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Posted by: CharonJr
« on: February 14, 2015, 02:47:08 AM »

Well, looks like I have to let nature runs it course then ;) Next time just keep reloading a save and setting up as race till they get the wanted stats will be the way to go. But even having gained this insight is worth something :)
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: February 13, 2015, 07:10:51 PM »

Quote from: CharonJr on February 13, 2015, 06:26:29 PM
Tried again after the AI had researched Salvalge Module 500, but it is still unable to use newly gifted or the older ships. I tried to use their techs when designing the gifts, but it looks like they are simply unable to use the gifts.

Maybe I will try to gift them a simple combat ship or a freighter tomorrow and see if gifting works with them.

Don't try giving NPRs ships that you have designed - it will probably confuse them as they expect ships to be designed in specific ways and they know all the class IDs of the ships they designed. Also, when NPR classes are created they are given special type IDs so the NPRs know they are a colony ship or fuel harvester, or escort, FAC, etc. Without that ID (which you can't create as it is done in code), the NPR doesn't know what the ship is and the NPR movement and combat system depends on knowing the type ID. You can give them additional ships of their existing types because they know what to do with them

It's highly likely you will cause bugs that you won't even know about for a while. Designer mode really is just a tool to set what is going on. You should try to avoid changing things :)
Posted by: CharonJr
« on: February 13, 2015, 06:26:29 PM »

Tried again after the AI had researched Salvalge Module 500, but it is still unable to use newly gifted or the older ships. I tried to use their techs when designing the gifts, but it looks like they are simply unable to use the gifts.

Maybe I will try to gift them a simple combat ship or a freighter tomorrow and see if gifting works with them.
Posted by: MarcAFK
« on: February 12, 2015, 09:02:26 PM »

I have to assume they need to research it first, since we have already discussed the AI's inability to use components they haven't researched....
Posted by: CharonJr
« on: February 12, 2015, 05:41:58 PM »

Well, at least currently the AI seems to have no idea what to do with the gifted Salvagers. There have assigned them commanders and I can select them, but they are sitting right were I put them before making them a gift.
Posted by: CharonJr
« on: February 12, 2015, 02:45:18 PM »

Hmm, would the NPR actually be able to use one of my Salvagers if I gifted it to them or would they have no clue how to use it without having researched salaving first? And I have no idea if I would actually be able to gift a ship to a hostile race even if they could use the Slavager. I think I will just give it a try ;)
Posted by: CharonJr
« on: February 12, 2015, 01:53:57 PM »

Good idea about salvaging, but for this to work the NPR would have to recognise the Salvage Module I had to put up for research since they have not researched it themself. I have no idea if they will recognise it when it is finished and actually design a Salvager.
Posted by: MarcAFK
« on: February 11, 2015, 10:58:16 PM »

NPR's salvage now right? Could you just leave a couple of wrecks consisting of nothing but a few thousand tons of a certain component in the hope they will salvage and research the tech?
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: February 11, 2015, 04:58:03 PM »

Quote from: CharonJr on February 11, 2015, 04:36:45 PM
Yup, got the point about not removing anything :)

But giving them a higher tech research level might/should work, right? This way they could research their own techs and use them.

Yes, that should work.
Posted by: CharonJr
« on: February 11, 2015, 04:36:45 PM »

Yup, got the point about not removing anything :)

But giving them a higher tech research level might/should work, right? This way they could research their own techs and use them.
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: February 11, 2015, 04:32:49 PM »

Apparently the forum doesn't like the word (when) unless I put it in brackets - grrr!

Designer mode has a lot of limitations. It is really used primarily to see what is happening rather than make major changes. New missiles will not be used because the NPRs don't know about them. When they design their own missiles, they keep track of the database ID of those missile types. Those IDs are them associated with the different classes that use them. When those classes run out they will attempt to reload with the appropriate missiles and may attempt to use other smaller missiles of nothing else is available. You would have to create the missiles, edit the database records for all missiles types then change all the class missile assignments.  Equally, when you give them engine tech they won't use it. As part of the NPR research process, when they develop certain key techs they will update their designs. In this case, new designs will be created (when) they develop new engine tech. Without that trigger to force a design update, they won't use the new engine tech you gave them.

You could add extra ships or extra missiles if they are existing types and the NPR will use them. Adding things they don't 'know about' won't help. Equally, removing or changing things the NPR is expecting to be available will confuse them and cause bugs. This is why I don't advertise designer mode or recommend using it. It's just too easy to get yourself into trouble
Posted by: CharonJr
« on: February 11, 2015, 04:30:28 PM »

Dang, was afraid of that. Oh well, looks like the bad guys will be fairly comical with huge sensors and missiles, but hardly able to move ;)
Posted by: Steve Walmsley
« on: February 11, 2015, 04:27:07 PM »

Quote from: CharonJr on February 11, 2015, 02:26:56 PM
And another question concerning NPRs, will they use tech I manually gave them?

The race I generated never got past Magneto Plasma Drives despite being given 1.2mil tech points, so I added 2 levels of engine techs to them. But I am not sure if they will try to design new engines now.

And on a related note, I gave them new missiles (including better engine tech) as well, will they actually use them? Essentially I could not bear to see a TL6-7 race in many other fields using 15-20kkm/sec missiles.

I keep trying to write a detailed response but the @$%^&! forum bug won't let me post :(

What you are doing won't work - one of the (many) limitation of designer mode.
Posted by: CharonJr
« on: February 11, 2015, 02:26:56 PM »

And another question concerning NPRs, will they use tech I manually gave them?

The race I generated never got past Magneto Plasma Drives despite being given 1.2mil tech points, so I added 2 levels of engine techs to them. But I am not sure if they will try to design new engines now.

And on a related note, I gave them new missiles (including better engine tech) as well, will they actually use them? Essentially I could not bear to see a TL6-7 race in many other fields using 15-20kkm/sec missiles.
Posted by: sloanjh
« on: February 10, 2015, 07:01:29 AM »

Quote from: Steve Walmsley on February 09, 2015, 03:29:04 PM
I've just done exactly this in my own game to add the Arachnid Omnivoracity (an old foe of the Rigellians from the Starfire campaign).

OOOOOH - The Bugs are back!!!!

John