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Posted by: Ziusudra
« on: March 26, 2011, 12:35:52 PM »

Quote from: Heph on March 26, 2011, 02:12:46 AM
Its in the Wiki. If the Temperature is below the Boiling Point of a gas it does not affect the Greenhousefactor.
What wiki? Not AuroraWiki, a search for "boiling" found nothing.

If that were true Titan would have the same surface and base temperatures, as it should.
Posted by: Tarran
« on: March 26, 2011, 03:19:41 AM »

Quote from: Heph on March 26, 2011, 02:38:23 AM
Err thats because your Athmospheric preasure has increased.
Not really. The atmospheric pressure only added .01 GH factor. The greenhouse gas added the .1. Thus the 1.11 GH Factor.

Quote from: Heph on March 26, 2011, 02:38:23 AM
And i think i misworded my previous post it could have been GHP instead of GHF.
Doesn't matter. GHP increased by .1 anyway.

As far as I can tell, adding .1 ATMs Carbon Dioxide or SGG had the same effect on Pluto as on Mercury. 1.11 GH Factor, 0.1 GHP, an increase in ground temperature of 11%.
Posted by: Mel Vixen
« on: March 26, 2011, 02:38:23 AM »

Err thats because your Athmospheric preasure has increased. And i think i misworded my previous post it could have been GHP instead of GHF.

Posted by: Tarran
« on: March 26, 2011, 02:27:09 AM »

Quote from: Heph on March 26, 2011, 02:12:46 AM
Its in the Wiki. If the Temperature is below the Boiling Point of a gas it does not affect the Greenhousefactor.
Really? Because I just put .1 Atms of Carbon Dioxide on Pluto and I got 1.11 GH factor despite it being 40K degrees and it increased the temperature to 44.4K degrees. Same with SGG.
Posted by: Mel Vixen
« on: March 26, 2011, 02:12:46 AM »

Its in the Wiki. If the Temperature is below the Boiling Point of a gas it does not affect the Greenhousefactor.
Posted by: Charlie Beeler
« on: March 25, 2011, 07:34:07 AM »

Quote from: Tarran on March 24, 2011, 04:12:09 PM
But they have the same effect, no? Then in gameplay terms they are the same. Atmospheric pressure factor, Greenhouse factor, etc are 100% the same. No difference whatsoever as far as I can tell. Try it yourself, no difference. Carbon Dioxide has the same effect gameplay wise as Safe Greenhouse Gases.

Actually no they don't.  I can't find the topic where Steve talks about the calculations he's using, but the gas boiling point is a factor in the albedo calculations which in turn is a factor in calculating temperature.  CO2 has a higher impact on albedo than SGG.  From the stand point of only the atmospheric pressure impact on temperature you are correct.  CO2 and SGG are the only non-toxic greenhouse gasses,  greenhouse gasses have temp pressure modifier of 10X.
Posted by: voknaar
« on: March 24, 2011, 05:39:02 PM »

Quote from: Thiosk on March 24, 2011, 04:56:29 PM
Including death?  ::)

I was wondering if anyone would notice. Interestingly enough no i've not experienced death like symtoms presently. But from what i hear it'll happen eventually.  :'(
Posted by: Thiosk
« on: March 24, 2011, 04:56:29 PM »

Quote from: voknaar on March 24, 2011, 01:36:18 PM
I think I've experienced all of the above at some point. Perhaps i should open a window more often. :o

Including death?  ::)

Yes, Mars is now ideal for human habitation... with a 50% carbon dioxide atmosphere.

I will justify "abstract greenhouse gas" by pretending they are some sort of flourinated hydrocarbon, or a compound similar to CFCs which are potent greenhouse gasses.
Posted by: Tarran
« on: March 24, 2011, 04:12:09 PM »

Quote from: Charlie Beeler on March 24, 2011, 01:47:37 PM
Without knowing the calculations that Steve is using I would not make that assumption. 

Based on the table entries they are not the same though.  CO2 has a weight of 44 and boiling point of 195  while SGG has a weight of 40 and a boiling point of 100.  Clearly not the same.
But they have the same effect, no? Then in gameplay terms they are the same. Atmospheric pressure factor, Greenhouse factor, etc are 100% the same. No difference whatsoever as far as I can tell. Try it yourself, no difference. Carbon Dioxide has the same effect gameplay wise as Safe Greenhouse Gases.
Posted by: Charlie Beeler
« on: March 24, 2011, 01:47:37 PM »

Quote from: Tarran on March 23, 2011, 10:40:45 PM
Nope. Just tested: Both have the same effect.

Personally, I prefer carbon dioxide because it's more natural and isn't vague like "Safe greenhouse gases".

Without knowing the calculations that Steve is using I would not make that assumption. 

Based on the table entries they are not the same though.  CO2 has a weight of 44 and boiling point of 195  while SGG has a weight of 40 and a boiling point of 100.  Clearly not the same.
Posted by: voknaar
« on: March 24, 2011, 01:36:18 PM »

Quote from: Tarran on March 24, 2011, 12:52:16 AM
Ah bah humbug. Flushed skin, full pulse, tachypnea, dyspnoea, extrasystoles, muscle twitches, hand flaps, reduced neural activity, raised blood pressure, disorientation, panic, hyperventilation, convulsions, unconsciousness, and death aren't so bad. The colonists can take it. I'm -100% certain of that.

 :P
I think I've experienced all of the above at some point. Perhaps i should open a window more often. :o
Posted by: Tarran
« on: March 24, 2011, 12:52:16 AM »

Quote from: Ziusudra on March 23, 2011, 11:27:09 PM
While I agree with that, it's actually not safe at terraforming concentrations (not in the game though.)
Ah bah humbug. Flushed skin, full pulse, tachypnea, dyspnoea, extrasystoles, muscle twitches, hand flaps, reduced neural activity, raised blood pressure, disorientation, panic, hyperventilation, convulsions, unconsciousness, and death aren't so bad. The colonists can take it. I'm -100% certain of that.

 :P
Posted by: Ziusudra
« on: March 23, 2011, 11:27:09 PM »

Quote from: Tarran on March 23, 2011, 10:40:45 PM
Personally, I prefer carbon dioxide because it's more natural and isn't vague like "Safe greenhouse gases".
While I agree with that, it's actually not safe at terraforming concentrations (not in the game though.)
Posted by: Tarran
« on: March 23, 2011, 10:40:45 PM »

Quote from: Shadow on March 23, 2011, 09:43:15 PM
So the generic safe greenhouse gas is more effective than carbon dioxide? :-X
Nope. Just tested: Both have the same effect.

Personally, I prefer carbon dioxide because it's more natural and isn't vague like "Safe greenhouse gases".
Posted by: Shadow
« on: March 23, 2011, 09:43:15 PM »

So the generic safe greenhouse gas is more effective than carbon dioxide? :-X