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Topic Summary

Posted by: Kaiser
« on: Today at 08:54:55 AM »

My original idea was to let the player choose the image he wants, let's say I create a battleship class X and I choose the reference image I want, I create a destroyer and I choose another one, etc. etc.
Then if in the future you want add tons of predefinite images you can do of course, but the idea was to just create the space for it.
Plus, I'm pretty sure the community will create a lot once we have the possibility to use them.
If you need to sacrifice something more useful, then leave it as it is.
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: Today at 08:19:35 AM »

Steve, do you remember my suggestion to add ships, fighters, ground units etc. portraits in various game's windows (class design, naval org. etc.)? Is it in the list? Will you add something in 2.6.0?

I'm in two minds on this one. I can see the benefits of adding the graphics for those who want them. However, unless I do a huge amount of work creating a lot of graphics, the portraits would be blank for most people, or they would all be the race ship picture for example. Also, adding portraits means creating window space for them, which in turn means sacrificing something else.

Or I make them optional, so the window rearranges if you choose to use them, which is a lot of work.

Overall, its a lot of work to do it right. So it might happen, but only if I spend the time to create a lot more ship portraits, probably using AI, and I don't have that amount of time right now while travelling and working full time.
Posted by: Kaiser
« on: Today at 07:44:48 AM »

Steve, do you remember my suggestion to add ships, fighters, ground units etc. portraits in various game's windows (class design, naval org. etc.)? Is it in the list? Will you add something in 2.6.0?
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: Today at 07:38:11 AM »

Moved over as I realise I posted it in the wrong thread -

Super excited by all the updates coming in 2.6 Steve, but is there any prospect of the old Advanced techs coming back at all, even as an option that could be toggled on or off in the settings when creating a game? I recently reread the old VB6 Trans-Newtonian campaign, and actually unearthed advanced lasers on a 2.0.1 game I'm still running atm, and it feels like something that would make a nice reward for players working through Precursors or the new Advanced Precursors, or even the Invaders.

Yes, no objection to adding them (and other techs). It's just a case of when it get high on the priority list.
Posted by: Viridia
« on: Today at 06:50:17 AM »

Moved over as I realise I posted it in the wrong thread -

Super excited by all the updates coming in 2.6 Steve, but is there any prospect of the old Advanced techs coming back at all, even as an option that could be toggled on or off in the settings when creating a game? I recently reread the old VB6 Trans-Newtonian campaign, and actually unearthed advanced lasers on a 2.0.1 game I'm still running atm, and it feels like something that would make a nice reward for players working through Precursors or the new Advanced Precursors, or even the Invaders.
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: Today at 03:53:21 AM »

Standing/conditional order templates.

See the post above yours :)
Posted by: Indefatigable
« on: Today at 03:50:14 AM »

Standing/conditional order templates.
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: May 20, 2025, 02:58:19 AM »

The suggestions to change orbital mining I think come from a deeper dissatisfaction with the Aurora orders system.  The orders system is really quite similar to a visual scripting language, except that you are limited to one player-defined loop, two premade loops (in the form of standing orders) and two conditional orders.  I think a lot of tedium could be removed from issuing orders if the system was a proper scripting environment.  Perhaps keep the GUI to construct simple scripts, but also offer the possibility of writing complex behavioral scripts by hand, so that players might use unlimited conditionals, loops, and knowledge about the game state to write one script defining the behavior of, say, an orbital miner, and never have to intervene in that fleet's affairs after that.

It would require a vast amount of code to implement an order scripting language, because of all the things that would need to be checked on setup and when anything in the game changes. Even the simple request that comes up occasionally to be able to insert a new order into the middle of the existing order list would require a large amount of code to check. The current orders method is intended to avoid logical errors within the game, which would happen a lot with scripting, which in turn could lead to code errors as unanticipated situations arise.

What would be possible without too much overhead would be to implement unlimited standing orders and conditional orders - as this would just use existing code to check more orders, with still only one being implemented. In that case, i could also add an option to save standing/conditional templates. There might be some performance impact if players were to add a lot of potential orders to every fleet.
Posted by: The_Seeker
« on: May 19, 2025, 02:20:48 PM »

The suggestions to change orbital mining I think come from a deeper dissatisfaction with the Aurora orders system.  The orders system is really quite similar to a visual scripting language, except that you are limited to one player-defined loop, two premade loops (in the form of standing orders) and two conditional orders.  I think a lot of tedium could be removed from issuing orders if the system was a proper scripting environment.  Perhaps keep the GUI to construct simple scripts, but also offer the possibility of writing complex behavioral scripts by hand, so that players might use unlimited conditionals, loops, and knowledge about the game state to write one script defining the behavior of, say, an orbital miner, and never have to intervene in that fleet's affairs after that.
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: May 11, 2025, 04:47:55 AM »


I don't think a standing order for this would be as useful as it sounds. The issue is that automating orbital mining means the miners have to use some logic to select targets. Orbital miners are no use if they ignore useful resources to go pull up 25,000 tons of tritanium, for instance. I think most players would rather assign orbital miners to specific bodies than suffer from random selection, and any logic that is implemented will be sure to satisfy no one (except maybe Steve, but that is a big maybe).

There is also the question of whether this is the type of "micromanagement" that needs to be removed, which I don't think it is. Making decisions about where to send orbital miners is part of the core strategic gameplay of Aurora, so a standing order like this has the downside of removing interesting gameplay for the sake of expedience, which has never been Aurora's design philosophy.

So overall I think having the normal orders which can be repeated or cycled is sufficient as it is, and no change of this type is needed. I can see why some people might want that change, but I don't think that rationale is compelling for Aurora.

the standing order for moving to an asteroid with minerals is already in game and last i checked it moves to an asteroid with the highest total yield(all the accessibility values added together), so the only additions would be putting the mined minerals into the cargo hold if present and a conditional order to check for a full cargo hold and to empty the cargo hold at a suitable place

First, there is nothing wrong with suggesting things. Sometimes it isn't practical - for mechanics or coding reasons - but sometimes it finds its way into the game and occasionally I implement it immediately.

On this occasion, there are a couple of issues. The standing order to move to an orbital mining location isn't used in-game. It was originally intended for civilian orbital miners, where the actual mineral composition didn't really matter, apart from having Duranium and being high accessibility, because the end-goal is the same as civilian mining colonies - revenue for the player, with an option to buy the minerals if they match his needs. Civilian orbital miners were not implemented, so the code isn't used. The NPR AI uses a different method for its orbital miners, where it assesses potential targets based on its current mineral needs. Actually it assesses all mining locations, using an AI mining score, but restricts orbital miners to a subset of the list.

This brings us to the main problem with an automated orbital mining order; it's not straightforward to know which asteroid you need to mine. That decision should take into account current mineral stockpiles, overall rates of mineral production for each type and estimated usage by mineral. In a large Empire, the decision also needs to take into account the distances between sources and production, also considering the ease of moving those minerals to where they are needed. Then there is the decision regarding how far to move to the next asteroid. Should I settle for a less useful asteroid that is close by, or set off across a huge system for a particularly good asteroid that will take months to reach. How about accessibility vs amount - is it worth travelling a long way for high accessibility when the amounts are small - and that might be worth it if some key mineral has a large deposit, even though others would be swiftly exhausted.

These are relatively straightforward decisions for a human, because you can weight different factors vs your needs fairly quickly and easily, without even realising the complexity of your decision-making process. That is much more difficult for a program that has to specify and weight all those competing needs and factors in a sensible way that will apply to any given situation. That is why the AI has the mining score code to make it a reasonable decision, even though most of the time it won't be optimal. Humans like to be optimal, so I could quite easily spend a significant amount of time and effort on a standing order for moving orbital miners, and most people wouldn't use it because the results wouldn't match what they need.

With regard to the cargo hold vs colony for the mined minerals; as others have pointed out moving the miners to unload the minerals isn't very efficient. Even so, its a valid choice. However, whether you use cargo ships or orbital miners with cargo holds, you can still choose to load minerals from the surface. You will need to manually assign the next target anyway, so adding a load order isn't changing the management overhead very much - and you can choose to only load the important minerals. I might add the autoload into orbital miner cargo holds at some point, but its unlikely because its a niche requirement and my current spare time is very limited. Maybe later in the year.
Posted by: David_H_Roarings
« on: May 10, 2025, 08:53:18 PM »


I don't think a standing order for this would be as useful as it sounds. The issue is that automating orbital mining means the miners have to use some logic to select targets. Orbital miners are no use if they ignore useful resources to go pull up 25,000 tons of tritanium, for instance. I think most players would rather assign orbital miners to specific bodies than suffer from random selection, and any logic that is implemented will be sure to satisfy no one (except maybe Steve, but that is a big maybe).

There is also the question of whether this is the type of "micromanagement" that needs to be removed, which I don't think it is. Making decisions about where to send orbital miners is part of the core strategic gameplay of Aurora, so a standing order like this has the downside of removing interesting gameplay for the sake of expedience, which has never been Aurora's design philosophy.

So overall I think having the normal orders which can be repeated or cycled is sufficient as it is, and no change of this type is needed. I can see why some people might want that change, but I don't think that rationale is compelling for Aurora.

the standing order for moving to an asteroid with minerals is already in game and last i checked it moves to an asteroid with the highest total yield(all the accessibility values added together), so the only additions would be putting the mined minerals into the cargo hold if present and a conditional order to check for a full cargo hold and to empty the cargo hold at a suitable place
Posted by: nuclearslurpee
« on: May 10, 2025, 07:02:39 PM »

with the standing order 'Move to Asteroid Mineral Source' what I proposed would allow you to set up an orbital miner that automatically does this without having to manually set up the repetitive orders or mark the body as a colony, and doesn't require you to periodically check to make sure they are actually mining something.

I don't think a standing order for this would be as useful as it sounds. The issue is that automating orbital mining means the miners have to use some logic to select targets. Orbital miners are no use if they ignore useful resources to go pull up 25,000 tons of tritanium, for instance. I think most players would rather assign orbital miners to specific bodies than suffer from random selection, and any logic that is implemented will be sure to satisfy no one (except maybe Steve, but that is a big maybe).

There is also the question of whether this is the type of "micromanagement" that needs to be removed, which I don't think it is. Making decisions about where to send orbital miners is part of the core strategic gameplay of Aurora, so a standing order like this has the downside of removing interesting gameplay for the sake of expedience, which has never been Aurora's design philosophy.

So overall I think having the normal orders which can be repeated or cycled is sufficient as it is, and no change of this type is needed. I can see why some people might want that change, but I don't think that rationale is compelling for Aurora.
Posted by: paolot
« on: May 10, 2025, 05:08:25 PM »

While what I propose may technically be less efficient it would cut out a lot of the micromanagement involved in mining asteroids/small bodies.
...

A mass driver (MD) on the body requires no management at all.
You mark the body as a colony 1 time for all. Then send the simplest OMs using a tug.
You bring the MD on the body, and that's all. You only need to recover them (OMs and MDs), and use somewhere else, when minerals are ended.
I can't see any micromanagement.

I'm not saying I don't want your proposal be implemented.
But the work to code it in the game seems to me it could be too long, for the new approaches it could give to the game.
Posted by: David_H_Roarings
« on: May 10, 2025, 02:44:58 PM »

I've never tried this with an OM, but doesn't the Load All Minerals Until Full order basically do this? An OM mines just by being in orbit of a body, so I would think having that order active wouldn't interfere with the mining part of its job.

Combine that with an order to unload at the hub world and then fly back to whichever comet or asteroid it's mining, and either cycle orders or repeat however many times it would take to mine out that body (or mine to low enough levels that accessibility is no longer worth it).

with the standing order 'Move to Asteroid Mineral Source' what I proposed would allow you to set up an orbital miner that automatically does this without having to manually set up the repetitive orders or mark the body as a colony, and doesn't require you to periodically check to make sure they are actually mining something.

Edit: it would also work well with the 'Salvage Nearest Wreak' standing order
Posted by: nuclearslurpee
« on: May 10, 2025, 02:14:36 PM »

I've never tried this with an OM, but doesn't the Load All Minerals Until Full order basically do this? An OM mines just by being in orbit of a body, so I would think having that order active wouldn't interfere with the mining part of its job.

Combine that with an order to unload at the hub world and then fly back to whichever comet or asteroid it's mining, and either cycle orders or repeat however many times it would take to mine out that body (or mine to low enough levels that accessibility is no longer worth it).