Aurora 4x

C# Aurora => C# Bureau of Design => Topic started by: xenoscepter on August 18, 2020, 02:33:22 AM

Title: Consolidated Class Patrol Cruiser [quik n' dirty]
Post by: xenoscepter on August 18, 2020, 02:33:22 AM

EDIT: Corrected a design oversight in the IIa, the leftover Laser B-FCS was remove. Prior posts compressed into the OP for readability. Consolidated AMM updated to correct design oversight regarding range, changed in OP as well.

Consolidated Class:

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Consolidated class Patrol Cruiser      60,000 tons       1,559 Crew       10,204.3 BP       TCS 1,200    TH 4,800    EM 360
4000 km/s    JR 3-50      Armour 3-136       Shields 12-180       HTK 336      Sensors 22/22/0/0      DCR 100      PPV 30.68
Maint Life 3.07 Years     MSP 21,189    AFR 288%    IFR 4.0%    1YR 3,383    5YR 50,749    Max Repair 4811.9 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 2,500 tons     Troop Capacity 5,000 tons     Magazine 168    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 4   
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Flight Crew Berths 80    Morale Check Required   

Consolidated T12000/J60K(3-50) Jump Drive, M-Class     Max Ship Size 60000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3

Consolidated T5000/1200P-MP (4)    Power 4800    Fuel Use 10.78%    Signature 1200    Explosion 7%
Fuel Capacity 2,752,000 Litres    Range 76.6 billion km (221 days at full power)
Consolidated Delta-Class Shields (2)     Recharge Time 180 seconds (0.1 per second)

Consolidated 10cm Naval Laser [N-UV] Turret, Single Mount [Armored] (2x1)    Range 90,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
Consolidated 10cm Naval Railgun (4x4)    Range 30,000km     TS: 5,000 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
Consolidated CIWS (2x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 16,000 km/s     ROF 5       
Consolidated Laser Turret FCS (1)     Max Range: 240,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     96 92 88 83 79 75 71 67 62 58
Consolidated Railgun FCS (1)     Max Range: 160,000 km   TS: 5,000 km/s     94 88 81 75 69 62 56 50 44 38
Consolidated Stellarator Fusion Reactor T68/12PB20 (2)     Total Power Output 24    Exp 10%

Consolidated Class 3 Missile Cell (6)     Missile Size: 3    Hangar Reload 86 minutes    MF Reload 14 hours
Consolidated Class 3 Missile Launcher (2)     Missile Size: 3    Rate of Fire 15
Consolidated M-FCS (2)     Range 18.8m km    Resolution 1
Consolidated AMM (6)    Speed: 45,133 km/s    End: 0.7m     Range: 1.9m km    WH: 1    Size: 3.00    TH: 346/207/103
Consolidated ASM (48)    Speed: 21,333 km/s    End: 5.9m     Range: 7.6m km    WH: 9    Size: 3    TH: 71/42/21

Consolidated Target Acquisition Sensor (1)     GPS 105     Range 19.2m km    MCR 1.7m km    Resolution 1
Consolidated TH Passive Suite (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  37.1m km
Consolidated EM Passive Suite (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  37.1m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
 - I'll doll this up some more a little later, but this is a Magneto-Plasma / Composite era ship and I was wondering if 4,000km/s is fast for that tech. The weaponry is anemic, but this is more of a domestic peacekeeping ship. It's designed to carry a 5,000 Ton expeditionary force and a small fighter complement, maybe 5-10 Gauss or Missile fighters. The ship will very often operate alone, so I found the CIWS to be an erstwhile addition. The discrepancy in fuel / deployment time ration is the extra fuel for fighter craft or maybe a pair of these:

Lightning Boarding FAC:

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Lightning class Boarding FAC      1,000 tons       26 Crew       106.3 BP       TCS 20    TH 132    EM 0
6602 km/s      Armour 1-8       Shields 0-0       HTK 3      Sensors 0/0/0/0      DCR 0      PPV 0
Maint Life 4.48 Years     MSP 93    AFR 40%    IFR 0.6%    1YR 8    5YR 113    Max Repair 66 MSP
Troop Capacity 550 tons     Boarding Capable   
Lieutenant Commander    Control Rating 1   
Intended Deployment Time: 3 days    Morale Check Required   

Lightning T275/132P[MP] (1)    Power 132    Fuel Use 260.10%    Signature 132    Explosion 15%
Fuel Capacity 29,000 Litres    Range 2 billion km (3 days at full power)

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
 - Same tech, used to deliver a marine complement. Fast, but not that fast, it's poorly defended by any measure. It has a decent range though...

@Elvin:

Off-Topic: show

- The AMM range is indeed a design error, good catch! :D It's supposed to be 1.8 not 18.8 km.
 - I find 9 Months deployment on a warship ends up being excessive and wasteful, but YMMV; 6 months on a patrol ship isn't too bad IMO, only because these will spend most of their time in populated sectors.
 - The armor can only take up to an 11 point laser, or a 15 point missile... a 16 point laser would damn near come out the other side! :o I have Delta Shields, but they are two 200 ton generators... two 500 ton generators would give me 50 shield strength. This perhaps is what you were going by? http://aurorawiki.pentarch.org/index.php?title=File:DamageTemplate.png Not sure if outdated...
 - That's not a million litres of extra fuel, more like 300,000 or so... and those FACs aren't exactly the primary complement, the main complement would be 5-10 fighters with anywhere from 5-30,000 litres each, so the extra allotment is sound. 2,250,000 is the standard fuel load, so the ship carries 502,000 litres extra.
 - The Missile Cell Launchers are for the AMM and AFMs, so no need to worry about enemy PD. The Size 3 is not a mistake, they are typically Size 1, but I like my AMMs with plenty of range and speed.
 - Six deployments before overhaul seems fine to me, and the Jump Drive can be repaired twice from Battle Damage and four times from standard failure, so that's not too bad for the most expensive thing on it.

@Profugo Barbatus

Off-Topic: show

- I consider gaming the construction cycle to be cheesy, at least if not in a PvP environment. 1 billion km is not a lot of reach IMO, since my intended targets would be running away presumably and it takes time to cover a gap. That casualty rate looks pretty good to me though, as this FAC is more for raiding enemy Commercial vessels or crippled ships. The Consolidated sans an engine means my marines with take 66% casualties against a target they had no business boarding in that ship. The Lightning was designed for boarding big slow ships, hence it's 550 Ton Marine payload...

@skoormit

Off-Topic: show

- All useful, thanks!

@Cavgunner

Off-Topic: show

- That's a fair criticism, and it's what I get for putting out a half-arsed post at like... 5 in the morning, lol. Truth be told this is a bit like an Imperial Star Destroyer, but... less. It's armament is centered around it's 5,000 Ton strike team, and this second line ship doubles as a Troop Transport. Currently in my game, I'd really only need one, for Sol.

^To those who replied, and thank you! :)

 --- So, before I do a full write up in the OP, I felt like there were points I could improve the design. First off, I'd like to make clear the intended role of this ship, so I've included the Design Goals in the list found below. These variants are candidates for the replacement of the Consolidated-Class as presented in the OP, with the exception of the IId, which is a prototype and was simply included for the sake of completeness and comparison. The Jump Drive is a contentious inclusion, but I detest Jump Gates and generally have very few of them as I view them as a step towards making the enemy's job easier. Please consider the following variants, as I am looking for feedback and criticism, but please consult the Design Goals before replying. I will disregard feedback along the lines of, "This is a terrible battleship." or "I see what your doing here, but I think you should throw this design in the bin and just spam Missile Cruisers and sacrificial beam fighters instead." Neither of these kinds of feedback are helpful.

 - The Design's goals are thus:

Quote

Primary Objectives:

  1. During war time, act as ferry and fire support for my 5,000 Ton Strike Teams.

  2. During peace time, act as ferry and logistical support for my 1,000 Ton Survey Boats.

Secondary Objectives:

  1. During war time, act as a supplement to my fighter / corvette centric internal security.

  2. During peace time, provide PPV.

--- Now, with that out of the way, I created three variants for the vessel:

Consolidated IIa

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Consolidated IIa class Patrol Cruiser      60,000 tons       1,602 Crew       10,033.5 BP       TCS 1,200    TH 4,800    EM 360
4000 km/s    JR 3-50      Armour 3-136       Shields 12-180       HTK 324      Sensors 22/22/0/0      DCR 120      PPV 12
Maint Life 3.33 Years     MSP 20,941    AFR 240%    IFR 3.3%    1YR 2,857    5YR 42,852    Max Repair 4811.9 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 3,000 tons     Troop Capacity 5,000 tons     Drop Capable    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 4   
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Flight Crew Berths 60    Morale Check Required   

Consolidated T12000/J60K(3-50) Jump Drive, M-Class     Max Ship Size 60000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3

Consolidated T5000/1200P-MP (4)    Power 4800    Fuel Use 10.78%    Signature 1200    Explosion 7%
Fuel Capacity 2,553,000 Litres    Range 71 billion km (205 days at full power)
Consolidated Delta-Class Shields (2)     Recharge Time 180 seconds (0.1 per second)

Consolidated 10cm Naval Railgun (4x4)    Range 30,000km     TS: 5,000 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
Consolidated CIWS (2x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 16,000 km/s     ROF 5       
Consolidated Railgun FCS (1)     Max Range: 160,000 km   TS: 5,000 km/s     94 88 81 75 69 62 56 50 44 38
Consolidated Stellarator Fusion Reactor T68/12PB20 (1)     Total Power Output 12    Exp 10%

Consolidated Target Acquisition Sensor (1)     GPS 105     Range 19.2m km    MCR 1.7m km    Resolution 1
Consolidated TH Passive Suite (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  37.1m km
Consolidated EM Passive Suite (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  37.1m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
 - The IIa strips out the missiles, upgrades the Hangar Deck by 500 Tons and swaps out the normal Troop Transport Bay for a Drop Capable one, while retaining the Cargo Shuttle Bays for their MSP transfer utility. The IIa also reduces the extra fuel from 500,000 to 300,000. The Laser Turrets are removed and a single reactor is removed as well, freeing up space for the other improvements. This version focuses on the primary mission parameters to the exclusion of all else and is very poorly armed for such a large vessel.

Consolidated IIb

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Consolidated IIb class Patrol Cruiser      62,500 tons       1,723 Crew       11,141.1 BP       TCS 1,250    TH 5,120    EM 360
4096 km/s    JR 3-50      Armour 3-140       Shields 12-180       HTK 370      Sensors 22/22/0/0      DCR 125      PPV 30.68
Maint Life 3.42 Years     MSP 24,246    AFR 250%    IFR 3.5%    1YR 3,160    5YR 47,406    Max Repair 5178.8 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 2,500 tons     Troop Capacity 5,000 tons     Magazine 168    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 4   
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Flight Crew Berths 80    Morale Check Required   

Consolidated T12500/J62.5K50-3 Jump Drive, M-Class     Max Ship Size 62500 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3

Consolidated T5000/1280P-MP (4)    Power 5120.0    Fuel Use 12.67%    Signature 1280.00    Explosion 8%
Fuel Capacity 3,161,000 Litres    Range 71.8 billion km (203 days at full power)
Consolidated Delta-Class Shields (2)     Recharge Time 180 seconds (0.1 per second)

Consolidated 10cm Naval Laser [N-UV] Turret, Single Mount [Armored] (2x1)    Range 90,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
Consolidated 10cm Naval Railgun (4x4)    Range 30,000km     TS: 5,000 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
Consolidated CIWS (2x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 16,000 km/s     ROF 5       
Consolidated Laser Turret FCS (1)     Max Range: 240,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     96 92 88 83 79 75 71 67 62 58
Consolidated Railgun FCS (1)     Max Range: 160,000 km   TS: 5,000 km/s     94 88 81 75 69 62 56 50 44 38
Consolidated Stellarator Fusion Reactor T68/12PB20 (2)     Total Power Output 24    Exp 10%

Consolidated Class 3 Missile Cell (6)     Missile Size: 3    Hangar Reload 86 minutes    MF Reload 14 hours
Consolidated Class 3 Missile Launcher (2)     Missile Size: 3    Rate of Fire 15
Consolidated M-FCS (2)     Range 18.8m km    Resolution 1
Consolidated AMM (6)    Speed: 45,133 km/s    End: 0.7m     Range: 1.9m km    WH: 1    Size: 3.00    TH: 346/207/103
Consolidated ASM (48)    Speed: 21,333 km/s    End: 5.9m     Range: 7.6m km    WH: 9    Size: 3    TH: 71/42/21

Consolidated Target Acquisition Sensor (1)     GPS 105     Range 19.2m km    MCR 1.7m km    Resolution 1
Consolidated TH Passive Suite (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  37.1m km
Consolidated EM Passive Suite (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  37.1m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
 - The IIb is just a normal Consolidated class, but bigger. It was upsized for no good reason other than to fit more neatly within my own sizing conventions. It has a better maintenance life overall, better AFR / IFR and is a tad faster, but otherwise is just an upsized version of the Consolidated. I've included it for the sake of austerity, and because I think that being 2,500 Tons bigger actually makes for a better version of the original, on account of improved maintenance life, AFR /IFR and such.

Consolidated IIc

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Consolidated IIc class Patrol Cruiser      40,000 tons       738 Crew       4,187.9 BP       TCS 800    TH 4,800    EM 360
6000 km/s      Armour 3-104       Shields 12-180       HTK 164      Sensors 22/22/0/0      DCR 50      PPV 21.98
Maint Life 3.57 Years     MSP 7,377    AFR 320%    IFR 4.4%    1YR 892    5YR 13,383    Max Repair 450 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 2,000 tons     Troop Capacity 5,000 tons     Drop Capable   
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Flight Crew Berths 40    Morale Check Required   

Consolidated T5000/1200P-MP (4)    Power 4800    Fuel Use 10.78%    Signature 1200    Explosion 7%
Fuel Capacity 2,253,000 Litres    Range 94 billion km (181 days at full power)
Consolidated Delta-Class Shields (2)     Recharge Time 180 seconds (0.1 per second)

Consolidated 10cm Naval Laser [N-UV] Turret, Single Mount [Armored] (2x1)    Range 90,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
Consolidated 10cm Naval Railgun (4x4)    Range 30,000km     TS: 6,000 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
Consolidated CIWS (2x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 16,000 km/s     ROF 5       
Consolidated Laser Turret FCS (1)     Max Range: 240,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     96 92 88 83 79 75 71 67 62 58
Consolidated Railgun FCS (1)     Max Range: 160,000 km   TS: 5,000 km/s     94 88 81 75 69 62 56 50 44 38
Consolidated Stellarator Fusion Reactor T68/12PB20 (2)     Total Power Output 24    Exp 10%

Consolidated Target Acquisition Sensor (1)     GPS 105     Range 19.2m km    MCR 1.7m km    Resolution 1
Consolidated TH Passive Suite (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  37.1m km
Consolidated EM Passive Suite (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  37.1m km

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
 - The IIc is the most dramatic change, being 20,000 Tons lighter than the standard and IIa, while being 22,500 tons lighter than the IIb. It has the highest maintenance life of the four ships, but the worst AFR / IFR of the lot. The IIc is not Jump Capable, loses the missiles and shrinks down the Hangar Deck by 500 tons. It is significantly faster, at 6,000 km/s versus the 4,000 km/s of the standard and IIa. The IIc also does not carry additional fuel for it's parasites. The most spartan of four, the IIc forgoes it's Jump Capability in the name of increased mission capabilities.

Consolidated IId:

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Consolidated IId class Patrol Cruiser      58,000 tons       1,498 Crew       9,774.7 BP       TCS 1,160    TH 4,800    EM 360
4137 km/s    JR 3-50      Armour 3-133       Shields 12-180       HTK 323      Sensors 22/22/0/0      DCR 100      PPV 30.68
Maint Life 2.54 Years     MSP 15,479    AFR 299%    IFR 4.2%    1YR 3,351    5YR 50,269    Max Repair 4527.1 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 2,500 tons     Troop Capacity 5,000 tons     Magazine 168    Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 4   
Captain    Control Rating 4   BRG   AUX   ENG   CIC   
Intended Deployment Time: 6 months    Flight Crew Berths 80    Morale Check Required   

Consolidated T11600/J58K50-3 Jump Drive, M-Class     Max Ship Size 58000 tons    Distance 50k km     Squadron Size 3

Consolidated T5000/1200P-MP (4)    Power 4800    Fuel Use 10.78%    Signature 1200    Explosion 7%
Fuel Capacity 2,239,000 Litres    Range 64.4 billion km (180 days at full power)
Consolidated Delta-Class Shields (2)     Recharge Time 180 seconds (0.1 per second)

Consolidated 10cm Naval Laser [N-UV] Turret, Single Mount [Armored] (2x1)    Range 90,000km     TS: 20000 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
Consolidated 10cm Naval Railgun (4x4)    Range 30,000km     TS: 5,000 km/s     Power 3-3     RM 30,000 km    ROF 5       
Consolidated CIWS (2x6)    Range 1000 km     TS: 16,000 km/s     ROF 5       
Consolidated Laser Turret FCS (1)     Max Range: 240,000 km   TS: 20,000 km/s     96 92 88 83 79 75 71 67 62 58
Consolidated Railgun FCS (1)     Max Range: 160,000 km   TS: 5,000 km/s     94 88 81 75 69 62 56 50 44 38
Consolidated Stellarator Fusion Reactor T68/12PB20 (2)     Total Power Output 24    Exp 10%

Consolidated Class 3 Missile Cell (6)     Missile Size: 3    Hangar Reload 86 minutes    MF Reload 14 hours
Consolidated Class 3 Missile Launcher (2)     Missile Size: 3    Rate of Fire 15
Consolidated M-FCS (2)     Range 18.8m km    Resolution 1
Consolidated AMM (6)    Speed: 45,133 km/s    End: 0.7m     Range: 1.9m km    WH: 1    Size: 3.00    TH: 346/207/103
Consolidated ASM (48)    Speed: 21,333 km/s    End: 5.9m     Range: 7.6m km    WH: 9    Size: 3    TH: 71/42/21

Consolidated Target Acquisition Sensor (1)     GPS 105     Range 19.2m km    MCR 1.7m km    Resolution 1
Consolidated TH Passive Suite (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  37.1m km
Consolidated EM Passive Suite (1)     Sensitivity 22     Detect Sig Strength 1000:  37.1m km

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Military Vessel for maintenance purposes
 - The very first iteration, this variant pre-dates the version in the OP. I've included it for the sake of completeness as well as comparison to the one in the OP. Slightly faster, slightly cheaper, but no excess fuel for it's fighters and considerably less maintenance life. The AFR/IFR is worse as well. This is not one of the three variants that I created, because it was made before the "original", a prototype if you will.

Title: Re: Consolidated Class Patrol Cruiser [quik n' dirty]
Post by: Aurex on August 18, 2020, 10:11:57 AM

I don't have an impressive design record (my ships are often barely functional in their roles and I tend to go more for the RP approach than functionality) so my opinion might not be that relevant. . .  but I really like this one!
Especially from a RP point of view.  I can see something like that in every major system, often patrolling trade routes and quell dissent whenever necessary. 
Also, for being a 60k tons behemoth it's quite fast!

Title: Re: Consolidated Class Patrol Cruiser [quik n' dirty]
Post by: Elvin on August 18, 2020, 10:21:30 AM

A few opinions:

• Too much shielding, too little armour. Until you get to rather high shield tech, armour gives much more HP per ton than shields. 3 layers of armour would be penetrated by a strength 16 laser or missile hit, which isn't unreasonable at this tech level
• 6 month deployment time for a "patrol ship" seems pretty low. I'd have expected at least a year, if not longer - my main battle fleet is all designed with a 9 month deployment time, but this is very much a personal choice
• I don't know how much fuel you think your fighters will need, but it looks to me like you have a least one million extra liters of fuel on that ship - and your example FAC only has 29k fuel capacity, there's no way it would ever make a dent in the massive fuel reserves you have
• Similar to fuel discrepancy, but you also have about double the maintenance life I'd expect for a ship. But, this is again a bit of a personal choice (and how unlucky you feel regarding how often that jump drive will fail)
• I'm unsure what you're trying to achieve with your Missile Cell launchers. Only 6 will never get through even the lightest of point defence. And on a similar note, your AMMs and their launchers look oversized - you probably can't detect a missile at 18 million km, so there's no point being able to file an AMM that far. Traditionally they're always size 1 missiles

I hope some of that is helpful :)

Title: Re: Consolidated Class Patrol Cruiser [quik n' dirty]
Post by: Profugo Barbatus on August 18, 2020, 01:43:53 PM

That boarding FAC seems far too slow. You need a significant speed advantage to not end up killing the majority of the boarding party before they make it to the target. If that FAC tried boarding its own mothership, it would have a 33% survival rate, and thats with troops that specifically have the "Boarding Combat" modifier. If you launch regular infantry, cut that number in half again.

I would probably reduce the fuel and maintenance supplies, if you're launching a boarding attack from a day and a half range away, something has probably gone terribly wrong. If the ship is out long enough for a 5 day breakdown tick, something has probably gone wrong. If you can't push the engine boost multiplier up any farther, I might just push it out of FAC range and go for 60-75% engines on it.

Title: Re: Consolidated Class Patrol Cruiser [quik n' dirty]
Post by: skoormit on August 18, 2020, 02:33:49 PM

Quote from: xenoscepter on August 18, 2020, 02:33:22 AM

...and I was wondering if 4,000km/s is fast for that tech.

I wouldn't call it fast, but for the ship's intended role, it's reasonable.

For any given engine tech level, I consider the baseline combat ship speed to be whatever is achieved on a hull with a 30% engine fraction using the best power multiplier tech that is less than half the cost of the engine tech level.

Magneto-plasma (20k RP) is 16EP per HS, and the associated power multiplier is 2x (at 8k RP), so the baseline speed is:
0.3 * 16 * 2 * 1000 = 9600km/s.

For a ship like your cruiser, which wants to operate independently over a large area (rather than always traveling directly to/from areas of conflict), dropping the power multiplier down to 1x is a reasonable tradeoff for getting a cheaper engine and saving a ton of fuel.

That would put you at 4800km/s.
I'd be okay ending up at 4000km/s by reducing the engine fraction to make room for operational components, but I would not want to rely on such a design for serious warfare.

Title: Re: Consolidated Class Patrol Cruiser [quik n' dirty]
Post by: Cavgunner on August 18, 2020, 03:28:28 PM

Some of my own thoughts to echo the other comments posted here:

This is a really, really big ship by any measure at that tech level. Lots of resources to make, lots of time to construct, lots of crew to fill out, and it requires equally large shipyards to make. And this is all for a vessel that, according to its design theory, is not even a true frontline ship. And it certainly isn't - as a large ship it would receive targeting priority, and with so little armor most attacks will be breaking through in the very first salvo, shields or no. I don't get what this ship is supposed to fight or why it has to be so big to perform a rear-area patrol function. Both in game and IRL vessels designed to perform such functions are small and cheap - they aren't giant quasi-battleships with cotton candy armor.

Also... just how many resources do you have to throw around here? At this tech level, and in a standard game start, I'm really pushing things to outfit a fleet that has *maybe* 3-4 20,000 ton cruisers, a dozen destroyers of 10k each, and the usual assortment of auxiliary ships. Just building the shipyards for this thing could take decades. If this is a second-line ship, goodness, I tremble to imagine what monsters you're building as first-rate ships.

TLDR: Take a 5000 ton-ish bathtub, stick an engine and a few weapons on it, fill the rest up with fuel tanks to give it long legs, and give it some boarding capacity for fluff flavor if you really want to. Done.

Sorry if I'm being a bit harsh, but any reasonable player civilization would bleed itself dry making the beast you've posted here.

Title: Re: Consolidated Class Patrol Cruiser [quik n' dirty]
Post by: kenlon on August 19, 2020, 02:38:33 PM

As someone who likes big ships and he cannot lie - being able to turn out 60K military ships by the time you hit Magneto-Pulse should be well within the realm of possibility, even on a normal research speed game.Shipyards really aren't that expensive to build and expand. (Though I will admit that playing on sub-25% research speed almost exclusively may have skewed my expectations a bit - when it's so long between tech generations, you learn to rely on being able to lay down more hulls to win fights.)

The Consolidated IIc is the clear winner, in my book. These are not cruisers in the classic sense of vessels that are lighter and faster than the ships of the line, and are sent out to poke their noses in where there may be hornets. The very short deployment and maintenance windows mean these will be chained down to your own colonies (or bases with maint facilities, though I haven't tried that in a while since last time I did they were bugged.) Therefore, having a jump drive on every single one of these is a tremendous waste of resources, not to mention the fact that it means an unlucky year of failure rolls could wipe out half your MSP in a go. And the weapon loadout on these, with their extremely minimal AMM capacity, shows that they aren't built for serious combat either.
. Looking at what these ships actually would work for in practice, they're armed troop transports. And the IIc gets you twice as many hulls for the same cost, bringing twice as many troops, and bringing them faster. And since these aren't really the sort of ships you want to put in the lead in a straight fight if you can help it, the lack of a jump drive won't really hinder them.  You're going to have pure combat ships leading the way, and the Consolidated's can just tail along in their slipstream, no need to have them squadron jump in/jump under their own power.

It just hit me what you've built - this isn't a Star Destroyer, this is a Clone Wars-era Acclamator Assault Ship. Able to add some firepower to a the battlegroup leading an invasion on the way in, drop a solid number of troops on planet, and then support those troops while the rest of the fleet mops up any hostiles left in the system. Personally, my combat troop transports tend to forgo offensive weaponry in favor of more speed/tougher defenses (they can be a good place to put turrets optimized for Area PD for example) since losing too many troops before you hit the ground can mean defeat in a fight you might have otherwise won.