Aurora 4x
C# Aurora => C# Mechanics => Topic started by: Borealis4x on May 20, 2020, 02:54:43 PM
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So as far as I can tell from the wiki, Spaceports cargo ships, ordinance transfer hubs, and refueling hubs all-in-one. I don't know if they do anything else, not that they'd really need to.
What I want to know is if they scale their capabilities per level. The wiki didn't say anything about it, even though the obvious answer would be yes I think.
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Spaceport does not stack for ammo transfer: http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.msg104196#msg104196
Multiple spaceports or ordnance transfer stations at the colony will not increase the rate of ordnance transfer.
So I presume it is the same for other functions.
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That's disappointing if true. I like the idea of building up your spaceport until you have something truly massive that can easily resupply multiple fleets. Like the Earth Torus from X3 that stretches all the way around the Earth.
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Additional spaceports benefit freight and ground troop loading times. I'm not certain about MSP transfers but they use the same shuttles used for freight.
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Additional spaceports benefit freight and ground troop loading times. I'm not certain about MSP transfers but they use the same shuttles used for freight.
Are you sure about this? Steve stated the below
"Spaceports and Cargo Shuttle Stations can service any number of ships simultaneously but they do not stack. In effect they count as a single Cargo Shuttle Bay for any ship at the population. "
But I am not sure he is saying that they don't stack together or that they do not stack if you have multiple of the same kind? ex. 2 spaceports.
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this is very important actually... I have always assumed they stack...
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That's why I always just build and carry around Spaceports. There is just no benefit using the specialized variants.
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That's why I always just build and carry around Spaceports. There is just no benefit using the specialized variants.
I disagree. On most of my colonies in Sol I end up putting just the cargo shuttles on them. You only really need 1 refueling and 1 ordinance body per system in most cases IMO.
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That's why I always just build and carry around Spaceports. There is just no benefit using the specialized variants.
You need population for Spaceport, that is not the case for specialized variants, this is most likely not a concern on large colonies, but it can be a considered for small ones.
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Spaceports are also more expensive to build.
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In general, if you believe something is obviously unbalanced and flawed, then take a 2nd look. Steve is not that bad in game balancing ;D
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Are you guys chatting about the spaceport you can build in industry tab?
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Are you guys chatting about the spaceport you can build in industry tab?
Yes were trying to determine if having more then a single port increases anything as there is some confusion about it.
I really don't see a reason to ever build shuttle stations anywhere since you technically need a cargo ship with shuttles to carry them to somewhere and at that point just use cargo ships with shuttle bays. I guess you could use them in a game similar to mine where I am not using mass drivers if you needed a fast cargo ship or something and wanted to save weight on shuttle bays..
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Are you guys chatting about the spaceport you can build in industry tab?
Yes were trying to determine if having more then a single port increases anything as there is some confusion about it.
I really don't see a reason to ever build shuttle stations anywhere since you technically need a cargo ship with shuttles to carry them to somewhere and at that point just use cargo ships with shuttle bays. I guess you could use them in a game similar to mine where I am not using mass drivers if you needed a fast cargo ship or something and wanted to save weight on shuttle bays..
What if you want to resupply MSP from a planet onto a ship that isn't a freighter?
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After looking at it again spaceports and the specialized facilities don't stack with each other nor with themselves. If you need all three on the same colony and have workers available then the spaceport is cheaper at 3k BP vs 3600 BP for a full set of specialized installations. If you don't need all three then the specialized installations are always cheaper.
Shuttle stations however stack with freighter shuttles. That is, having a shuttle station counts as having one extra shuttle on every ship in orbit, including ships that don't have their own shuttles. Additional shuttle stations don't stack, however.
Are you guys chatting about the spaceport you can build in industry tab?
Yes were trying to determine if having more then a single port increases anything as there is some confusion about it.
I really don't see a reason to ever build shuttle stations anywhere since you technically need a cargo ship with shuttles to carry them to somewhere and at that point just use cargo ships with shuttle bays. I guess you could use them in a game similar to mine where I am not using mass drivers if you needed a fast cargo ship or something and wanted to save weight on shuttle bays..
It depends on how much stuff you need to move. A freighter with one shuttle bay will load or unload twice as quickly if there is a spaceport or shuttle station present, and the load time with two shuttle bays is reduced by 1/3. So if your freighters have one shuttle bay each and you are moving more than 500k tons* to a planet then you are better off moving a shuttle station there first. If your freighters have two shuttle bays then the tipping point is 750k tons.
*500k tons is 200 infrastructure, or 100 infrastructure and 1/5 million colonists. This makes a big difference for civilian colonization efforts and trade.
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That's disappointing if true. I like the idea of building up your spaceport until you have something truly massive that can easily resupply multiple fleets. Like the Earth Torus from X3 that stretches all the way around the Earth.
+1
X3 is pretty epic.
Alternatively, consider the moon torus of Starship Troopers (movie).
However I am somewhat conflicted by the fact the player may construct custom space stations in Aurora. Maybe a separate 'orbital' or 'ring' classification for space stations would be entertaining? Perhaps orbitals need to be a space station of certain minimum size, and rings must be enormously larger? But orbitals/rings benefit from reduced orbital hab/terraforming/mining complex size/cost? Just thinking out loud....
X3 developed the 'complex' concept for space stations which I think was a reasonable approach. Perhaps Aurora will someday adopt some similar customization mechanics?
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That's disappointing if true. I like the idea of building up your spaceport until you have something truly massive that can easily resupply multiple fleets. Like the Earth Torus from X3 that stretches all the way around the Earth.
+1
X3 is pretty epic.
However I am somewhat conflicted by the fact the player may construct custom space stations in Aurora. Maybe a separate 'orbital' or 'ring' classification for space stations would be entertaining? Perhaps orbitals need to be a space station of certain minimum size, and rings must be enormously larger?
X3 developed the 'complex' concept for space stations which I think was a reasonable approach. Perhaps Aurora will someday adopt some similar customization mechanics?
I had an idea about how to 'add' sections to existing space stations, actually. What you can do is build another station and put it in the same fleet as an existing one and name it something like 'Jupiter Complex'. Bang, you've got your X3-style complex right there for all intents and purposes. I plan to do this with my Sol gas miners around Saturn and Jupiter by adding a habitat and recreation station.
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Nice.
This a concept I must explore more deeply.
However I still like the idea of dedicated orbitals and/or rings... I've read too much of Bank's fiction perhaps.
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According to changes list posted by Steve... (emphasis mine)
1.
> Refuelling Orders
> ...
> Multiple spaceports or refuelling stations at the colony will not increase the rate of refuelling.
2.
> Ordnance Transfer Orders
> ...
> Multiple spaceports or ordnance transfer stations at the colony will not increase the rate of ordnance transfer.
3.
> Cargo Shuttle Bays
> ...
> Spaceports and Cargo Shuttle Stations can service any number of ships simultaneously but they do not stack. In effect they count as a single Cargo Shuttle Bay for any ship at the population.
However, there is also a line
> They retain their existing bonuses to loading and unloading cargo.
Do note that this line come before "Cargo Shuttle Bays" rule post, so this may have changed... :-\
So while it appears to me that nothing stacks, I am not too sure if multiple spaceports still make cargo loading faster like in VB :-\ :-\
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According to changes list posted by Steve... (emphasis mine)
1.
> Refuelling Orders
> ...
> Multiple spaceports or refuelling stations at the colony will not increase the rate of refuelling.
2.
> Ordnance Transfer Orders
> ...
> Multiple spaceports or ordnance transfer stations at the colony will not increase the rate of ordnance transfer.
3.
> Cargo Shuttle Bays
> ...
> Spaceports and Cargo Shuttle Stations can service any number of ships simultaneously but they do not stack. In effect they count as a single Cargo Shuttle Bay for any ship at the population.
However, there is also a line
> They retain their existing bonuses to loading and unloading cargo.
Do note that this line come before "Cargo Shuttle Bays" rule post, so this may have changed... :-\
So while it appears to me that nothing stacks, I am not too sure if multiple spaceports still make cargo loading faster like in VB :-\ :-\
I just did a test and increasing the amount of cargo shuttle stations or spaceports did not decrease the loading time. The loading time of a cargo ship without cargo shuttle bays was 5 days and 18 hours no matter if I had 1 or 5 spaceport or cargo shuttle station. Adding one cargo shuttle bay to the ship did decrease the actual loading time to 2 days and 21 hours, even if the class overview still said 5 days and 18 hours. That's good to remember.
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According to changes list posted by Steve... (emphasis mine)
1.
> Refuelling Orders
> ...
> Multiple spaceports or refuelling stations at the colony will not increase the rate of refuelling.
2.
> Ordnance Transfer Orders
> ...
> Multiple spaceports or ordnance transfer stations at the colony will not increase the rate of ordnance transfer.
3.
> Cargo Shuttle Bays
> ...
> Spaceports and Cargo Shuttle Stations can service any number of ships simultaneously but they do not stack. In effect they count as a single Cargo Shuttle Bay for any ship at the population.
However, there is also a line
> They retain their existing bonuses to loading and unloading cargo.
Do note that this line come before "Cargo Shuttle Bays" rule post, so this may have changed... :-\
So while it appears to me that nothing stacks, I am not too sure if multiple spaceports still make cargo loading faster like in VB :-\ :-\
Installations don't stack with each other at all. Multiple spaceports and/or shuttle stations only count as one extra shuttle bay. Multiple shuttle stations would be totally worth it on major industrial worlds if they stacked.
I just did a test and increasing the amount of cargo shuttle stations or spaceports did not decrease the loading time. The loading time of a cargo ship without cargo shuttle bays was 5 days and 18 hours no matter if I had 1 or 5 spaceport or cargo shuttle station. Adding one cargo shuttle bay to the ship did decrease the actual loading time to 2 days and 21 hours, even if the class overview still said 5 days and 18 hours. That's good to remember.
The rule of thumb is that each shuttle bay can move roughly 5k tons of cargo or 10k colonists per day. Ground based shuttles increase your effective shuttle bays by one. TN shuttles doubles that.
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I had an idea about how to 'add' sections to existing space stations, actually. What you can do is build another station and put it in the same fleet as an existing one and name it something like 'Jupiter Complex'. Bang, you've got your X3-style complex right there for all intents and purposes. I plan to do this with my Sol gas miners around Saturn and Jupiter by adding a habitat and recreation station.
I did something similar this in an old VBAurora game. I designed a bunch of different 'modules', each specialized for a specific function (habitat/rec module, fuel module, hangar module, command module, weapons module, etc.), each equipped with a tractor beam. Once assembled, I linked them to each other with the tractors(though in my head they were physical linkages between modules, not tractor beams), grouped them together in a TG, and named the TG "Commonwealth Station". That way it could perform both military and commercial functions, making it much more versatile - and much, much larger - than any of the regular stand-alone space stations I'd built to that point.
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I think this is already Steve's intended model. I remember I read something about you can make commercial space stations with no armor function for maintenance and recreation, and then put some military stations to protect that which is maintained by that station. As long as you put those to the same location (maybe same fleet) they can work together.
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I think this is already Steve's intended model. I remember I read something about you can make commercial space stations with no armor function for maintenance and recreation, and then put some military stations to protect that which is maintained by that station. As long as you put those to the same location (maybe same fleet) they can work together.
Some things are intended to require the same fleet while others are intended to only require the same location, so yes.