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Posted by: ZimRathbone
« on: March 03, 2011, 06:54:27 AM »

I tend to use 3 types of 1000 ton ships, all with their own (single use) Jumpdrive
(1) Poineer Scout - big passives nothing else - first into a system (in most cases)
(2) Grav Survey, size 1 passives & Grav survey
(3) Planetary survey - size 1 passives & geo survey

very occasionaly a variant of (3) with Hyperdrive equipped engines (for those far multi star systems - more for the purposes of security than anything else).  I rarely put more than 1 survey unit on a ship, most of the time is spent in transit from 1 survey location to the next, and I try always to have 2+ years fuel & Maint. 

This time around each ship is in its own fleet (apart from 1 group of 5 gravs put together to fast survey a recently discovered NPR junction system that 9 JP  two of which connect to my systems, and which at least 2 NPRs have been using  - I can see that being annexed with high priority), but in previous games I have used dividing fleets (less micro-management, but more time wasted by individual vessels waiting for the rest of the fleet to finish off surveys & reassemble)

Lately I have been following up grav surveys with the Minelayer  - a  small corvette with a single size 24 launcher (25% size) which drops off sensor buoys near each JP to give me warning when someone starts transiting my systems
Posted by: Peter Rhodan
« on: March 02, 2011, 09:40:57 PM »

I seem to follow a completely different strategy to everyone else - mind you I always start my games with less than 1000 tech points.
I build masses of small 2000 ton survey ships with 1 grav and 1 geo sensor - and send them out - in my current game I am 14 years - have 24 of the things and have spread my empire about 4 jumps in every direction.
I have lost so many expensive survey ships/squadrons in earlier games I find cheap 2k ton ships are a better option - one runs into a Star Swarm or Precursor or whatever and gets zapped - no big deal.
I refit them progressively with better fuel/engine/jump etc tech as it becomes available. . .
I also look to find suitable colonies - 2-3 jumps out from my home system and ship 10 maintenance and some Refineries to them ASAP and start servicing the Survey ships from these forward colonies. . .
Posted by: Rastaman
« on: May 25, 2010, 05:11:43 PM »

Quote from: "welchbloke"
Except that grav sensors are a military system, so you can only have commercial geo survey ships.

Makes sense. JPs have strategic value beyond the economy of course.
Posted by: welchbloke
« on: May 25, 2010, 10:56:17 AM »

Quote from: "Rastaman"
Given the unpredictability of exploration, the first people in a new system should be recon, not survey. Such a recon group is fast and/or stealthy and has the best sensors available. They have the best chance to find hostiles without being burdened by an additional industrial mission. If somebody is at home, do first contact/send the navy. .
I agree this how I work with my survey groups.  All the Grav survey groups have a scout ship or two with them to sneak in and have a look.

Quote from: "Rastaman"

The survey ships can be specialized commercials and don't need sensors or defenses themselves. So the grav survey comes next. It leaves sensor buoys at the JPs for further security. When they're finished, the mineral surveyors start their work, while the others are elsewhere already.  

The use of commercial ships for survey alleviates much of the maintenance and fuel issues. The only military ships are the recon ships, but you'll need recon anyhow as part of your navy structure.
Except that grav sensors are a military system, so you can only have commercial geo survey ships.
Posted by: Rastaman
« on: May 25, 2010, 09:05:27 AM »

Given the unpredictability of exploration, the first people in a new system should be recon, not survey. Such a recon group is fast and/or stealthy and has the best sensors available. They have the best chance to find hostiles without being burdened by an additional industrial mission. If somebody is at home, do first contact/send the navy.

The survey ships can be specialized commercials and don't need sensors or defenses themselves. So the grav survey comes next. It leaves sensor buoys at the JPs for further security. When they're finished, the mineral surveyors start their work, while the others are elsewhere already.  

The use of commercial ships for survey alleviates much of the maintenance and fuel issues. The only military ships are the recon ships, but you'll need recon anyhow as part of your navy structure.
Posted by: Peewee
« on: March 31, 2010, 09:13:57 AM »

I colonize and strip-mine everything I can before moving on (what? I'm RPing humans, right?) so I have plenty of resources.
I only bother expanding one system away from colonies, (thoroughly surveying everything in the system, asteroids included) unless I can't find any good mineral concentrations nearby.
When it's time to check out the neighbors, I send a group of 10 expensive survey ships (all have fast hyper-capable engines, jump-capable engines, short range low res active search, modest thermal, modest EM, and the best possible grav/geo sensors) out with some default orders. If they get attacked, they rapidly (typically 20,000 km/s) retreat back to base. Then the big guns roll out. All of them (well, almost. I leave behind a PDC or two).
Posted by: waresky
« on: March 29, 2010, 05:38:19 AM »

Quote from: "The Shadow"
Well, having binged on Aurora this spring break and gotten a number of years forward... I'm now less than happy with the "first-in scout" idea.  It worked really well at first, but now it takes too long to juggle them around to where they need to be.

I'm now thinking of designing a new survey vessel that packs both geo and grav sensors, and still has the Drake Survey Drones (but drops the Magellan buoys, as they'll be superfluous).  Since I've recently researched new armor and engines, I hope to keep it at the same size.

I'm also considering just using my existing carrier design to cart specialized survey vessels about, as others have done.
Same as you ive change whole my Survey Doctrine.
Aurora bring us front at 100000 systems to survey,potentially,and this are a HUGE work.
Carriers,Tenders,Tankers,Maintenance vessels,Maintenance hangar...a Scout Fleet become a semi-independent Armada,and need Escort more than first years..because a ScFlt are worth in cost and minerals deployment.

:D
Imagine a 100.000 Stars Universe to Scouting..argh..Time and effort.
Posted by: The Shadow
« on: March 29, 2010, 01:09:14 AM »

Well, having binged on Aurora this spring break and gotten a number of years forward... I'm now less than happy with the "first-in scout" idea.  It worked really well at first, but now it takes too long to juggle them around to where they need to be.

I'm now thinking of designing a new survey vessel that packs both geo and grav sensors, and still has the Drake Survey Drones (but drops the Magellan buoys, as they'll be superfluous).  Since I've recently researched new armor and engines, I hope to keep it at the same size.

I'm also considering just using my existing carrier design to cart specialized survey vessels about, as others have done.
Posted by: The Shadow
« on: March 25, 2010, 08:23:04 PM »

I use small, 1000-ton jump-capable geo and gravsurvey ships almost exactly like akhierthedragonheart's for the bulk of my survey fleet.

But I also have these guys, my 'first-in' scouts - they are the only ones I use to probe new systems for the first time.  I got the basic idea from Steve's Trans-Newtonian campaign, and tweaked to suit.  They've worked really well so far, haven't lost a one:

Code: [Select]
Sagan class Deep Space Survey Ship    4000 tons     365 Crew     711.4 BP      TCS 80  TH 120  EM 0
3000 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 1-22     Shields 0-0     Sensors 12/12/2/0     Damage Control Rating 5     PPV 4
Annual Failure Rate: 23%    IFR: 0.3%    Maint Capacity 611 MSP    Max Repair 150 MSP    Est Time: 5.42 Years
Magazine 176    

J4000(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 4000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
Ion Stealth Engine E8 (4)    Power 60    Fuel Use 80%    Signature 30    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 400,000 Litres    Range 225.0 billion km   (868 days at full power)

Survey Drone Launcher (1)    Missile Size 16    Rate of Fire 48000
Missile Fire Control FC0-R1 (1)     Range 22k km    Resolution 1
Drake Survey Drone (5)  Speed: 15,000 km/s   End: 1093.7m    Range: 984.4m km   WH: 0    Size: 16    TH: 25 / 15 / 7
Magellan Delivery System (5)  Speed: 15,000 km/s   End: 156.2m    Range: 140.6m km   WH: 0    Size: 16    TH: 25 / 15 / 7

Active Search Sensor MR14-R100 (1)     GPS 2400     Range 14.4m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-12 (1)     Sensitivity 12     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  12m km
Improved Gravitational Sensors (1)   2 Survey Points Per Hour

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
EDIT:  Forgot to mention that the Drake Survey Drones have a bit each of thermal, EM, and active sensor.  I fire them at planets that might harbor NPR's.  Detects populations, fleets, and makes contact all at one go.

The Magellan Delivery System is a drone that drops a geosurvey buoy on a tempting colony spot.  That way I don't have to wait for my geosurvey fleet to move up.
Posted by: waresky
« on: March 19, 2010, 06:51:52 AM »

The BEAUTIFUL of Aurora are exact this: no one had never same design or Naval Concept replicate.
There we can testing near to infinite possibility.

Sure we have the "Hard choice" cant avoid: speed,maneuvre rating,sensors and so..but "Doctrine" are always too many who noone have a "Right solution" for all situations.

The trick r check others and compare with our Universe situations..so if need better "copy and paste" in our Universe the BETTER solution for those we need

apologize for my not understandable english.. :oops:
Posted by: ShadoCat
« on: March 18, 2010, 05:24:54 PM »

Quote from: "MoonDragon"
Quote from: "ShadoCat"
Moondragon

I don't see active sensors on either the carrier or fighters.  AFAIK, you can't target off of just Thermals + Missile Fire Control.

Also, that's an awfully long endurance for a fighter missile. I would be tempted to see how many of those 1MSP missiles you could get on a fighter.

The last line of the fighter description:

Active Search Sensor MR32-R50 (1)     GPS 1800     Range 32.4m km    Resolution 50

Darn, I missed seeing the scroll bar.  That makes a lot more sense.  :)[/quote]

Ah, sort of just a rude gesture to the aggressor.   :)

My boats carry non-MIRV missiles so I can get some penetration.
Posted by: MoonDragon
« on: March 18, 2010, 12:27:38 PM »

Quote from: "ShadoCat"
Moondragon

I don't see active sensors on either the carrier or fighters.  AFAIK, you can't target off of just Thermals + Missile Fire Control.

Also, that's an awfully long endurance for a fighter missile. I would be tempted to see how many of those 1MSP missiles you could get on a fighter.

The last line of the fighter description:

Active Search Sensor MR32-R50 (1)     GPS 1800     Range 32.4m km    Resolution 50

Those MIRV missiles are also not specifically designed as fighter missiles. They are my generic "fist of God" overkill missile designed with no knowledge of what I may run into. So, it's supposed to fit on anything I may have to build, but primarily in combination with tube launchers. The fighters are just meant to be a mobile active sensor distraction platform while my survey ship attempts to run for the JP. The missiles are really a retaliatory punitive measure, rather than a part of a well thought out military campaign against a known enemy. :)
Posted by: ShadoCat
« on: March 17, 2010, 06:09:06 PM »

Moondragon

I don't see active sensors on either the carrier or fighters.  AFAIK, you can't target off of just Thermals + Missile Fire Control.

Also, that's an awfully long endurance for a fighter missile. I would be tempted to see how many of those 1MSP missiles you could get on a fighter.
Posted by: waresky
« on: March 13, 2010, 08:29:16 AM »

Nice group and naval doctrine Moon...ive some of same out there around.Scout Carriers and different "embarked choice" are very good in a unhappy Universe:D
Posted by: MoonDragon
« on: March 10, 2010, 04:22:10 PM »

In my latest game, I played an "isolationist" culture for a while. I stayed in the solar system until I had colonies on Mars (fully terraformed) and Titan (slowly terraforming). Earth has long ago ran out of mines, but my other planets have critical resources in millions, so there was no reason to rush. Instead, I researched. A lot. As the age of enlightenment comes, so does the need to expand.

My current exploration doctrine calls for two types of exploratory vessels. I call their task groups Depth First Search (DFS) and Width First Search (WFS). DFS task groups jump through jump gates the moment they discover them. WFS task groups survey the whole system before moving to the next equally distant system, from the previous. My DFS TGs are intended to be the point of first contact, and hopefully survive such contact. While WFS TGs are my primary means of geological survey.

In order to accommodate both methodologies without too much overhead, I went with modular ship design (i.e. hangars). My main survey platform are jump capable grav survey vessels.
Code: [Select]
Eagle class Gravitational Survey Vessel    4000 tons     300 Crew     1074.2 BP      TCS 80  TH 40  EM 0
3125 km/s    JR 3-50     Armour 3-22     Shields 0-0     Sensors 180/180/2/0     Damage Control Rating 3     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 42%    IFR: 0.6%    Maint Capacity 504 MSP    Max Repair 180 MSP    Est Time: 3.14 Years
Hangar Deck Capacity 1000 tons    

J4000(3-50) Military Jump Drive     Max Ship Size 4000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3
MaConfi Drive Type M/E4 (2)    Power 125    Fuel Use 40%    Signature 20    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres    Range 168.8 billion km   (625 days at full power)

Thermal Sensor TH10-180 (1)     Sensitivity 180     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  180m km
EM Detection Sensor EM10-180 (1)     Sensitivity 180     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  180m km
Improved Gravitational Sensors (1)   2 Survey Points Per HourDepending on the type of deployment, they will either carry two missile armed fighters (for DFS role) or a geo survey parasite (for WFS role). The geo survey ship:
Code: [Select]
Mole class Geological Survey Vessel    1000 tons     90 Crew     487.4 BP      TCS 20  TH 20  EM 0
6250 km/s     Armour 3-8     Shields 0-0     Sensors 90/1/0/3     Damage Control Rating 1     PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 8%    IFR: 0.1%    Maint Capacity 305 MSP    Max Repair 200 MSP    Est Time: 5.68 Years

MaConfi Drive Type M/E4 (1)    Power 125    Fuel Use 40%    Signature 20    Armour 0    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres    Range 225.0 billion km   (416 days at full power)

Thermal Sensor TH5-90 (1)     Sensitivity 90     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  90m km
Advanced Geological Sensors (1)   3 Survey Points Per HourMy "smack the living heck out of them and run" fighters, that accompany the DFS role survey vessels:
Code: [Select]
Resolution class Fighter    467.5 tons     20 Crew     115.4 BP      TCS 9.35  TH 12  EM 0
8021 km/s     Armour 1-5     Shields 0-0     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 0     PPV 6
Annual Failure Rate: 6%    IFR: 0.1%    Maint Capacity 39 MSP    Max Repair 36 MSP    Est Time: 5.08 Years
Magazine 40    

FTR Magnetic Confinement Fusion Drive E300 (1)    Power 75    Fuel Use 3000%    Signature 12    Armour 0    Exp 25%
Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres    Range 2.6 billion km   (3 days at full power)

Size 10 Box Launcher (4)    Missile Size 10    Hangar Reload 75 minutes    MF Reload 12.5 hours
Missile Fire Control FC29-R50 (1)     Range 29.2m km    Resolution 50
Size 10 Anti-ship MIRV (4)  Speed: 18,700 km/s   End: 26.7m    Range: 30.5m km   WH: 0    Size: 10    TH: 62 / 37 / 18

Active Search Sensor MR32-R50 (1)     GPS 1800     Range 32.4m km    Resolution 50Where the missiles carried by it are:
Code: [Select]
Missile Size: 10 MSP  (0.5 HS)     Warhead: 0    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 10
Speed: 18700 km/s    Endurance: 32 minutes   Range: 35.9m km
Cost Per Missile: 21.0586
Second Stage: Hornet ASM S-S1-4 x8
Second Stage Separation Range: 750,000 km
Overall Endurance: 32 minutes   Overall Range: 36.5m km
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 187%   3k km/s 60%   5k km/s 37.4%   10k km/s 18.7%
Materials Required:    8x Tritanium   10.7926x Gallicite   Fuel x1250And:
Code: [Select]
Missile Size: 1 MSP  (0.05 HS)     Warhead: 4    Armour: 0     Manoeuvre Rating: 18
Speed: 62500 km/s    Endurance: 0 minutes   Range: 0.8m km
Cost Per Missile: 2.2417
Chance to Hit: 1k km/s 1125%   3k km/s 360%   5k km/s 225%   10k km/s 112.5%
Materials Required:    1x Tritanium   0.9897x Gallicite   Fuel x2.5The doctrine for DSM vessels calls for fighters to exit the ship upon detection of hostiles, while the MS hightails it towards the jump point. If possible, the fighters engage their missiles at the target and follow after the MS. I don't intend to stick around for the details. Overall, this doctrine was borne out of too many survey craft getting ganked by random hostiles that shoot first and ask questions later.