Aurora 4x
C# Aurora => General Discussion => Topic started by: Marski on April 14, 2020, 10:28:43 AM
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I wanted to see how small-scale you can go when making ground forces in C# Aurora.
So I looked up a 1980's equipment & personnel list of a Soviet Red Army motorized rifle battalion (motorstrelki), modernized it a hint and then went ahead to try to recreate it down to the smallest detail possible.
(https://i.imgur.com/xu50QJh.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/0M9OjWc.png)
And so on and so forth.
The only thing stopping me from naming the invidual firearm each and every trooper is carrying is the fact that I felt the weapon descriptions were too vague to determine if they were sidearms or light machineguns. So I left the invidual soldiers relatively vague as well.
oh and the document in question which I based this on: https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm100-2-3.pdf
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That's great! Real nice effort there! I really like it.
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This is incredible, any plans for naval OOB?
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I'm curious how effective this would be in combat. All I've done so far is make elcheapo "garrison" infantry that use crappy weapons. :P
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This is incredible, any plans for naval OOB?
One of my old fleets from ancient VB6 Aurora campaign. But first, I still need to figure out how this new fleet organization system works.
Steve has done exceptional work with the ground forces and I expect nothing less from the fleet system.
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I'm trying to look up organization for say the US Army and I'm having a hard time finding unit specifics. I can see the basic org, but not what squads, companies, etc are actually comprised. How did you find this document and do you know where to find any for other countries?
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I'm curious how effective this would be in combat. All I've done so far is make elcheapo "garrison" infantry that use crappy weapons. :P
Yeah, I am wondering about that as well. My battalions have size of 4500, that is less than third of what Marski made. I wonder how would look avarage NPR battalion.
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I'm trying to look up organization for say the US Army and I'm having a hard time finding unit specifics. I can see the basic org, but not what squads, companies, etc are actually comprised. How did you find this document and do you know where to find any for other countries?
I happened upon this document when searching for background information of forces on the field during Able Archer 80'. I could only find incomplete information about NATO forces.
Your best bet would be to google up combat simulators, tactical and strategical games that revolve around Cold War/Modern Conflict. You should be able to atleast find wikias or guides that reveal unit compositions and such.
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I'm trying to look up organization for say the US Army and I'm having a hard time finding unit specifics. I can see the basic org, but not what squads, companies, etc are actually comprised. How did you find this document and do you know where to find any for other countries?
There was a pre-launch forum thread on this: http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=10116.0 - the first two pages were mostly game stuff, but there's some real-world OOBs on the last two pages.
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While trying to find information no American Styker battalions I found an interesting document on the makeup of Styker Brigade Combat Teams while googling around.
https://armypubs. army. mil/epubs/DR_pubs/DR_a/pdf/web/atp3_21x21. pdf
It's got a lot of stuff about how one would actually use one in combat (so cool if you like the combat mission games and have SF2 or BS :p ) as well as diagrams detailing the brigade's make up down to the infantry platoons: see the figures and tables listed on page 8/9 of the PDF (vi/vii of the document proper).
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I'm trying to look up organization for say the US Army and I'm having a hard time finding unit specifics. I can see the basic org, but not what squads, companies, etc are actually comprised. How did you find this document and do you know where to find any for other countries?
It has changed over time, https://www. globalsecurity. org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-21-9/chap1. htm, is the Styker Brigade Combat Team basic structure, which is one of the more modern structures. (Brigade or Regiment Combat Teams/Forces are current preference for organization)
This, https://fas. org/man/dod-101/army/unit/toe/ was the organization during the turn of the century.
WWII and WWI were based upon Divisions being the smallest independent organizational unit. There were five types Infantry (the vast majority), Armoured, Mountain, Airborne, and Cavalry. They were designed around a 15,000 strong force at that level, that included non-combat roles as well, which was about half the total.
Civil War was based on the Corps, about 26,000 men in theory, most of them combat roles. Regiment was 800 soldiers led by a Colonel, 2-5 Regiments in a Brigade, led by a Brigadier General, 2-4 Brigades in a Division, led by a Major General, 2-3 Divisions in a Corps, led by senior Major General or greater, an Army would have 3 Corps in it and usually led by a General. This of course, at full strength and no leader casualties.
Pretty much comes down to how modular you want to create your organization and how specialized you want the sub-units.
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https: //usacac. army.mil/sites/default /files/misc/doctrine/CDG/cdg_resources/manuals/fm/fm7_100x4.pdf from 2007 also has good details such as:
Infantry Squad, Inf Plt
Squad Leader (N) (x1) .............................. AK-74M
Asst Sqd Ldr (N) (x1) ................................ AK-74M
Machinegunner (x1).................................PKM/PM
Asst Machinegunner (x1) .......................... AK-74M
Sniper/Marksman (x1).................................... SVD
Grenadier (x1)............................ PZF3-T/AKS-74U
Asst Grenadier (x1)...................................AK-74M
Rifleman (x2) .................................AK-74M/GP-30
Total Personnel ....................9 O-0/N-2/E-7
PRINCIPAL ITEMS OF EQUIPMENT
Equipment Total
9-mm Pistol, PM ..............................................................1
5.45-mm Assault Rifle, AK-74M.....................................6
5.45-mm Carbine, AKS-74U............................................1
7.62-mm GP MG, PKM * ................................................1
7.62-mm Sniper Rifle, SVD * ..........................................1
40-mm Grenade Launcher, GP-30....................................2
ATGL, Panzerfaust 3-T600 *...........................................1
ATDL, Armbrust..............................................................1
Flame Weapon, RPO-A Series **............................... 2
Mines (AP&AT) **/*** .................................Assorted
Binocular Laser Rangefinder * ................................... 2
GPS Receiver, Handheld ............................................ 2
Night-Vision Goggles................................................. 2
Night-Vision Goggles (AK w/GP-30) ........................ 2
Radios: Handheld, Very-Low-Power............................... 2
NOTES:
1. The infantry squad consists of at least two maneuver fire teams. The squad leader may choose to command one fire
team while the assistant squad leader commands the second. The infantry squad may be augmented by elements from the
weapons squad–in which case the infantry squad may operate with three maneuver fire teams (or anti-armor hunter-killer
teams).
2. The squad leader and assistant squad leader both have NVGs, a handheld radio, LRF, and GPS. The riflemen also
support other weapons including the machinegunner, the ATGL grenadier, the sniper/marksman, or attachments from the
weapons squad.
3. Some squads may have a second machinegunner in lieu of the rifleman (mission dependent). In this case the second
rifleman becomes the assistant machinegunner. You gain a PKM and PM for the machinegunner and an AK-47M for the
assistant machinegunner but lose the two AK-74M/GP-30s the riflemen carried previous to the substitution.
* With II night sight.
** Issued as ammunition rather than a weapon–BOI may vary.
*** Includes remotely detonated mines and side-attack (AT & anti-vehicle) mines. The mine mix is mission dependent and varies.
In addition the following manuals are also available at the site above
FM 3-21.8 The Infantry Rifle Platoon and Squad - March 2007
FM 3-21.10 The Infantry Rifle Company - July 2006
FM 3-21.11 The SBCT Infantry Rifle Company - January 2003
FM 3-21.12 The Infantry Weapons Company - July 2008
FM 3-21.20 The Infantry Battalion - December 2006
FM 3-21.21 The Stryker Brigade Combat Team Infantry Battalion - April 2003
FM 3-21.38 Pathfinder Operations - April 2006
FM 3-21.91 Tactical Employment of Antiarmor Platoons and Companies - November 2002
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Good find.
Maybe one day the community has created a template for both Warsaw Pact and NATO military formations down to a letter and using them, create a new conventional starting scenario set in the heydays of Cold War. Against a NPR and see how long you can avoid WW3.
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One of my commanders has a ground force command potential of 1.300.000. Something tells me ground combat is going to be on an entirely different scale than I'm used to.
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One of my commanders has a ground force command potential of 1.300.000. Something tells me ground combat is going to be on an entirely different scale than I'm used to.
Steve deployed 360,000 tons of Ground Forces to capture a precursor world and it wasn't a walkover (begins here (http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=10462.msg116258#msg116258)).
Off hand I think that would roughly translate to a Tank Division and a Motorized Rifle Division assuming Marski continued to build this OoB upwards.
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One of my commanders has a ground force command potential of 1.300.000. Something tells me ground combat is going to be on an entirely different scale than I'm used to.
Steve deployed 360,000 tons of Ground Forces to capture a precursor world and it wasn't a walkover (begins here (http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=10462.msg116258#msg116258)).
Off hand I think that would roughly translate to a Tank Division and a Motorized Rifle Division assuming Marski continued to build this OoB upwards.
I'll wait couple of days to see if Steve updates the game so I don't have to redo everything each patch (please Steve introduce the possibility of export/import of ground unit templates from game-to-game)
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One of my commanders has a ground force command potential of 1.300.000. Something tells me ground combat is going to be on an entirely different scale than I'm used to.
Steve deployed 360,000 tons of Ground Forces to capture a precursor world and it wasn't a walkover (begins here (http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=10462.msg116258#msg116258)).
Off hand I think that would roughly translate to a Tank Division and a Motorized Rifle Division assuming Marski continued to build this OoB upwards.
I'll wait couple of days to see if Steve updates the game so I don't have to redo everything each patch (please Steve introduce the possibility of export/import of ground unit templates from game-to-game)
If you keep going then I hope for the sake of your sanity that you start abstracting some of the higher level headquarters and support units!
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If you keep going then I hope for the sake of your sanity that you start abstracting some of the higher level headquarters and support units!
I've made some concessions in the Motorized Infantry Battalion, such as leaving out the radio and signals company, combining the various rear-echelon elements into a "HQ Supply and Maintenance Company". Same goes for the Engineer Company.
That said, I could've used the infantry logistics to create the field-kitchen and model the supply company down to a individual equipment.
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I am really glad someone else is doing Squad level formations.
I've been basing mine roughly off the US combat units its like a combination of the Army's 10th mountain group and a the us marine formations.
each squad has 8 infantryman and one support vehicle to be a HMMV or a MRAP or a Heli or whatever
1 Light vehicle (Crew Anti personal)
1 squad leader (RP only PWs)
1 Assistant squad leader (RP only PWs)
3 rifleman( normal PWs)
a machine gunner (improved PWs)
an assistan machingunner (carries ammo RP only PWs)
and an AT rocketman (LAV).
so really that's 6 INF carring PWs one improved PW one AT INF and a light vehicle all at 75 tons
There is three squads in a platoon
I have them under a platoon HQ formation
an officer (HQ 500)
the same transport
two inf with LPW to represent the medic and radio man
an FO
a rifleman to represent the Asst. Platoon leader.
Then there are three platoons in a company
The Company HQ is a L vehicle (HQ ~3000)
attached to the company is a team of mortar man
(6 light bombard)
a scout detachment
1 L-VCL with FO
3 FOS
A special weapons team
3 crew anti person weapons
3 AA inf
A small detachment of IFVs
3 Light Vehicles with Light auto cannons
then a battalion which is really just three company's and some logistic and an HQ
Then the division which will be three brigades
the biggest logistic units
the set arty pieces
the set AA
then there will be a company of mixed armored vehicles
It's all a work in progress.
It's a beast to set out and organize but honestly that's my favorite part of Aurora is the dumb extra work load you can put on yourself with logistics and now there's even more logistical spaghetti to devour in C#.
Also thanks to the ability to just drop in units to a formation from another formation the philosophy of the modern module combat unit can really be RP well in Aurora.
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https://www.battleorder.org/
I found this website pretty interesting, contains a bunch of battle orders for a bunch of countries, at least up to the platoon level.
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I am really glad someone else is doing Squad level formations.
I've been basing mine roughly off the US combat units its like a combination of the Army's 10th mountain group and a the us marine formations.
each squad has 8 infantryman and one support vehicle to be a HMMV or a MRAP or a Heli or whatever
1 Light vehicle (Crew Anti personal)
1 squad leader (RP only PWs)
1 Assistant squad leader (RP only PWs)
3 rifleman( normal PWs)
a machine gunner (improved PWs)
an assistan machingunner (carries ammo RP only PWs)
and an AT rocketman (LAV).
so really that's 6 INF carring PWs one improved PW one AT INF and a light vehicle all at 75 tons
There is three squads in a platoon
I have them under a platoon HQ formation
an officer (HQ 500)
the same transport
two inf with LPW to represent the medic and radio man
an FO
a rifleman to represent the Asst. Platoon leader.
Then there are three platoons in a company
The Company HQ is a L vehicle (HQ ~3000)
attached to the company is a team of mortar man
(6 light bombard)
a scout detachment
1 L-VCL with FO
3 FOS
A special weapons team
3 crew anti person weapons
3 AA inf
A small detachment of IFVs
3 Light Vehicles with Light auto cannons
then a battalion which is really just three company's and some logistic and an HQ
Then the division which will be three brigades
the biggest logistic units
the set arty pieces
the set AA
then there will be a company of mixed armored vehicles
It's all a work in progress.
It's a beast to set out and organize but honestly that's my favorite part of Aurora is the dumb extra work load you can put on yourself with logistics and now there's even more logistical spaghetti to devour in C#.
Also thanks to the ability to just drop in units to a formation from another formation the philosophy of the modern module combat unit can really be RP well in Aurora.
Do you know what the composition of a Division Headquarters looks like? US or Soviet, I'm fine either way. I've been googling for couple of days now and the best I've managed to find was british regiment headquarters composition.