybe a rebalance.