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Posted by: Father Tim
« on: May 20, 2019, 03:33:52 PM »

As to improving the Fafnir-class in particular, I'd want it to be faster.  I'd drop the big active sensors and equip it with the best passives I could make (but no electrnoic hardening unless I've already encountered enemies that use Microwave weapons).  As a command ship, Fafnirs shouldn't ever be alone, in which case they can rely on other ships to 'paint' their targets for missile fire.  I prefer to cruise around with only passive sensors and a single resolution 1 anti-missile/anti-fighter sensor lit up (and VB6 Aurora has a bug/feature that a ship can only have ALL or NONE of its active sensors turned on).

The Thermal Reduction MAY be a mistake -- it depends entirely on the rest of your fleet.  Since weapons fire is guided by Active sensors, Thermal Reduction doesn't help you not get shot at, it only helps you not get detected in the first place. . .  and (again) since a Fafnir should never be alone, it is the largest thermal signature in the fleet that you need to worry about.  If that IS the Fafnir, then use Thermal Reduction until it isn't, but if you have some big-engined escort cuisers or super-fast destroyers that put out more heat than a Fafnir, the Thermal Reduction is wasted resources.

If the Fafnir is going to be a Fleet command ship, I wouldn't put any cryo-drop capacity or cargo transfer equipment on it.  Marine companies for boarding defense is fine, but my fleet command ships don't do ground attack.

Personally I think the shields are too fuel-inefficent for regular use, but it's good to have them to turn on in the face of the enemy.  I just wouldn't want to use them day in and day out in orbit of a hostile planet or moon.

The armour's good, the hangar deck is good, the extra berths go either way (i.e. they make a cool 'flavour' for your navy, but they are not, strictly speaking, efficient).  I would be tempted to make the "mistake" of only having one missile fire control.  With a two-day-plus reload time, I'd either fire a full salvo at one target, or I'd wait five seconds or two minutes or whatever between missiles, and retarget my fire control.  I know that makes the ship vulnerable to losing it all to one hit, but I bet the crew could repair one fire control faster than they can reload a twenty-six-hour launcher.  #:-]

Also, I can't remember if "Small Craft ECCM" is just the name for the smaller, more-expensive unit, or if it actually has a maximum tonnage it can effect or maybe it only applies its bonus to Fighter-type fire controls.  It's worth checking.  (Although, with so few weapons, personally I'd not bother with ECCM.  Missile size 60 is big enough to mount sensors and ECCM on the ship-killers, and planets don't dodge.  Shipboard ECCM seems a waste.)

To counter my previous point, I'd certainly put CIWS on my fleet flagship, unless I was absolutely confident I could keep it out of battle -- as in, I planned to leave it on the jump point so my flag staff would be in the same system, but not actually 'in' the battle.  With CIWS, you'd want ECCM.

- - -

So, to summarize, lose the troop-drop if it's not going to be commanding planetary invasions, and give it more engines.  Protect it with everyting you've got in a fleet.  Lose the large, noisy, Active sensor -- that sort of "Shoot ME!" sign belongs on a more expendable vessel.
Posted by: Father Tim
« on: May 20, 2019, 03:03:47 PM »

Hmm. . .  Personally, I'd want my flagship to be the fastest of my big ships.  I'd load it with point defense and a moderate-sized hangar for shuttles, line-of-communication ships, and other utility vessels rather than combat fighters or FACs.  Certainly it needs its own jump drive, and I wouldn't want to skimp on defenses so I'd probably be removing half-to-all of its heavy armament.

If we assume my standard battleship mounts eight heavy guns (12") in four twin turrets, a secondary battery of 12-16 light guns (6"), and a mini-hangar for two-to-four scout planes; I'd drop two of the big turrets, double the hangar, and convert the secondary battery to dedicated point defense -- or at least dual-purpose 4" or 5" guns.  Depending on my engine & jump tech, I might need to drop the other two heavy turrets as well and/or add an engine.

All of which is way too much for a refit, so it'd be a dedicated class designed from the keel up to be fleet flagship, and merely 'inspired by' by the battleship design.

- - -

Though I must admit, I mostly use regular cruisers or battleships 'with a flag bridge bolted on' as my squadron & flotilla flagships.
Posted by: xenoscepter
« on: May 20, 2019, 01:41:59 PM »

@ Father Tim

What would make a good fleet command ship; purpose built that is. I know I could just refit something or use a Flag Bridge pod with a Hangar Bay or something, but that's meta... and boring.

So what are you're thoughts on that, and how could the Fafnir-Class be improved?
Posted by: Father Tim
« on: May 20, 2019, 01:31:25 PM »

As a command ship for a planetary invasion, I think the Fafnir/Genocide isn't too bad.  It's certainly overbuilt in areas it probably doesn't need to be, but a rich empire is entitled to lavish extra time, money, and minerals on showpiece ships if it desires.

As a fleet command ship, it's terrible.  Twenty-five hundred kilometres per second is just too slow.  Even in a jump point assault -- or defense -- you want to maneuver somewhat; to chase or run away from dangerous enemy units, or to achieve or maintain optimum range.

Leave it parked over your homeworld until it's time to invade the other guy's homeworld, and call it the Great Harry
Posted by: xenoscepter
« on: May 20, 2019, 01:31:07 AM »

Genocide-Class Command Ship:

Code: [Select]
Genocide-Class Command Ship    45,000 tons     853 Crew     9661.5 BP      TCS 900  TH 135  EM 1080
2500 km/s    JR 7-1000     Armour 9-112     Shields 36-150     Sensors 1/1/0/0     Damage Control Rating 100     PPV 90
Maint Life 2.74 Years     MSP 9368    AFR 405%    IFR 5.6%    1YR 1797    5YR 26952    Max Repair 2242 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Flight Crew Berths 533   
Flag Bridge    Hangar Deck Capacity 3000 tons     Troop Capacity: 2 Companies    Cryo Drop Capacity: 3 Battalions    Magazine 870    Cryogenic Berths 2800    Cargo Handling Multiplier 20   

Fafnir Jump Drive [Military]     Max Ship Size 45000 tons    Distance 1000k km     Squadron Size 7
Fafnir Internal Fusion Drive [Commercial] (9)    Power 250    Fuel Use 3.31%    Signature 15    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 900,000 Litres    Range 108.8 billion km   (503 days at full power)
Fafnir Dynamic Shield System (9)   Total Fuel Cost  90 Litres per hour  (2,160 per day)

Genocide Missile Launcher (6)    Missile Size 100    Hangar Reload 750 minutes    MF Reload 125 hours
Genocide Missile FCS (3)     Range 345.6m km    Resolution 100

Genocide Active Search Sensor [R100] (1)     GPS 54000     Range 432.0m km    Resolution 100

 --- This is a Fafnir-Class Command Ship refitted with new Res 100 Genocide Missile FCS units, an 800 Ton Res 100 Active Search Sensor (all of them with 50% Electronic Hardening) and six Genocide 100 Ton Box Launchers. The three Cryo Drop Modules are retained, to maximize the Genocide For Fun And Profit aspect of the Fafnir-Class. Also because I think it's funny.

This is still within the 40,000 RP parameters btw, Box Launchers are only 10,000 RP, it takes 12 and a half hours to reload within a 45,000 Ton Hangar and roughly six days to reload at a Maintenance Facility.
Posted by: xenoscepter
« on: May 20, 2019, 01:06:20 AM »

Firstly, this ship was designed using technology that cost no more than 40,000 RP, although some of it costs less. Secondly, this ship has otherwise useless gear that is present for Role-Play Purposes. Thirdly, this ship features no listed Missile Complement or Hangar Complement; you the reader may decide what goes best in those areas, as the Fafnir-Class is designed to be stocked and re-stocked depending on the mission profile and to account for other factors. Finally, the Fafnir-Class is a Command Ship, offensive power is NOT it's first priority, nor is protection of the personnel a priority(although you could argue that as a flaw). This means the Fafnir-Class requires escort screens, potentially compounding the costs required to field it.

That is all.

Fafnir-Class Command Ship:

Code: [Select]
Fafnir-Class Command Ship    45,000 tons     931 Crew     9464.5 BP      TCS 900  TH 135  EM 1080
2500 km/s    JR 7-1000     Armour 9-112     Shields 36-150     Sensors 81/81/0/0     Damage Control Rating 100     PPV 45
Maint Life 2.76 Years     MSP 9258    AFR 405%    IFR 5.6%    1YR 1752    5YR 26279    Max Repair 2242 MSP
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Flight Crew Berths 455   
Flag Bridge    Hangar Deck Capacity 3000 tons     Troop Capacity: 2 Companies    Cryo Drop Capacity: 3 Battalions    Magazine 1260    Cryogenic Berths 2800    Cargo Handling Multiplier 20   

Fafnir Jump Drive [Military]     Max Ship Size 45000 tons    Distance 1000k km     Squadron Size 7
Fafnir Internal Fusion Drive [Commercial] (9)    Power 250    Fuel Use 3.31%    Signature 15    Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 900,000 Litres    Range 108.8 billion km   (503 days at full power)
Fafnir Dynamic Shield System (9)   Total Fuel Cost  90 Litres per hour  (2,160 per day)

Fafnir Missile Launcher (3)    Missile Size 60    Rate of Fire 180000
Fafnir Missile FCS (3)     Range 77.8m km    Resolution 1

Fafnir Active Search Sensor [R1] (1)     GPS 180     Range 32.4m km    MCR 3.5m km    Resolution 1
Fafnir Active Search Sensor [R100] (1)     GPS 3600     Range 64.8m km    Resolution 100
Fafnir Passive Search Sensor [TH] (1)     Sensitivity 81     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  81m km
Fafnir Passive Search Sensor [EM] (1)     Sensitivity 81     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  81m km

Small Craft ECCM-2 (3)         ECM 30

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

 --- Component-wise, the Fafnir-Class combines 40 Engineering Spaces with a trio of Improved Damage Control modules and pairs all of this to a single Maintenance Storage Bay. There are a further three Maintenance Storage Bays (for a grand total of four) that support the Fafnir's parasite craft, which are housed in three Hangar Bays. for weaponry the Fafnir-Class has three Size-60 Missile Launchers with Reload 3 and 0.25x Size/Reload x100 and a trio of 750-ton Capacity 270 Magazines with 90% Feed Efficiency and 90% Ejection Chance and 1 HtK. These are mated to a trio of 200 ton Res 1 Missile FCS with Active Search Sensor Strength 36 and EM Sensor Strength 8, while these are sighted for by a single 50 ton Res 100 Active Search Sensor and a 250 Ton Res 1 Active Search Sensor, both with the same tech level. For Passive Sensors the Fafnir-Class has a 225-Ton unit of each type (EM and Thermal) with 8 for their respective  strength techs. The Fafnir-Class mounts three Bridge modules and a single Flag Bridge, while two Small Crew Quarters and 50 standard Crew Quarters form the housing for both the regular crew and the Flight Crew.

 --- The Fafnir-Class also utilizes 100 tons worth of Small Craft ECM / ECCM gear to afford itself a 30% ECM rating while affording it's Missile FCS units a 20% ECCM rating to help preserve some of that potential Size-60 range advantage. A pair of Small Troop Transport Bays provide the Fafnir-Class enough stowage for two Marine Companies to protect it's VIP staff from boarders, which is good considering the nine 1,250 ton Internal Fusion Engines only get this 45,000 Ton beast up to 2,500 km/s when set to maximum burn. The special Fafnir Commercial Engines utilize 50% Thermal Reduction tech to make to make this ship surprisingly sneaky when faced with Thermal Passives, while a 0.25 Litre per Power Hour Fuel consumption tech gives them EXCELLENT fuel economy. The huge jump drive let's it pull up to six additional ships into a 1,000 km Squadron Jump... not too shabby for such a ship. Her Fafnir Dynamic Shield Systems provide 36 shields points every two and a half minutes, while nine layers of Compressed Carbon Armor give it plenty of protection. The Fafnir-Class also mounts three Battalion Sized Cryo Drop Modules for the carriage of Special Forces, or whatever else the reader deems fit. There is also an Advanced Cargo Handling System, allowing the Fafnir-Class to recover it's Drop Modules in a mere 12 hours time. Nine 100-Ton Size 30 Magazines provide any missile-laden parasites the Fafnir-Class might be carrying. Six months of Life Support give it long legs, while the 2,800 Cryogenic Berths... are for Role-Play reasons that I'm going to cover next, although I guess you could use it to make a pocket colony? :-\


 --- The Fafnir-Class is a ship that is longer than it is wide, with it's three massive missile launchers dominating the "Fore" of the craft and it's nine, gigantic engines dominating the "Aft". Tucked away in the center-most portion of the ship is a cavernous, almost luxurious triple-sized Bridge. Seated in a well protected sphere with six ways in or out, the Bridge of the Fafnir-Class holds in it's center the provisions for the vessel's all-important Flag Bridge which is encircled on it's outside by the one of the three inter-changeable Bridge components. Above and below this central ring is another Bridge component, these two connected both to each other, the center Bridge, and the outside of the sphere by a central ladder which comprises the only vertical in or out to this section of the ship. Four more passageways split off from the cardinal axis of the center Bridge, and metal grids serve as the floor for all three of the non-Flag Bridges. Around the inside of this sphere is a large, continuous display (think iMax) which is wired to external cameras to show the outside of the vessel, as well as being able to display a number of other things, namely outside areas, skies, and stars; to help improve the Bridge crews morale.

 --- The engineering spaces are spread out, with several machine shops along with various other niceties and necessities. The ships damage control includes a compartmentalized design utilizing airlock bulkheads which can be locked up from one side as well as locking out control from the other side. In the floors of these compartments are special tarps for use with spray sealant stations found within each one, these are used for patching up the hull breaches. Furthermore, each compartment features an atmosphere station for crew to "plug into" with their EVA gear; as well as manual controls for the atmosphere draining controls to fight fires on board the ship. These atmosphere drains pump the atmosphere in the compartment into holding tanks found in each of the compartments, typically into the one of the adjacent compartments. These drains, and the bulkheads can be operated remotely from the bridge and from any of the many engineering bays. Further maintenance crawlspaces provide crew with alternative methods of activating these systems, and can be flooded with spray sealant from manual stations as well as remotely from Bridge. This spray sealant is a kind of spray on Trans-Newtonian cement not terribly unlike Polyethylene, the crawlspaces are laid out in such a way that flooding them with the spray sealant will give the ship extra structural integrity should it suffer enough damage, while having the drawback of making repairs substantially more difficult.

 --- The missile launchers have integrated magazines, FCS and ECCM systems, making them ultra-compact. A single launcher with it's magazine, FCS and ECCM weighs only a little more than the total mass of a full sized launcher. The downside is that it can only fire once every two days... plus two hours. As such a Fafnir's weapons systems are far better suited to Orbital Bombardment than actual combat... although they can devastate an enemy if they can be hit with them. The Cryogenic Berths provide a means of out-living the Life Support in the event of a catastrophic incident, like a real FUBAR kind of thing. There are too many of these for the whole crew even with the Flight Crew, but that is intentional. The Cryo Berths on a Fafnir are designed for redundancy, and will attempt to keep as many of the crew members alive as possible. This is done by "leeching" off of functional, uninhabited berths should one of the inhabited ones go offline. The "leeching" is done according to a hierarchy, so officers get privilege over enlisted, and senior officers over their juniors, etc.

In-Game Doctrine:

 --- There really isn't too much to say, this is a command ship, it commands things. However, the things I do have to say are kinda important, so I'll list them here. The missiles are not good for stand up fights. They're basically over-glorified box launchers. With a 45,000 Ton ship, I decided to use magazines for the sake of simplicity. A 45,000 Ton Hangar is going to be expensive and weigh more than the ship itself. Meanwhile 45,000 Tons of Maintenance Facilities or Modules is also going to be pricey. Everything on the Fafnir-Class is already pricey, those Size 60 missiles won't come cheap, and those massive engines coupled to those massive sensors are going to require bank... and I mean Bank. This thing sits in at just under 10,000 Build Points, it's quite an investment. Thankfully, you should only really ever need one.. .ever. This ship has no Point-Defense, so it needs an escort, or to carry Point-Defense Fighters. It also has no appreciable weapons for combat, save the fire every two days launchers, so it still needs an escort even WITH a complement Point-Defense Fighters. It can carry six 500-Ton PD Fighters btw, and has a capacity of 15 Size 60 Missiles before factoring in the other magazines. They only add four to the total though, and a month's worth of fire is... excessive to say the least. It's not all bad news though, the Fafnir-Class mounts significant sensors, with a massive 250 Ton Res 1 Sensor, a nominal 50 Ton Res 100 Sensor and a pair of 225 Ton Passive Sensors, giving it monstrous EM and Thermal detection capability. Yeah, you can see it from a million miles away with a big sensor, but the minute you turn them on the Fafnir will see YOU, and I'll bet you a New York Minute that you can't out range a Size 60 Missile. much less three salvos of 'em.

 --- At the end of it all, use the Fafnir for what it is, a Command Ship. It is there to ferry your VIP officers and throws in some Genocide For Fun And Profit along with the mix. It's slow, but hard to take through boarding, the sensors have 50% Electronic Hardening and it can drop a nominal three Battalions of whatever you want whenever you feel like it, because they are Cryo Drop Modules. It can serve well as the eyes of the fleet, deal a punishing opening salvo against large ships or a decisive closing blow to a battered enemy; and if you're filthy rich, it makes an okay-ish Jump Point Guardian if well supported. And it makes a great Jump Ship for other 45,000 Ton Capital Ships.

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