Aurora 4x
C# Aurora => C# Mechanics => Topic started by: steili on May 13, 2020, 12:19:26 PM
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I've tried searching for this, but it doesn't seem to be documented anywhere except for a paragraph on how it works in VB6 (http://aurorawiki.pentarch.org/index.php?title=Terraforming):
The amount of albedo change is based on the extent of the ice sheet (F9 again) plus a random factor.
Is this still the case in C#? I've constructed a spreadsheet to calculate optimal terraforming, but as of now I need to recalculate when ice sheets melts. This would be unnecessary if I knew beforehand how the albedo would change :-)
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I've tried searching for this, but it doesn't seem to be documented anywhere except for a paragraph on how it works in VB6 (http://aurorawiki.pentarch.org/index.php?title=Terraforming):
The amount of albedo change is based on the extent of the ice sheet (F9 again) plus a random factor.
Is this still the case in C#? I've constructed a spreadsheet to calculate optimal terraforming, but as of now I need to recalculate when ice sheets melts. This would be unnecessary if I knew beforehand how the albedo would change :-)
What you may need to do is keep track of the ice sheets and what change occurs to see if there is a pattern.
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I've tried searching for this, but it doesn't seem to be documented anywhere except for a paragraph on how it works in VB6 (http://aurorawiki.pentarch.org/index.php?title=Terraforming):
The amount of albedo change is based on the extent of the ice sheet (F9 again) plus a random factor.
Is this still the case in C#? I've constructed a spreadsheet to calculate optimal terraforming, but as of now I need to recalculate when ice sheets melts. This would be unnecessary if I knew beforehand how the albedo would change :-)
I like you already.
I have the same spreadsheet. In my experience, the albedo doesn't change by much.
So, I don't worry about it when I'm planning.
When the sheet melts, I update the albedo value and make sure that my end-state temperature hasn't gone outside my hab range. Only because I'm paranoid. It's never even come close.
In cases where I'm adding a lot of GH to reach hab range, the albedo increase will allow me to get to the hab range sooner, but I've never seen it reduce the needed terraforming by much.
It does mean that, in cases where your final ATM will be greater than 1.0 (and therefore your final Oxygen will be more than the minimum 0.1), you want to make the sheet melt before you add oxygen, so that you don't add more oxygen than you actually needed for the final amount of GH.
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I'm aware that it's not typically very significant, but I want my calculations to be.. perfect ;D
Regarding oxygen, I always only add 0.1. Is there any point to ever adding more than this? Here's my sheet if you want to have a look:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YMiPY51KzF-l43Zvg0RB3Tnj6tHVHWTk3KkiOCbW63E/edit?usp=sharing
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It does mean that, in cases where your final ATM will be greater than 1.0 (and therefore your final Oxygen will be more than the minimum 0.1), you want to make the sheet melt before you add oxygen, so that you don't add more oxygen than you actually needed for the final amount of GH.
I don't quite get this: You can still have (much) more than 1atm and still only 0.1atm O2. Afaik there's no lower bound to relative oxygen partial pressure. In my sheet there's data from Io. Here I have 0.1atm O2 but 1.25 atm total pressure.
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I don't quite get this: You can still have (much) more than 1atm and still only 0.1atm O2. Afaik there's no lower bound to relative oxygen partial pressure. In my sheet there's data from Io. Here I have 0.1atm O2 but 1.25 atm total pressure.
you need at least 0.1 atm of oxygen and you need it to be between 10% and 30% of the atmosphere, if it drops below 10% it should kick back to un-breathable. If he actually got this from an active game we need to note the version number and submit as a bug.
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I think the correct restriction is 0.1 - 0.3 atm, and below 30% overall.
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I think the correct restriction is 0.1 - 0.3 atm, and below 30% overall.
I'm pretty sure this is correct - there's no lower band on relative partial oxygen pressure.
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I stand corrected
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It does mean that, in cases where your final ATM will be greater than 1.0 (and therefore your final Oxygen will be more than the minimum 0.1), you want to make the sheet melt before you add oxygen, so that you don't add more oxygen than you actually needed for the final amount of GH.
I don't quite get this: You can still have (much) more than 1atm and still only 0.1atm O2. Afaik there's no lower bound to relative oxygen partial pressure. In my sheet there's data from Io. Here I have 0.1atm O2 but 1.25 atm total pressure.
Now I am scratching my head.
Was it so in VB? Surely I did not just invent the 10% rule to make things harder for myself?
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I've tried searching for this, but it doesn't seem to be documented anywhere except for a paragraph on how it works in VB6 (http://aurorawiki.pentarch.org/index.php?title=Terraforming):
The amount of albedo change is based on the extent of the ice sheet (F9 again) plus a random factor.
Is this still the case in C#? I've constructed a spreadsheet to calculate optimal terraforming, but as of now I need to recalculate when ice sheets melts. This would be unnecessary if I knew beforehand how the albedo would change :-)
When the ice melts, Albedo increases by 0.0015 * Hydro Extent.
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I've tried searching for this, but it doesn't seem to be documented anywhere except for a paragraph on how it works in VB6 (http://aurorawiki.pentarch.org/index.php?title=Terraforming):
The amount of albedo change is based on the extent of the ice sheet (F9 again) plus a random factor.
Is this still the case in C#? I've constructed a spreadsheet to calculate optimal terraforming, but as of now I need to recalculate when ice sheets melts. This would be unnecessary if I knew beforehand how the albedo would change :-)
When the ice melts, Albedo increases by 0.0015 * Hydro Extent.
Does this mean that if I add water vapor while the water is frozen I'll get a bigger Albedo increases when it melts?
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I've tried searching for this, but it doesn't seem to be documented anywhere except for a paragraph on how it works in VB6 (http://aurorawiki.pentarch.org/index.php?title=Terraforming):
The amount of albedo change is based on the extent of the ice sheet (F9 again) plus a random factor.
Is this still the case in C#? I've constructed a spreadsheet to calculate optimal terraforming, but as of now I need to recalculate when ice sheets melts. This would be unnecessary if I knew beforehand how the albedo would change :-)
When the ice melts, Albedo increases by 0.0015 * Hydro Extent.
Does this mean that if I add water vapor while the water is frozen I'll get a bigger Albedo increases when it melts?
Yes, although I probably should change it so that adding ice reduces Albedo.
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I've tried searching for this, but it doesn't seem to be documented anywhere except for a paragraph on how it works in VB6 (http://aurorawiki.pentarch.org/index.php?title=Terraforming):
The amount of albedo change is based on the extent of the ice sheet (F9 again) plus a random factor.
Is this still the case in C#? I've constructed a spreadsheet to calculate optimal terraforming, but as of now I need to recalculate when ice sheets melts. This would be unnecessary if I knew beforehand how the albedo would change :-)
When the ice melts, Albedo increases by 0.0015 * Hydro Extent.
Does this mean that if I add water vapor while the water is frozen I'll get a bigger Albedo increases when it melts?
Yes, although I probably should change it so that adding ice reduces Albedo.
The way to do that without getting exploity or having to deal with cumulative rounding errors is to factor ice extent into the temperature calculation instead of twiddling the albedo number.
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I've tried searching for this, but it doesn't seem to be documented anywhere except for a paragraph on how it works in VB6 (http://aurorawiki.pentarch.org/index.php?title=Terraforming):
The amount of albedo change is based on the extent of the ice sheet (F9 again) plus a random factor.
Is this still the case in C#? I've constructed a spreadsheet to calculate optimal terraforming, but as of now I need to recalculate when ice sheets melts. This would be unnecessary if I knew beforehand how the albedo would change :-)
When the ice melts, Albedo increases by 0.0015 * Hydro Extent.
Does this mean that if I add water vapor while the water is frozen I'll get a bigger Albedo increases when it melts?
Yes, although I probably should change it so that adding ice reduces Albedo.
Why would ice reduce Albedo?
Albedo is a non-dimensional, unitless quantity that indicates how well a surface reflects solar energy. Albedo (α) varies between 0 and 1. Albedo commonly refers to the "whiteness" of a surface, with 0 meaning black and 1 meaning white. A value of 0 means the surface is a "perfect absorber" that absorbs all incoming energy. Absorbed solar energy can be used to heat the surface or, when sea ice is present, melt the surface. A value of 1 means the surface is a "perfect reflector" that reflects all incoming energy.
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Albedo in Aurora is used differently, even if it refers to the same thing, in Aurora it’s multiplied by the base temperature and greenhouse effect to get final temperature, and is generally above 1 (though usually never more than 1. 1 from what I’ve seen, don’t know the actual limits though), so a real life albedo of 1 would be equivalent to an Aurora 4X albedo of 0, and I don’t know that there’s an equivalent to a real-life albedo of 0 as you can just increase the Aurora 4X albedo seemingly to infinity if we just go by the math while a true black-body would reach an equilibrium of radiating heat and incoming energy.
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I've tried searching for this, but it doesn't seem to be documented anywhere except for a paragraph on how it works in VB6 (http://aurorawiki.pentarch.org/index.php?title=Terraforming):
The amount of albedo change is based on the extent of the ice sheet (F9 again) plus a random factor.
Is this still the case in C#? I've constructed a spreadsheet to calculate optimal terraforming, but as of now I need to recalculate when ice sheets melts. This would be unnecessary if I knew beforehand how the albedo would change :-)
When the ice melts, Albedo increases by 0.0015 * Hydro Extent.
Does this mean that if I add water vapor while the water is frozen I'll get a bigger Albedo increases when it melts?
Yes, although I probably should change it so that adding ice reduces Albedo.
Why would ice reduce Albedo?
Albedo is a non-dimensional, unitless quantity that indicates how well a surface reflects solar energy. Albedo (α) varies between 0 and 1. Albedo commonly refers to the "whiteness" of a surface, with 0 meaning black and 1 meaning white. A value of 0 means the surface is a "perfect absorber" that absorbs all incoming energy. Absorbed solar energy can be used to heat the surface or, when sea ice is present, melt the surface. A value of 1 means the surface is a "perfect reflector" that reflects all incoming energy.
Because albedo in Aurora is backwards. The larger it is, the more energy the body absorbs.
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I've tried searching for this, but it doesn't seem to be documented anywhere except for a paragraph on how it works in VB6 (http://aurorawiki.pentarch.org/index.php?title=Terraforming):
The amount of albedo change is based on the extent of the ice sheet (F9 again) plus a random factor.
Is this still the case in C#? I've constructed a spreadsheet to calculate optimal terraforming, but as of now I need to recalculate when ice sheets melts. This would be unnecessary if I knew beforehand how the albedo would change :-)
When the ice melts, Albedo increases by 0.0015 * Hydro Extent.
Does this mean that if I add water vapor while the water is frozen I'll get a bigger Albedo increases when it melts?
Yes, although I probably should change it so that adding ice reduces Albedo.
I was just going to ask about this. Since the albedo doesn't decrease when water vapour desublimate into ice, you benefit from adding water vapour first (you should do this anyway to let it condense to water/desublimate to ice while you're adding other gases), since the albedo will increase when the ice sheet melts (at -17C?).
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I was just going to ask about this. Since the albedo doesn't decrease when water vapour desublimate into ice, you benefit from adding water vapour first (you should do this anyway to let it condense to water/desublimate to ice while you're adding other gases), since the albedo will increase when the ice sheet melts (at -17C?).
I can confirm this works as per 1. 12, and breaks Albedo.
To replicate, SM change the atmosphere of a planet to reduce its temperature, add hydro, then atmo change to raise its temperature.
The Albedo will increase. You can repeat this to raise the albedo as high as you wish.
The reverse is also true - set hydro high, and atmo-reduce temperature. Remove the hydro, re-set the atmo, and albedo lowers.
Titan is a good example - normally it cannot get into perfect habitable range - with max Greenhouse Factor, it can only reach a temperature factor of 0. 637.
But if you add enough hydrographic extent (the perfect number is 42, of course) before you add greenhouse factor, then albedo will rise to 1. 063 which allows the temperature to reach -9. 6 degrees C.
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I've tried searching for this, but it doesn't seem to be documented anywhere except for a paragraph on how it works in VB6 (http://aurorawiki.pentarch.org/index.php?title=Terraforming):
The amount of albedo change is based on the extent of the ice sheet (F9 again) plus a random factor.
Is this still the case in C#? I've constructed a spreadsheet to calculate optimal terraforming, but as of now I need to recalculate when ice sheets melts. This would be unnecessary if I knew beforehand how the albedo would change :-)
When the ice melts, Albedo increases by 0.0015 * Hydro Extent.
Does this mean that if I add water vapor while the water is frozen I'll get a bigger Albedo increases when it melts?
Yes, although I probably should change it so that adding ice reduces Albedo.
I was just going to ask about this. Since the albedo doesn't decrease when water vapour desublimate into ice, you benefit from adding water vapour first (you should do this anyway to let it condense to water/desublimate to ice while you're adding other gases), since the albedo will increase when the ice sheet melts (at -17C?).
I was 100% sure to be -17C and apparently I was wrong. So after years of believing so Steve confirmed me on another post that ice melts at -27C.
I had to redo my spreadsheet because of that.