Aurora 4x
Fiction => C# Test Campaigns => Steve's Fiction => Aurora => The Great Crusade => Topic started by: Father Tim on January 05, 2019, 09:40:02 PM
-
One HUNDRED MILLION Spaceport workers? Are they passing everything up the space elevator hand-to-hand in a human chain?
-
Now I'm imagining that chain... and it's glorious :D
-
One HUNDRED MILLION Spaceport workers? Are they passing everything up the space elevator hand-to-hand in a human chain?
guess it's because of the 100 (!) Refueling Stations, 100 (!) Ordnance Transfer Stations, 100 (!) Cargo Shuttle Stations mostly 100 (!) Spaceports...
öhm.. Steve, did you SM these for the starting parameters of are these "standart facilities" for 1000m population in TN start? :o
-
LOL I hadn't even noticed :)
Thanks for spotting. The NPRs are fine BTW. It is only affecting the player race, which is weird. I'll let you know what I find.
EDIT: Found it. It was part of the custom player race creation that allows you to edit the number of starting installations. The fighter factory number was being copied into some code for logistics installations that should have been removed. That code wasn't accessed for the NPRs, so they weren't affected. I've updated the screenshots.
-
This campaing reminds me of the old one you did, with the minister who was pushing for kinetic weapons everywhere because he had a large involvement with the kinetic weapon manufacturers XD. Will we see something like this ? I'd love to see how energy weapon combatants fare in C# Aurora.
-
Just noticed that the starting manufacturing efficiency is at 70 odd percent. Not sure if that is a screen shot from before the 100m dock workers was fixed and hence there was a worker shortage or something else?
-
Just noticed that the starting manufacturing efficiency is at 70 odd percent. Not sure if that is a screen shot from before the 100m dock workers was fixed and hence there was a worker shortage or something else?
Should have been corrected when I fixed the 100 spaceports problem. I can't see the images here so I will check when I get home tonight.
-
The starting option "Jump Gates on all Jump Points" should read "Jump Stabilization for all Jump Points" now, or shouldn't it?
-
The starting option "Jump Gates on all Jump Points" should read "Jump Stabilization for all Jump Points" now, or shouldn't it?
already fixed:
Steve one small point to note. On the game set up screen the warp point check point still refers to "jump gates on all warp points". I guess that should now just be "stable warp points". I suspect that eradicating the scourge of jump gates from the game will be a long and arduous process!
Just one side thought on this, with the progress made on the AI and the ability for updated orders to be provided to ships do you think you may get the position where warp point destabilisation tech may become a possibility?
Fixed the text. Theoretically, destabilisation could be added as an option but I want to have a lot more experience with the AI before I open that particular door :)
-
What are the STB Locus Stellatum 1,2,3 and 4 seen in the Naval Organization screenshot?
-
What are the STB Locus Stellatum 1,2,3 and 4 seen in the Naval Organization screenshot?
Jump Point Stabilisation Ships (the new version of Jump gate Construction Ships).
-
I've just run into a campaign-breaking bug - grrr!
In a real systems game, the program is supposed to keep track of which real systems are generated, so that each system is only generated once and to check if two races find the same real system. Unfortunately I wasn't saving that value. I realised when I created my second Bernard's Star :)
Although the DB had a zero value, some detective work using star types, binary distances and 3D positions allowed me to work out most of the real systems for each generated system. Unfortunately they included duplicate Alpha Centauri and one other duplicate, plus Bernard's Star. It would be messy to fix with the NPRs already active in those systems, so I am going to restart. I was really looking forward to the ruins on Mercury too!
Anyway, I will use the same general setup values and keep the background, although I might not end up with the same ship designs. I will revamp the screenshots as needed once I redo the setup. Here is a couple of paragraphs from the relatively uneventful five pages of AAR I had written, which provide an indication of how different colony opportunities will seems after some of the C' changes.
Valiant, under the command of Captain Zachariel Trajan, emerges in 61 Cygni, a binary system of two K-class stars orbiting thirteen billion kilometres apart. The primary has three terrestrial planets, one of which has a single moon. The innermost is a Venusian world with a thick, toxic atmosphere. The second planet, which like the first is tide-locked to the star, has acceptable gravity, a nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere of 0.375 atm and a surface temperature of 78C. The world is almost completely covered in water, with small archipelagos taking up only 0.2% of the surface. The oxygen content is minimal, at only 0.004 atm, but this could be terraformed into a habitable world once the technology is available. Even though the temperature is high, the fact the planet is tide-locked means that settlers can exist in the zone between the light and dark sides of the planet, making the colony cost for temperature just 0.33. However, the combination of minimal land area and the restriction to the twilight zone, means the maximum population of the planet is currently only twelve million. Terraforming could improve this by extracting water vapour from the atmosphere, allowing further evaporation of the oceans. The third planet has a similar atmosphere of 0.33 atm, with 0.007 atm of oxygen. The temperature is -83C, which combined with hydrographic extent above 80%, makes ice fields the dominant terrain.
The B component has eight planets, two of which are gas giants, and thirty-eight moons. The two innermost planets are terrestrial and tide-locked so, despite their respective surface temperatures of 196C and -43C, are both colony cost 2.00. Even so, given they have minimal atmosphere and no water, they are not attractive prospects for terraforming. Valiant reports her findings and is instructed to survey the planets of the primary. The other two geosurvey vessels, Venture and Voyager, are currently in the Kuiper Belt and outer Mars-Jupiter belt respectively. Very few inner system bodies have yet to be surveyed. With that in mind, Rear Admiral Martellus orders Voyager to complete her current planned survey tasks and then investigate jump point one.
-
It's not a game breaking bug, it's a war between mirror universes!
(I kid. Sorry you had to restart, but better to catch it now than later I guess!)
-
I've just run into a campaign-breaking bug - grrr!
In a real systems game, the program is supposed to keep track of which real systems are generated, so that each system is only generated once and to check if two races find the same real system. Unfortunately I wasn't saving that value. I realised when I created my second Bernard's Star :)
Although the DB had a zero value, some detective work using star types, binary distances and 3D positions allowed me to work out most of the real systems for each generated system. Unfortunately they included duplicate Alpha Centauri and one other duplicate, plus Bernard's Star. It would be messy to fix with the NPRs already active in those systems, so I am going to restart. I was really looking forward to the ruins on Mercury too!
Would it help to add a "save game feature" for testing so that you don't have to start again every time you run into such a gamebreaker? Or would it be too complicated to make a change savegame compatible? Guess it would be difficiult to see if a bug is a "new" bug or because of the chances between versions with the same savegame... hmm... merde -.-
-
Would it help to add a "save game feature" for testing so that you don't have to start again every time you run into such a gamebreaker? Or would it be too complicated to make a change savegame compatible? Guess it would be difficiult to see if a bug is a "new" bug or because of the chances between versions with the same savegame... hmm... merde -.-
There is a save game feature. In fact, that is the only way to save the game as it no longer accesses the database during play. I've just saved a lot over the last couple of days and I don't want to go back to an pre-campaign backup and then fix the db-related bugs I already fixed once :)
Starting again is easier and I can apply what I learned already.
-
It's not a game breaking bug, it's a war between mirror universes!
(I kid. Sorry you had to restart, but better to catch it now than later I guess!)
You know a few times I have considered a campaign where all jump points lead to different versions of Sol :)
-
You know a few times I have considered a campaign where all jump points lead to different versions of Sol :)
Nebula Sol is best Sol!
-
Also, why does the (new) Terran Imperium have a Manufacturing Efficiency Modifier of 72.1%? That seems like the number it had with the demand for 100 million Spaceport workers (277.4 million total) overloading the available 200 million workers (aka 72.098%).
-
Also, why does the (new) Terran Imperium have a Manufacturing Efficiency Modifier of 72.1%? That seems like the number it had with the demand for 100 million Spaceport workers (277.4 million total) overloading the available 200 million workers (aka 72.098%).
I probably removed the spaceports and redid the screenshot without running a construction phase, which is when the efficiency is calculated.
It will replaced by the new campaign screenshot. I generated the campaign last night and did not roll well on naval shipyards - 7000 tons, 5000 tons and 2000 tons, so I will be redoing the ship designs as well.
-
Let's call it an extra early game challenge (the shipyards, not the restart).
Also are you planning to do some ground combat during this game ?
-
Let's call it an extra early game challenge (the shipyards, not the restart).
Also are you planning to do some ground combat during this game ?
The NPRs, Precursors and Swarm all have ground forces so assuming I run into them, there should be some ground combat.
-
Nice. I didn't even knew the swarms had soldiers to begin with so that's a nice thing to know. Good luck then and have a nice game !
-
Screenshots redone. The Cerberus class ships are jump tenders that have a second role as tankers.
-
Screenshots redone. The Cerberus class ships are jump tenders that have a second role as tankers.
And redone again :)
A couple more bugs, plus endless red dwarf stars, plus I think I may be bitten by the restart bug. Anyway, this restart had good shipyards, reasonable scientists and OK minerals so I decided to allocate tech differently and go beam-first with no missile tech as yet. Updates to follow (assuming I don't restart again).
-
narf.. feeling with you :)
Question about your "Tempest Jump Frigate":
the exact size is slightly heavier than 6000t (120.03 HS = 6001,5t - will the jump drive use the 6000t shown or the 6001t the ship is really using as the ship speed is doing?
EDIT: OK, seems it should be using the exact size as you got an error message for the design because of it... maybe the 6000t shown should be rounded up to 6002 so the player does not have to check ton-size and exact size parallel if it is nearing the limit... ???
-
narf.. feeling with you :)
Question about your "Tempest Jump Frigate":
the exact size is slightly heavier than 6000t (120.03 HS = 6001,5t - will the jump drive use the 6000t shown or the 6001t the ship is really using as the ship speed is doing?
EDIT: OK, seems it should be using the exact size as you got an error message for the design because of it... maybe the 6000t shown should be rounded up to 6002 so the player does not have to check ton-size and exact size parallel if it is nearing the limit... ???
lol it was fine before the screenshot. It seems that if I set the deployment time it is dead on 120. Then if I click somewhere else and then click back, it changes to 120.03. I'll class that as a bug :)
-
This is why test campaigns exist, so steve can save us from the frustrating new game restartitus bugs. :p
I'm liking the setting so far, but the low range of those secondary firecontrols (64k) compared to the lasers (90k) ( irks me :p
Though I see theres another turret called Twin GL10-NU with a 64k range so it makes sense to reuse the firecons of slightly less capable ships rather than waste RP for small gains at this stage.
Weird though they both have the same name but different ranges. An artifact of the restart?
-
And there was me thinking they were just for my reading pleasure.
It means that closing to 90000km a tg still has some point defence capability without having to manually configure anything and/or delve into other pd mechanisms. In vb6 you'd be almost guaranteed to get hit by any missiles launched that close.
-
It's not a game breaking bug, it's a war between mirror universes!
(I kid. Sorry you had to restart, but better to catch it now than later I guess!)
You know a few times I have considered a campaign where all jump points lead to different versions of Sol :)
OMG! A campaign where the jumps lead to all of the home worlds from all of your campaigns. Instant all out war, the strongest survive!
Kurt
-
I was thinking about the starting installations again...
the player got 1 Spaceport and 1 Cargo Shuttle Station, 1 Refuelling Station, 1 Ordnance Transfer Station
As the Spaceport has the same capacities (and more, I got it now :) ) as the stations AND they don't stack - wouldn't it be better to just give him a spaceport?
If I am not wrong, the 3 stations at gamestart would be only good for "kickstart a colony" when colonizing and moving them to the new colony or am I missing something again?
-
If I am not wrong, the 3 stations at gamestart would be only good for "kickstart a colony" when colonizing and moving them to the new colony or am I missing something again?
Yes, the extra installations are to assist in early expansion, along with the 100 infrastructure.
-
Frankly Steve? I would've claimed Venus as a colony ASAP or pounced on the CMC there and bought its minerals as soon as I could. 4 million tons of Duranium at 0.8 availability is nothing to sneeze at.
-
Frankly Steve? I would've claimed Venus as a colony ASAP or pounced on the CMC there and bought its minerals as soon as I could. 4 million tons of Duranium at 0.8 availability is nothing to sneeze at.
I needed the money more than the minerals :)
In fact, it looks like C# Aurora is more 'expensive' due to the additional demands on wealth, so I am going to add an extra Wealth +20% at 3000 RP (currently starts at 5000 RP).
-
Entirely understandable. I would've still claimed Venus as a colony site for later automated mining exploitation. Fuel sales would've had to do until the civilian shipping started doing its job spawning new sources of wealth on Mars and any inhabitable extra solar bodies, even if it needs a bit of jump starting with infrastructure and colonists.
-
Entirely understandable. I would've still claimed Venus as a colony site for later automated mining exploitation. Fuel sales would've had to do until the civilian shipping started doing its job spawning new sources of wealth on Mars and any inhabitable extra solar bodies, even if it needs a bit of jump starting with infrastructure and colonists.
I don't need to claim Venus and prevent a CMC. I can still mine it using my own automated mines even with the CMC in place. It's not as if the Civs are going to mine all the minerals. At the moment, they have depletion in 80,000 years :)
I am better with both the CMC and my own mines than just my own mines.
-
Were there changes in C# that make terraforming significantly more difficult, or perhaps the population capacity is low on most of the worlds you found? I ask because the Alpha Centauri planets were said to "not be terraforming targets" once you got the tech and, even with all the low CC worlds (all the 2-colony cost worlds that seemed to only need a thin atmosphere added) the tone seemed to be disappointed/concerned for the future from the number of jump points surveyed v only finding the 2 habitable worlds. It could also be that I'm misreading the tone of the AAR and/or it was simply focusing on worlds that didn't need terraforming for the initial expansion.
At any rate, I look forward to more. :)
Definitely haven't been checking this sub every/every other day since I saw you post the starting conditions for this campaign.
-
I needed the money more than the minerals :)
In fact, it looks like C# Aurora is more 'expensive' due to the additional demands on wealth, so I am going to add an extra Wealth +20% at 3000 RP (currently starts at 5000 RP).
looks like you are already running into balancing changes instead of only bug fixes.. yeah ;D
Is the NPR running in the same wealth problem as you?
how is the new "geological survey" mechanic working for you balancing wise? are there enough body's with potential for ground survey to make it worth to build the units? I am looking forward to your experience there because of the reduced chances in C# vs VB6 to find additional minerals :)
-
Were there changes in C# that make terraforming significantly more difficult, or perhaps the population capacity is low on most of the worlds you found? I ask because the Alpha Centauri planets were said to "not be terraforming targets" once you got the tech and, even with all the low CC worlds (all the 2-colony cost worlds that seemed to only need a thin atmosphere added) the tone seemed to be disappointed/concerned for the future from the number of jump points surveyed v only finding the 2 habitable worlds. It could also be that I'm misreading the tone of the AAR and/or it was simply focusing on worlds that didn't need terraforming for the initial expansion.
At any rate, I look forward to more. :)
Definitely haven't been checking this sub every/every other day since I saw you post the starting conditions for this campaign.
The difference is the water. You need 20% water now for ideal habitable and it takes about 1 atm of water vapour to create that much surface water. It takes more effort to add the water than a breathable atmosphere. Planets with water are now far more valuable than planets without.
On the other hand, on small moons with 0.1G or higher, it should be faster to add the water and the atmosphere than just the atmosphere on a terrestrial world.
-
That's... not a reason not to terraform. Frankly, you could do the atmosphere, move a good chunk of the terraformers off world towards other planets (that preferably already have enough water) and just let the water add over time.
For any sensible government, that's a perfectly alright approach to the problem. It's just a long term, large scale infrastructure solution, and it's not as if those are unknown.
And frankly? A perfectly habitable world is a massive boon in real life compared to one that needs domes or expansive and expensive water handling infrastructure to maintain the colony's habitability.
-
I needed the money more than the minerals :)
In fact, it looks like C# Aurora is more 'expensive' due to the additional demands on wealth, so I am going to add an extra Wealth +20% at 3000 RP (currently starts at 5000 RP).
looks like you are already running into balancing changes instead of only bug fixes.. yeah ;D
Is the NPR running in the same wealth problem as you?
how is the new "geological survey" mechanic working for you balancing wise? are there enough body's with potential for ground survey to make it worth to build the units? I am looking forward to your experience there because of the reduced chances in C# vs VB6 to find additional minerals :)
NPRs don't pay for research so they are running OK. Still close to running out at times but they adjust production in that situation until finances improve.
I've found about 6 so far, all minimal or low, so I think I went too low on the ground-based geo chances. NPR is doing slightly better. Even so, I think I will increase the chances for the next game.
-
That's... not a reason not to terraform. Frankly, you could do the atmosphere, move a good chunk of the terraformers off world towards other planets (that preferably already have enough water) and just let the water add over time.
For any sensible government, that's a perfectly alright approach to the problem. It's just a long term, large scale infrastructure solution, and it's not as if those are unknown.
And frankly? A perfectly habitable world is a massive boon in real life compared to one that needs domes or expansive and expensive water handling infrastructure to maintain the colony's habitability.
I'm still terraforming. I'm just changing how I judge suitable worlds.
-
If it's worth colonizing and you can make it perfectly habitable it's worth terraforming. Only question is how many resources you throw at it.
-
And there isn't any extra resources to go around at this stage, it seems. So it's perfectly reasonable to dismiss dry planets for now, with the hope of directing the scarce terraforming resources to a planet that only needs small adjustments to make it ideal. Ten or twenty years down the line, with more resources available, those dry planets can be sorted out.
That galaxy map sorting code looks pretty good to me already.
-
The use of specialized orbital bases to get around shipyard capacity is very interesting change to the game. I'm surprised you didn't go for orbital fuel harvester stations as well to keep that fourth shipyard free. Presumably you could then add a single "tanker" station with pumping components to make a fully functional orbital fuel depot?
-
Not how it works. Any object with a fuel transfer system can only transfer away from itself. IIRC fuel depots can't actually empty ships, you need a fuel transfer system on the ship itself.
And likewise IIRC, ships can't be refueled by more than 1 other ship/facility at a time.
-
Not how it works. Any object with a fuel transfer system can only transfer away from itself. IIRC fuel depots can't actually empty ships, you need a fuel transfer system on the ship itself.
And likewise IIRC, ships can't be refueled by more than 1 other ship/facility at a time.
when the harvesting stations have a refuelling hub and are flagged as tanker it should be possible... with
"A new 'Transfer Fuel to Refuelling Hub' order has been added. Any class designated as a tanker can transfer fuel to any ship with a Refuelling Hub. The transfer is done at the refuelling rate of the tanker. If multiple tankers are in the fleet, they can transfer fuel simultaneously" they can also restock the "fuel depot" in the same time
-
The tide locked changes sound interesting. How exactly is that handled by the game, and how does land mass affect population capacity and such?
Is there a certain area of land usable at low colony cost within the tide locked zone and when you go above a certain population would you then need infrastructure?
-
Some information about population capacity on tide-locked planets:
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg100078#msg100078
This is the C# Change list that Steve wrote.
-
Oh, neat. I missed that. It would be cool to eventually have the option to build "out" of the habitable zone at a colony cost corresponding to the temperature.
-
Athena-A II is the most habitable world discovered outside the Sol system, with a colony cost of 0.18. The planet is huge, with a diameter of 25,000 kilometres, double that of Terra, and gravity of 1.71G, just within human tolerance.
Squats! Squats!
Gotta play with that new genetic modification code and make Squats!
-
Athena-A II is the most habitable world discovered outside the Sol system, with a colony cost of 0.18. The planet is huge, with a diameter of 25,000 kilometres, double that of Terra, and gravity of 1.71G, just within human tolerance.
Squats! Squats!
Gotta play with that new genetic modification code and make Squats!
Do you want Tyranids? Because this is how you get Tyranids.
(Actually it sounds like we will be getting Tyranids, so I say go for it ;D )
-
After reading the AAR, I have 2 questions.
Will the main biome changes as terraforming progresses? Because if it starts tundra, it should switch to something else when made more habitable.
What are the limitations of construction factories regarding ship building. They seem to workaround the huge trouble, cost and time to retool slipways, so there must be something ?
subsidiary question: Why a single biome per planet? Big bodies should have severals, and they each can be a sub compartment of the planet. Imagine you land in the great plain of Erewhon, and then fight your way to conquer all the planet, down to the last place of resistance, the Deep Forest of Styrgia. That would be cool!
ps: anybody played Freedom in the Galaxy, a 1980' boardgame where planets had several environs to fight for or conduct missions (as the game featured an evil empire against rebels)
-
After reading the AAR, I have 2 questions.
What are the limitations of construction factories regarding ship building. They seem to workaround the huge trouble, cost and time to retool slipways, so there must be something ?
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg106780#msg106780
you can't build "ships" with factories, only space stations ... with the listed limitations...
http://aurorawiki.pentarch.org/index.php?title=C-Space_Stations
-
After reading the AAR, I have 2 questions.
Will the main biome changes as terraforming progresses? Because if it starts tundra, it should switch to something else when made more habitable.
What are the limitations of construction factories regarding ship building. They seem to workaround the huge trouble, cost and time to retool slipways, so there must be something ?
subsidiary question: Why a single biome per planet? Big bodies should have severals, and they each can be a sub compartment of the planet. Imagine you land in the great plain of Erewhon, and then fight your way to conquer all the planet, down to the last place of resistance, the Deep Forest of Styrgia. That would be cool!
ps: anybody played Freedom in the Galaxy, a 1980' boardgame where planets had several environs to fight for or conduct missions (as the game featured an evil empire against rebels)
Yes, the biome will change as conditions change.
Factories can only build space stations, so no armour, weapons, engines, etc. allowed.
I don't want to get too complex with biomes until I have run a lot of ground combat.
-
This is only a minor update as I have been distracted lately by the BattleTech expansion and Battlefleet Gothic Armada II. Also, I am probably going to start a new campaign soon and go back to a multiple Sol start, perhaps with NPRs in Sol or with multiple player races and non-Sol NPRs. Having that multiple start adds to the immediate competition and will makes the AAR more interesting early on. I may also change some of the balancing factors such as chance of ruins and chance of ground survey. BTW maintenance facilities are a lot more important now and become a serious option when considering what to construct.
maybe it would make sense to start a small test-game with only let's say 20-30 systems but 2 NPR's - so that you can test the combat changes... a Sol-NPR would be nice but not sure if it would tamper with the build-up AI of the NPR..
also I am really looking for a test of ground combat ;D
...
also question: would it be possible to set up a "hands down" game with only NPR's to test the AI for let's say 200 ingame years? Some long-term experience would be great... just to see if all your new ideas are working for the AI in the long run...
-
You know if you restart a campaign, I think (and this is just my opinion) that a cross between NATO vs USSR and Solarian Empires would be a nice idea for a start. You have 2-3 player empires, so you can make at least some diplomacy and power blocks, and the NPRs across the solar system will provide the early game interest while keeping the micro of several nations to a reasonable level. Plus it would probably let you test out planetary invasions relatively early on if the NPRs are on the war mongering side.
-
You know if you restart a campaign, I think (and this is just my opinion) that a cross between NATO vs USSR and Solarian Empires would be a nice idea for a start. You have 2-3 player empires, so you can make at least some diplomacy and power blocks, and the NPRs across the solar system will provide the early game interest while keeping the micro of several nations to a reasonable level. Plus it would probably let you test out planetary invasions relatively early on if the NPRs are on the war mongering side.
Yes, I did consider just rerunning Solarian Empires. I'll probably go with a smaller version of Colonial Wars, except with Precursors and Swarm, and after a while turn on NPRs. I need to test ground combat and the new wealth rules and that will be easier with competing player races. I will run a campaign at some point with NPRs in Sol, but I don't want too many things at once to test. Precursors and Swarm will allow NPR fleet combat testing.
-
You know if you restart a campaign, I think (and this is just my opinion) that a cross between NATO vs USSR and Solarian Empires would be a nice idea for a start. You have 2-3 player empires, so you can make at least some diplomacy and power blocks, and the NPRs across the solar system will provide the early game interest while keeping the micro of several nations to a reasonable level. Plus it would probably let you test out planetary invasions relatively early on if the NPRs are on the war mongering side.
Yes, I did consider just rerunning Solarian Empires. I'll probably go with a smaller version of Colonial Wars, except with Precursors and Swarm, and after a while turn on NPRs. I need to test ground combat and the new wealth rules and that will be easier with competing player races. I will run a campaign at some point with NPRs in Sol, but I don't want too many things at once to test. Precursors and Swarm will allow NPR fleet combat testing.
Ah, so interstellar diplomacy will be back, nice ! It's too bad we never saw if those Martian IPM (Inter-Planetary Missile) were actually viable in Colonial Wars.
And we'll get some sweet sweet ground combat on top. I can't wait !
In any case, good game and have fun !