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Topic Summary

Posted by: Erik Luken
« on: May 11, 2011, 10:24:21 PM »

I'll be posting a new pdf tomorrow. My brain is all fuzzy and not tracking so it's going to wait. But here is the change log. Some of the entries apply to strategic rules that won't be in the pdf.

1.   Fixed a number of rule discrepancies.
2.   Removed sensor stealth. Stealth is now completely ECM driven.
3.   Added explicit reductions in acquisition for passives.
4.   Fixed error in starting tech example.
5.   Extended Sensor Tech to 8 from 5.
6.   Corrected some typos in the tech descriptions.
7.   Added crew grade modifiers to surrender.
8.   Added advanced movement example.
9.   Cryogenics added
10.   Supply Points/Supply Depots added
11.   Astrographic Terrain
Posted by: Erik Luken
« on: May 07, 2011, 01:43:12 PM »

Erik

A few more minor tech system errors.

1) Hull signature of tons/55 occurs in both Composites II and Advanced Composites I

2) Kinetic Weapons only has 10 levels in the list but goes up to XIII in the systems description.

3) Astrophysics I should open up the Particle Weapons Branch

4) Particle Weapons Tech Level 10 is missing "50cm" for the aperture improvement.

That's all I've found.

Regards

Alan

1 - Enhanced Composites should have 60 and 65 for the signature mod.
2 - Fixed the table. Progression is linear from other values.
3 - Fixed description of Astrophysics I.
4 - Fixed.
Posted by: alanwebber
« on: May 07, 2011, 05:07:20 AM »

Erik

A few more minor tech system errors.

1) Hull signature of tons/55 occurs in both Composites II and Advanced Composites I

2) Kinetic Weapons only has 10 levels in the list but goes up to XIII in the systems description.

3) Astrophysics I should open up the Particle Weapons Branch

4) Particle Weapons Tech Level 10 is missing "50cm" for the aperture improvement.

That's all I've found.

Regards

Alan
Posted by: Erik Luken
« on: May 06, 2011, 01:14:35 PM »

Erik

At least with a 53 hex targeting range you can fire the laser to its full damage range and beyond. I hesitate to try to suggest anything as so much is interwoven that changing things may unbalance the game in ways I'm not aware of.

A few things I've noticed on the research trees.

Shields VIII has Shield Regen VI, should be Shield Regen IV.
Force Tech II and III have Electron Torpedo Tech I and Proton Torpedo Tech I attached accordingly. However, these shouldn't be available till Physics IV - in fact they're the only tech trees associated with that tech so this looks like a typo. I'm working through these and putting them on a spreadsheet so I should pick up any other anomalies at some point.

Alan

Fixed the tech errors. I'm thinking of a few more levels of tech in the Base Sensor Class to extend the ranges out.
Posted by: Erik Luken
« on: May 06, 2011, 01:08:12 PM »

Just goes to prove I'm still working through the tech trees.

The last question. No but a 1 hardpoint laser is 15 tons, a 1 hardpoint missile launcher is now 200 tons.

Hardpoints don't really have a set tonnage. I think of hardpoints more as external surface facing than size.
Posted by: alanwebber
« on: May 06, 2011, 12:52:27 PM »

I am contemplating increasing the rate of fire on lasers, substantially.

I'm not sure I'd call particle beams and particle bombs low tech. Particle bombs need Astrophysics I which requires Physics IV. Normal tech starts are 5000 RP, Low Tech is 3000 RP, and High Tech is 7000 RP. A basic start on tech for a viable ship is 4250 RP. That's only granting lasers as the weapon system. Adding missiles puts you up to 4350. To add mass cannons, you need minimum 1200 RP (Military Science I and Kinetic Wpn Tech I).  Enough digression :)

Unless otherwise stated (seeking weapons are usually by containment strength), it is by the power used to fire the weapon.

So you are saying missile launchers should be lighter than lasers?

Just goes to prove I'm still working through the tech trees.

The last question. No but a 1 hardpoint laser is 15 tons, a 1 hardpoint missile launcher is now 200 tons.
Posted by: alanwebber
« on: May 06, 2011, 12:47:35 PM »

Going back to sensors and range.

The maximum current lock range is 35 hexes, which is just over a light-second. Maximum detection range is 70 hexes, or just over 2 LS. The mod, Basic Sensor Boost provides a 50% increase in targeting range. So the lock range becomes 53 hexes.

Without increasing sensor ranges, the only thing I can think of for lasers would be to decouple range from aperture and put it back on frequency, and shifting damage from frequency to aperture.

Erik

At least with a 53 hex targeting range you can fire the laser to its full damage range and beyond. I hesitate to try to suggest anything as so much is interwoven that changing things may unbalance the game in ways I'm not aware of.

A few things I've noticed on the research trees.

Shields VIII has Shield Regen VI, should be Shield Regen IV.
Force Tech II and III have Electron Torpedo Tech I and Proton Torpedo Tech I attached accordingly. However, these shouldn't be available till Physics IV - in fact they're the only tech trees associated with that tech so this looks like a typo. I'm working through these and putting them on a spreadsheet so I should pick up any other anomalies at some point.

Alan
Posted by: Erik Luken
« on: May 06, 2011, 12:41:22 PM »

Erik

Are lasers the only weapons to suffer from Rate of Fire modifications? Some have a fire delay but all the rest seem to be able to fire every turn. Looking at the damage caused, this seems to give them an advantage over lasers (although some of them only have short ranges). It looks like the only weapons available at low tech (assuming slightly different starting tech) are lasers, mass cannons, kinetic beams, particle beams and particle bombs along with missiles. How do you determine the signature increase for these weapons (other than lasers) - is it based on the power supplied? It is specifically stated for lasers but not for the others. If it's okay, I'll send you an updated spreadsheet with an escort or picket sized ship for each types of weapon for comment via email for comment.
I am contemplating increasing the rate of fire on lasers, substantially.

I'm not sure I'd call particle beams and particle bombs low tech. Particle bombs need Astrophysics I which requires Physics IV. Normal tech starts are 5000 RP, Low Tech is 3000 RP, and High Tech is 7000 RP. A basic start on tech for a viable ship is 4250 RP. That's only granting lasers as the weapon system. Adding missiles puts you up to 4350. To add mass cannons, you need minimum 1200 RP (Military Science I and Kinetic Wpn Tech I).  Enough digression :)

Unless otherwise stated (seeking weapons are usually by containment strength), it is by the power used to fire the weapon.

I'm not sure why you have increased the size of missile launchers by so much. It's pushed a ship with 10 missile launchers up in size by 1250 tons which has made the discrepency between a 1 hard point missile launcher and a 1 hard point laser even worse. Just a comment.

Alan

So you are saying missile launchers should be lighter than lasers?
Posted by: Erik Luken
« on: May 06, 2011, 12:08:41 PM »

Going back to sensors and range.

The maximum current lock range is 35 hexes, which is just over a light-second. Maximum detection range is 70 hexes, or just over 2 LS. The mod, Basic Sensor Boost provides a 50% increase in targeting range. So the lock range becomes 53 hexes.

Without increasing sensor ranges, the only thing I can think of for lasers would be to decouple range from aperture and put it back on frequency, and shifting damage from frequency to aperture.
Posted by: Erik Luken
« on: May 06, 2011, 11:58:28 AM »

1 - Yes.
2 - I'll fix that.
3 - How would you have the crew grade modify the roll? Would an elite crew be more likely to surrender in a hopeless situation or not?
4 - I'll fix that too.
5 - Relic from when there were no increase/decreased rates of fire.
6 - Currently you cannot acquire a target under passives. I'll play around with that a bit.
7 - Good point
8 - Another good point
9 - I will most likely end up increasing sensor ranges.
1 - Fixed
2 - Fixed
3 - still open
4 - Fixed
5 - Fixed
6 - Fixed. Stealth is now only an ECM mode. Passives may lock on with -25% chance.
7 - Clarified
8 - Fixed
9 - Still toying with.
Posted by: Erik Luken
« on: May 06, 2011, 11:42:52 AM »

Point 3. I think an elite crew would be more likely to fight on and a green crew to surrender.

Alan
But wouldn't the elite crew recognize the futility of trying to outrun a faster opponent, or continue to fight on with minimal or no weapons?

I can really see it going either way, actually.
Posted by: alanwebber
« on: May 06, 2011, 11:40:05 AM »

Point 3. I think an elite crew would be more likely to fight on and a green crew to surrender.

Alan
Posted by: Erik Luken
« on: May 06, 2011, 11:14:51 AM »

Erik

I've quickly read through the v4 playtest rules. I suspect I'll have some questions as I work through the various weapon types but I have a few comments and/or questions.

1) On the subject of missiles, am I right in assuming that they have a speed = thrust? The use of the thrust rating to determine speed could suggest that they increase speed by their thrust rating each turn. e.g. with a thrust of 10, they move at speed 10 on turn 1, 20 on turn 2 etc. Maybe using the title speed rather than thrust would be clearer.

2) Chapters 2 and 3 disagree on the cost for missiles and small craft to change hexsides.

3) I like the surrender roll. Perhaps there could be a penalty associated with how many requirements have been met, maybe higher for lower crew grades?

4) Page 7 - firing - still says percentile roll should be higher than the hit number.

5) It also says weapons may fire once - shouldn't that be determined by rate of fire.

6) Can passive sensors perform target acquisition at reduced range and performance? If not, it seems strange that you can under stealth but not under passives.

7) Applying damage. I think it could be clearer that the total damage points are reduced by the HTK of the damaged system. Also, that a partially damaged system (insufficient remaining damage points to equal the HTK) is regarded as disabled (as per your previous email).

8) Page 11 - Compensator damage - This should probably say - If the compensators are damaged the ship cannot exceed a speed equal to its engine's thrust rating without penalty (now engines have their own in-built compensators).

9) Coment - Lasers - the maximum detection range from sensors is 35 hexes. Why go above 75 cm aperture when the only advantage is increased range which you can't use. Also, why would you go from 30 to 35 cm aperture as you gain a slight increase in range with a halving of your broadside damage (twice the number HP required)? Perhaps you could get an increased damage potential for each HP increase.

That's all I've spotted for now. I'll need to adjust my spreadsheets for the changes and I think I'll use the starting technologies for the Terrans and start building some basic ships based on the systems available. This should give some interesting match-ups with different weapons.

Regards

Alan

1 - Yes.
2 - I'll fix that.
3 - How would you have the crew grade modify the roll? Would an elite crew be more likely to surrender in a hopeless situation or not?
4 - I'll fix that too.
5 - Relic from when there were no increase/decreased rates of fire.
6 - Currently you cannot acquire a target under passives. I'll play around with that a bit.
7 - Good point
8 - Another good point
9 - I will most likely end up increasing sensor ranges.
Posted by: alanwebber
« on: May 06, 2011, 04:53:36 AM »

Erik

Are lasers the only weapons to suffer from Rate of Fire modifications? Some have a fire delay but all the rest seem to be able to fire every turn. Looking at the damage caused, this seems to give them an advantage over lasers (although some of them only have short ranges). It looks like the only weapons available at low tech (assuming slightly different starting tech) are lasers, mass cannons, kinetic beams, particle beams and particle bombs along with missiles. How do you determine the signature increase for these weapons (other than lasers) - is it based on the power supplied? It is specifically stated for lasers but not for the others. If it's okay, I'll send you an updated spreadsheet with an escort or picket sized ship for each types of weapon for comment via email for comment.

I'm not sure why you have increased the size of missile launchers by so much. It's pushed a ship with 10 missile launchers up in size by 1250 tons which has made the discrepency between a 1 hard point missile launcher and a 1 hard point laser even worse. Just a comment.

Alan
Posted by: alanwebber
« on: May 06, 2011, 04:05:07 AM »

Erik

I've quickly read through the v4 playtest rules. I suspect I'll have some questions as I work through the various weapon types but I have a few comments and/or questions.

1) On the subject of missiles, am I right in assuming that they have a speed = thrust? The use of the thrust rating to determine speed could suggest that they increase speed by their thrust rating each turn. e.g. with a thrust of 10, they move at speed 10 on turn 1, 20 on turn 2 etc. Maybe using the title speed rather than thrust would be clearer.

2) Chapters 2 and 3 disagree on the cost for missiles and small craft to change hexsides.

3) I like the surrender roll. Perhaps there could be a penalty associated with how many requirements have been met, maybe higher for lower crew grades?

4) Page 7 - firing - still says percentile roll should be higher than the hit number.

5) It also says weapons may fire once - shouldn't that be determined by rate of fire.

6) Can passive sensors perform target acquisition at reduced range and performance? If not, it seems strange that you can under stealth but not under passives.

7) Applying damage. I think it could be clearer that the total damage points are reduced by the HTK of the damaged system. Also, that a partially damaged system (insufficient remaining damage points to equal the HTK) is regarded as disabled (as per your previous email).

8) Page 11 - Compensator damage - This should probably say - If the compensators are damaged the ship cannot exceed a speed equal to its engine's thrust rating without penalty (now engines have their own in-built compensators).

9) Coment - Lasers - the maximum detection range from sensors is 35 hexes. Why go above 75 cm aperture when the only advantage is increased range which you can't use. Also, why would you go from 30 to 35 cm aperture as you gain a slight increase in range with a halving of your broadside damage (twice the number HP required)? Perhaps you could get an increased damage potential for each HP increase.

That's all I've spotted for now. I'll need to adjust my spreadsheets for the changes and I think I'll use the starting technologies for the Terrans and start building some basic ships based on the systems available. This should give some interesting match-ups with different weapons.

Regards

Alan
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