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Posted by: Viridia
« on: Yesterday at 11:18:48 PM »

Quote from: paolot on July 19, 2025, 08:13:02 AM
Maybe we could have multiple tractor beams per single tug (now, we can add them, but only one works), with a limit in the ship mass: i.e., one beams for a tug up to let's say 6,000 ton, two up to 9,000 ton, etc., and a maximum of 6 or 8 beams per ship.
Or, beams of different mass and different ability to tug multiples ships. And a corresponding research line to increase this mass and ability.
Now, one beam is 500 ton and can tractor one ship; then, we could build 800 ton beam that can tractor two ships, for double research points; then more, 1,000 ton for three ships, for 1.5 RPs of the previous level, etc.
I don't know anyway which proposal is simpler in coding terms between the various ones discussed here.

This would be invaluable for my current Honorverse style playthrough and the next one I have planned
Posted by: Falryx
« on: July 19, 2025, 07:20:21 PM »

I was putting together a multifaction Sol start today and realized that the 'customize NPR' code will only work for non-Sol NPRs.  Even if I created a new race and the the Home System to Sol, the database generated two different SystemIDs with SystemNumber 0.

SystemIDSystemNumberAgeAbundanceModifierStarsGameIDJumpSurveyPointsSystemTypeIDDustDensitySolSystemetc.
1465605.011123400001etc.
1467702.001123402000etc.

The only way to create a multifaction start on Earth is to start with >1 Player Races and set them to be the same species in the Player Race creation window and tick the NPR box.  On the plus side, this works.  On the minus side, you don't have the ability to adjust things like potential weapons preferences, shields, missiles, size modifiers for ships, etc.

It would be cool if either:

(a) Player Race creation opened up some of the additional configuration parameters (mostly the size modifiers and the weapons stuff) if you ticked the NPR box.

OR

(b) customizing NPRs had a way to designate "NPR is the same species and perhaps NPR shares the homeworld as two options.  In the former case you could have a post-collapse galactic empire with a number of NPRs that are also same-species as the player race.  The latter would mean you share a homeworld - just like the logic works above.

Anyway, just a thought to open up some additional playstyle options. 
Posted by: MinuteMan
« on: July 19, 2025, 06:15:41 PM »

In the ground forces window.
The STO targeting tab.

Being able to filter on location would be handy.

And maybe make applying the settings explicit with a button to click.
Instead on when you select the formation. Now it often is a back and forth game of setting target type, but then you didn't want all weapons, so you redo it. Etc.


On the Formation Templates tab.
When viewing an existing template, can you show in the summary if the Point Defense checkbox was checked or not. I know you can see it based on Tracking speed. But I like it to be explicit.

On Unit class design
When creating an STO element, settings a default "Targeting configuration" would be handy.
Posted by: icekiss
« on: July 19, 2025, 03:42:47 PM »

Quote from: nuclearslurpee on July 19, 2025, 02:29:03 AM
Quote from: icekiss on July 19, 2025, 01:48:31 AM
Quote from: nuclearslurpee on July 18, 2025, 07:29:20 PM
I actually consider the current functionality preferable. For example, one may want to send a fleet of 5 tugs to collect 3 ships from fleet A and 2 ships from fleet B, which would not work with the proposed change. I think a new order to the effect of "Tractor Maximum Ships" would be a good addition, just not as a replacement of the existing functionality.

Yeah, I thought that usecase might occur... It is possible with my proposal as well:
Currently: fleet A, "Tractor any Ship in Fleet", "Add Move", "Tractor any Ship in Fleet", "Add Move", "Tractor any Ship in Fleet", "Add Move", fleet B,
"Tractor any Ship in Fleet", "Add Move", "Tractor any Ship in Fleet", "Add Move"
-> 12 clicks
My proposal: fleet A, "Tractor any Ships in Fleet", "Maximum Ships", 3, "Add Move", fleet B, "Tractor any Ships in Fleet", "Maximum Ships", 2, "Add Move"
-> 8 clicks and 2 keystrokes

So even in your example, it wouldn't be more work than it is now (it would be more work if you need exactly 1 ship even though you could tractor multiple). The big advantage though: If you need 8 ships from fleet A and 4 ships from fleet B instead of 3 and 2, the number of clicks and keystrokes stays the same, while currently it would rise to 26 clicks.

All of that said, I am not opposed to a new button either. I just thought it might be better to try to limit how many buttons get added for yet more options.  ::)

The current way can actually be done in only <N> number of (double) clicks (per target fleet) where <N> is the number of ships to tractor. You can simply double-click the order to add it to the list, I will grant that a double click is worse for RSI than a single click but the lack of extra mouse movements means it is faster for those of us with intact wrists.  :)

I also personally try to avoid using the "Maximum Items" box, as I tend to quickly forget that it is set and give different orders to another fleet which accidentally use the same number. Usually I notice in time...

I think a new order is the best option here. The tractor orders are context-dependent, they only appear for a fleet with tractor beams, so I think any worry about clogging up the order list are not significant here compared to most other cases.

Alright, you have convinced me. Just adding another option is indeed the better way to go.  :)

Quote from: paolot on July 19, 2025, 08:13:02 AM
Maybe we could have multiple tractor beams per single tug (now, we can add them, but only one works), with a limit in the ship mass: i.e., one beams for a tug up to let's say 6,000 ton, two up to 9,000 ton, etc., and a maximum of 6 or 8 beams per ship.
Or, beams of different mass and different ability to tug multiples ships. And a corresponding research line to increase this mass and ability.
Now, one beam is 500 ton and can tractor one ship; then, we could build 800 ton beam that can tractor two ships, for double research points; then more, 1,000 ton for three ships, for 1.5 RPs of the previous level, etc.
I don't know anyway which proposal is simpler in coding terms between the various ones discussed here.


Each ship only being able to tractor a single ship seems completely logical to me: No matter how big the tractoring ship, the towed ones would be way too close together. For such big size differences that tractoring multiple ships could possibly become an option, hangars are the way to go.  ;D
Tractoring instead does not care about how big the towed ship is (slows things down, but towing is always possible) - leave that the way it is.  ;)
Posted by: paolot
« on: July 19, 2025, 08:13:02 AM »

Maybe we could have multiple tractor beams per single tug (now, we can add them, but only one works), with a limit in the ship mass: i.e., one beams for a tug up to let's say 6,000 ton, two up to 9,000 ton, etc., and a maximum of 6 or 8 beams per ship.
Or, beams of different mass and different ability to tug multiples ships. And a corresponding research line to increase this mass and ability.
Now, one beam is 500 ton and can tractor one ship; then, we could build 800 ton beam that can tractor two ships, for double research points; then more, 1,000 ton for three ships, for 1.5 RPs of the previous level, etc.
I don't know anyway which proposal is simpler in coding terms between the various ones discussed here.
Posted by: nuclearslurpee
« on: July 19, 2025, 02:29:03 AM »

Quote from: icekiss on July 19, 2025, 01:48:31 AM
Quote from: nuclearslurpee on July 18, 2025, 07:29:20 PM
I actually consider the current functionality preferable. For example, one may want to send a fleet of 5 tugs to collect 3 ships from fleet A and 2 ships from fleet B, which would not work with the proposed change. I think a new order to the effect of "Tractor Maximum Ships" would be a good addition, just not as a replacement of the existing functionality.

Yeah, I thought that usecase might occur... It is possible with my proposal as well:
Currently: fleet A, "Tractor any Ship in Fleet", "Add Move", "Tractor any Ship in Fleet", "Add Move", "Tractor any Ship in Fleet", "Add Move", fleet B,
"Tractor any Ship in Fleet", "Add Move", "Tractor any Ship in Fleet", "Add Move"
-> 12 clicks
My proposal: fleet A, "Tractor any Ships in Fleet", "Maximum Ships", 3, "Add Move", fleet B, "Tractor any Ships in Fleet", "Maximum Ships", 2, "Add Move"
-> 8 clicks and 2 keystrokes

So even in your example, it wouldn't be more work than it is now (it would be more work if you need exactly 1 ship even though you could tractor multiple). The big advantage though: If you need 8 ships from fleet A and 4 ships from fleet B instead of 3 and 2, the number of clicks and keystrokes stays the same, while currently it would rise to 26 clicks.

All of that said, I am not opposed to a new button either. I just thought it might be better to try to limit how many buttons get added for yet more options.  ::)

The current way can actually be done in only <N> number of (double) clicks (per target fleet) where <N> is the number of ships to tractor. You can simply double-click the order to add it to the list, I will grant that a double click is worse for RSI than a single click but the lack of extra mouse movements means it is faster for those of us with intact wrists.  :)

I also personally try to avoid using the "Maximum Items" box, as I tend to quickly forget that it is set and give different orders to another fleet which accidentally use the same number. Usually I notice in time...

I think a new order is the best option here. The tractor orders are context-dependent, they only appear for a fleet with tractor beams, so I think any worry about clogging up the order list are not significant here compared to most other cases.
Posted by: icekiss
« on: July 19, 2025, 01:48:31 AM »

Quote from: nuclearslurpee on July 18, 2025, 07:29:20 PM
I actually consider the current functionality preferable. For example, one may want to send a fleet of 5 tugs to collect 3 ships from fleet A and 2 ships from fleet B, which would not work with the proposed change. I think a new order to the effect of "Tractor Maximum Ships" would be a good addition, just not as a replacement of the existing functionality.

Yeah, I thought that usecase might occur... It is possible with my proposal as well:
Currently: fleet A, "Tractor any Ship in Fleet", "Add Move", "Tractor any Ship in Fleet", "Add Move", "Tractor any Ship in Fleet", "Add Move", fleet B,
"Tractor any Ship in Fleet", "Add Move", "Tractor any Ship in Fleet", "Add Move"
-> 12 clicks
My proposal: fleet A, "Tractor any Ships in Fleet", "Maximum Ships", 3, "Add Move", fleet B, "Tractor any Ships in Fleet", "Maximum Ships", 2, "Add Move"
-> 8 clicks and 2 keystrokes

So even in your example, it wouldn't be more work than it is now (it would be more work if you need exactly 1 ship even though you could tractor multiple). The big advantage though: If you need 8 ships from fleet A and 4 ships from fleet B instead of 3 and 2, the number of clicks and keystrokes stays the same, while currently it would rise to 26 clicks.

All of that said, I am not opposed to a new button either. I just thought it might be better to try to limit how many buttons get added for yet more options.  ::)
Posted by: nuclearslurpee
« on: July 18, 2025, 07:29:20 PM »

I actually consider the current functionality preferable. For example, one may want to send a fleet of 5 tugs to collect 3 ships from fleet A and 2 ships from fleet B, which would not work with the proposed change. I think a new order to the effect of "Tractor Maximum Ships" would be a good addition, just not as a replacement of the existing functionality.
Posted by: icekiss
« on: July 18, 2025, 04:51:13 PM »

Quote from: lumporr on July 18, 2025, 12:53:29 PM
Quote from: icekiss on July 18, 2025, 12:47:43 PM
But once I have 8 ships in the fleet, I will have to to do it 8 times. If I miscount, ships will fly empty.

First, enter an order to Track Any Ship in Fleet.

Then, in the text field next to the "Repeat Orders" button under the list of orders, input the number of ships you want tractored (minus one, to exclude the first order). Click "Repeat Orders".

Though, as someone who correctly identifies the All Tugs Only Tugs Doctrine as superior, the micro around tug usage is a little finicky, and could do with some work - indeed, a "Tug Maximum Ships (Any)" button would cut down on clicks by a fair margin.

I know how the "Repeat Orders" button works. That is essential to get anything done.  ;D
However, that repeats _all_ orders. As far as I know there is no way to repeat just _one_ order. And I can clearly see cases where tractoring won't be the first command I give.  ::)

I agree with you - tugging ships around is more micromanagement than hauling installations anyway (which civilians can automate). This part of it just seems really unnecessary to me.
Though there doesn't need to be an additional button for it, there are enough options there already.  ;D The behavior of the existing button can simply change (and if deemed better, renamed). With an optional limit (same as for "Load Installation") no functionality is lost at all.
Posted by: lumporr
« on: July 18, 2025, 12:53:29 PM »

Quote from: icekiss on July 18, 2025, 12:47:43 PM
But once I have 8 ships in the fleet, I will have to to do it 8 times. If I miscount, ships will fly empty.

First, enter an order to Track Any Ship in Fleet.

Then, in the text field next to the "Repeat Orders" button under the list of orders, input the number of ships you want tractored (minus one, to exclude the first order). Click "Repeat Orders".

Though, as someone who correctly identifies the All Tugs Only Tugs Doctrine as superior, the micro around tug usage is a little finicky, and could do with some work - indeed, a "Tug Maximum Ships (Any)" button would cut down on clicks by a fair margin.
Posted by: icekiss
« on: July 18, 2025, 12:47:43 PM »

Since this apparently working as intended, I have come here from the Bugs thread:

When using the order "Tractor Any Ship in Fleet", only one ship gets tractored, even if multiple ships have the ability to do so.
Right now, with 2 ships in the tug fleet, I can easily work around that by giving the order twice (now that I noticed that it works that way).
But once I have 8 ships in the fleet, I will have to to do it 8 times. If I miscount, ships will fly empty. And I can't use a movement template for it unless the amount of ships in the fleet is the same.

I expected the singular to apply per ship, since indeed any ship can only tractor one other ship. Just like all other commands (from Movement and Refuel onwards) apply to each ship of the fleet.
If there is need to be able to limit how many ships get tractored, without just specifically selecting them, add a "Maximum Ships" field like the "Maximum Items" in "Load Installation".
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: July 17, 2025, 02:40:37 AM »

Quote from: skoormit on July 16, 2025, 03:48:26 AM
In the missile design window, when you load an existing design, it does not load the separation range.
It sure would be nice if it did.

Added for v2.6.
Posted by: lumporr
« on: July 16, 2025, 02:26:41 PM »

Either an "Organization As Text" or "Colony Ground Forces As Text" button would go a long way in making it easier to assemble descriptions of complex ground force hierarchies quickly.
Posted by: GenStone
« on: July 16, 2025, 12:38:28 PM »

Quote from: skoormit on July 16, 2025, 03:48:26 AM
In the missile design window, when you load an existing design, it does not load the separation range.
It sure would be nice if it did.
Every time I design mines or cluster missiles I'm briefly flashed with visions of terror as I fool myself into believing I accidentally left the separation range at the default value for the 20th time in a row, despite KNOWING it doesn't load that value when you look at the missile.
Posted by: Ush213
« on: July 16, 2025, 04:59:31 AM »

New Module type Drone Pilot.

Drone pilot would replace the need for an officer. With the main use case being for fighters up to FAC level.
Seen as a late game module when officers are scare and resources are plenty. Or for RP reasons.

Drone module would be expensive possibly adding double the cost to a fighter for example but would have the following bonuses/drawbacks.
Drones would remove the need for Crew upkeep so save components and with no crew would not be able to repair so MSP could also be removed from the craft.

The draw back being no chance of repair and making Drones a single use or have a timelimit depending on when they break. Further drone tech could improve realibily.

If you wanted to take it a step further and use drone as potential offcier replacements on larger ships or as potential Governors this could also lead to AI civil war events a random trigger event that turns all Drone controlled units into an hostile NPR.