Aurora 4x
C# Aurora => C# Bureau of Design => Topic started by: Alsadius on April 15, 2020, 11:24:26 PM
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Now that we can design ground formations, I'll dork out a bit in practice, not just in theory.
Here are the basic formations I've made so far. I've designed most of it around 10k ton sizes, because that's both a reasonable number at first glance, and it's the size of my standard transport.
I've got a couple levels of defensive units. These are basic but all-around units, trying to keep cost down while still allowing them to be functional military units against most plausible threats.
Garrison Regiment
Transport Size: 9 971 tons
Build Cost: 320.2 BP
1440x Infantry (INF, PW)
48x Machine Gunner (INF, CAP)
24x Stinger AA (INF, LAA)
24x Bazooka AV (INF, LAV)
20x Small Logistics (INF, LOG-S)
2x Hephaestus Construction Vehicle (VEH, 2xCON)
1x Thor Orbital Defence Outpost (STA, 15cm C3 Near UV Laser)
1x Zeus Regimental Command Vehicle (VEH, HQ10k+FFD)
Garrison Division
Transport Size: 9 962 tons
Build Cost: 878.8 BP
420x Infantry (INF, PW)
24x Passchendaele Artillery Installation (STA, MB)
24x Pillbox Anti-Tank Installation (STA, MAV)
24x Hawk Heavy AA Installation (STA, HAA)
12x Logistics Truck (LVH, LOG)
4x Thor Orbital Defence Outpost (STA, 15cm C3 Near UV Laser)
4x Hephaestus Construction Vehicle (VEH, 2xCON)
1x Cronus Divisional Command Vehicle (HVH, HQ50k+FFD)
This is designed to command four regiments, and add in some heavier firepower to support them. Infantry are mostly to guard the heavies if it gets attacked, and to bulk it out at a low cost. It's actually kind of shocking how much of the cost of these is the orbital defence weapons - the four Thors are almost half the cost of the formation(382.7 BP), and they don't even have the top-tier armour for static installations. I would probably prefer to add some smaller weapons for anti-missile work, but STO weapons are sufficiently expensive to design that I only have one in service so far.
I also might add a bit more in the way of construction vehicles. I don't have any division formations actually built yet, but I have a regiment that's been entrenching for a few years, and at this rate it won't hit max until like 20 years in. (The infantry are at 4.28 fortification level, and nothing else is above base). The division won't be helping much in practice either, since it's light on them too.
These, conversely, are offensive units:
Tank Regiment
Transport Size: 9 848 tons
Build Cost: 799.8 BP
108x Ares III Main Battle Tank (VEH, MAV+CAP)
24x Hera Support Tank (VEH, HAA+MAC)
1x Zeus Regimental Command Vehicle(VEH, HQ10k+FFD)
Tank Division
Transport Size: 9 910 tons
Build Cost: 514.1 BP
48x Normandy Medium Artillery (LVH, MB)
12x Watchman Heavy AA (VEH, 2xHAA)
10x Hephaestus Construction Vehicle (VEH, 2xCON)
36x Logistics Truck (LVH, LOG)
1x Cronus Divisional Command Vehicle (HVH, HQ50k+FFD)
The lack of organic supply in the regiments means I need more at the division (14,256 total supply for the formation, and I can supply 18k here), and by the same token some ability to dig in could be helpful. Likewise, artillery should be behind the front line, and an offensive unit shouldn't need STO coverage. I added a bit of AA for redundancy, but TBH the 96 guns in the rest of the division is probably more than enough against any plausible division-sized garrison. If I keep this division design, I should look at re-designing the Hera a bit, I think - drop the HAA to LAA, and up the number from 24 to 36. Ah well, this is why we iterate.
Finally, I'll be equipping my cruisers with an anti-boarding force:
Marine Company
Transport Size: 200 tons
Build Cost: 10.7 BP
38x Marines (INF, PW, Boarding trained)
1x Battalion Command Post (INF, HQ2k)
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Overall, the thing that makes this feel very different from my pre-launch theorycrafting is that units need to be researched. I don't have all the various bells and whistles, I don't have the ability to tailor elements perfectly (unless I'm willing to waste a ton of RP on doing so), so I need to make things fit. It's a different dynamic, especially in the early game when tech is advancing really fast. But I'm enjoying it, for sure.
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There is a lot to play with...
I am designing Police with Police Precincts and Headquarters. Of course some special units, anti-terrorism and so on.
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Maybe I'm blind but it would be really nice if there was a way to save ground unit templates. I've created the same units 6 times in as many days :P
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Here are some designs from my 1. 51 game I decided to get attached to. Hope this can give someone inspiration or a starting point!
Dwarven doctrine is less is more.
Planning on putting at least one of these STO defensive regiments on any major colony.
Planetary Defense Regiment
Transport Size: 5 130 tons
Build Cost: 697. 7 BP
2x Dwarven Regimental HQ
6x Brickswinger Orbital Defense Battery
12x Brickswinger Missile Defense Battery
Main fighting and accessory forces.
Infantry Regiment
Transport Size: 5 972 tons
Build Cost: 195. 2 BP
300x Regular Guard
240x Hearthguard Infantry
48x Hearthguard Smasher
60x Hearthguard Thunderer
4x Lodestone Logistical Unit
2x Dwarven Engineer's Legion
2x Dwarven Mobile Brigade HQ
2x Dwarven Signal Squadron
Armored Regiment
Transport Size: 5 916 tons
Build Cost: 457. 9 BP
2x Dwarven Mobile Brigade HQ
12x Lodestone Logistical Unit
48x Ironcrusher
12x Ironspitter
10x Steelspitter
Divisional Assets
Transport Size: 5 280 tons
Build Cost: 240 BP
2x Dwarven Divisional HQ
20x Lodestone Logistical Unit
4x Shard Thrower
4x Dwarven Engineer's Legion
16x Ironbelcher
4x Steelbelcher
Marine Battalion
Transport Size: 880 tons
Build Cost: 87. 7 BP
1x Marine Battalion HQ
120x Mountainsbane Marine
3x Mountainsbounty Light Logistic Unit
10x Mountainsbane Marine Pounder
Foregin Expedition Legion
Transport Size: 5 848 tons
Build Cost: 440. 7 BP
24x Dwarven Expeditionary Company
1x Dwarven Regimental HQ
2x Dwarven Signal Squadron
40x Regular Guard
12x Hearthguard Infantry
2x Hearthguard Smasher
2x Hearthguard Thunderer
1x Lodestone Logistical Unit
Geological Society Legion
Transport Size: 5 430 tons
Build Cost: 214. 7 BP
1x Dwarven Regimental HQ
12x Stonesplitter Mark II
2x Lodestone Logistical Unit
40x Regular Guard
12x Hearthguard Infantry
2x Hearthguard Smasher
2x Hearthguard Thunderer
Some details on select unit designs.
Hearthguard Infantry - PWI - Armor 9 - HP 6
Hearthguard Smasher - LAV - Armor 9 - HP 6
Hearthguard Thunderer - CAP - Armor 9 - HP 6
Ironbelcher - 2xMB - Armor 12 - HP 24
Ironcrusher - MAV , CAP - Armor 24 - HP 24
Ironspitter - MAC, CAP - Armor 24 - HP 24
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I've noticed that you guys are making your formations MUUUUUUUCH larger than mine. I have a base HQ size of 1250, then a 5k, 10k, 50k, etc.
Should I scrap the 1250 company sized HQ, and go for a 5k company size?
Boy, do I wish HQ sizes were based on number of people, not tonnage.
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Well my companies have size 1000, so they are smaller than yours. As was discussed in different thread, Steve deployed 360000 tons of ground forces to conquer Precursor outpost:
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=10462.msg116258#msg116258
So we may very well design our forces as too small.
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FWIW, I've only designed up to divisions, because it's only 2036 in my game. I expect to have an army command above that at ~300k tons, and to use multiple armies for some campaigns. But for now, the goal is modular formations that can be assembled in the future into larger groups, not to jump straight to organizing forces a hundred times bigger than my navy's carrying capacity.
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I personally settled that a minimum HQ size is 5k. Do not want to micro that much but I kind of feel that you need quite large armies especially considering the speed of at which you can fill 5k personal weapons infantry.
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This thread has confirmed that my size 50 Infantry Platoons are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyy too small.
Aye.
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I've been doing size 1000 formations so far, but that's because I've only designed garrison units. I imagine I'll have to upscale once I get to designing a proper army. In one of my test games I had a ground force commander who could effectively command 1.300.000 units. No need to let that go to waste :)
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My smallest ground formation is a battalion, each massing around 3250 tons. It's kinda light, but sorta numerically in line with modern formations. I skipped on making the individual companies though, as I might lose my mind with the sheer number of formations that would entail.
The most common formation would be the Infantry Battalion, designed to stand its ground against enemy assaults with its generous complement of AT and CAP units, plus some FFD, LB and LAA for fire support. All units use the infantry base unit type.
Infantry Battalion
Transport Size: 3,217 tons
Build Cost: 64.7 BP
300x Rifleman
36x MG-7 Machinegun Section
36x AT-24 Anti Tank Section
12x AA-13 MANPAD Section
12x 81mm Mortar Section
3x Scout Section
3x Battalion HQ
Next up would be the Mechanized Infantry battalions, which are designed as a versatile unit capable of holding ground against attacks as well as go on the offensive alongside the Armored Battalions. The unit comes equipped with infantry fighting vehicles (Light Vehicle, LAC) and mobile FFD, LB, MAV and LAA units on light vehicle chassis.
Mechanized Infantry Battalion
Transport Size: 3,231 tons
Build Cost: 108.5 BP
150x Rifleman
30x AT-24 Anti Tank Section
30x IFV-6 Centaur Infantry Fighting Vehicle
6x IFV-6T ATGM Carrier
6x IFV-6M 81mm Self-Propelled Mortar
6x IFV-6A Mobile SAM Launcher
3x Scout Section (Mounted)
2x Battalion HQ (Mobile)
The main offensive firepower lies with the Armored Battalions, equipped with the heaviest (so far, about 8 years in my conventional start game) armor available. 36 main battle tanks (Medium Vehicle, MAV + CAP) form the core of the formation's firepower, and are supported by FFD, MAV, LB, and LAA units on light vehicle chassis.
Armored Battalion
Transport Size: 3,181 tons
Build Cost: 222.4 BP
36x T-110 Cataphract Main Battle Tank
6x IFV-6T ATGM Carrier
6x IFV-6A Mobile SAM Launcher
6x IFV-6M 81mm Self-Propelled Mortar
3x Scout Section (Mounted)
3x Battalion HQ (Mobile)
Supporting these formations from the rear are the Field Artillery Battalions, designed to support the frontline combatants with artillery fire. This formation also includes a battery of MAA units intended to protect friendly units from enemy aircraft. The MB and MAA units are of the static base type.
Field Artillery Battalion
Transport Size: 3,237 tons
Build Cost: 102 BP
24x AS-40 155mm Howitzer
8x SA-40 SAM Launcher
24x Logistics Vehicle
3x Battalion HQ (Mobile)
Finally, we have the Logistics Battalions that supply and maintain these ground forces. I decided on using separate battalions (rather than attaching to HQ) for convenience; I'll just build a few of these units, ship them out, and insert them into regiments needing supply. It also has a few extra HQs in case of combat losses.
Logistics Battalion
Transport Size: 3,241 tons
Build Cost: 139.4 BP
50x Logistics Vehicle
5x Battalion HQ (Mobile)
These battalions are further organized into Regiments, which mass around 20,000 tons and include 10 construction vehicles for fortification purposes. Each regiment has at least 1 Field Artillery Battalion and 1 Logistics Battalion; other units vary depending on the type of regiment. Common Regiment types are Infantry (3x Infantry Battalion), Mechanized Infantry (2x Mechanized Infantry, 1x Armored Battalion), and Armored (3x Armored Battalion) Regiments.
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I've been using -
Companies of 1000 ~140 soldiers with HQ, light logistics and some additional support weapons
Batallion of 5000 consisting of 4 Companies and 1000 worth of support weapons/HQ/logistics in the batallion unit itself
Brigade of 20000 consisting of 3 Batallions and 5000 worth of heavy support/logistics/ HQ staff x2 in the Brigade unit.
Didn't go up as far as a Division yet, though it might end up as 3 Brigades with a smaller Divisional support unit, like 22k or so.
I also made a Marine Rangers force, powered Armor boarding capable worth 100.. Pretty much just ~10 marines, a support "MG" gunner and a HQ suit for boarding drop purposes.
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Since we're sharing, I'll show mine too.
Mechanised Infantry Battalion
Transport Size: 8,330 tons
Build Cost: 241.4 BP
216x Infantry, Line
66x Infantry, MG Section
64x Wolverine IFV
48x Infantry, Storm Troops
40x Power Armour Infantry
4x Rhino IFV
48x Infantry, LAW-6 AT Launcher
16x Infantry, Javelin AA Missile
10x Infantry, Forward Observer
152x Supply Unit Small
3x Infantry Battalion HQ
Every battalion is intended to be supported by an artillery company:
Mechanised Artillery Company
Transport Size: 1,298 tons
Build Cost: 47.7 BP
16x M-156 Crawfish
3x GCA-23-2
27x Supply Unit Small
1x Artillery Company HQ
3 battalions and 1 tank battalion (which I haven't designed yet) will make a brigade, and we'll work up from there.
I haven't field tested this yet, since I've only just encountered my first NPR and had to put something together quick because I had no armed forces at all ;D, so I have no idea how it's going to fare. But as far as I understand the ground combat mechanics, the IFVs should soak up quite a lot of small arms fire, so this sort of combined arms force should work fairly well against infantry. The IFVs have light autocannons, which were intended to make them useful against both infantry and vehicles, but now that I'm looking at the stats, I may have to swap them for heavy autocannons. I can also see that I put way more organic supply in these units than others seem to do, so we'll see how that works.
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Across six games, the only ground units I've used so far -- as opposed to built -- have been a few hundred:
Militia Company
1 HQ-INF (rating 1000 tons)
330 PW-INF
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Infantry Battalion
Transport Size: 4,875 tons
Build Cost: 99 BP
150x Infantry
75x Assault Infantry
50x Light Mortar
50x Anti-Air
50x Anti-Tank
50x SAW
5x Quartermaster Unit
1x Infantry Battalion HQ
Light Cavalry
Transport Size: 4,387 tons
Build Cost: 178.5 BP
100x M-1 Tank
10x M-2 Artillery
10x M-3 Tank
10x M-4 Anti-Air
5x Cavalry Quartermaster
10x Anti-personnel Tank
1x Light Cavalry HQ
Garrison Unit
Transport Size: 2,505 tons
Build Cost: 51.6 BP
500x Garrison
10x Quartermaster Unit
10x SAW
10x Anti-Air
10x Anti-Tank
1x Infantry Battalion HQ
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A quick request. For unit types where the game-mechanical structure of the underlying elements isn't clear, could people perhaps add some notes about what's what? It doesn't need to be right next to the unit like i did it, but some kind of legend would be nice. I can't really understand a force structure that just says "Tank", unfortunately.
(I'll throw a note over in Suggestions for some ideas to help make this easier for us)
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I went through a few iterations and ended up with the following force structure:
Battalion HQ - 4000 cap
Regimental HQ - 20k cap
Division HQ - 100k cap
Army HQ - 400k cap
My 'actual' combat units are battalions that come with their own HQ. The divisions are triangular and each regiment contains 3 infantry battalions, 3 artillery battalions, and a support company (the battalions are usually a little under the 4k HQ cap). Construction battalions are provided at division level.
I started out building battalions out of individual companies, and had brigades in between my regiments and divisions, but things evolved quickly. 1k does make a reasonable company size if you want to go that far, and 50k isn't too bad for brigades.
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It really depends on what do you have in mind. I generally would recommend starting from the grounds up.
Generally speaking though:
Army - size depending on how many corps you need
Corps - different corps form the army. Each Corp usually has a purpose and the size depends on the below:
Division - Made up of more than 10,000 troops (including support personnel)
Brigade - Made up of about 3,000 troops, each brigade will serve a specific purpose and will be completely autonomous, containing all the support and command personnel needed.
Within each brigade, troops are further broken down into smaller groups:
Battalion - up to 1,000 soldiers
Company - approximately 100 soldiers
Platoon - up to 50 soldiers (this is the smallest unit lead by a commissioned officer)
Furthermore, if you really want to go deeper you could break down the platoon as per following:
Section or squad - Approximately eight soldiers
Fire Team - four soldiers
Please note you don't individually design the Section and the Fire Teams, but you just draw them so that they reflect your Platoon whatever level you want to start from.
For instance, as said at the beginning you scale up. So in my above comments, you start from the Platoons: meaning you draft your teams to make your Platoons and then you only add commands for the upper levels.
To be honest I think the best is to start with Battalions but I have seen many people here starting from the brigade up.
The reason why I start with the Battalions is that it's avoiding me to have lots of small groups for Xeno archaeology, geology teams, boarding parties etc. I design them within the Army already and when it's needed I just detach them.
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As an experiment, I fired up a new game and looked at the ground command stat for my commanders. It seems that even among the lowest ranking commanders it is not unusual to see ground command potential of 3.000 or 4.000. I have a few as low as 1.250, but most are a good deal beyond that. I think at the start that I am going to use that as a guideline for designing my formations. The lowest ranking commanders could easily command formations of 3.000 and more, so I think that will be the most basic units with higher organizational elements being in the range of 20.000 to 40.000 (or thereabouts).
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As an experiment, I fired up a new game and looked at the ground command stat for my commanders. It seems that even among the lowest ranking commanders it is not unusual to see ground command potential of 3.000 or 4.000. I have a few as low as 1.250, but most are a good deal beyond that. I think at the start that I am going to use that as a guideline for designing my formations. The lowest ranking commanders could easily command formations of 3.000 and more, so I think that will be the most basic units with higher organizational elements being in the range of 20.000 to 40.000 (or thereabouts).
That is good, just remember as I highlighted that you will require ground units for more than war. We talking Police, Outpost sweeps, geosurvey, etc
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As an experiment, I fired up a new game and looked at the ground command stat for my commanders. It seems that even among the lowest ranking commanders it is not unusual to see ground command potential of 3.000 or 4.000. I have a few as low as 1.250, but most are a good deal beyond that. I think at the start that I am going to use that as a guideline for designing my formations. The lowest ranking commanders could easily command formations of 3.000 and more, so I think that will be the most basic units with higher organizational elements being in the range of 20.000 to 40.000 (or thereabouts).
That is good, just remember as I highlighted that you will require ground units for more than war. We talking Police, Outpost sweeps, geosurvey, etc
Wait, you're saying I can't use brigades of heavy tanks to police my people?
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As an experiment, I fired up a new game and looked at the ground command stat for my commanders. It seems that even among the lowest ranking commanders it is not unusual to see ground command potential of 3.000 or 4.000. I have a few as low as 1.250, but most are a good deal beyond that. I think at the start that I am going to use that as a guideline for designing my formations. The lowest ranking commanders could easily command formations of 3.000 and more, so I think that will be the most basic units with higher organizational elements being in the range of 20.000 to 40.000 (or thereabouts).
That is good, just remember as I highlighted that you will require ground units for more than war. We talking Police, Outpost sweeps, geosurvey, etc
Wait, you're saying I can't use brigades of heavy tanks to police my people?
Just make sure you include a single Small Laser for uh. "less lethal policing" .
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It really depends on what do you have in mind. I generally would recommend starting from the grounds up.
Generally speaking though:
Army - size depending on how many corps you need
Corps - different corps form the army. Each Corp usually has a purpose and the size depends on the below:
Division - Made up of more than 10,000 troops (including support personnel)
Brigade - Made up of about 3,000 troops, each brigade will serve a specific purpose and will be completely autonomous, containing all the support and command personnel needed.
Within each brigade, troops are further broken down into smaller groups:
Battalion - up to 1,000 soldiers
Company - approximately 100 soldiers
Platoon - up to 50 soldiers (this is the smallest unit lead by a commissioned officer)
Furthermore, if you really want to go deeper you could break down the platoon as per following:
Section or squad - Approximately eight soldiers
Fire Team - four soldiers
Please note you don't individually design the Section and the Fire Teams, but you just draw them so that they reflect your Platoon whatever level you want to start from.
For instance, as said at the beginning you scale up. So in my above comments, you start from the Platoons: meaning you draft your teams to make your Platoons and then you only add commands for the upper levels.
To be honest I think the best is to start with Battalions but I have seen many people here starting from the brigade up.
The reason why I start with the Battalions is that it's avoiding me to have lots of small groups for Xeno archaeology, geology teams, boarding parties etc. I design them within the Army already and when it's needed I just detach them.
Just remember the HQ, supply, and transport is by weight, not soldiers. . .
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So currently this is what I have:
Total Formations: 47
Total Transport Size: 299 234 tons
Total Cost: 8 721 BP
13 658x Infantry
1 308x Light Static AP
1 140x Light Static M-BOMB
504x Light Static L-BOMB
492x Light Static L-AA
492x Light Static L-AT
312x Light Static M-AT
300x Light Static M-AA
197x Logistics Vehicle 500
132x Anti Air Team
110x Anti Tank Team
89x MedVeh Light Construction
52x Resupply Infantry
26x Light Static HQ 10000
26x Infantry HQ
6x Med Static HQ 50000
1x MedVeh MedHQ 1000000
L and M are for light and medium, the Construction vehicles are double construction. The things like Infantry and Anti air team are the ones generated when a civ colony is made, I added some of those Civilian garrison units into my army.
To get my 1 million HQ I kinda cheated by using my last 134 instant research points into researching the whole 80k cost (which was my entire pool of free research hehehe).
(https://i.imgur.com/DpqejGw.png)
That's just earth I have about 50k ton worth of units on two other planets.
(https://i.imgur.com/SeFLcoC.png)
These construction brigades are supposed to be my real ones and not ones with 1mil HQ's in them, that's a special one just for Earth.
What do you guys think? Is this organized properly / decent number of GU's for roughly 700million pop on earth with 50million on the other two planets?
Hmmmm
The way the formations are actually set up I feel is wrong. Looking over the commander stats it looks like I should be separating my bombs and AA and logistics from the rest. Maybe also split up larger formations of formations by Front line attacks and defenders afterwards.
Anyone have any idea of how GU's affect policing and what stats are important for that? How many tons of GU's do you like to have?
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Anyone have any idea of how GU's affect policing and what stats are important for that? How many tons of GU's do you like to have?
In VB Aurora it was defense strength, but in C# Aurora changing the armour rating does not seem to have any effect.
The important stat (for the commander) is Occupation. So far a decent amount of ground troops has been quite successful at supressing unrest, such that I've never built troops strictly for reducing unrest -- my normal army does it automatically as a bonus effect.
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So currently this is what I have:
Total Formations: 47
Total Transport Size: 299 234 tons
Total Cost: 8 721 BP
13 658x Infantry
1 308x Light Static AP
1 140x Light Static M-BOMB
504x Light Static L-BOMB
492x Light Static L-AA
492x Light Static L-AT
312x Light Static M-AT
300x Light Static M-AA
197x Logistics Vehicle 500
132x Anti Air Team
110x Anti Tank Team
89x MedVeh Light Construction
52x Resupply Infantry
26x Light Static HQ 10000
26x Infantry HQ
6x Med Static HQ 50000
1x MedVeh MedHQ 1000000
L and M are for light and medium, the Construction vehicles are double construction. The things like Infantry and Anti air team are the ones generated when a civ colony is made, I added some of those Civilian garrison units into my army.
To get my 1 million HQ I kinda cheated by using my last 134 instant research points into researching the whole 80k cost (which was my entire pool of free research hehehe).
(https://i.imgur.com/DpqejGw.png)
That's just earth I have about 50k ton worth of units on two other planets.
(https://i.imgur.com/SeFLcoC.png)
These construction brigades are supposed to be my real ones and not ones with 1mil HQ's in them, that's a special one just for Earth.
What do you guys think? Is this organized properly / decent number of GU's for roughly 700million pop on earth with 50million on the other two planets?
Hmmmm
The way the formations are actually set up I feel is wrong. Looking over the commander stats it looks like I should be separating my bombs and AA and logistics from the rest. Maybe also split up larger formations of formations by Front line attacks and defenders afterwards.
Anyone have any idea of how GU's affect policing and what stats are important for that? How many tons of GU's do you like to have?
Of course, that is why I specifically told you chose the UOM and then you add just Admin Commands.
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The way the formations are actually set up I feel is wrong. Looking over the commander stats it looks like I should be separating my bombs and AA and logistics from the rest. Maybe also split up larger formations of formations by Front line attacks and defenders afterwards.
Yes, right now your bombardment units are dead weight. They need to be explicitly moved to the 'support' (or 'rear echelon', in some cases) position and explicitly assigned to support a unit in the front-line position. See http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=10849.msg124794#msg124794 for some research I did into how they work, it's not necessarily intuitive.
No clue how position impacts your AA units, FWIW.
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No clue how position impacts your AA units, FWIW.
Per the dev diaries:
- LAA shoots fighters that are attacking their own formation.
- MAA shoots fighters that are attacking their own formation, or a formation directly subordinate to their own formation.
- HAA shoots fighters that are attacking any allied formation.
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg109914#msg109914
Let's look at a simple force structure, with multiple brigades(front-line) per division(support), and multiple divisions per corps (rear echelon).
- LAA in a brigade will attack fighters that are attacking that brigade. Ditto division or corps. They will not attack anywhere else.
- MAA in a brigade will attack fighters that are attacking that brigade. MAA in a division will attack fighters that are attacking the division itself, or any brigade subordinate to that division. MAA in a corps will attack fighters that are attacking the corps itself, or any division subordinate to that corps, but not brigades that are indirectly subordinate to the corps.
- HAA will attack any fighters that attack any unit anywhere in the force structure. They will prioritize their own unit and subordinates, but are not limited to them.
So basically, use LAA in units that expect air attack(generally brigades), MAA in the parents of units expecting air attack (generally divisions), and HAA anywhere you like. HAA at the corps level is good if you want to keep it safe. However, HAA at the brigade/division level is quite practical too, since every unit can cover every other unit. Because of the large size and cost of HAA, I probably wouldn't put them on the front lines until you're up to SHV/UHV sized units, because otherwise you're just building glass cannons, but you can if you like.
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No clue how position impacts your AA units, FWIW.
Per the dev diaries:
- LAA shoots fighters that are attacking their own formation.
- MAA shoots fighters that are attacking their own formation, or a formation directly subordinate to their own formation.
- HAA shoots fighters that are attacking any allied formation.
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg109914#msg109914
Let's look at a simple force structure, with multiple brigades(front-line) per division(support), and multiple divisions per corps (rear echelon).
- LAA in a brigade will attack fighters that are attacking that brigade. Ditto division or corps. They will not attack anywhere else.
- MAA in a brigade will attack fighters that are attacking that brigade. MAA in a division will attack fighters that are attacking the division itself, or any brigade subordinate to that division. MAA in a corps will attack fighters that are attacking the corps itself, or any division subordinate to that corps, but not brigades that are indirectly subordinate to the corps.
- HAA will attack any fighters that attack any unit anywhere in the force structure. They will prioritize their own unit and subordinates, but are not limited to them.
So basically, use LAA in units that expect air attack(generally brigades), MAA in the parents of units expecting air attack (generally divisions), and HAA anywhere you like. HAA at the corps level is good if you want to keep it safe. However, HAA at the brigade/division level is quite practical too, since every unit can cover every other unit. Because of the large size and cost of HAA, I probably wouldn't put them on the front lines until you're up to SHV/UHV sized units, because otherwise you're just building glass cannons, but you can if you like.
I just want to say I think what you said for AA applies to bombardment aswell. So generally you want light stuff on the front line and medium in support with heavy at the very back. Only AA and bombardment have these special rules.
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I just want to say I think what you said for AA applies to bombardment aswell. So generally you want light stuff on the front line and medium in support with heavy at the very back. Only AA and bombardment have these special rules.
I think it's a bit different for bombardment. My understanding is:
- LB in support can hit enemy front-lines. LB in rear-echelon is useless.
- MB in support can hit enemy front-line or support. MB in rear echelon can hit enemy front lines.
- MBL and HB in support can hit any enemy formation. MBL and HB in rear echelon can hit enemy front lines or support.
However, I am much less confident of my understanding there. Here's the original post: http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg109786#msg109786
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I just want to say I think what you said for AA applies to bombardment aswell. So generally you want light stuff on the front line and medium in support with heavy at the very back. Only AA and bombardment have these special rules.
This is inaccurate - bombardment units work differently! Light bombardment does nothing in the front line AFAIK. Bombardment may work similarly to AA in terms of automatically supporting certain formations, but I can't back that up in the docs (AFAIK they do nothing unless you explicitly create a support relationship).
Alsadius - do you know if AA is impacted by position (front-line attack/defense vs. support vs. rear-echelon) at all?
FWIW, it would be really nice if organic light bombardment units inside a front-line unit automatically provided support (i.e. automatically attacked the enemy front-line unit targeted by the formation they're a member of).
Edit: Basically what Alsadius said.
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I just want to say I think what you said for AA applies to bombardment aswell. So generally you want light stuff on the front line and medium in support with heavy at the very back. Only AA and bombardment have these special rules.
I think it's a bit different for bombardment. My understanding is:
- LB in support can hit enemy front-lines. LB in rear-echelon is useless.
- MB in support can hit enemy front-line or support. MB in rear echelon can hit enemy front lines.
- MBL and HB in support can hit any enemy formation. MBL and HB in rear echelon can hit enemy front lines or support.
However, I am much less confident of my understanding there. Here's the original post: http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg109786#msg109786
AFAIK MB doesn't do anything from rear echelon; it can hit enemy front-line and support units from your support lines. HB can hit any enemy formation from your support or rear-echelon lines. LB can only hit enemy front-line units and only from your support lines. There's no reason to put HB in support rather than rear-echelon unless you want them to soak fire taken by your other support units. HB in rear-echelon is untouchable unless the enemy also has HB, or if they break through.
To break this down into clean bullet points:
- LB must be in Support, targets enemy Front-Line
- MB must be in Support, targets enemy Front-Line or Support
- HB must be in Support or Rear Echelon, targets enemy Front-Line, Support, or Rear-Echelon
There's some nuace regarding combat phases and targeting between LB and MB/HB, but it's not super relevant in terms of how you place your units as far as I can tell.
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Size: I went with ease of use here. My standard freighter carries 25,000 tons, so refitting it to a commercial troop transport gives 25,000 tons of troop capacity, and so I want my formations to fit evenly in that size, particularly any garrison forces (which will frequently be dropped off by commercial transports). However, 25,000 tons is a bit big, particularly for more expensive stuff like tanks or STO weapons, so 5,000 makes a good compromise - big enough to not be micromanagement heavy, small enough to be affordable, and 5 fit in a 25,000 ton transport.
In my current, and so far only significant, game, I have the following formations:
Garrison Regiment (5000 tons)
Regimental HQ (Static-HQ5000, AR 3)
575 Infantry (Inf-PW, AR 1)
58 Anti-Tank (Inf-LAV, AR 1)
50 Supply Cache (Inf-LOG, AR 1)
11 Anti-Tank Gun (Static-HAV, AR 1)
After giving it some thought I decided not to go with CAP infantry; just the normal personal weapons can fill the same role in enough quantity, and I want to bulk the formations out with those anyways. I may be overdoing it on supplies but I haven't had much practical combat experience yet, so better safe than sorry.
Orbital Defense Regiment (4977 tons)
Regimental HQ (Static-HQ5000, AR 3)
20 Orbital Laser Emplacements (Static-10cm Laser, AR 1)
Just something I threw together to provide basic anti-missile and anti-orbital ship defense. Eventually I plan to replace some of the 10cm lasers with a few larger ones for long range capability, but it seems a waste when I get a new level of FC tech every few years.
And finally:
Garrison Brigade HQ (4,999 tons)
Brigade HQ (Static-HQ25000, AR 3)
9 Construction Truck (Vehicle-CONx2, AR 1)
30 Supply Cache (Inf-LOG, AR 1)
85 Mortar Troopers (Inf-LB, AR 1)
The idea being for it to sit on the support position to avoid being attacked, while providing bombardment support and mortar fire.
My original plan was that a Planetary Defense Brigade would be a Brigade HQ, 3 Garrison regiments, and 1 Orbital defense regiment. However, I'm reconsidering that based on two discoveries:
1) The orbital defense regiment is by far the most expensive part, costing as much as ten garrison regiments. Ideally I think I should have fewer STO weapons per equal weight of ground units, either by mixing in some other unit type (like long range bombardment) into their formations or combining them with the HQ formation.
2) The ability to set field position by subordinate units. If I end up with 50 regiments in a battle, I might want to be able to set their field positions quickly - which might work better designing all subordinate formations of a brigade for the same field position, so I don't have to switch them individually.
So my rough plan for next game: Brigade HQ will replace the light bombardment weapons with a mix of heavy bombardment and STO, and be designed for rear echelon instead of support. Each one will command 4 garrison regiments instead of a mix of infantry and STO regiments. If I end up fielding 4 brigades together, they'll get a division command formation with a mix of more unit types (like other bombardment weapons and tanks).
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Garrison Regiment (5000 tons)
Regimental HQ (Static-HQ5000, AR 3)
575 Infantry (Inf-PW, AR 1)
58 Anti-Tank (Inf-LAV, AR 1)
50 Supply Cache (Inf-LOG, AR 1)
11 Anti-Tank Gun (Static-HAV, AR 1)
That's an incredible amount of support, 5 would be a better number. Look at the amount of GSP your unit requires and build to that with some level of redundancy.
Garrison Brigade HQ (4,999 tons)
Brigade HQ (Static-HQ25000, AR 3)
9 Construction Truck (Vehicle-CONx2, AR 1)
30 Supply Cache (Inf-LOG, AR 1)
85 Mortar Troopers (Inf-LB, AR 1)
This is a really efficient unit for the support position! Just be aware that AFAIK you will only be able to provide artillery support to a single unit at a time. Splitting the mortars out into a separate formation (or one for every infantry regiment) and putting the rest in rear echelon would potentially improve efficiency.
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Garrison Brigade HQ (4,999 tons)
Brigade HQ (Static-HQ25000, AR 3)
9 Construction Truck (Vehicle-CONx2, AR 1)
30 Supply Cache (Inf-LOG, AR 1)
85 Mortar Troopers (Inf-LB, AR 1)
This is a really efficient unit for the support position! Just be aware that AFAIK you will only be able to provide artillery support to a single unit at a time. Splitting the mortars out into a separate formation (or one for every infantry regiment) and putting the rest in rear echelon would potentially improve efficiency.
Is that an issue? Most formations will be big enough that 85 LB will still be doing damage. That's not going to be overkill, unless you've already basically won. Nuke down one formation a bit in a tick, and have a better chance of breakthroughs against it. Or just avoid the headaches of OOB administration, and keep it simple.
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Garrison Regiment (5000 tons)
Regimental HQ (Static-HQ5000, AR 3)
575 Infantry (Inf-PW, AR 1)
58 Anti-Tank (Inf-LAV, AR 1)
50 Supply Cache (Inf-LOG, AR 1)
11 Anti-Tank Gun (Static-HAV, AR 1)
That's an incredible amount of support, 5 would be a better number. Look at the amount of GSP your unit requires and build to that with some level of redundancy.
As a correction, the Supply Caches are actually Inf-LOG-S (I like the smaller logistics on infantry since it makes them more resilient to damage at no extra cost). So it's actually only a fifth the supplies it looks like from my post.
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As for bombardment, these: http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=9792.msg121856#msg121856, http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=10097.msg122483#msg122483, might interest you.
I'm pretty sure Light Bombardment when used inside of a front line formation, not supporting it, can choose targets in either the enemy front line or the enemy's support formations. Medium Bombardment inside the front line can target units in the front line, support or rear echelon positions. This has obvious drawbacks, as in the front line these units are far more exposed, but that is my understanding of how these weapons actually work.
Medium AA is the weird one, in that it only functions as Light AA on steroids unless it is the direct parent of another formation, so in a level immediately higher than the formations it should be supporting.
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I don't understand the bombardment rules very well but they come from this (http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg109786#msg109786) post (I haven't followed the discussions in other threads so maybe there is clarification elsewhere).
Support and Rear Echelon formations that contain formation elements with bombardment weapons can be assigned to support front line formations that are part of the same organisation. Formations in a support position with light bombardment weapons will fire with the front line formations (see next paragraph). Formations in a support position with medium/heavy bombardment weapons or formations in a rear echelon position with heavy bombardment weapons will fire in a subsequent phase - see below.
Once a front line formation (or a light bombardment element in the Support position) has been matched against a hostile formation, each friendly individual unit (a soldier or vehicle) in that formation engages a random element in the hostile formation, with the randomisation based on the relative size of the hostile formation elements.
(snip)
Once all front line attacks have been concluded, each unit in each element providing supporting bombardment will engage either the hostile formation being targeted by the friendly formation they are supporting, or one of the hostile formation's own supporting elements (counter-battery fire).
(snip)
Supporting medium artillery will choose between hostile forces in Front-Line or Support field positions (and will ignore any elements in Rear Echelon field position for purposes of relative size), while heavy artillery can select targets in any field position.
As far as I can see they don't address bombardment weapons being placed in front line defence or front line attack. My assumption (based on how things are written) is that bombardment weapons in a front line defence or front line attack position would function as a non-bombardment weapons and just fire as normal, although it is possible they don't fire at all, or maybe they fire twice (like AA can).
Light bombardment weapons resolve their attacks along with the unit they are supporting in the 'firing phase', whereas medium bombardment and heavy bombardment have a separate phase where they do bombardment firing. Therefore it seems to me that light bombardment weapons can fire at units in the support position but only if the unit they are supporting is targeting a unit in the support position (which is possible for a unit set as front line attack but not for a unit set as front line defence).
One other thing to note after reading carefully, is that in the 'bombardment phase' bombardment weapons can't target any unit, only the
front line units their supported formation attacked or units supporting that formation.
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I too am a bit confused about actual combat.
Personally for me at game starts I have been making Med Veh with Med armor with MAC and MAT as my front line units (usually around size 5000) and then some MBOMB and MAA in a parent support unit. The parent also has HQ space for itself the 1 unit of med veh under it and I like to open up about 5k - 10k extra space for future, making my support units usually size 5000 with 20000 HQ space. Later on I will make some INF / static units to fit in as front line defense units.
I've been making my units usually size 1250 to 5000. This is due to a mix of transport sizes (I usually put 1 large troop module on each cargo ship so that's 5000tons of transport and ground force commander unit size ratings).
From the combat rules I decided that each parent support unit (BOMB and AA) will have 1 attack unit (Usually heaviest Vehicles I can make, which it will directly support) and then some defense units to take hits and stuff (generally INF and static, a mix of things including LBOMB and LAA but not heavier versions of BOMB or AA). These can also support your attackers with their Lbomb.
For logistics I do a mix of INF logistics on the unit level and putting in logistic trucks on the support units.
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Is there any way we can change the Rank Structure in regards to HQ level to Rank? Currently it goes: 5, 12.5, 25, 50, 500, 1000 Any way we can change and/or add values? I know we can add/change ranks...
For "sweet spot" small units should aim for 2009 tonnage, that is one of the most efficient use of HQ tonnage per Command Tonnage, everything smaller than 2009 is 10 tons, at 2010 it goes to 10.1 and increases .1 every 20 tons thereafter. Another "sweet spot" is using Light Vehicles for LOG units, harder to hit than Static or Inf LOG units. (though LOG-S on Inf is a huge tonnage saver)
Does anyone know if a formation set to Support can Support two down, and likewise Rear Echelon?
So it would look something like this:
HB/HAA - Divisional Arty - RE
+HB - Brigade Arty - RE
++ MB - Battalion Hvy Mortar - Sup
+++ LB - Company Lt Mortar - Sup
++++ Fighting Company - Front Line A/D
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I cant even figure out how to make ground formations at all. Where is that explained?
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I cant even figure out how to make ground formations at all. Where is that explained?
In Garfunkel's excellent "How to Make Ground Units in C# Aurora" video, amongst other places.
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=10645.0
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In VB Aurora it was defense strength, but in C# Aurora changing the armour rating does not seem to have any effect.
The important stat (for the commander) is Occupation. So far a decent amount of ground troops has been quite successful at supressing unrest, such that I've never built troops strictly for reducing unrest -- my normal army does it automatically as a bonus effect.
IIRC the base strength for garrison duties in Aurora C# is unit number. Which means that lightly armed and equipped infantry formations are highly cost efficient when it comes to keeping the locals quiet.
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New game, new revision of my ground doctrine (http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=10764.msg126174#msg126174).
The basic garrison regiment is mostly the same... a bit lighter on logistics infantry:
Planetary Defense Regiment (5000 tons)
Regiment HQ (Static-HQ5000, AR 3)
615 Infantry Troopers (Inf-PW, AR 1)
58 Anti-Tank Troopers (Inf-LAV, AR 1)
30 Supply Cache (Inf-LOG-S, AR 1)
11 Anti-Tank Gun (Static-HAV, AR 1)
If I have the math right, I believe that gives the regiment intrinsic supply for 10 days of combat. Having mostly done peaceful buildup so far, I have no idea if that's high or low, but it seems like a decent ballpark.
I merged the Brigade command and STO weapons into one formation:
Planetary Defense Brigade (5000 tons)
Brigade HQ (Static-HQ25000, AR 3)
Siege Laser Emplacement (Static-20cm Laser, AR 1)
5 Orbital Laser Emplacement (Static-10cm Laser, AR 1)
5 Construction Truck (Vehicle-CONx2, AR 2)
74 Mortar Troopers (Inf-LB, AR 1)
10 Supply Cache (Inf-LOG-S, AR 1)
Subordinate Formations: 4 Planetary Defense Regiments
That solves my main concern, that having a regiment dedicated to STO weapons was just too extravagant (now instead of the STO guns costing more than twice as much as the rest of the brigade combined, it's "only" as much as the rest), not to mention cumbersome when it came to setting field positions. Plus, it gives me a convenient 25,000 ton formation I can drop on any given planet and have a decent versatile defense against minor attacks, or I can drop several to really fortify an important colony.
OTOH it means the expensive STO weapons are going to be in the support position instead of rear echelon - I'm not sure how I feel about that, since it increases the chance of losing them in ground combat. I could replace the light bombardment units with heavy/long range bombardment and make the whole formation rear echelon, but that would be less efficient (also I don't have those techs yet). Alternately, I could assume that once the enemy has landed the STO weapons have probably served their purpose anyways. Also I have to admit the idea of the enemy landing ground forces to deal with STO weapons is all sorts of thematic.
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Thank you for the help. I came up with the police units that are pictured in the attached picture as practice. Still some mistakes but its a start.
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I recreated a soviet motorized rifle battalion in aurora.
(https://i.imgur.com/dm0f63M.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/EkUmf2l.png)
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New game, new revision of my ground doctrine (http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=10764.msg126174#msg126174).
The basic garrison regiment is mostly the same... a bit lighter on logistics infantry:
Planetary Defense Regiment (5000 tons)
Regiment HQ (Static-HQ5000, AR 3)
615 Infantry Troopers (Inf-PW, AR 1)
58 Anti-Tank Troopers (Inf-LAV, AR 1)
30 Supply Cache (Inf-LOG-S, AR 1)
11 Anti-Tank Gun (Static-HAV, AR 1)
If I have the math right, I believe that gives the regiment intrinsic supply for 10 days of combat. Having mostly done peaceful buildup so far, I have no idea if that's high or low, but it seems like a decent ballpark.
I merged the Brigade command and STO weapons into one formation:
Planetary Defense Brigade (5000 tons)
Brigade HQ (Static-HQ25000, AR 3)
Siege Laser Emplacement (Static-20cm Laser, AR 1)
5 Orbital Laser Emplacement (Static-10cm Laser, AR 1)
5 Construction Truck (Vehicle-CONx2, AR 2)
74 Mortar Troopers (Inf-LB, AR 1)
10 Supply Cache (Inf-LOG-S, AR 1)
Subordinate Formations: 4 Planetary Defense Regiments
That solves my main concern, that having a regiment dedicated to STO weapons was just too extravagant (now instead of the STO guns costing more than twice as much as the rest of the brigade combined, it's "only" as much as the rest), not to mention cumbersome when it came to setting field positions. Plus, it gives me a convenient 25,000 ton formation I can drop on any given planet and have a decent versatile defense against minor attacks, or I can drop several to really fortify an important colony.
OTOH it means the expensive STO weapons are going to be in the support position instead of rear echelon - I'm not sure how I feel about that, since it increases the chance of losing them in ground combat. I could replace the light bombardment units with heavy/long range bombardment and make the whole formation rear echelon, but that would be less efficient (also I don't have those techs yet). Alternately, I could assume that once the enemy has landed the STO weapons have probably served their purpose anyways. Also I have to admit the idea of the enemy landing ground forces to deal with STO weapons is all sorts of thematic.
Two options, either make Battalions your front line troops, or put STO's Heavy AA and Heavy MB at the Division level. I opted for the former, but am starting to lean towards the latter...
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I'm on a new game, and I've changed up my design philosophy a bit. To make my force structure more flexible, and to make use of the commanders with <10k command skill, I've started adding standalone battalions into my force structure.
A standard division is 50k tons total, with 3-4 regiments(10k tons) as front-line combat forces, a divisional HQ section containing artillery(4k tons), and 3-8 battalion attachments. I'm planning a corps to be 300k tons, but I haven't built that high yet.
Garrison force:
Garrison Regiment [GARR]
Transport Size: 9 994 tons
Build Cost: 284.3 BP
1x Zeus Regimental Command Vehicle (HVH-HQ10k-FFD)
1440x Rifle Section (INF-PW)
24x SAM Section (INF-LAA)
24x Machine Gun Section (INF-CAP)
24x AT Section (INF-LAV)
12x Coventry Anti-Aircraft Fortification (STA-LAA)
12x Kursk Anti-Tank Fortification (STA-MAV)
12x Sumter Anti-Infantry Fortification (STA-HCAP)
20x Supply Section (INF-LOGS)
Garrison Division [GARD]
Transport Size: 3 970 tons
Build Cost: 218.9 BP
1x Cronus Divisional Command Vehicle(HVH-HQ50k-FFD)
144x Mortar Section (INF-LB)
12x Supply Truck (LVH-LOG)
The various attachment options are:
Space Defense Battalion [STOB]
Transport Size: 1 892 tons
Build Cost: 311.4 BP
1x Battalion HQ Tent(INF-HQ2k)
2x Thunderbolt Planetary Defense Base(STA-20cm C4 Ultraviolet Laser, light armour)
4x Aegis Planetary Defense Base(STA-10cm Railgun V10/C3, light armour)
Supply Battalion [LOGB]
Transport Size: 1 994 tons
Build Cost: 80.2 BP
1x Battalion HQ Tent(INF-HQ2k)
32x Supply Truck(LVH-LOG)
Light Supply Battalion [LGSB]
Transport Size: 2 000 tons
Build Cost: 40.6 BP
1x Battalion HQ Tent(INF-HQ2k)
199x Supply Section(INF-LOGS)
Flak Battalion [FLKB]
Transport Size: 1 942 tons
Build Cost: 76.9 BP
1x Battalion HQ Tent(INF-HQ2k)
12x Falcon Anti-Air Vehicle(HVH-2x HAA, light armour)
6x Supply Section(INF-LOGS)
Bombardment Battalion [BOMB]
Transport Size: 1 970 tons
Build Cost: 79.2 BP
1x Battalion HQ Tent(INF-HQ2k)
20x Hera Bombardment Vehicle(VEH-2x MB, light armour)
Construction Battalion [CONB]
Transport Size: 1 918 tons
Build Cost: 77.1 BP
1x Battalion HQ Tent(INF-HQ2k)
6x Forethought Entrenching Vehicle(VEH-2x CON, light armour)
Spare HQ Tents [SHQB]
Transport Size: 2 000 tons
Build Cost: 160 BP
1x Division HQ Tent(INF-HQ50k)
30x Regimental HQ Tent(INF-HQ10k)
25x Battalion HQ Tent(INF-HQ2k)
That last one makes no sense in garrison usage, I'm sure, but it might see use in offensive formations when I build some of those. The STO units being lightly armoured feels a little wrong, but the cost to up-armour them rapidly got obscene, so I'd rather just build more of them.
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An understanding question of how hierarchies work:
(https://i.imgur.com/LMQAIMI.png)
So in this example, 15th Brigade Infantry is in the Rear Echelon and can support any unit under it, including any additional sub-tiers made under the existing structure. (So If Platoons, Squads, and Fire Teams were added under each company they would still be "covered". It can do counterbattery fire into enemy Rear Echelon with HB.
1st Battalion HQ can support only the units directly under its command. If it has HB units (it does) it can do counterbattery fire into enemy Rear Echelon. If it had LB units (it doesn't) it can support a unit under it during the attack phase versus the bombardment phase.
Under 1st Battalion there are 2 Assault Companies set to FL Attack, each one is being supported by a Defense Company, set to FL Defense, and a Support Company set to Support. The theory being the LB's in the Defense Company and Support Company will fire in the attack phase, while the MB in Support Company will fire in the bombardment phase.
2nd Battalion HQ could support the listed units and any sub units placed under those existing units. If it has HB units (it does) it can do counterbattery fire into enemy Rear Echelon. If it had LB units (it doesn't) it can support a unit under it during the attack phase versus the bombardment phase.
Under 2nd Battalion there are 2 support chains each one comprising of an Assault Company on FL Attack supported by a Defense Company on FL Defense supported by a Support Company on Support. The theory being when the Assault Company attacks it only gets Defense Company support in attack phase, the Support Company will support the Defense Company if it gets attacked during both the attack phase and bombardment phase.
So the question: Is my understanding correct? Will both set-ups work per theory? If not, why not? And finally If I were to put some Defense Company and Support Company directly under 15th Brigade Infantry (so not in any Battalion) and had them set to FL Defense and Support respectively, would it provide a defensive benefit from "bleed through" breakthroughs which go through a Battalion or would it put the Brigade HQ closer to the "front lines" so to speak?
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In my current game, I'm using three types of companies for the front lines.
Rifle Comapny
Transport Size: 1,612 tons
Build Cost: 48.5 BP
45x Rifleman '25
36x Weapons Expert '25 (PWI)
6x AT Team '25
9x Machine Gun Team '25
11x Logistics Team '25
3x Forward Observer '25
1x EM 50mm Cannon 25 (STA, HAV)
1x Com. Commander '25
2x MG 25 (STA, HCAP)
2x EM 20mm Cannon 25 (STA, MAV)
Cavalry Troop
Transport Size: 2,118 tons
Build Cost: 113.3 BP
3x Meerkat Forward Observer Truck (LVH, FFD)
1x Troop Command Vehicle (LVH)
10x Logistical Truck '25
6x Bobcat Assault Vehicle (VEH, 2x MAC)
18x Jackal Combat Vehicle (LVH, HCAP)
Armor Company
Transport Size: 1,926 tons
Build Cost: 123 BP
3x Meerkat Forward Observer Truck (LVH, FFD)
10x Logistical Truck '25
15x Tusk Main Battle Tank (VEH, MAV + HCAP)
1x Com. Command Tank '25 (LVH)
Three of a given type are grouped into a battalion with more logistics, light bombardment, and AA (Rifle and Cav use infantry for this, Armor uses medium vehicles with doubled up weapons). Two rifle battalions and a cavalry squadron make an infantry regiment, while two armor battalions and a rifle battalion form an armor regiment. The infantry regiment is primarily defensive, with the cavalry squadron giving it some light attack power, and a bit of a heavier punch coming from the Bobcats, while the Armor regiment is more offensive, bringing the heavier hitting tanks, but with a rifle battalion to make it a bit more flexible.
Brigades are either two infantry regiments or two armor regiments, along with a support regiment consisting of two artillery battalions (with two MB batteries and one MAA battery, soon to be upgraded to HB and HAA), and an engineer battalion made up of two engineer companies.
Last are the STO batteries:
Orbital Battery
Transport Size: 4,805 tons
Build Cost: 693.4 BP
1x Com. Commander '25
8x EM 10cm Orbital Gun 25
4x EM 12cm Orbital Gun 25
3x EM 15cm Orbital Gun 25
All railgun, they use a grouping of the three barrel sizes I had when I designed them for a mix of range and damage to penetrate armor vs repeated mass fire against missiles. As I'm closing in on wrapping up some rushed weapons research that's set me up two tiers, these may wind up looking a bit different in the near future.
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I normally don't mix logistics elements with combat classes. I make dedicated logistics units who will linger either on the rear of same division or a special rear supply division in the army. This way I can field more concentrated firepower in my FL divisions. But definately a doctrine choice and I can see the other way around works as well.
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I normally don't mix logistics elements with combat classes. I make dedicated logistics units who will linger either on the rear of same division or a special rear supply division in the army. This way I can field more concentrated firepower in my FL divisions. But definately a doctrine choice and I can see the other way around works as well.
I noticed that, when a logistic unit with only logistic vehicles get completely consumed, the game throw out a "divided by 0" error.
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I normally don't mix logistics elements with combat classes. I make dedicated logistics units who will linger either on the rear of same division or a special rear supply division in the army. This way I can field more concentrated firepower in my FL divisions. But definately a doctrine choice and I can see the other way around works as well.
I noticed that, when a logistic unit with only logistic vehicles get completely consumed, the game throw out a "divided by 0" error.
Then you should post it in the bug reports thread.