Post by: SteveAlt on December 27, 2008, 11:45:13 AM
Teams are still created in the same way as before on the Pop window except you have some additional options for listing officers that are already assigned and that are in other locations. When you select Officers on the Commanders window that have been assigned to a team, their assignment will be shown as that team and their location will be the team's current location. Officers in teams retain their ranks and will be promoted in the normal way. Officers within a team can be assigned to other commands in the same way as any other officer. If an officer is transferred from a team to a new command, the rating of the team will be reduced by an amount equal to the relevant bonus for the officer. Officers in teams will suffer from ill health and accidents like any other officer and if they die or are forced to retire they will be removed from the team and its rating will be reduced. Teams with less than 5 members will be listed as potential assignments on the commanders window so that new team members can be assigned. When a officer joins an understrength team, the team rating is increased by the relevant bonus of the officer. The relevant bonuses of officers assigned to teams will occasionally increase in the same way as officers assigned to ships, planets, ground units, etc.. When a bonus increases in this way, the rating of his team will be increased by the same amount. This replaces the current method by which teams improve their ratings. Cybernetic Teams and Archaeological Teams have both been replaced by a new Xenoarchaeological Team which effectively performs both roles of the old team types.
Ruins have been changed slightly in v3.3. Instead of Abandoned Mines and Abandoned Factories there are now just Abandoned Installations, which cover both of the previous categories. In addition, the discovery of new tech systems is no longer a separate function to the recovery of installations and there is no longer an exploitation chance. Instead, every time a research facility is recovered there is a 20% chance that a tech system will also be learned. Each time a team makes a successfull recovery roll for an Abandoned Installation, there is a chance they will find the installation is beyond repair. In this case no recovery will take place and the number of Abandoned Installations will be reduced by 1. The chance of this happening is equal to 200 - Xenoarchaeological Team Rating. So on average a team with a rating of 100 will only successfully recover half of the Abandoned Installations. A a team with a rating of 140 will successfully recover approximately seventy percent of the Abandoned Installations. When all Abandoned Installations on a planet have been recovered or lost, the ruins will be classed as exploited and removed from the planet.
Steve
Post by: sloanjh on December 27, 2008, 12:36:48 PM
Quote from: "SteveAlt"
The chance of this happening is equal to 200 - Xenoarchaeological Team Rating.
Um - I hope that's actually "(200-Xenoarchaeological Team Rating)/2".
John
PS - Sounds good. Do SY show up as abandoned orbital installations?
Post by: Erik L on December 27, 2008, 03:39:06 PM
I'd prefer to see just "installations" with no indicator of orbital or not, unless you add in additional orbital facilities.
Perhaps make any installation (with the exception of mines) have an orbital option for an additional cost. Say a 20% surcharge.
Post by: SteveAlt on December 27, 2008, 05:41:30 PM
Quote from: "sloanjh"
Oops! It is as written but I am rolling it as a random number from 1-200Quote from: "SteveAlt"The chance of this happening is equal to 200 - Xenoarchaeological Team Rating.Um - I hope that's actually "(200-Xenoarchaeological Team Rating)/2".
Quote
PS - Sounds good. Do SY show up as abandoned orbital installations?I haven't decided yet. I think that would be the most realistic though. There would be a very limited number and I would make it much harder to recover them than ground-based installations. I'll post some numbers when I have given it more thought.
Steve
Post by: SteveAlt on December 27, 2008, 05:47:20 PM
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
If SY show as orbital installations, then just the fact of having X number of orbital installations is a giveaway of how many shipyards are potentially available, since there are no other orbital installations.That might not be a problem, especially if I make them hard to recover, which means you might not recover them at alll. Knowing how many there may be is not much different than the existing abandoned mines. However, I might throw in some other orbiting items such as wrecks or perhaps even abandoned precursor spacecraft. Most would be reasonably mundane such as terraformers, fuel harvesters, freighters, etc. but think how much fun you could have with a recovered precursor warship
. You could use it to threaten your enemies or scrap it in an attempt to learn its secrets.Steve
Post by: schroeam on December 27, 2008, 07:35:52 PM
Quote from: "SteveAlt"
Cybernetic Teams and Archaeological Teams have both been replaced by a new Xenoarchaeological Team which effectively performs both roles of the old team types.
Steve
Do the archeological and cybernetic bonuses both affect the teams rating cumulatively, or is the highest bonus used if an officer has both?
Adam.
Post by: Erik L on December 27, 2008, 08:31:39 PM
Quote from: "adradjool"
Quote from: "SteveAlt"Cybernetic Teams and Archaeological Teams have both been replaced by a new Xenoarchaeological Team which effectively performs both roles of the old team types.
Steve
Do the archeological and cybernetic bonuses both affect the teams rating cumulatively, or is the highest bonus used if an officer has both?
Adam.
I would presume that the skills would be combined into one Xenoarchaeology skill.
Post by: Haegan2005 on December 28, 2008, 12:18:48 AM
Post by: Shinanygnz on December 28, 2008, 11:18:56 AM
Either way, glad this is in now.
Thanks
Stephen
Post by: SteveAlt on December 29, 2008, 06:21:42 AM
Quote from: "Shinanygnz"
I remember convincing you that this was a go-er a bit ago (as you'd previously been reluctant to make it easy to make & break teams) with the idea a team gained experience like a task force and when an officer was assigned away, the team would suffer a drop in accrued XP. Any plans to add this?The officers gain experience now rather than the team so the team skill is a total of the officers skills. When an officer leaves the team skill is reduced accordingly.
I was concerned about making it too easy to have lots of teams. However, with the changes to ruins there are now good reasons not to use inexperienced teams for diplomacy, espionage, geology and xenoarchaeology so too many teams is no longer a problem.
Steve
Post by: SteveAlt on December 29, 2008, 06:22:51 AM
Quote from: "adradjool"
Those bonuses have been replaced by a xenoarchaeology bonusQuote from: "SteveAlt"Cybernetic Teams and Archaeological Teams have both been replaced by a new Xenoarchaeological Team which effectively performs both roles of the old team types.Do the archeological and cybernetic bonuses both affect the teams rating cumulatively, or is the highest bonus used if an officer has both?
Steve
Post by: SteveAlt on December 29, 2008, 06:24:29 AM
Quote from: "Haegan2005"
Why name them xenoarcheologists? the name only really covers part of the units description. What about xenoresearchers or XenoCybernetist? On the flip side, I don't lose my officers to the teams on a permanent basis anymore.I went for the name because their job is to explore and study alien ruins but I am not particularly attached to it. If there is a general player consensus on a better name I would be happy to change it.
Steve
Post by: Erik L on December 29, 2008, 02:53:13 PM
Quote from: "SteveAlt"
Quote from: "Haegan2005"Why name them xenoarcheologists? the name only really covers part of the units description. What about xenoresearchers or XenoCybernetist? On the flip side, I don't lose my officers to the teams on a permanent basis anymore.I went for the name because their job is to explore and study alien ruins but I am not particularly attached to it. If there is a general player consensus on a better name I would be happy to change it.
Steve
XenoResearcher? XenoTechnologist?
Post by: Haegan2005 on December 29, 2008, 08:55:02 PM
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
Quote from: "SteveAlt"Quote from: "Haegan2005"Why name them xenoarcheologists? the name only really covers part of the units description. What about xenoresearchers or XenoCybernetist? On the flip side, I don't lose my officers to the teams on a permanent basis anymore.I went for the name because their job is to explore and study alien ruins but I am not particularly attached to it. If there is a general player consensus on a better name I would be happy to change it.
Steve
XenoResearcher? XenoTechnologist?
I like the XenoResearcher.
Post by: schroeam on December 29, 2008, 09:22:26 PM
Adam.
Post by: Erik L on December 29, 2008, 09:50:25 PM
Post by: welchbloke on December 30, 2008, 10:54:51 AM
Welchbloke
Post by: Sotak246 on December 30, 2008, 08:50:45 PM
Mark
Post by: Steve Walmsley on December 31, 2008, 08:59:19 AM
Steve
Post by: jfelten on February 02, 2009, 05:25:22 AM
Is it normal to find "useless" ruins? I found a ruined outpost:
19th October 2031 18:05:06,Romulan,Agrippina,Ruined Outpost - PortBlair Republic found on Agrippina-A IV
Sent both an archeological and cybernetic teams there. Three years later I finally received a message that the ruins had been exploited:
9th September 2034 20:05:06,Romulan,Agrippina,Ruins have been exploited on Agrippina-A IV
However, unlike prior ruins found, no "Abandoned Mines" or "Abandoned Factories" appeared there and so far the cybernetic team has done nothing. Was this one just randomly a total bust? Was it a mistake to send both archeological and cybernetic teams at the same time?
Perhaps it is just coincidence but I found ruins in 2 of the 4 systems adjacent to the home system early on. Then for the next 40 or so systems explored I found no ruins. Finally I find this 3rd set of ruins 4 jumps from the home system but it turns out to be empty. Do ruins normally mostly happen hear the home system or is this just all random chance?
Post by: ZimRathbone on February 02, 2009, 06:36:09 AM
Quote from: "jfelten"
This is for 3.2 ruins but I didn't see a better topic to place this question under.
Is it normal to find "useless" ruins? I found a ruined outpost:
19th October 2031 18:05:06,Romulan,Agrippina,Ruined Outpost - PortBlair Republic found on Agrippina-A IV
Sent both an archeological and cybernetic teams there. Three years later I finally received a message that the ruins had been exploited:
9th September 2034 20:05:06,Romulan,Agrippina,Ruins have been exploited on Agrippina-A IV
However, unlike prior ruins found, no "Abandoned Mines" or "Abandoned Factories" appeared there and so far the cybernetic team has done nothing. Was this one just randomly a total bust? Was it a mistake to send both archeological and cybernetic teams at the same time?
Perhaps it is just coincidence but I found ruins in 2 of the 4 systems adjacent to the home system early on. Then for the next 40 or so systems explored I found no ruins. Finally I find this 3rd set of ruins 4 jumps from the home system but it turns out to be empty. Do ruins normally mostly happen hear the home system or is this just all random chance?
Its random. In one game I found an "abandoned intact cities" ruin that researched out after only two turns (and that with an Arch team rated at 120!) - needless to say I got no new tech there.
Arch teams find Tech, Cyber teams reactivate installations.
The number of abandoned installtions is determined at the point of generating the ruin, and is generally proportionate to the size of the ruin - I would not be surpised to see no installtions on an Outpost - also note that there is a much bigger chance of reseaching out the smaller ruins, and also the lower the Arch team skill, the greater the chance of researching out.
Note that in 3.3 the XenoArch teams cover both functions
Cheers
Post by: Father Tim on February 02, 2009, 01:33:06 PM
Post by: welchbloke on February 02, 2009, 03:35:36 PM
Quote from: "Father Tim"
This may be an actual bug. After liberally sprinkling dozens of ruins around, I noticed that not one Outpost had any abandoned installations. I can't remember (or find) the list of ruin sizes, so I'm not sure if this is intended or not.In anothor thread Steve listed tthem as:
Destroyed Outpost
Ruined Outpost
Ruined Settlement
Ruined Colony
Ruined City
Damaged Installation
Abandoned Installation
Partially Intact City
Deserted Intact City
Deserted Intact Cities
Post by: welchbloke on February 02, 2009, 03:39:08 PM
Post by: Father Tim on February 03, 2009, 04:12:34 AM
Post by: IanD on September 25, 2009, 08:23:58 AM
Quote from: "Father Tim"
Sure: 20% when you recover a research facility. Ruins are exploited when there are no 'Abandoned Installations' left to be reactivated. (For 4.0 that is.)
Sure: 20% when you recover a research facility. Ruins are exploited when there are no 'Abandoned Installations' left to be reactivated. (For 4.0 that is.)
But what's the chance to recover a research laboratory? Over two games I have attempted to recover 300+ installations. I have only recovered 4-5 research laboratories and no tech (but at a 20% chance that's OK). Having said that I have only recovered two ground unit training facilities, (both in my current 4.26 game) and one shipyard.
Mines (both types), construction, ordnance and fighter installations, maintenance facilities, fuel refineries, mass drivers, deep space tracking stations and terraforming installations all show up regularly. Never seen financial centre, spaceport, sector HQ, naval academy, no good reason why I should.
Regards
Post by: Steve Walmsley on September 26, 2009, 09:48:32 AM
Quote from: "IanD"
The random selection table in v4.3 ia as follows:Quote from: "Father Tim"Sure: 20% when you recover a research facility. Ruins are exploited when there are no 'Abandoned Installations' left to be reactivated. (For 4.0 that is.)
Sure: 20% when you recover a research facility. Ruins are exploited when there are no 'Abandoned Installations' left to be reactivated. (For 4.0 that is.)
But what's the chance to recover a research laboratory? Over two games I have attempted to recover 300+ installations. I have only recovered 4-5 research laboratories and no tech (but at a 20% chance that's OK). Having said that I have only recovered two ground unit training facilities, (both in my current 4.26 game) and one shipyard.
Mines (both types), construction, ordnance and fighter installations, maintenance facilities, fuel refineries, mass drivers, deep space tracking stations and terraforming installations all show up regularly. Never seen financial centre, spaceport, sector HQ, naval academy, no good reason why I should.
1-11 Minerals
12-15 Missiles
16-17 Mass Driver
18-22 Maintenance Facility
23-37 Construction Factory
38-45 Ordnance Factory
46-49 Fighter Factory
50 Spaceport
51-57 Fuel Refinery
58-71 Infrastructure
72-76 Tracking Station
77-82 Research Facility
83-87 Terraforming
88-94 Fuel
95-96 Ground Force Training Facility
97 Duranium
98 Neutronium
99 Sorium
100 Shipyard
So double chance for Duranium/Neutronium/Sorium as 1-11 is random mineral
I am still not completely happy with ruins though. Now I have seriously thinking about trying to put together an Aurora novel that a non-player could read, the concept of five guys restoring all the ancient alien installations does seem a little far-fetched. I can see a few options.
1) Mechanics as now but Ruins yield a far smaller set of 'rewards'. Probably minerals, fuel, missiles, infrastructure and tech - maybe automated mines too as it shouldn't matter if they are alien
2) Same list as now but only minerals, fuel, missles and infrastructure are actually recovered. Everything else is classed as investigated rather than recovered and yields tech points in the appropriate fields (I think someone has suggested something similar in the past)
3) Similar rewards as now but they are recovered by a new type of ground forces division (Alien Investigation Unit?) instead of a team. Or maybe the existing Engineer Division type. The division morale would be serve the same function as the current team rating and would be boosted by the Xenology bonus of the division commander. Morale would improve with experience. A few thousand engineers and scientists crawling over an ruined alien civilization might actually be able to recover installations.
I am open to other suggestions. I want to try and keep the 'treasure chest' aspect but find some way of making it more plausible than at present.
Steve
Post by: Sotak246 on September 26, 2009, 10:44:43 AM
Post by: schroeam on September 26, 2009, 11:54:07 AM
Adam.
Post by: mavikfelna on September 26, 2009, 03:32:03 PM
--Mav
Post by: welchbloke on September 26, 2009, 04:19:56 PM
Post by: Steve Walmsley on September 26, 2009, 10:38:22 PM
Quote from: "welchbloke"
I'd like to add my voice to the chorus. I think this would be a good use for engineering divisions as well. I'd also like to see your option 2 merged in but with automated mines added. I find the idea of making an alien shipyard work after however many thousands of years a little implausible.Sounds like the consensus is to use an engineering division to restore alien installations, probably using the xenology bonus of its commander to modify the chance of a successful recovery. The trick will be finding a way to differentiate between engineers restoring alien facilities and engineers involved in construction but I can probably do that with a flag on the Ground Forces window.
Now as to what can actually be restored. I don't think anyone would have a problem with minerals, fuel, infrastructure and automated mines. Probably missiles are OK too. A commercial spaceport is OK as that would be like capturing an airbase but I agree that intact shipyards are probably too much. Restoring tracking stations and mass drivers might be possible as their function is relatively simple and therefore and the same applies to terraforming installations. Even maintenance facilities could be thought of as a port so they could be recoverable. The big question is over construction/ordnance/fighter factories, fuel refineries and research faciltiies.
A further couple of points first though. I think everyone has a different idea of how old the ruins are. If our own civilization fell into ruin and was discovered thousands of years later then it's likely not very much at all would be recoverable. if it was discovered a hundred years later, then alien visitors could probably recover quite a lot. I have never really defined how old the Precursors are so perhaps I need to do that before we can create a reasonable solution. We can take a realistic approach based on the age of the galaxy and the possible lifetime of technological civilizations, in which case any ruins would likely be millions of years old. Or we could take a Star Trek, Babylon V or even Starfire approach where most races are relatively even in technical development (with the occasional exceptions such as the Organians or Vorlons). In the latter case, the ruins may only be centuries or even just decades old, which would also make the robotic ships more believable too. In fact, Aurora assumes that situation already becaue the NPRs are relatively even in tech, which indicates they probably evolved on a similar timescale to humans.
How about this scenario? The Precursors are an ancient race that decided to eliminate all other intelligent species in the galaxy. Reluctant to leave their planet, they built their robotic ships to do their bidding and sent them out into space on that mission, preventing any space-capable civilization from expanding into the universe and beocming a threat. The precursor ships found in orbit are therefore the ships that actually caused the destruction of the population below and the ruins are from a wide variety of different species. A century ago, some disaster befell the precursor homeworld (plague, rogue ships, etc.) and it was laid waste. The robotic ships out in the galaxy had no one to command them so they held their positions, continuing with their last orders to destroy any intelligent species. In the century since the demise of the precursors, intelligent species have finally been able to expand into space without interference and that is why they are all relatively equal in terms of tech and why the ruins are not very old.
An alternative scenario is that the precursor civilization was benign and widespread and had brought many other species into a huge pan-galactic empire. As new species demonstrated an ability to travel between stars, they were contacted and became part of the precursor domain (a benevolent Hre'Drak). A century ago, a virulent and deadly plague spread throughout the galaxy, completly wiping out most of the precursor species and sending the survivors into mini dark ages but leaving much of the planetary facilities intact. Those desolate worlds are now the ruin sites and the plague explains why the structures are relatively intact (maybe we call them 'abandoned worlds' instead of 'ruins' in the case of this scenario). Some warship commanders, realising their imminent demise, put their ships on automatic with orders to defend their homeworlds.
Either of those scenarios could provide a reason for relatively recent ruins with a good chance of restoring installations, at least from a physical perspective. I guess the real trick would be deceiphering the alien language and control systems so you could operate them. Assuming the ruins are from multiple species, perhaps each ruin is checked to see if it matches a species from another ruin or is a new 'dead' species. A new research project could be generated for each dead species that would allow you to understand their language and control systems. Completing that research would be necessary before you could restore installations. Or better still, the Xenology Team is retained but with a new mission. Before engineers can begin restoring installations, the Xenology Team must study those ruins until they learn enough about the alien species to permit recovery to begin. The Xenology team becomes the brains that learns to understand the aliens then the engineer divisions can get to work on the recovery. The length of time it would take the Xenology Team would be randomised and unknown to the player until it was completed, but it would depend heavily on the team skill. How does that sound? If a second ruin site from the same alien race is found, the Xenology Team would be unnecesary.
Steve
Post by: schroeam on September 27, 2009, 01:14:18 AM
Seems to have the right feel to it.
Adam.
Post by: Sotak246 on September 27, 2009, 10:39:03 AM
Mark
Post by: Shinanygnz on September 27, 2009, 10:40:38 AM
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
<snip>
Either of those scenarios could provide a reason for relatively recent ruins with a good chance of restoring installations, at least from a physical perspective. I guess the real trick would be deceiphering the alien language and control systems so you could operate them. Assuming the ruins are from multiple species, perhaps each ruin is checked to see if it matches a species from another ruin or is a new 'dead' species. A new research project could be generated for each dead species that would allow you to understand their language and control systems. Completing that research would be necessary before you could restore installations. Or better still, the Xenology Team is retained but with a new mission. Before engineers can begin restoring installations, the Xenology Team must study those ruins until they learn enough about the alien species to permit recovery to begin. The Xenology team becomes the brains that learns to understand the aliens then the engineer divisions can get to work on the recovery. The length of time it would take the Xenology Team would be randomised and unknown to the player until it was completed, but it would depend heavily on the team skill. How does that sound? If a second ruin site from the same alien race is found, the Xenology Team would be unnecesary.
Steve
I like this plan.
Stephen
Post by: ShadoCat on September 27, 2009, 11:08:25 AM
First, the genocidal Precursor is more believable. Why would a benign race choose to set their ships to exterminate anyone who might find the ruins of their civilization? Wouldn't they put up beacons and say: look at out culture, learn from it and continue our ways?
Now, you could argue that the ships were set to automatic to quarantine the planet and shoot down anyone who might land and spread the plague. However, this scenario assumes that this decision was made soon enough that they thought that they could contain the plague. So, why couldn't they? Also, why destroy any ship in the system? Why hunt down ships that go through WPs and destroy planets when none of the ships they saw came near the "plague planet"?
However, from a game play perspective, it might be better to justify the plague scenario. That way the ruins can be as old as you wish since super advanced Precursors could build to last.
OTOH, a problem with the genocidal Precursors is: what was the trigger tech level? The Precursors have to have been dead long enough for humans to have missed the trigger.
Maybe it isn't a tech level. Maybe they made regular sweeps through the galaxy. That would mean that they wiped planets in our local area all at the same time. That would mean that as you when in one direction, civilizations would get progressively older and in the other they would get progressively younger. This is the Dahak scenario. This leads to the possibility that the Precursor fleet will sweep through once again. Maybe the remains of the fleet. If the Precursors set this in motion but feel to their own fleet. Then no more ships would be built. Each sweep through, there would be fewer and fewer ships. This could be why some ships were left behind. They were damaged and couldn't keep up. They held position and self repaired. They will meet up with the fleet on its next sweep.
Post by: mavikfelna on September 27, 2009, 02:33:30 PM
--Mav
Post by: Beersatron on September 27, 2009, 02:58:51 PM
Actually thinking about it some more, surely a Shipyard would be noticeable on the first orbit of the planet since they are in orbit themselves? A Xenologist team would be working on the planet, no?
Post by: IanD on September 28, 2009, 08:32:47 AM
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Sounds like the consensus is to use an engineering division to restore alien installations, probably using the xenology bonus of its commander to modify the chance of a successful recovery. The trick will be finding a way to differentiate between engineers restoring alien facilities and engineers involved in construction but I can probably do that with a flag on the Ground Forces window.
I like this idea, but have always assumed the teams were just finding and translating the instruction manual for intact installation, which had just been switched off.
Edit. You could combine the two. Have the Xeno team identify what the installations were, recover any new tech, then have the Engineering division try and reactivate them. This may just multiply your programming headaches though.
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
The big question is over construction/ordnance/fighter factories, fuel refineries and research facilities.
I like the idea of recovering fighter factories as I usually start without them and treat them as a new tech, not normally researching or building them until I find some.
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
I think everyone has a different idea of how old the ruins are.
Yes, my take has been the Precursors built for permanence and some maintenance facilities are still working or there would only be earth mounds left. Thus thousands rather than hundreds of years (read too many Andre Norton books as a kid
). The ships have a sophisticated AI that can tell whether there are crew aboard, state of health etc and have a set of standing instructions. E.g. do not let unrecognised spacecraft that do not transmit friendly IFF approach planet, listening post, location without senior officer expressly permitting it. Thus they default into hostile mode.
Regards
Post by: IanD on September 28, 2009, 08:55:23 AM
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
The Xenology team becomes the brains that learns to understand the aliens then the engineer divisions can get to work on the recovery. The length of time it would take the Xenology Team would be randomised and unknown to the player until it was completed, but it would depend heavily on the team skill. How does that sound? If a second ruin site from the same alien race is found, the Xenology Team would be unnecesary.
Note to self. Read all of a post before jumping in with both feet
. In previous versions ruins used to have a name of the vanished race against them and I thought gave a bonus on the recovery of similar ruins, I miss the fluff. On a related note when you recover old ship wrecks in a precursor system it would be nice to get told what race they were and whether weapons fire destroyed the ship(s). Thus the site of a battle becomes more obvious, but what you don't know is how recent the battle was except by a research project. Eg dating of wrecks salvaged in xyz system.Regards
Post by: IanD on September 28, 2009, 10:01:23 AM
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
The random selection table in v4.3 ia as follows:
1-11 Minerals
12-15 Missiles
16-17 Mass Driver
18-22 Maintenance Facility
23-37 Construction Factory
38-45 Ordnance Factory
46-49 Fighter Factory
50 Spaceport
51-57 Fuel Refinery
58-71 Infrastructure
72-76 Tracking Station
77-82 Research Facility
83-87 Terraforming
88-94 Fuel
95-96 Ground Force Training Facility
97 Duranium
98 Neutronium
99 Sorium
100 Shipyard
So double chance for Duranium/Neutronium/Sorium as 1-11 is random mineral
So are mines part of minerals? as I certainly recover quite a few?
Regards
Post by: Steve Walmsley on September 28, 2009, 01:24:12 PM
Quote from: "IanD"
So are mines part of minerals? as I certainly recover quite a few?Oops - I missed 101-150 Mines and 151-200 Automated Mines
Steve
Post by: welchbloke on September 28, 2009, 04:07:47 PM
Quote from: "mavikfelna"
If the ruins are as young as you're saying, then everything should be recoverable, even shipyards.The shipyards are orbital in this version of the game (IIRC). As a result, if the shipyards are abandoned (for this I read derelict - no working systems) then whether the shipyard is still there after a century, leaving aside micrometeorite damage etc, is down to what orbit it is in. There are plenty of orbits that take more than a century to decay, but I don't see any race using them. Why put the shipyard further away from the planet and increase your fuel and time overheads? There are plenty of fluff reasons that could explain the ability to restore the ground based facilities but I baulk at the idea of an orbitting shipyard surviving for a century.
--Mav
Post by: welchbloke on September 28, 2009, 04:29:13 PM
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
How about this scenario? The Precursors are an ancient race that decided to eliminate all other intelligent species in the galaxy. Reluctant to leave their planet, they built their robotic ships to do their bidding and sent them out into space on that mission, preventing any space-capable civilization from expanding into the universe and beocming a threat. The precursor ships found in orbit are therefore the ships that actually caused the destruction of the population below and the ruins are from a wide variety of different species. A century ago, some disaster befell the precursor homeworld (plague, rogue ships, etc.) and it was laid waste. The robotic ships out in the galaxy had no one to command them so they held their positions, continuing with their last orders to destroy any intelligent species. In the century since the demise of the precursors, intelligent species have finally been able to expand into space without interference and that is why they are all relatively equal in terms of tech and why the ruins are not very old.Personally I like the xenocidal precursor scenario. It makes them feel like a constant threat that can't be be reasoned with, can't be ignored and will fight to the last
Either of those scenarios could provide a reason for relatively recent ruins with a good chance of restoring installations, at least from a physical perspective. I guess the real trick would be deceiphering the alien language and control systems so you could operate them. Assuming the ruins are from multiple species, perhaps each ruin is checked to see if it matches a species from another ruin or is a new 'dead' species. A new research project could be generated for each dead species that would allow you to understand their language and control systems. Completing that research would be necessary before you could restore installations. Or better still, the Xenology Team is retained but with a new mission. Before engineers can begin restoring installations, the Xenology Team must study those ruins until they learn enough about the alien species to permit recovery to begin. The Xenology team becomes the brains that learns to understand the aliens then the engineer divisions can get to work on the recovery. The length of time it would take the Xenology Team would be randomised and unknown to the player until it was completed, but it would depend heavily on the team skill. How does that sound? If a second ruin site from the same alien race is found, the Xenology Team would be unnecesary.
Steve
The changed role for the Xenology team leadiong the research and then handing over to the engineers sits well with me. Wasn't there a similar concept/organisation in Babylon 5?