Aurora 4x

C# Aurora => C# Bureau of Design => Topic started by: blue emu on April 29, 2020, 10:54:16 AM

Title: What to do if Flight Crew Berths are not sufficient?
Post by: blue emu on April 29, 2020, 10:54:16 AM
Aurora automatically assigns Flight Crew Berths at a rate of 20 per Hanger Bay.

But what if I need more than that?

Quote
Sting class Carrier      24,987 tons       376 Crew       2,778.3 BP       TCS 500    TH 1,875    EM 0
3752 km/s      Armour 3-76       Shields 0-0       HTK 207      Sensors 6/8/0/0      DCR 12      PPV 31.68
Maint Life 2.12 Years     MSP 1,233    AFR 416%    IFR 5.8%    1YR 365    5YR 5,481    Max Repair 182.4 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 5,000 tons     Magazine 640   
Commander    Control Rating 2   BRG   AUX   
Intended Deployment Time: 22 months    Flight Crew Berths 100    Morale Check Required   

Ion Drive  EP312.50 Y36 (6)    Power 1875.0    Fuel Use 44.27%    Signature 312.5    Explosion 10%
Fuel Capacity 4,790,000 Litres    Range 77.9 billion km (240 days at full power)

Quad Gauss Cannon R300-100 Y23 Turret Y27 (1x12)    Range 30,000km     TS: 16000 km/s     Power 0-0     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
Beam PD Fire Control R96-TS16000 2x4 Y34 (1)     Max Range: 96,000 km   TS: 16,000 km/s     90 79 69 58 48 38 27 17 6 0

Stinger-1 ASM 6-4wh-17k100m Y37 (107)    Speed: 17,067 km/s    End: 98.1m     Range: 100.5m km    WH: 4    Size: 6    TH: 68/40/20

Active Search Sensor AS39-R100 Y30 (1)     GPS 2100     Range 39.8m km    Resolution 100
Thermal Sensor TH1.0-6 (1)     Sensitivity 6     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  19.4m km
EM Sensor EM1.0-8 (1)     Sensitivity 8     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  22.4m km

Strike Group
2x Antenna Fighter-Scout   Speed: 12159 km/s    Size: 5.14
16x Wasp Fighter   Speed: 11793 km/s    Size: 5.3

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes

Quote
Antenna class Fighter-Scout      258 tons       9 Crew       84.1 BP       TCS 5    TH 63    EM 0
12159 km/s      Armour 1-3       Shields 0-0       HTK 2      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 51%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 15    5YR 226    Max Repair 47.2 MSP
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 days    Morale Check Required   

FTR-2 Ion Drive  EP62.50 Y38 (1)    Power 62.5    Fuel Use 1546.80%    Signature 62.5    Explosion 25%
Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres    Range 0.9 billion km (20 hours at full power)

Active Search Sensor AS59-R100 Y40 (1)     GPS 4725     Range 59.7m km    Resolution 100

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction

Quote
Wasp class Fighter      265 tons       8 Crew       72 BP       TCS 5    TH 63    EM 0
11793 km/s      Armour 1-3       Shields 0-0       HTK 2      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 6
Maint Life 0 Years     MSP 0    AFR 52%    IFR 0.7%    1YR 10    5YR 148    Max Repair 31.5 MSP
Magazine 6   
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 days    Morale Check Required   

FTR-2 Ion Drive  EP62.50 Y38 (1)    Power 62.5    Fuel Use 1546.80%    Signature 62.5    Explosion 25%
Fuel Capacity 20,000 Litres    Range 0.9 billion km (20 hours at full power)

Size 6.00 Box Launcher (1)     Missile Size: 6    Hangar Reload 122 minutes    MF Reload 20 hours
FTR Missile Fire Control FC97-R100 Y38 (1)     Range 97.5m km    Resolution 100
Boomer HASM 6-9wh-17k-65m Y38 (1)    Speed: 17,067 km/s    End: 63.5m     Range: 65.1m km    WH: 9    Size: 6    TH: 68/40/20

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction

I need 146 berths for my air-crew. Aurora gives me only 100. Is there some way around this? Do I really need to find thousands of extra tonnage for a couple of empty hangar bays?
Title: Re: What to do if Flight Crew Berths are not sufficient?
Post by: davidb86 on April 29, 2020, 10:58:01 AM
you can reduce the deployment time on your fighters which will reduce the large crews.  you have 6 day deployment times on fighters with 20 hour fuel supplies.  With a 2 day deployment time (2.4 times the fuel available) the crew sizes will drop significantly.
Title: Re: What to do if Flight Crew Berths are not sufficient?
Post by: blue emu on April 29, 2020, 11:03:47 AM
you can reduce the deployment time on your fighters which will reduce the large crews.  you have 6 day deployment times on fighters with 20 hour fuel supplies.  With a 2 day deployment time (2.4 times the fuel available) the crew sizes will drop significantly.

I quartered the deployment time (from 6 days to 1.5) and it made no difference at all to the crew requirements.

Crew size isn't determined by deployment time, is it? I thought only life support mass was affected.
Title: Re: What to do if Flight Crew Berths are not sufficient?
Post by: smoelf on April 29, 2020, 11:10:52 AM
The way I read the change, you don't need more than that. The '20 flight crew berths per hangar bay' are assumed to be sufficient for all parasite ships, so you won't have to fiddle with flight crew berths in order to get the exact amount. Essentially, that process has been abstracted away and replaced by a set '20 crew flight crew berths' per hangar bay.
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg104051#msg104051
Title: Re: What to do if Flight Crew Berths are not sufficient?
Post by: Cedras on April 29, 2020, 11:20:18 AM
Not sure if WAI, but crew size is not reduced with <1 month deployments. 20 flight crew berths per hangar will not suffice w/o the reduction.
Title: Re: What to do if Flight Crew Berths are not sufficient?
Post by: Person012345 on April 29, 2020, 11:25:43 AM
The way I read the change, you don't need more than that. The '20 flight crew berths per hangar bay' are assumed to be sufficient for all parasite ships, so you won't have to fiddle with flight crew berths in order to get the exact amount. Essentially, that process has been abstracted away and replaced by a set '20 crew flight crew berths' per hangar bay.
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg104051#msg104051
Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is how it's intended to work. A "flight crew berth" is presumably a berth for the entire flight crew of one parasite and so if you cram more than 20 parasites into a 1000 ton hanger space then you might have an RP difficulty (I don't think it would affect it mechanically though).
Title: Re: What to do if Flight Crew Berths are not sufficient?
Post by: blue emu on April 29, 2020, 11:30:57 AM
Well... at least this theory can be tested. I'll fill the Bays with Fighters, putting me nearly 50% over the limit if  the theory is wrong, and we'll see if I get any "overcrowding" messages.

For SCIENCE!
Title: Re: What to do if Flight Crew Berths are not sufficient?
Post by: Cedras on April 29, 2020, 11:36:41 AM
The way I read the change, you don't need more than that. The '20 flight crew berths per hangar bay' are assumed to be sufficient for all parasite ships, so you won't have to fiddle with flight crew berths in order to get the exact amount. Essentially, that process has been abstracted away and replaced by a set '20 crew flight crew berths' per hangar bay.
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg104051#msg104051 (http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg104051#msg104051)
Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is how it's intended to work. A "flight crew berth" is presumably a berth for the entire flight crew of one parasite and so if you cram more than 20 parasites into a 1000 ton hanger space then you might have an RP difficulty (I don't think it would affect it mechanically though).
Flight crew birth were handled as 'per crew member' in VB6 and I don't think that changed.
Title: Re: What to do if Flight Crew Berths are not sufficient?
Post by: Person012345 on April 29, 2020, 11:37:31 AM
The way I read the change, you don't need more than that. The '20 flight crew berths per hangar bay' are assumed to be sufficient for all parasite ships, so you won't have to fiddle with flight crew berths in order to get the exact amount. Essentially, that process has been abstracted away and replaced by a set '20 crew flight crew berths' per hangar bay.
http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg104051#msg104051 (http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg104051#msg104051)
Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is how it's intended to work. A "flight crew berth" is presumably a berth for the entire flight crew of one parasite and so if you cram more than 20 parasites into a 1000 ton hanger space then you might have an RP difficulty (I don't think it would affect it mechanically though).
Flight crew birth were handled as 'per crew member' in VB6 and I don't think that changed.
As was posted in one of the previous messages: http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg104051#msg104051
Title: Re: What to do if Flight Crew Berths are not sufficient?
Post by: Cedras on April 29, 2020, 11:44:29 AM
That doesn't specify if 1 flight crew birth = 1 crew or 1 fighters entire crew
Title: Re: What to do if Flight Crew Berths are not sufficient?
Post by: Jorgen_CAB on April 29, 2020, 11:48:15 AM
Steve has said that the mechanic does not work as it did in VB6. You do not have to worry about the number of crew for parasites anymore and the value 20 is only there for show. It does not matter how many crew your parasites actually have as the hangar module assume there is enough space for all of them.

If you find that it works otherwise it should be a bug.
Title: Re: What to do if Flight Crew Berths are not sufficient?
Post by: smoelf on April 29, 2020, 11:52:56 AM
That doesn't specify if 1 flight crew birth = 1 crew or 1 fighters entire crew

It does say that "[t]hese berths are assumed to be sufficient for whatever parasite warships are present." Which means you don't have to worry about additional flight crew berths.
Title: Re: What to do if Flight Crew Berths are not sufficient?
Post by: Cedras on April 29, 2020, 11:58:05 AM
I misinterpreted that part as 'steve assumes they are sufficent for any fighter we put in there' rather than 'its automagicly sufficient crew space for any ship players put in there'
Title: Re: What to do if Flight Crew Berths are not sufficient?
Post by: Garfunkel on April 29, 2020, 11:37:08 PM
you can reduce the deployment time on your fighters which will reduce the large crews.  you have 6 day deployment times on fighters with 20 hour fuel supplies.  With a 2 day deployment time (2.4 times the fuel available) the crew sizes will drop significantly.

I quartered the deployment time (from 6 days to 1.5) and it made no difference at all to the crew requirements.

Crew size isn't determined by deployment time, is it? I thought only life support mass was affected.
You are correct - deployment time only affects how much life support tonnage each crew member requires, it does not affect the amount of crew itself.
Title: Re: What to do if Flight Crew Berths are not sufficient?
Post by: mtm84 on April 30, 2020, 01:32:34 AM
I’m not sure that’s entirely accurate.  I have 100 ton fighters with .1 deployment time, and they take two crew, even though any ship with an engine, a weapon, and a fire control should require 3 crew even with very small components.
Title: Re: What to do if Flight Crew Berths are not sufficient?
Post by: hubgbf on July 02, 2020, 04:45:52 PM
Aurora automatically assigns Flight Crew Berths at a rate of 20 per Hanger Bay.

But what if I need more than that?


Hi,

While designing my first carrier I noticed that boat bay and hangar deck both generated a 20 flight crew berth.
If you need more flight crew berth, try changing hangar deck with boat bay. It is more expansive, but you can increase your number of flight crew berth.

Hope it helps.
Title: Re: What to do if Flight Crew Berths are not sufficient?
Post by: liveware on July 02, 2020, 05:14:46 PM
I%u2019m not sure that%u2019s entirely accurate.  I have 100 ton fighters with .1 deployment time, and they take two crew, even though any ship with an engine, a weapon, and a fire control should require 3 crew even with very small components.

I have designed 500 ton, engineless, missile defense stations before with zero crew. Even with something like 30x box launchers, a MFC, and a set of passive and active sensors, these stations still had zero crew. I deleted the DB file but I might try and recreate these again soon.

EDIT: See missile defense station below:
Code: [Select]
Ragnar class Orbital Weapon Platform      497 tons       0 Crew       27.1 BP       TCS 10    TH 0    EM 0
1 km/s      Armour 1-5       Shields 0-0       HTK 0      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 3.4
Maint Life 10.34 Years     MSP 40    AFR 99%    IFR 1.4%    1YR 1    5YR 10    Max Repair 1.0 MSP
Magazine 34   
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months    Morale Check Required   


Size 1 Box Launcher (32)     Missile Size: 1    Hangar Reload 50 minutes    MF Reload 8 hours
Size 2.0 Box Launcher (1)     Missile Size: 2.0    Hangar Reload 70 minutes    MF Reload 11 hours
Missile Fire Control FC11-R100 (1)     Range 11.7m km    Resolution 100
Missile Fire Control FC20-R500 (1)     Range 20m km    Resolution 500
Missile Fire Control FC2-R1 (1)     Range 2.5m km    Resolution 1
Interplanetary Ballistic Missile (1)    Speed: 100 km/s    End: 7.4d     Range: 64.6m km    WH: 0    Size: 2.000    TH: 0/0/0
Spy Satellite (EM) (1)    Speed: 0 km/s    End: 0m     Range: 0m km    WH: 0    Size: 1    TH: 0/0/0
Spy Satellite (Thermal) (1)    Speed: 0 km/s    End: 0m     Range: 0m km    WH: 0    Size: 1    TH: 0/0/0
Orbital Launch Ballistic Missile (30)    Speed: 200 km/s    End: 47.4m     Range: 0.6m km    WH: 1    Size: 1.000    TH: 1/0/0

Active Search Sensor AS1-R1 (1)     GPS 1     Range 1.3m km    MCR 113.5k km    Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor AS5-R100 (1)     GPS 100     Range 5.9m km    Resolution 100
Active Search Sensor AS10-R500 (1)     GPS 500     Range 10m km    Resolution 500
EM Sensor EM0.1-0.5 (1)     Sensitivity 0.5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5.6m km
Thermal Sensor TH0.1-0.5 (1)     Sensitivity 0.5     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  5.6m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
Title: Re: What to do if Flight Crew Berths are not sufficient?
Post by: amram on July 02, 2020, 05:30:51 PM
Crew are determined by the components.

Crew berthing is determined by the deployment. 

That is to say, the number and size of quarters you require for a craft is determined by deployment.  Since the quarters do not add beds, rather, just crew tonnage, and deployment scales crew tonnage, deployment will change the tonnage of your ship, not its crew count.
Title: Re: What to do if Flight Crew Berths are not sufficient?
Post by: hubgbf on July 03, 2020, 02:03:16 AM
Hi,

the subject was flight crew berth, not crew berth.
I omit a flight at one point and I have now corrected it.
Title: Re: What to do if Flight Crew Berths are not sufficient?
Post by: SpikeTheHobbitMage on July 03, 2020, 04:56:33 AM
In C# you don't need to worry about providing crew space for parasites.  Hangars automatically provide enough crew space, which is to say that the hangar has a built in crew space requirement and it is defined as being enough for all docked parasites regardless of how many crew the parasites actually have.
Title: Re: What to do if Flight Crew Berths are not sufficient?
Post by: hubgbf on July 03, 2020, 05:24:42 AM
In C# you don't need to worry about providing crew space for parasites.  Hangars automatically provide enough crew space, which is to say that the hangar has a built in crew space requirement and it is defined as being enough for all docked parasites regardless of how many crew the parasites actually have.

In the first post, blue emu said that the default value was not enough for his designs.
Title: Re: What to do if Flight Crew Berths are not sufficient?
Post by: SpikeTheHobbitMage on July 03, 2020, 06:03:51 AM
In C# you don't need to worry about providing crew space for parasites.  Hangars automatically provide enough crew space, which is to say that the hangar has a built in crew space requirement and it is defined as being enough for all docked parasites regardless of how many crew the parasites actually have.

In the first post, blue emu said that the default value was not enough for his designs.
Under VB rules it wouldn't have been, but the rules have changed in C#.