Post by: alexwildstar on July 15, 2009, 07:44:43 PM
I was building a 16k ton ship and could only fit three missle launchers and five dual 20 or 30 cm laster turrets or maybe it was rail gun.
But in general I just trying to figure out what is normal and am i building to small or two big of stuff. So what is kind of the norm you guys have found
Post by: Erik L on July 15, 2009, 09:30:22 PM
For missile sizes, I tend to go Size 1 for Anti-missle (AMM).
For ship-killers, Size 3-4 is a Light Missile, 5-7 is Medium, 8-12 is Heavy. Size 12+ are reserved for capital ships and/or PDCs.
I also tend to build specialized ships. Missile ships will have at most 1 5 sec recharge quad turret for PD. Beam ships will have no missiles at all.
The "Enterprise" method of shipbuilding does not lend itself well to Aurora. This method is each ship should be self-sufficient and shoot beam, missiles and PD with equal facility.
Turrets really should be relegated to a purely PD role (in my opinion), which means usually nothing larger than a 10-12cm bore. The 15+cm are hull mounted.
I hope these ramblings help you.
Post by: alexwildstar on July 15, 2009, 11:14:30 PM
Is it a good idea to put one or two missle on a beam heavy ship.
Also on my 16k toon ship i was having a tough time getting it annual break down below thirty percent without just throwing on ton of enginering. this is my big boy atm any major flaws
Test1 class Cruiser 16000 tons 2571 Crew 13117 BP TCS 320 TH 1500 EM 60
4687 km/s Armour 1-56 Shields 2-300 Sensors 66/66/0/0 Damage Control Rating 92 PPV 169
Annual Failure Rate: 33% IFR: 0.5% Maintenance Capacity 32760 MSP Max Repair 1800 MSP
Magazine 4
Gas Core Anti-matter Drive E2.5 (6) Power 250 Efficiency 0.25 Signature 250 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres Range 22.5 billion km (55 days at full power)
Delta R300/6.25 Shields (1) Total Fuel Cost 6 Litres per day
Twin 10cm C16 Far Ultraviolet Laser Turret (6x2) Range 150,000km TS: 10000 km/s Power 6-32 RM 5 ROF 5 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 1 1
Twin 25cm C16 Far Ultraviolet Laser Turret (5x2) Range 800,000km TS: 10000 km/s Power 32-32 RM 5 ROF 5 16 16 16 16 16 13 11 10 8 8
40cm Railgun V8/C16 (3x4) Range 960,000km TS: 20000 km/s Power 36-16 RM 8 ROF 15 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 10 9
Fire Control S04 600-20000 (2) Max Range: 1,200,000 km TS: 20000 km/s 99 98 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 92
Size 1 Missile Launcher (4) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 10
Active Search Sensor S240-R63 (1) GPS 15120 Range 151.2m km Resolution 63
Thermal Sensor TH6-66 (1) Sensitivity 66 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 66m km
EM Detection Sensor EM6-66 (1) Sensitivity 66 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 66m km
ECCM-5 (1) ECM 50
Post by: alexwildstar on July 16, 2009, 01:25:46 AM
President class Carrier 18400 tons 1961 Crew 8231.5 BP TCS 73.6 TH 1500 EM 60
4076 km/s Armour 1-62 Shields 2-300 Sensors 66/66/0/0 Damage Control Rating 171 PPV 65
Annual Failure Rate: 38% IFR: 0.5% Maintenance Capacity 19854 MSP Max Repair 1800 MSP
Hangar Deck Capacity 6000 tons
Gas Core Anti-matter Drive E2.5 (6) Power 250 Efficiency 0.25 Signature 250 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres Range 19.6 billion km (55 days at full power)
Delta R300/6.25 Shields (1) Total Fuel Cost 6 Litres per day
Twin 10cm C16 Far Ultraviolet Laser Turret (5x2) Range 150,000km TS: 10000 km/s Power 6-32 RM 5 ROF 5 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 1 1
Gauss Cannon R5-100 (5x5) Range 50,000km TS: 20000 km/s Accuracy Modifier 100% RM 5 ROF 5 1 1 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
Fire Control S04 600-20000 (1) Max Range: 1,200,000 km TS: 20000 km/s 99 98 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 92
Fire Control S04 150-80000 (1) Max Range: 300,000 km TS: 80000 km/s 97 93 90 87 83 80 77 73 70 67
Thermal Sensor TH6-66 (1) Sensitivity 66 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 66m km
EM Detection Sensor EM6-66 (1) Sensitivity 66 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 66m km
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 20% of normal
ECCM-5 (1) ECM 50
Post by: Erik L on July 16, 2009, 03:37:26 AM
Quote from: "alexwildstar"
Thanks alot that does help. I was just sitting down to build some some stuff and playing with the system. I completely cheated and gave myself a bazzilion reasearch points so i have research up to 40 cm laster with all the goodies.
Is it a good idea to put one or two missle on a beam heavy ship.
Also on my 16k toon ship i was having a tough time getting it annual break down below thirty percent without just throwing on ton of enginering. this is my big boy atm any major flaws
Test1 class Cruiser 16000 tons 2571 Crew 13117 BP TCS 320 TH 1500 EM 60
4687 km/s Armour 1-56 Shields 2-300 Sensors 66/66/0/0 Damage Control Rating 92 PPV 169
Annual Failure Rate: 33% IFR: 0.5% Maintenance Capacity 32760 MSP Max Repair 1800 MSP
Magazine 4
Gas Core Anti-matter Drive E2.5 (6) Power 250 Efficiency 0.25 Signature 250 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres Range 22.5 billion km (55 days at full power)
Delta R300/6.25 Shields (1) Total Fuel Cost 6 Litres per day
Twin 10cm C16 Far Ultraviolet Laser Turret (6x2) Range 150,000km TS: 10000 km/s Power 6-32 RM 5 ROF 5 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 1 1
Twin 25cm C16 Far Ultraviolet Laser Turret (5x2) Range 800,000km TS: 10000 km/s Power 32-32 RM 5 ROF 5 16 16 16 16 16 13 11 10 8 8
40cm Railgun V8/C16 (3x4) Range 960,000km TS: 20000 km/s Power 36-16 RM 8 ROF 15 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 10 9
Fire Control S04 600-20000 (2) Max Range: 1,200,000 km TS: 20000 km/s 99 98 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 92
Size 1 Missile Launcher (4) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 10
Active Search Sensor S240-R63 (1) GPS 15120 Range 151.2m km Resolution 63
Thermal Sensor TH6-66 (1) Sensitivity 66 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 66m km
EM Detection Sensor EM6-66 (1) Sensitivity 66 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 66m km
ECCM-5 (1) ECM 50
55 days is REALLY short legged. With your fire control, you can target 2 targets at once, and the range is way over-done for the weapons. Your magazine can hold 4(?) missiles, and you have no corresponding fire control. Your shielding will stop 2 pts of damage and then they are down. And take 5 minutes to regenerate. The armor is also paper thin. Any decent shipkiller missile will do internal damage on the first hit.
Think of what role you want the ship to perform. Long range missile platform? Point-defense escort? Heavy assault ship? I personally would class this ship as a beam escort for missile ships, and strip out the missile launcher. Possibly add another FC or two. And definitely increase the fuel capacity. I'd cut the maintenance in half, if not more. 32k maintenance supplies, that's a lot of spare parts. Increase the shields to 5-10 or more, pump the armor to 5+. Maybe re-engineer some of the electronics to be smaller.
You'd need to develop a design philosphy. Heavy armor, middling shields, weapon x for PD, weapon y for direct fire, missile size a/b/c with corresponding launchers. And then pick a system, and build a ship around it. 10 missile of size b. 15 weapon x PD systems. 10 weapon y batteries. And so on.
Your carrier has some of the same issues as the cruiser. Not enough shields and armor. Not enough fuel. I personally feel that a carrier's main weapons are the fighters. Any ship-mounted systems are pure PD class. You don't specify your fighters, so no idea what size they are, but you can only carry 12 500 ton heavy fighters. If that is okay with your Bureau of Ship Design and the Admiralty, then go for it. Mine would not stand for it though
Post by: welchbloke on July 16, 2009, 06:13:54 AM
The Fleet needs short range missile defence - build some ships with fast tracking PD turrets and tracking sensors to match.
The Fleet needs long range missile defence - build ships with Anti-missile missile launchers and sensors to match. Make sure they have enough magazine space to fire at least 20 volleys (this would be defined by your design philosophy).
The Fleet needs long range missile capability - build some long range missile firing ships
etc etc
As Erik has mentioned pick a design philosophy and build your fleet around it (don't forget that your technology will be a major driver as well).
Post by: Hawkeye on July 16, 2009, 10:35:09 AM
Quote from: "alexwildstar"
Test1 class Cruiser 16000 tons 2571 Crew 13117 BP TCS 320 TH 1500 EM 60
4687 km/s Armour 1-56 Shields 2-300 Sensors 66/66/0/0 Damage Control Rating 92 PPV 169
Annual Failure Rate: 33% IFR: 0.5% Maintenance Capacity 32760 MSP Max Repair 1800 MSP
Magazine 4
Gas Core Anti-matter Drive E2.5 (6) Power 250 Efficiency 0.25 Signature 250 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 50,000 Litres Range 22.5 billion km (55 days at full power)
Delta R300/6.25 Shields (1) Total Fuel Cost 6 Litres per day
Twin 10cm C16 Far Ultraviolet Laser Turret (6x2) Range 150,000km TS: 10000 km/s Power 6-32 RM 5 ROF 5 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 1 1
Twin 25cm C16 Far Ultraviolet Laser Turret (5x2) Range 800,000km TS: 10000 km/s Power 32-32 RM 5 ROF 5 16 16 16 16 16 13 11 10 8 8
40cm Railgun V8/C16 (3x4) Range 960,000km TS: 20000 km/s Power 36-16 RM 8 ROF 15 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 10 9
Fire Control S04 600-20000 (2) Max Range: 1,200,000 km TS: 20000 km/s 99 98 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 92
Size 1 Missile Launcher (4) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 10
Active Search Sensor S240-R63 (1) GPS 15120 Range 151.2m km Resolution 63
Thermal Sensor TH6-66 (1) Sensitivity 66 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 66m km
EM Detection Sensor EM6-66 (1) Sensitivity 66 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 66m km
ECCM-5 (1) ECM 50
Ok, lets see.
As allready mentioned, your passives are pathetic, endurance is pretty low and missile launchers without reloads are not worth anything.
Given your engine tech, your ships also seem to be on the slow side of things (this is, of course, just IMO, but I have encountered several precursors and they regualarly pull 6000+ km/s). Being slower than the enemy is a serious tactical drawback!
Small Turrets:
Your PD-Turrets (assuming that is the role you intend for the 10cm turrets) have too slow tracking speed, as 10.000km/s will not be nearly enough. You usually want that as high as you can get.
The guns, you are mounting in them are also way over-engineered, as your are using capacitator tech level 16. You need only level 3 to reach the maximum ROF of 5 sec/shot, this makes your turrets unnecesarily expensive
There also doesen´t seem to be a dedicated PD targeting system. You want to match the PD targeting system to match the performance of your PD weapons as closely as possible, to utilise that performace in an optimal way, without wasting space and money on something that won´t help anyway (i.e. matching tracking speed and range)
With 6 turrets, I´d suggest at least 3 PD targeting systems.
Large Turrets:
Also allready mentioned, mounting heavy weapons into turrets will bring up weight and cost enormously. What are you going to engage with those beasts? The tracking speed is too slow for enemy missiles and probably enemy fighers as well (and be serious overkill anyway) but very likely too fast for anything else.
I don´t have a problem with the targetings systems range being 150% of the heavy lasers range, as enemy ECM can reduce the range of it, but the tracking speed of 20.000, when the turret can only track 10.000 is definitely wasted.
I just realized, your Railguns can track at 20.000km/s even being hull mounted. This means, you have researched 20.000km/s tracking speed. This in turn means, mounting your lasers into turrets the way you have, you have spent a lot of weight, minerals and money on a turret, that actually slowes your tracking speed down by 50%
I can´t tell from the top of my head, but capacitator tech-level is very likely also unnecessary high, so get it down to where you are just bearely able to shoot all 5 seconds.
Railguns:
Nothing to critizize here, realy
Missile launcher:
Those fire size-1 missiles, so they are probably used in a PD role.
Check the reload tech. Given the tech level of your other gadgets, it might be much higher than what is needed to reach minimum reload speed (10 second)
There is no missile fire control, so you can´t fire the missiles you have, which is all of 1 shot for each launcher.
You need to design magazins and put them on. You need tons and tons of PD-missiles!
Sensors:
You´ve got very good sensors.
Now, that´s not something bad, but if you intend to mass produce this baby, and put a bunch of them into a single squadron, it´s a lot of wasted mass, minerals and money. A dedicated scout or two per squadron and only just adequat sensor coverage on the combatants is probably the better way
Following are my current 3-class family of cruisers. Now, they are definitely not perfect, but they work (at least they do against the precursors I have encountered so far).
Code: [Select]
Bayern VI class Escort Cruiser 8000 tons 703 Crew 1920.92 BP TCS 160 TH 338.8 EM 0
6050 km/s Armour 4-35 Shields 0-0 Sensors 24/16/0/0 Damage Control Rating 4 PPV 19
Annual Failure Rate: 128% IFR: 1.8% Maintenance Capacity 600 MSP Max Repair 168 MSP
Magazine 391
MTU Typ 88 Magnet-Plasmatriebwerk (mil) (11) Power 88 Efficiency 0.84 Signature 30.8 Armour 0 Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres Range 53.6 billion km (102 days at full power)
Krupp 100mm L30/R5 Mesonenkanone 67 Zwillingsturm (1x2) Range 30,000km TS: 20000 km/s Power 6-6 RM 3 ROF 5 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Zuse AR 40/20 Feuerleitsystem (1) Max Range: 40,000 km TS: 20000 km/s 75 50 25 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Siemens Typ 6 Fusionsreaktor (1) Total Power Output 6 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Mauser Typ 1 Wespenflug ARR-Werfer (10) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 10
Zuse RFL-1,9B Anti-Raketen Feuerleitsystem (2) Range 1.9m km Resolution 1
Moskito IV ARR (391) Speed: 32,800 km/s End: 2.6m Range: 5.1m km WH: 1 Size: 1 TH: 371 / 223 / 111
Telefunken Zugspitze III Raketen Suchradar (1) GPS 168 Range 1.7m km Resolution 1
Telefunken Matterhorn II Suchradar (1) GPS 8000 Range 80.0m km Resolution 50
Bosch Typ 24 Wärmesensor (1) Sensitivity 24 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 24m km
Bosch Typ 16 EM Sensor (1) Sensitivity 16 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 16m km
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/sNote the 391 missiles, this cruiser can carry. And I have run dry on on several encounters with precursors when I brought 3 or 4 ot those facing a similar amount of precursor missile cruisers!
Code: [Select]
Heidenheim III class Cruiser 7950 tons 895 Crew 1809 BP TCS 159 TH 308 EM 0
5534 km/s Armour 7-35 Shields 0-0 Sensors 11/11/0/0 Damage Control Rating 4 PPV 48
Annual Failure Rate: 126% IFR: 1.8% Maintenance Capacity 569 MSP Max Repair 144 MSP
MTU Typ 88 Magnet-Plasmatriebwerk (mil) (10) Power 88 Efficiency 0.84 Signature 30.8 Armour 0 Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres Range 53.9 billion km (112 days at full power)
Rheinmetall 250mm L250/R25 Magnetkanone 71 (6x4) Range 250,000km TS: 5534 km/s Power 15-3 RM 5 ROF 25 5 5 5 5 5 4 3 3 2 2
Zuse AS 320/6 Feuerleitsystem (1) Max Range: 320,000 km TS: 6000 km/s 97 94 91 88 84 81 78 75 72 69
Siemens Typ 6 Fusionsreaktor (3) Total Power Output 18 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Telefunken Weser III Suchradar (1) GPS 2100 Range 21.0m km Resolution 50
Telefunken Hesselberg III Suchradar (1) GPS 21 Range 210k km Resolution 1
Bosch Typ 11 Wärmesensor (1) Sensitivity 11 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 11m km
Bosch Typ 11 EM Sensor (1) Sensitivity 11 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 11m km
ECCM-1 (1) Note: Magnetkanone = Railgun
This is a dedicated close-in-brawler and the armor shows it!
This design is not tested in combat yet, so I can only hope the armor lives up to the promises of Krupp, which produced it :)
A mix of 6 combat cruisers and 4 to 6 escort cruisers has worked for me, so far.
I will usually not mix close in brawlers with missile cruisers. They might be in the same task force, but will be put in two different squadrons
Each squadron will have at least one, preferably two scouts and I have been forced to accompany those squadrons with fuelers several times, because of their rather limited range of about 50 billon km.
Post by: alexwildstar on July 16, 2009, 01:45:09 PM
How do add more armor
For my engine tech what is a good speed.
What does annual faiulure rate mean I have loaded up a ton of enginering section to try and get it below 40 is that needed.
Ok this is my latest piece of work. I have taken some of your guys input and hopefully got a ship that is closer to leaving the designing board.
Do rail guns work off of missle fire control ? I know it low on armor but that just because i have not found where the armor is stashed in the ship designing que. The ten smaller lasers are for missles and fighter defense. Basically to serve the same role as 5 inchers did in WW2
Nautilus class Cruiser 21100 tons 2533 Crew 23574.7 BP TCS 84.4 TH 8100 EM 900
19194 km/s Armour 1-68 Shields 30-300 Sensors 48/48/0/0 Damage Control Rating 21 PPV 170
Annual Failure Rate: 3561% IFR: 49.5% Maintenance Capacity 698 MSP Max Repair 2625 MSP
Magazine 250
Plasma Core Anti-matter Drive E2 ARM-3 (27) Power 300 Efficiency 0.20 Signature 300 Armour 3 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 700,000 Litres Range 298.6 billion km (180 days at full power)
Xi R300/10 Shields (6) Total Fuel Cost 60 Litres per day
Twin 10cm C1.25 Soft X-ray Laser Turret (5x2) Range 180,000km TS: 250000 km/s Power 6-2 RM 6 ROF 15 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 2 1
45cm Railgun V7/C25 (10x4) Range 350,000km TS: 25000 km/s Power 48-25 RM 7 ROF 10 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 13 12 11
Fire Control S04 175-100000 (1) Max Range: 350,000 km TS: 100000 km/s 97 94 91 89 86 83 80 77 74 71
Plasma-core Anti-matter Power Plant Technology PB-1 AR-0 (5) Total Power Output 120 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Missile Fire Control FC100-R1 (30%) (1) Range 3.0m km Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor S600-R1 (1) GPS 600 Range 6.0m km Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor S600-R83 (1) GPS 49800 Range 498.0m km Resolution 83
Active Search Sensor S50-R1 (30%) (1) GPS 50 Range 500k km Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH6-48 (1) Sensitivity 48 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 48m km
EM Detection Sensor EM6-48 (1) Sensitivity 48 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 48m km
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 20% of normal
ECCM-9 (1) ECM 90
Post by: Hawkeye on July 16, 2009, 03:14:06 PM
Quote from: "alexwildstar"
thanks guys right now i can develop a philosopy as I just trying to figure out how to design ships. thank ya for your input now i can figure out how to fix those things. Also what size of antena do you guys use for point defense and ship to ship combat. I am going with the speed around 20k because that is what the computer auto designed for my pre generated ships so I figure that probally a base line for me.
How do add more armor
For my engine tech what is a good speed.
What does annual faiulure rate mean I have loaded up a ton of enginering section to try and get it below 40 is that needed.
Ok this is my latest piece of work. I have taken some of your guys input and hopefully got a ship that is closer to leaving the designing board.
Do rail guns work off of missle fire control ? I know it low on armor but that just because i have not found where the armor is stashed in the ship designing que. The ten smaller lasers are for missles and fighter defense. Basically to serve the same role as 5 inchers did in WW2
Nautilus class Cruiser 21100 tons 2533 Crew 23574.7 BP TCS 84.4 TH 8100 EM 900
19194 km/s Armour 1-68 Shields 30-300 Sensors 48/48/0/0 Damage Control Rating 21 PPV 170
Annual Failure Rate: 3561% IFR: 49.5% Maintenance Capacity 698 MSP Max Repair 2625 MSP
Magazine 250
Plasma Core Anti-matter Drive E2 ARM-3 (27) Power 300 Efficiency 0.20 Signature 300 Armour 3 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 700,000 Litres Range 298.6 billion km (180 days at full power)
Xi R300/10 Shields (6) Total Fuel Cost 60 Litres per day
Twin 10cm C1.25 Soft X-ray Laser Turret (5x2) Range 180,000km TS: 250000 km/s Power 6-2 RM 6 ROF 15 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 2 1
45cm Railgun V7/C25 (10x4) Range 350,000km TS: 25000 km/s Power 48-25 RM 7 ROF 10 16 16 16 16 16 16 16 13 12 11
Fire Control S04 175-100000 (1) Max Range: 350,000 km TS: 100000 km/s 97 94 91 89 86 83 80 77 74 71
Plasma-core Anti-matter Power Plant Technology PB-1 AR-0 (5) Total Power Output 120 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Missile Fire Control FC100-R1 (30%) (1) Range 3.0m km Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor S600-R1 (1) GPS 600 Range 6.0m km Resolution 1
Active Search Sensor S600-R83 (1) GPS 49800 Range 498.0m km Resolution 83
Active Search Sensor S50-R1 (30%) (1) GPS 50 Range 500k km Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH6-48 (1) Sensitivity 48 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 48m km
EM Detection Sensor EM6-48 (1) Sensitivity 48 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 48m km
Cloaking Device: Class cross-section reduced to 20% of normal
ECCM-9 (1) ECM 90
Boy this thing is FAST!
Never got that far on the tech tree ;). Tracking speed from both, turret and targeting system should be similar, because what counts is the slower of the two.
As for your active sensors. Holy hell, those got an awful lot of range!!!
For a purely beam armed ship, I would consider this serious overkill.
For PD Work, I usually try to put an active sensor capable of seeing out 3 to 4 times the pd-weapons range (with beam turrets in mind). As I mentioned in my above post, there will allways be a scout or two with longer ranged anti-missile-sensor around.
And your anti-ship-active...if only I could mount one of those in one of my scouts
Usually, I go for an active range, that reflects somewhat the range of my weapons. What´s the point, if my close in brawler can see an enemy from a range more than 1000 times that of my longest range weapon?
10 to 20 times weapons range for brawler, 2 to 3 times for missile ships seems more reasonable. Such a massive sensor on a scout, however, would be worth its mass in gold!
You also have to be aware, that the stronger your actives are, the longer the range an enemy with EM sensors can see you, once you go active. With this massive active sensor, you could probably be seen in earth orbit from Pluto.
Just out of curiosity, what IS the mass of this active sensor?
Oh, and it seems you are short on power.
Each of your railguns requires 25 power per 5 second increment
Each of your turrets requires 2 power per 5 second increment (you realy should have used capacitator 3 there to get ROF 5)
Total power use per 5 second increment: 260
Total power output from generators: 120
This means, on average, your weapons will fire slightly less than half as often as they could otherwise.
Post by: Erik L on July 16, 2009, 04:09:00 PM
Quote
Twin 10cm C1.25 Soft X-ray Laser Turret (5x2) Range 180,000km TS: 250000 km/s Power 6-2 RM 6 ROF 15 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 2 1I do hope that tracking speed is a typo. 250k tracking speed is just... way wrong.
Post by: alexwildstar on July 16, 2009, 04:23:28 PM
The active sensor is size six. I can not get into my reasearch page atmto look up it tonage It seems that sometimes when i exit the game i can not get back into my research page but I can open my ship design page an all my other tab except for the economy/pop/production one any ideas
Post by: welchbloke on July 16, 2009, 04:48:05 PM
Post by: Erik L on July 16, 2009, 04:52:54 PM
I think most of us here adhere to the "naval" doctrine of shipbuilding, i.e. each ship is designed for a specific role; as opposed to the "Enterprise" doctrine, which holds that each ship should be equally capable in ALL situations.
Post by: Paul M on July 17, 2009, 05:16:27 AM
The internal failure chance on that ship is huge...that means you could potentially loose ships to explosions, I've had 2 of my freighters explode on me playing so far. Also there is a huge mismatch between your max cost of a repair in maintenance and your onboard maintenance. Those ships will be "yard dogs" easily. Military ships can't afford such massive disparities if you intend to send them on long duration operations since it doesn't matter if there is a support ship with the maintenance around, if the failure occurs and you can't repair from onboard stocks then it will take 2x as many (which probably means it can't be done) to repair using damage control. Warships do very well to have at the minimum spares equal to max spares, but more is better.
Missile fire control controls missiles and only missiles. You need a few more fire controls on this puppy. 4+ rail gun controls and 3-5 turret controls to allow you maximum flexibility. Also note your turrets are fast...probably far faster then you need (unless the 250K km/s is a typo). The fire controls can and should be different since the rail gun ones need range but not speed while the turret controls need speed but not range. Right now you can engage one (1) target...its likely to die but...
Also you 5 reactors, is that the minimum you need to run your ship? If so you should consider a few spares to allow you to continue after combat losses and armouring them is very very sensible.
I would suggest haveing a few search sensors, one with long range and low resolution, then one with shorter range and higher resolution and then your final one being a anti-missile search sensor. This gives you the best of all worlds and means that things like fighters don't show up at point blank range on you.
Also is the speed a requirement? If not you are putting a lot of effort going fast for a ship this size. Reducing your speed to 10,000 km/s would save you a lot of mass and probably drop your failure chances.
Post by: Charlie Beeler on July 17, 2009, 08:02:24 AM
Non-turreted weapons max possible tracking speed is the same as baseline speed of the fire control. Even if you install a beam fire control that 2-4X larger for faster tracking hull mounted beams are still limited to the baseline. To use the faster/multiplier speeds the beam must be turret mounted.
Turret mounted beams can't use tracking speeds greater than the max tracking speed of the fire contol assigned. Anything fastere is wasted mass and hull space. Keep in mind that the mass of the turret tracking gears goes up segnificantly once you go past the best turret tracking speed researched.
When designing a beam for point defense (hull or turret) consider how your planning to use it. How fast do you expect incoming missiles too be? What is your best ROF for the selected beam? Can you realisticly expect multiple shots at incoming salvos? (ie can missiles cross the beams fire envelope before a second shot can be made?) How accurate is your fire control at max range vs point blank?
Assume expected enemy missiles with speeds around 30k(I've met Precursors using these). With the tech in your various examples you should be able to design a laser with at least a range of 180k km with a ROF of 5. Quad turret instead of twin with a tracking speed of 30k. Dedicated fire control with a 50% range of at least 180k km and tracking speed of 30k. And an active sensor with res 1 and at least 500k km detection range. This installation should come in well under the mass of what your example show and be more effective.
Don't forget the reactors. I design mine on a one for one basis, as in one reactor that has just enough output to supply the capacitor needs of the turret for a single 5 second increment. Until you start using internal armor they don't cost any more mass then one massive reactor supplying all demands. It also reduce the chance of taking all weapons off line with a lucky reactor hit.
Post by: alexwildstar on July 17, 2009, 01:35:01 PM
one of the reason my ship goes that fast is because well when I auto generate ships that is the speed they are going. So I assusmed if the auto generated ships are that fast nprs I run into could be that fast. is that a good assumption.
Post by: Charlie Beeler on July 17, 2009, 01:43:15 PM
Just how many RP's did you give your race?
Post by: Steve Walmsley on July 18, 2009, 03:28:27 AM
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
20cm - 30cm dual turrets are just bloody huge. Five of them is just... wow.You can build multi-role ships but they would have to be significantly larger than 16,000 tons. The design below is from my current campaign and includes anti-ship missile and anti-missile missile launchers plus some short-range railguns for missile defence.
For missile sizes, I tend to go Size 1 for Anti-missle (AMM).
For ship-killers, Size 3-4 is a Light Missile, 5-7 is Medium, 8-12 is Heavy. Size 12+ are reserved for capital ships and/or PDCs.
I also tend to build specialized ships. Missile ships will have at most 1 5 sec recharge quad turret for PD. Beam ships will have no missiles at all.
The "Enterprise" method of shipbuilding does not lend itself well to Aurora. This method is each ship should be self-sufficient and shoot beam, missiles and PD with equal facility.
Code: [Select]
Athena class Battlestar 25000 tons 2105 Crew 3908.6 BP TCS 500 TH 2400 EM 1920
4800 km/s Armour 8-76 Shields 64-300 Sensors 24/24/0/0 Damage Control Rating 14 PPV 70
Annual Failure Rate: 357% IFR: 5% Maintenance Capacity 1362 MSP Max Repair 126 MSP
Magazine 1852
NPO Energomash Magneto-plasma Drive (30) Power 80 Efficiency 0.60 Signature 80 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 600,000 Litres Range 72.0 billion km (173 days at full power)
Gamma R300/12 Shields (32) Total Fuel Cost 384 Litres per day
10cm Advanced Rapid-Fire Railgun (6x5) Range 30,000km TS: 4800 km/s Power 3-3 RM 3 ROF 5
SGB-12 Railgun Tracking System (2) Max Range: 48,000 km TS: 6000 km/s 79 58 38 17 0
Stellarator Fusion Reactor (3) Total Power Output 18 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Mk 3 Guided Missile Launch System (12) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 10
Mk 1 Guided Missile Launch System (10) Missile Size 4 Rate of Fire 60
SGM-4 Long Range Fire Control (2) Range 100.8m km Resolution 80
SGM-2 Point Defence Fire Control (2) Range 1.3m km Resolution 1
SS-N-4 Shadow (260) Speed: 24,000 km/ Range: 97.5m km WH: 6 Size: 4 TH: 80 / 48 / 24
SR-N-2 Raptor Recon Drone (8) Speed: 3,000 km/s Range: 226.5m km WH: 0 Size: 4 TH: 10 / 6 / 3
SA-N-3 Gladius (780) Speed: 35,500 km/s Range: 1.5m km WH: 1 Size: 1 TH: 260 / 156 / 78
SGS-1 Missile Detection Array (1) GPS 126 Range 1.3m km Resolution 1
SGS-3 Area Search Sensor (1) GPS 10080 Range 100.8m km Resolution 80
STP-5 Thermal Sensor (1) Sensitivity 24 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 24m km
SEP-6 EM Sensor (1) Sensitivity 24 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 24m km
ECM 10Steve
Post by: Steve Walmsley on July 18, 2009, 03:34:31 AM
Quote from: "alexwildstar"
Also on my 16k ton ship i was having a tough time getting it annual break down below thirty percent without just throwing on ton of enginering. this is my big boy atm any major flawsThe chance of failure scales with size so a 10,000 ton ship is twice as likely to have an engineering failure than a 5000 ton ship. This is simply because there are twice as many systems to go wrong. Another way to look at it is that a 10,000 ton ship will have the same number of failures as two 5000 ton ships. The cost of any individual failure will be approximately the same so as long as the 10,000 ship is carrying twice as many maintenance supplies as the 5000 ton ship they will both have similar endurance in terms of coping with system failures. As ships get larger then failure rates well above 100% are reasonable. Just make sure you have enough maintenance supplies to cope with the number of expected failures. Also, remember that as long as a ship is in orbit of a planet with suitable maintenance facilities, it won't suffer any failures and its overhaul clock will not increase.
Steve
Post by: Steve Walmsley on July 18, 2009, 03:37:13 AM
Steve
Post by: Beersatron on July 20, 2009, 11:40:12 AM
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Quote from: "Erik Luken"20cm - 30cm dual turrets are just bloody huge. Five of them is just... wow.You can build multi-role ships but they would have to be significantly larger than 16,000 tons. The design below is from my current campaign and includes anti-ship missile and anti-missile missile launchers plus some short-range railguns for missile defence.
For missile sizes, I tend to go Size 1 for Anti-missle (AMM).
For ship-killers, Size 3-4 is a Light Missile, 5-7 is Medium, 8-12 is Heavy. Size 12+ are reserved for capital ships and/or PDCs.
I also tend to build specialized ships. Missile ships will have at most 1 5 sec recharge quad turret for PD. Beam ships will have no missiles at all.
The "Enterprise" method of shipbuilding does not lend itself well to Aurora. This method is each ship should be self-sufficient and shoot beam, missiles and PD with equal facility.Code: [Select]Athena class Battlestar 25000 tons 2105 Crew 3908.6 BP TCS 500 TH 2400 EM 1920Steve
4800 km/s Armour 8-76 Shields 64-300 Sensors 24/24/0/0 Damage Control Rating 14 PPV 70
Annual Failure Rate: 357% IFR: 5% Maintenance Capacity 1362 MSP Max Repair 126 MSP
Magazine 1852
NPO Energomash Magneto-plasma Drive (30) Power 80 Efficiency 0.60 Signature 80 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 600,000 Litres Range 72.0 billion km (173 days at full power)
Gamma R300/12 Shields (32) Total Fuel Cost 384 Litres per day
10cm Advanced Rapid-Fire Railgun (6x5) Range 30,000km TS: 4800 km/s Power 3-3 RM 3 ROF 5
SGB-12 Railgun Tracking System (2) Max Range: 48,000 km TS: 6000 km/s 79 58 38 17 0
Stellarator Fusion Reactor (3) Total Power Output 18 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Mk 3 Guided Missile Launch System (12) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 10
Mk 1 Guided Missile Launch System (10) Missile Size 4 Rate of Fire 60
SGM-4 Long Range Fire Control (2) Range 100.8m km Resolution 80
SGM-2 Point Defence Fire Control (2) Range 1.3m km Resolution 1
SS-N-4 Shadow (260) Speed: 24,000 km/ Range: 97.5m km WH: 6 Size: 4 TH: 80 / 48 / 24
SR-N-2 Raptor Recon Drone (8) Speed: 3,000 km/s Range: 226.5m km WH: 0 Size: 4 TH: 10 / 6 / 3
SA-N-3 Gladius (780) Speed: 35,500 km/s Range: 1.5m km WH: 1 Size: 1 TH: 260 / 156 / 78
SGS-1 Missile Detection Array (1) GPS 126 Range 1.3m km Resolution 1
SGS-3 Area Search Sensor (1) GPS 10080 Range 100.8m km Resolution 80
STP-5 Thermal Sensor (1) Sensitivity 24 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 24m km
SEP-6 EM Sensor (1) Sensitivity 24 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 24m km
ECM 10
Steve,
Are the Railguns actually effective against missiles in a PD role since they only have a tracking speed of 4800km/s ? Your own slowest attach missile is 24000km/s!
Beam weapons have always confused me, I can create missile systems fine though!
Post by: Steve Walmsley on July 21, 2009, 03:02:09 PM
Quote from: "Beersatron"
Are the Railguns actually effective against missiles in a PD role since they only have a tracking speed of 4800km/s ? Your own slowest attach missile is 24000km/s!Railguns can't be mounted in turrets so their maximum tracking speed is limited by the speed of the ship. However they get four shots (five for advanced railguns) so their low tracking speed is compensated by weight of fire. In some situations that makes them the best short-range point defence weapon.
Beam weapons have always confused me, I can create missile systems fine though!
Steve
Post by: Paul M on July 28, 2009, 01:42:54 AM
Post by: Brian Neumann on July 28, 2009, 06:14:02 AM
Ship speed 3000, base tracking speed 4000, fire control tracking speed 5000. The Actual tracking speed is 4000.
Ship speed 6000, Base tracking speed 4000, fire control tracking speed 5000. The actual tracking speed is 5000.
Ship speed 6000, base tracking speed 4000, fire control tracking speed 8000. The actual tracking speed is 6000.
The first example the base tracking speed is higher than the ship speed. This is then compared to the fire control tracking speed and the lower of the two is used.
Second example the ship speed is the higher of the two and this is then compared to the tracking speed. As the fire control tracking speed is lower than the ship speed the the fire control speed is the limiter.
The Last example the ship speed is faster than the base tracking speed so that is one part. The fire control speed is higher than this so the limiter is the ship speed.
In general railguns are more effective as point defense when the ship speed is greater than the base tracking speed and the fire control speed is matching or better. They are generally equal to turreted weapons when the ship speed is equal to or lower than the base tracking speed. This is because a railgun gets 4 shots per firing cycle and the base fire control speed is 1/4 the maximum tracking speed. If you have the advanced railguns which get 5 shots then they are actually more effective in almost every circumstance. The main drawback to using light railguns for point defense at mid to high tech levels is they are much shorter ranged than any other weapon except for the gauss cannon. They are also significantly larger than the matching lasers or mesons except for the 10cm railgun which has the same size and power requirements as the 10cm laser/meson. (The 10cm railgun has a base damage of 1, meson 1.5 and laser 3 this is then multiplied by the range modifier to get the actual range. For the 12cm it is 2 for the railgun and meson and 4 for the laser.) Railguns also have a lower maximum range multiplier of 9 vs the 12 for the lasers and mesons.
Hope this helps to clarify the situation some
Brian
Post by: Beersatron on July 28, 2009, 10:47:17 AM
Post by: Brian Neumann on July 28, 2009, 11:31:11 AM
Quote from: "Beersatron"
Thanks for the explanation Brian, I will need to re-read it few times to get it to stick!I know that it is complicated. I think the easiest way is to break it down into two seperate steps. Step one uses the higher of ship speed or base fire control speed as the limiter. Step two is to use that number compared to the actual fire control in use and use the LOWER of the two values. The idea was to allow for slow moving ships and bases to still be able to use non turret mounted beam weapons.
As far as the railguns go, I usually use them for point defense early on, untill I can get a good rate of fire on the gauss weapons (5 or better) At this point when they are mounted on turrets they are better than the 10cm railgun for point blank defense. The reason for the higher rate of fire is that a 10cm railgun uses approximately 3.5 spaces while a all up gauss cannon uses 6. By the time that you through in the turret weight the gauss cannon are often up to 8hs per installation. While they have four times the chance to hit of the railgun, two railguns are about equal to one gauss cannon with a rate of fire of 3. At four the tradeoff is more problematical and from five on the higher rate of fire of the gauss cannon makes the difference.
Oddly enough from what I have said above, neither weapon is my prefered close in point defense. I personally like the mesons. They become a very usefull dual weapon, while not as efficient at knocking down missiles, they are longer ranged and any enemy ship which does get into range is in trouble as they are ignoring all of its passive defenses. Overall they are about 80% as effective as the railguns at lower tech and maybe 75% as effective at higher tech levels for shooting down missiles. Against ships however a 15cm meson is fairly long ranged and with a rate of fire of every five seconds quite dangerous.
Brian
Post by: Charlie Beeler on July 28, 2009, 12:20:19 PM
Quote from: "Brian"
As far as the railguns go, I usually use them for point defense early on, untill I can get a good rate of fire on the gauss weapons (5 or better) At this point when they are mounted on turrets they are better than the 10cm railgun for point blank defense. The reason for the higher rate of fire is that a 10cm railgun uses approximately 3.5 spaces while a all up gauss cannon uses 6. By the time that you through in the turret weight the gauss cannon are often up to 8hs per installation. While they have four times the chance to hit of the railgun, two railguns are about equal to one gauss cannon with a rate of fire of 3. At four the tradeoff is more problematical and from five on the higher rate of fire of the gauss cannon makes the difference.
That's mostly true as long as the missiles only about twice as fast as your base fire control tracking speed. After that the degradation of the hull mounted RG starts to be out performed by PD suite's of 4x tracking speed fire controls and matching turrets with GC's at ROF of 2 or greater set to final defense of 10k/km.
My current games dedicated escorts look like this at first:
Code: [Select]
Enterprise class Escort Cruiser 10000 tons 815 Crew 1706.6 BP TCS 200 TH 330 EM 480
3300 km/s Armour 4-41 Shields 16-300 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 3 PPV 42
Annual Failure Rate: 266% IFR: 3.7% Maintenance Capacity 320 MSP Max Repair 320 MSP
Magazine 520
Ion Engine E8.4 ts33 (10) Power 66 Efficiency 0.84 Signature 33 Armour 0 Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres Range 42.9 billion km (150 days at full power)
Gamma R300/14 Shields (8) Total Fuel Cost 112 Litres per day
Quad Gauss Cannon S2-R1-100 Turret (1x8) Range 10,000km TS: 16000 km/s Power 0-0 RM 1 ROF 5 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
PD Fire Control S04 24-16000 (1) Max Range: 48,000 km TS: 16000 km/s 79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
Size 2 Missile Launcher (5) Missile Size 2 Rate of Fire 20
CM Fire Control FC48-R1 (1) Range 1.4m km Resolution 1
CM-2-1 (260) Speed: 24,000 km/s End: 0.9m Range: 1.3m km WH: 1 Size: 2 TH: 224 / 134 / 67
CM Search Sensor S320-R1 (1) GPS 320 Range 3.2m km Resolution 1
ECCM-1 (2) ECM 10
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
3 of these defended a task group against 3 precursor cruisers throwing missiles at 30k/kps in salvos of 5 every 15 seconds... and stopped the attack cold. Magazines where down to about 5% when the attack broke off. Of the 20 odd missiles that got through the counter missiles only 2 survived to attack. Granted the salvos had been reduced to 1 or 2 missiles out of 3 salvos of 5, but I don't think railguns limited to 4k/kps tracking would have been much good.
The current generation escort looks like this, but is untried in combat at this time:
Code: [Select]
Enterprise B class Escort Cruiser 10000 tons 840 Crew 2070 BP TCS 200 TH 308 EM 480
4400 km/s Armour 3-41 Shields 16-300 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 3 PPV 44
Annual Failure Rate: 228% IFR: 3.2% Maintenance Capacity 453 MSP Max Repair 320 MSP
Magazine 520
Magneto-plasma Drive E7.2 (10) Power 88 Efficiency 0.72 Signature 30.8 Armour 0 Exp 10%
Fuel Capacity 240,000 Litres Range 60.0 billion km (157 days at full power)
Gamma R300/14 Shields (8) Total Fuel Cost 112 Litres per day
Quad Gauss Cannon S3-R1-100 Turret TS-20k (1x12) Range 10,000km TS: 20000 km/s Power 0-0 RM 1 ROF 5 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
PD Fire Control S04 24-16000 (1) Max Range: 48,000 km TS: 16000 km/s 79 58 38 17 0 0 0 0 0 0
Size 2 Missile Launcher (5) Missile Size 2 Rate of Fire 20
CM Fire Control FC105-R1 (1) Range 3.2m km Resolution 1
CM-2-3 (260) Speed: 33,300 km/s End: 0.7m Range: 1.5m km WH: 1 Size: 2 TH: 299 / 179 / 89
CM Search Sensor S320-R1 (1) GPS 320 Range 3.2m km Resolution 1
ECCM-1 (2) ECM 10
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
The new 20k/kps fire control has been delayed and the counter missile launchers are overdue for being replaced by size 1 systems with a 5 second cylcic rate.
It's not perfect by any means. Huge amounts of mass have been dedicated to point blank defense to is probably better used for additional counter missile batteries. But my BuShips is addiment about the requirement for final defensive fire. At this point only the escort cruisers have them, but there is a faction pushing for single or dual turrets on all cruisers or above.
Post by: Beersatron on July 28, 2009, 01:35:57 PM
Say there are 2 missile salvos, #001 is 3 missiles and #002 is 6 missiles.
Your Quad Gauss fires at #001 and destroys all 3 missiles using 8 shots, does it then switch to #002 during that turn and fires the final 4 shots or will it not be able to?
I am not at home atm, but I created a few testbed lasers and turrets and came up with a 5k ton patrol destroyer that has a single 'Triple 12cm Near ultra Violet Turret' which has C4 giving it a 5 second rof. I power it using 2 reactors each giving 6 power, that way if one gets taken out the other might survive the damage and continue giving me something to shoot with.
iirc it has 120k km range and I think I gave it a tracking speed of 12k km/s. 50% effectiveness is 96k km I think.
With 6 armour and 6 shields and 5k km/s speed my thoughts are for jump point defense and jump point scouting. The triple turret doubles as both PD and offensive weapon, depending on the circumstances.
I actually just had a fight with an NPR 2 days ago where I was using my 10k ton missile cruisers. I jumped into the system (I knew the NPRs were in system) (with 1 CA, 1CE and 1 SCL) and within the same 5second increment that I jumped they hit me with 8 ships worth of plasma cannonades - they were camping the JP!! :(
So, on the next battle, I am going to bring the DDs and see about keeping them at 96k km whilst going to rapid fire on the triple lasers
(sorry for thread hijack!)
Post by: alexwildstar on July 28, 2009, 01:53:59 PM
Post by: Charlie Beeler on July 28, 2009, 02:04:46 PM
Quote from: "Beersatron"
With your 2nd generation Quad Gauss cannon:
Say there are 2 missile salvos, #001 is 3 missiles and #002 is 6 missiles.
Your Quad Gauss fires at #001 and destroys all 3 missiles using 8 shots, does it then switch to #002 during that turn and fires the final 4 shots or will it not be able to?<snip>
Unlike missiles, beam fire control won't switch targets that way. Next increment it will switch if there is a valid salvo.
Post by: Beersatron on July 28, 2009, 03:26:43 PM
Quote from: "Charlie Beeler"
Quote from: "Beersatron"With your 2nd generation Quad Gauss cannon:
Say there are 2 missile salvos, #001 is 3 missiles and #002 is 6 missiles.
Your Quad Gauss fires at #001 and destroys all 3 missiles using 8 shots, does it then switch to #002 during that turn and fires the final 4 shots or will it not be able to?<snip>
Unlike missiles, beam fire control won't switch targets that way. Next increment it will switch if there is a valid salvo.
That would be annoying for your ships crew if the PD went for a single missile salvo instead of say a 10missile salvo, wasting all 12 shots on one missile!
Post by: Beersatron on July 28, 2009, 07:11:52 PM
Code: [Select]
Dulduring class Destroyer 6000 tons 560 Crew 970 BP TCS 120 TH 600 EM 180
5000 km/s Armour 6-29 Shields 6-400 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 13 PPV 17
Annual Failure Rate: 96% IFR: 1.3% Maintenance Capacity 303 MSP Max Repair 173 MSP
Ion Engine E9 (10) Power 60 Efficiency 0.90 Signature 60 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 150,000 Litres Range 50.0 billion km (115 days at full power)
Gamma R400/18 Shields (3) Total Fuel Cost 54 Litres per day
Triple 12cm Laser NU-A Turret (1x3) Range 120,000km TS: 12000 km/s Power 12-12 RM 3 ROF 5 4 4 4 3 2 2 1 1 1 1
BFC 96-12A (1) Max Range: 192,000 km TS: 12000 km/s 95 90 84 79 74 69 64 58 53 48
Reactor 6A (2) Total Power Output 12 Armour 0 Exp 5%
AMSS 0.32 A (1) GPS 32 Range 320k km Resolution 1
I have maintenance turned off, so I haven't put as many spares in as otherwise would be needed for what this type of ship would be doing.
I just noticed on the turret that it has 'RM3', if that is Range Modifier does that mean I can hit out to 360k km? And does it mean I should create a new BFC to cater for that range?
It obviously has no long range detection, so would I was thinking of doing is creating Destroyer divisions of 3 ships each. 1 Leader that has long range active sensors and a Jump Drive and then two of these boyos (I can increase the size of division as I get larger jump squadron tech). The plan would be to run from anything too large and chase anything that is same size or smaller. They are cheap tin cans in other words, used to picket areas and act as tripwires more than anything.
Post by: Charlie Beeler on July 28, 2009, 10:05:28 PM
Nothing really leaps out as being bad or miss matched. There are some design concepts that differ from mine, but that is to be expected. Look forward to hearing how it fairs against hostiles.
Post by: Brian Neumann on July 29, 2009, 09:00:15 AM
Brian
Post by: waresky on July 29, 2009, 10:25:38 AM
Without SPARE and maintenance the live r too easy in space:)
With Spare and maintenance all become real and hard to manage.but more and more exciting.
my 2 cents
Post by: Beersatron on July 31, 2009, 10:56:08 AM
Not at home to copy in the ship stats, but this is what I had.
1st Terran Strike Fleet:
1 SCL - sensors and Jump Drive
3 CA - 10 size 5 missile launchers loaded with 50 strength 6, 50m km range 14k km/s attack missiles (previously used strength 2, 80m km, 17k km/s missiles) - 2 FCs
3 CE - 10 size 1 missile launchers loaded with 610 strength 1, 1.1m km range 26k km/s defense missiles (same as first battle) - 2 FCs
1st Terran Patrol Fleet:
3 DD - as mention above, 120k km range triple turret at 12k km/s tracking.
The NPRs had actually placed a picket on the otherside of the JP that I had used to enter their system, so they had an advanced picket of 3 missile ships at an estimated 17k tons.
They spammed missiles like they were going out of fashion, and these ones were strength 6 this time (last battle they were strength 3). 3 salvos every 40 seconds I think, 2 of 14 missiles and one of 9 (the missile ships were two separate classes) at 9k km/s. During the whole engagement they only hit one of the destroyers 3 times and that was because I did some time increments too long. My PD missiles performed at about 75% interception overall, they were set to 1vs1. The destroyers didn't get much of a test in the PD role because I was heading into the fire at a combined speed of 13k km/s and the PD missiles were taking out most attack missiles before they got within my inner envelope. If I was the one being chased then I would have had the DDs go their full 5k km/s and directly away from the missiles, possibly giving me 3 shots before they got to attack range. The triple lasers were getting about 33% success rates I think.
I fired a total of 1700 PD missiles, at a 1v1 PD setting and 75% success rate that means the NPR ships must have had BIG magazines, especially since their missiles were size 5.
I fired a total of only 75 attack missiles myself, just so I could get the intelligence reports when they hit and to see if I could knock a couple of launchers out. The reason I was attacking was so I could test my DDs out and I didn't want to waste ammo.
They finally ran out of ammo so I detached the DDs and they sped after the NPRs. I had them set to follow at 100k km but that wasn't working well with the time increments so I just went with plain old 'follow' and had the lasers set to open fire. They did one point per hit at 120k km, max range. They did 4 points per hit at 60k km and less.
Didn't take long to chase the NPRs down and whack them!
I had to head home after the battle though, down to just 61 PD missiles and 75 attack missiles so if I tried to force the JP I would have been stuck with just the 3DDs for combat power.
I have another 3DDs cooking and am near ready to finalize the design on my Destroyer Leader which will have a 4ship Jump Engine. I am also going to design and build a collier for attack missiles and in the future give my missile attack ships more than just 50 missiles!!
Post by: jfelten on October 09, 2009, 08:11:17 AM
Starting a new 4.26 game after a long break from a single game of 3.x, some of what I learned from 3.x is dusty, outdated, and memories are faded. I was looking on this BBS for a refresher or primer on sensors. Topics such as, if I intend to escort missile-only ships with scouts (that have long range active sensors), is there any need for any sensor on the missile ships aside from missile fire control sensors? Accepting that if the scouts are destroyed the squadron will have no active sensors. Do the missile ships need active search sensors in order to fire their missiles, or are the missile fire control sensors sufficient assuming some other unit has spotted the enemy? I usually start a new ship design with one of each sensor type but in the end there is never enough space for everything desired and decisions have to be made about what to cut.
Thanks.
Post by: Brian Neumann on October 09, 2009, 08:54:58 AM
Quote from: "jfelten"
This is kind of an old thread I'm replying to but I'm catching up after taking an Aurora break for several months to give Steve time to work on 4.x before I started a new game. Thanks Steve for your efforts and sharing.As long as any ship has the targets on their active sensors, your missile ships will be able to use their fire control to lock them up and fire on them. That being said however, it is a good idea to put a small active sensor on your ships anyway that is set for detecting a large ship. When you set the resolution to 150 or higher you will find that you can detect large ships at a good distance off. With a grav sensor strenght of 12 resolution of 150 and antenna size of .5 I still had a 9m km range. Step the resolution to 200hs and the range was up to 12m km. A 1hs sensor would give you 24m km then and that is probably at least close to what your missiles will get to.
Starting a new 4.26 game after a long break from a single game of 3.x, some of what I learned from 3.x is dusty, outdated, and memories are faded. I was looking on this BBS for a refresher or primer on sensors. Topics such as, if I intend to escort missile-only ships with scouts (that have long range active sensors), is there any need for any sensor on the missile ships aside from missile fire control sensors? Accepting that if the scouts are destroyed the squadron will have no active sensors. Do the missile ships need active search sensors in order to fire their missiles, or are the missile fire control sensors sufficient assuming some other unit has spotted the enemy? I usually start a new ship design with one of each sensor type but in the end there is never enough space for everything desired and decisions have to be made about what to cut.
Thanks.
If you are using larger missiles you can also put in a seeker head on the missile. In that case the missile will head to the waypoint you designate, and if their are any targets within range will home in on them randomely. Em sensors are actually really good for this as most ships in combat are going to be radiating quite strongly.
Brian
Post by: jfelten on October 09, 2009, 09:41:02 AM
I did design a search sensor drone IIRC but I don't think the sensor part has enough range to be really useful as a backup for a scout.
What about putting a small thermal sensor on a missile ship? Any real value in that?
Post by: Brian Neumann on October 09, 2009, 10:43:16 AM
Quote from: "jfelten"
Thanks. I hadn't really thought of cranking the resolution as high (low?) as 150 to get an active sensor down to 50 tons. Resolution 150 is 7,500 tons right?
I did design a search sensor drone IIRC but I don't think the sensor part has enough range to be really useful as a backup for a scout.
What about putting a small thermal sensor on a missile ship? Any real value in that?
Resolution 15 is 7,500tons, for me that is usually a cruiser range combatant. I have put resolution 250 on as a backup sensor, that will only spot the largest ships you are likely to see at the begining of the game.
The thermal sensor is a good one in theory, the problem is if the oponents are going slow, and/or have some levels of thermal masking built in to thier ships then the small thermal sensor just doesn't have the range to be usefull. I still tend to put it on my ships as a backup, and because it is great for detecting large ships at long range when they are moving quickly. The em sensor tends to spot the active sensors when they are on and once shields and fire control are active they do a good job of spotting warships. If the enemy can use a passive lock from the planet without going active however, you may not know that there are enemy ships nearby.
Brian
Post by: jfelten on October 09, 2009, 12:58:04 PM
It gets even worse with things like reduced size missile launchers ending up 37.5 tons each.
Post by: Steve Walmsley on October 09, 2009, 01:03:36 PM
Quote from: "jfelten"
This is kind of an old thread I'm replying to but I'm catching up after taking an Aurora break for several months to give Steve time to work on 4.x before I started a new game. Thanks Steve for your efforts and sharing.Any ship can provide the active search. The firing ship just needs the fire control system.
Starting a new 4.26 game after a long break from a single game of 3.x, some of what I learned from 3.x is dusty, outdated, and memories are faded. I was looking on this BBS for a refresher or primer on sensors. Topics such as, if I intend to escort missile-only ships with scouts (that have long range active sensors), is there any need for any sensor on the missile ships aside from missile fire control sensors? Accepting that if the scouts are destroyed the squadron will have no active sensors. Do the missile ships need active search sensors in order to fire their missiles, or are the missile fire control sensors sufficient assuming some other unit has spotted the enemy? I usually start a new ship design with one of each sensor type but in the end there is never enough space for everything desired and decisions have to be made about what to cut.
Steve
Post by: Steve Walmsley on October 09, 2009, 01:09:35 PM
Quote from: "jfelten"
I get some oddball tonnage totals due to armor not being constrained to 25/50 ton units. I don't recall this in 3.x but maybe I just don't remember. The problem with it is when designing jump ships. I want to get the full ability out of my jump engine so I want the ships tonnage to exactly match the jump engine rating. This is difficult when the armor results in something like 2,955 tons when designing a 3,000 ton jump ship. I made some little useless power reactors in 5 and 10 ton sizes that I can use the pad the ship up to exactly 3,000 tons, but that seems a bit silly. Am I missing something? What do others do for this?While the 'exact class size' figure on the class summary window can contain fractions, the displayed tonnage and the actual size saved to the database are both rounded up to the nearest 50 tons in all cases except fighters. Please can you post one of the classes where the actual displayed tonnage is not being rounded up so I can try and figure out what is causing the problem.
It gets even worse with things like reduced size missile launchers ending up 37.5 tons each.
Steve
Post by: jfelten on October 09, 2009, 01:47:43 PM
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
While the 'exact class size' figure on the class summary window can contain fractions, the displayed tonnage and the actual size saved to the database are both rounded up to the nearest 50 tons in all cases except fighters. Please can you post one of the classes where the actual displayed tonnage is not being rounded up so I can try and figure out what is causing the problem.
Steve
Ah ha. So, even though the exact size of the jump ship shows something like 2,990 tons, it can still jump non-jump-drive ships that are a full (exact) 3,000 tons (assuming the jump ship has a 3,000 ton jump drive)?
But if the exact size is 3,001 tons, it will round up to 3,050 and therefore the strength 3,000 jump drive won't be able to function, right?
Post by: jfelten on October 09, 2009, 02:03:01 PM
Playing with maintenance off, it looks like commercial engines might be a good idea for Geo and Grav survey ships, simply for the great increase in endurance/range? They are slower for the same total mass, but being able to keep on surveying for literally years without refueling should make up some of that.
I assume that jump gate construction ships are normally designed as non-military units due to the huge size of the Jump Gate Construction Module (50,000 tons), so they can be built in the starting commercial shipyard.
Post by: Steve Walmsley on October 09, 2009, 02:17:55 PM
Quote from: "jfelten"
Yes, that correct. I just realised that you probably have the Show Size in Tons checkbox checked and are reading the tonnage from the Exact Class Size box. The tonnage that is saved is the rounded up one in the summary display. The exact class size is to allow you to work out if you can add small systems without affecting overall size.Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"While the 'exact class size' figure on the class summary window can contain fractions, the displayed tonnage and the actual size saved to the database are both rounded up to the nearest 50 tons in all cases except fighters. Please can you post one of the classes where the actual displayed tonnage is not being rounded up so I can try and figure out what is causing the problem.Ah ha. So, even though the exact size of the jump ship shows something like 2,990 tons, it can still jump non-jump-drive ships that are a full (exact) 3,000 tons (assuming the jump ship has a 3,000 ton jump drive)?
But if the exact size is 3,001 tons, it will round up to 3,050 and therefore the strength 3,000 jump drive won't be able to function, right?
Steve
Post by: jfelten on October 09, 2009, 03:28:11 PM
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Yes, that correct. I just realised that you probably have the Show Size in Tons checkbox checked and are reading the tonnage from the Exact Class Size box. The tonnage that is saved is the rounded up one in the summary display. The exact class size is to allow you to work out if you can add small systems without affecting overall size.
Steve
Yep, that is it exactly. I usually select the option to show things in tons when available to avoid having to think in both systems. A minor wish is that those check boxes were sticky and available everywhere hull spaces are used.
Post by: welchbloke on October 09, 2009, 06:07:10 PM
Quote from: "jfelten"
A couple philosophical 4.x ship design questions for players that have ran through a few years of 4.x game time:
Playing with maintenance off, it looks like commercial engines might be a good idea for Geo and Grav survey ships, simply for the great increase in endurance/range? They are slower for the same total mass, but being able to keep on surveying for literally years without refueling should make up some of that.
.
I tend to use military grade engines purely because, particularly early in the game, I want to survey systems and expand as fast as possible. That said your premise for using commercial engines is perfectly valid and should work perfectly well.
Quote from: "jfelten"
I assume that jump gate construction ships are normally designed as non-military units due to the huge size of the Jump Gate Construction Module (50,000 tons), so they can be built in the starting commercial shipyard.That is exactly what I do and I then set them to cruise arond JP building gates to systems that I want to encourage the civilian shipping lines to visit. However, with Steve adding comemrcial jump drives to v4.3 I suspect that this paradigm may change. Steve should be able to answer if commecial shipping lines will build jump capable freighters or not.
Post by: jfelten on October 10, 2009, 03:44:43 AM
I am looking forward to 4.3 and the commercial jump drive. I don't like not being able to ship industry etc. without jump gates like I could in 3.x.
Post by: Steve Walmsley on October 10, 2009, 08:03:19 PM
Quote from: "jfelten"
My starting commercial shipyard was 3x49,000 so couldn't even build the 50,000 ton jump gate construction module alone. I designed a slow fairly minimal JG ship of 63,550 tons and bought that with my starting funds anyway. Perhaps there was a horrible act of commercial shipyard sabotage right before I took the reins and was crowned Emperor Eternal. I just didn't want to spend years of game time before I could build my first jump gate. I did start expanding the size of the commercial shipyard immediately, but with 3 slips, it is going to take a long time before I can build another JG construction ship.Commercial shipyards can be expanded at ten times the rate of naval shipyards so it doesn't take that long to get from 49,000 to 65,000.
I am looking forward to 4.3 and the commercial jump drive. I don't like not being able to ship industry etc. without jump gates like I could in 3.x.
Steve
Post by: jfelten on October 11, 2009, 08:57:40 AM
Post by: WHCnelson on November 04, 2009, 01:11:55 PM
set up a campaign and I am new to Auroura.
Making Changes to my set up
Post by: Steve Walmsley on November 04, 2009, 06:06:24 PM
Quote from: "WHCnelson"
I have a number of vessels that I think are a good design; But I would love your input in that I have just begun to
set up a campaign and I am new to Auroura.
Due to the way that phpBB formats text, a good tip for displaying ship designs is to use the code brackets to make them more readable. Using the first design as an example:
Belknap class Battlecruiser 10000 tons 1061 Crew 1387.76 BP TCS 200 TH 600 EM 90
3000 km/s Armour 1-41 Shields 3-300 Sensors 48/48/0/0 Damage Control Rating 5 PPV 27
Annual Failure Rate: 160% IFR: 2.2% Maintenance Capacity 434 MSP Max Repair 112 MSP
Magazine 301
Ion Engine E8 (10) Power 60 Fuel Use 80% Signature 60 Armour 0 Exp 5% Hyper Capable
Fuel Capacity 300,000 Litres Range 67.5 billion km (260 days at full power)
Beta R300/12 Shields (2) Total Fuel Cost 24 Litres per day
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor PB-1 AR-8.0 (1) Total Power Output 36 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Size 3 Missile Launcher (9) Missile Size 3 Rate of Fire 30
Missile Fire Control FC112-R12 (2) Range 40.3m km Resolution 12
Thermal Sensor TH8-48 (1) Sensitivity 48 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 48m km
EM Detection Sensor EM8-48 (1) Sensitivity 48 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 48m km
This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
Code: [Select]
Belknap class Battlecruiser 10000 tons 1061 Crew 1387.76 BP TCS 200 TH 600 EM 90
3000 km/s Armour 1-41 Shields 3-300 Sensors 48/48/0/0 Damage Control Rating 5 PPV 27
Annual Failure Rate: 160% IFR: 2.2% Maintenance Capacity 434 MSP Max Repair 112 MSP
Magazine 301
Ion Engine E8 (10) Power 60 Fuel Use 80% Signature 60 Armour 0 Exp 5% Hyper Capable
Fuel Capacity 300,000 Litres Range 67.5 billion km (260 days at full power)
Beta R300/12 Shields (2) Total Fuel Cost 24 Litres per day
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor PB-1 AR-8.0 (1) Total Power Output 36 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Size 3 Missile Launcher (9) Missile Size 3 Rate of Fire 30
Missile Fire Control FC112-R12 (2) Range 40.3m km Resolution 12
Thermal Sensor TH8-48 (1) Sensitivity 48 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 48m km
EM Detection Sensor EM8-48 (1) Sensitivity 48 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 48m km
This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposesSteve
Post by: Andrew on November 04, 2009, 06:14:15 PM
Quote from: "WHCnelson"
I have a number of vessels that I think are a good design; But I would love your input in that I have just begun toA short list of problems
set up a campaign and I am new to Auroura.
The first two are what I am calling Battlecruisers:
[Belknap class Battlecruiser 10000 tons 1061 Crew 1387.76 BP TCS 200 TH 600 EM 90
3000 km/s Armour 1-41 Shields 3-300 Sensors 48/48/0/0 Damage Control Rating 5 PPV 27
Annual Failure Rate: 160% IFR: 2.2% Maintenance Capacity 434 MSP Max Repair 112 MSP
Magazine 301
Ion Engine E8 (10) Power 60 Fuel Use 80% Signature 60 Armour 0 Exp 5% Hyper Capable
Fuel Capacity 300,000 Litres Range 67.5 billion km (260 days at full power)
Beta R300/12 Shields (2) Total Fuel Cost 24 Litres per day
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor PB-1 AR-8.0 (1) Total Power Output 36 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Size 3 Missile Launcher (9) Missile Size 3 Rate of Fire 30
Missile Fire Control FC112-R12 (2) Range 40.3m km Resolution 12
Thermal Sensor TH8-48 (1) Sensitivity 48 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 48m km
EM Detection Sensor EM8-48 (1) Sensitivity 48 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 48m km
This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
It has tissue paper for defenses any hit will breach the armour and inflict internal hits
It has no active sensors , although it has a missile fire control so it will not be able to target anything with missiles
It seems to have no magazines so no missiles which makes the launchers even more useless
It has a powerplant which does nothing as it has no beam weapons to be powered
I would not fit so large passive sensors to a warship but that is personal taste
All your ships have the same problems and so will be pretty useless
specifically extra problems
Your escort cruiser has resolution 10 FC unit , for antimissile work you need resolution 1 sensors
You have ships mounting Meson guns and ships mounting lasers I rarely bother developing two seperate lines of beam weapons
You have some ships mounting Alpha shields and some Beta shields possibly the ones with Alpha shields are an older design but unless they are there is no point mounting Alpha shields they are just less efficient than Beta ones
Also your engines are hyoer capable you do not need that to use jump points , just to move fast between components of a Binary a rare situation I have never needed them and they make your engines much bigger than they need to be so I would not bother with Hyper capable engines as routine
Post by: Andrew on November 04, 2009, 06:15:03 PM
Post by: Steve Walmsley on November 04, 2009, 06:32:13 PM
Code: [Select]
Belknap class Battlecruiser 10000 tons[/b] 1061 Crew 1387.76 BP TCS 200 TH 600 EM 90
3000 km/s Armour 1-41 Shields 3-300 Sensors 48/48/0/0 Damage Control Rating 5 PPV 27
Annual Failure Rate: 160% IFR: 2.2% Maintenance Capacity 434 MSP Max Repair 112 MSP
Magazine 301
Ion Engine E8 (10) Power 60 Fuel Use 80% Signature 60 Armour 0 Exp 5% Hyper Capable
Fuel Capacity 300,000 Litres Range 67.5 billion km (260 days at full power)
Beta R300/12 Shields (2) Total Fuel Cost 24 Litres per day
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor PB-1 AR-8.0 (1) Total Power Output 36 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Size 3 Missile Launcher (9) Missile Size 3 Rate of Fire 30
Missile Fire Control FC112-R12 (2) Range 40.3m km Resolution 12
Thermal Sensor TH8-48 (1) Sensitivity 48 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 48m km
EM Detection Sensor EM8-48 (1) Sensitivity 48 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 48m kmYou have done absolutely the right thing by posting designs and asking for feedback. It is definitely the best way to learn Aurora's very detailed ship design. With that in mind, please don't be offended by any constructive criticism as sometimes people can appear to tear a design to pieces when in fact they are just trying to be helpful :). I would reduce the size of the passive sensors and use the extra space to add the active sensor.Reactors are used to power beam weapons so the total power you need is whatever is required every 5 seconds. For example, the following weapon has a power requirement of 10-4, which means it requires 10 total power to fire and that the maximum power it can recharge every 5 seconds is 4. So the total reactor power you would need is 4, as that is all the weapon can use every 5 seconds. If you had six of these on a ship, you would require 24 power every 5 seconds, which means reactors with a total power output of 24. Missile launchers and Gauss Cannon don't require any power at all
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20cm C4 Ultraviolet Laser (1) Range 0km TS: 4000 km/s Power 10-4 RM 4 ROF 15 The speed is possibly on the low size but that really depends on your combat philosophy. The main thing to avoid is low speed and short-ranged weapons. if you have either high speed or long-ranged weapons, you are generally OK (Unless those evil aliens have higher speed and longer-ranged weapons )The shield strength is very low and you have no additional armour. A single missile will take down the shield and leave you very vulnerable, Given your shield tech, the best option is probably to increase the armour strength to perhaps 3 or 4. In Aurora, the armour rating is the depth of the armour belt so 3 armour will actually mean 120+ armour boxes on that size of design. They will be in a grid about 40 long by 3 deep. Incoming fire has different damage templates which will cause cratering in the armour. Here is armour with a rating of 3-29 (3 deep, 29 wide) that has taken a hit from a missile with a 10 point warhead
[attachment=0:2981rgjk]Armour1.GIF[/attachment:2981rgjk]
Everything else looks fine. You have grasped a lot of the fundamentals (which isn't easy with no manual) so its mainly a case of balancing the various parts of the design.
Steve
Post by: Steve Walmsley on November 04, 2009, 06:36:57 PM
Quote from: "WHCnelson"
The Last I have is a Colony vessel. I also plan to design quite a few more vessels over the coming days....Every design starts off as commercial. However, once you add even a single military system it becomes a military design. In this case, it is the engines. You will need to design and fit commercial engines instead. If you click the 'Commercial Only' checkbox on the design window, that will hide all military systems
This is only a Preliminary design of a Colony ship and my problem is that it is classed as a military vessel when its a Commercial Vessel? What am I doing wrong?
Steve
Post by: Steve Walmsley on November 04, 2009, 06:52:25 PM
Code: [Select]
Forrestal class Escort Cruiser 8000 tons[/b] 763 Crew 1204.68 BP TCS 160 TH 480 EM 60
3000 km/s Armour 1-35 Shields 2-300 Sensors 48/48/0/0 Damage Control Rating 4 PPV 8
Annual Failure Rate: 128% IFR: 1.8% Maintenance Capacity 376 MSP Max Repair 140 MSP
Magazine 313
Ion Engine E8 (8) Power 60 Fuel Use 80% Signature 60 Armour 0 Exp 5% Hyper Capable
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres Range 70.3 billion km (271 days at full power)
Beta R300/12 Shields (1) Total Fuel Cost 12 Litres per day
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor PB-1 AR-8.0 (1) Total Power Output 36 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Size 1 Missile Launcher (8) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC140-R10 (2) Range 42.0m km Resolution 10
Thermal Sensor TH8-48 (1) Sensitivity 48 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 48m km
EM Detection Sensor EM8-48 (1) Sensitivity 48 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 48m kmThe comment on the previous design apply in some cases to this one as well. The missiles you are using aren't displayed on this design as I you presumably haven't selected a default loadout yet (which you can do on the Ordnance/Fighters tab of the design window), so I am going to assume you are planning to use this design to launch anti-missiles.The passives are probably not necessary on an escort design as the ship is intended to be part of a fleet and won't operate alone. The ships it is escorting can provide passive sensors and long range sensors. The only thing an escort design should be concerned with is detecting missiles and shooting them down. To do that you will need active sensors and fire controls capable of detecting and targeting missiles. The resolution of a sensor in Aurora determines the minimum size of ship that sensor can detect at maximum range. So a sensor with a range of 100m kilometers and a resolution of 80, can detect ships of size 80 or greater out to its maximum range of 100m kilometers. If it tries to detect something smaller, the max range is can do so is equal to: Max Range x (Target Size / Resolution)^2
That isn't as complex it might look once you add some figures. Lets assume the enemy ship is size 50 (2500 tons). At what range could the above sensor detect it? Target Size / Resolution = 50 / 80 = 0.625. That number is squared, which is 0.625 x 0.625 = 0.391. Multiplying that by the range of 100m kilometers means that you could detect the ship at a range of 39.1m kilometers. As you can see, the range at which you can detect smaller ships falls fast. A 1000 ton ship could only be detected at 6.25 million kilometers and a missile (size 0) at just 15,600 km!
What all the above means is that you really need a resolution zero sensor to detect missiles. The missile fire control above with a resolution of 10 and a range of 42m kilometers would only be able to target missiles at a range of 420,000 km. So you need to add a resolution zero active sensor and replace the fire controls with resolution zero versions. Don't be concerned that the range of these sensors will be low. Most anti-missile escorts have engagement ranges of only one or two million kilometers
Steve
Post by: welchbloke on November 04, 2009, 07:14:57 PM
Regarding your warships. I won't rehash all the good advice from Steve and Andrew, but what I will say is that your North Carolina class reduces the effective speed on any fleet they join by 600 km/s. You may want to pick a desired fleet speed and design your ships to meet it.
These designs are much better than my first BTW
Post by: WHCnelson on November 04, 2009, 07:30:54 PM
Thanks for the advice on design... I am going to go and look at my tech. When I started
designing the tech I wasn't sure about what I was doing so I just looked at what was there and went
down on the sizes from 0.5 to 50 or etc. So, now I think I know a little more and I will either begin to
redesign what vessels I have tomorrow after I get home from work or start all over from the beginning.
But, right now I have a question on how to increase the armor on my ships without adding new
tech to the ships. Also, when I have an active sensor it should have at least 5 or 10% range on what the
weapons ranges are? Again, thanks...
Post by: WHCnelson on November 04, 2009, 07:39:49 PM
Code: [Select]
Belknap class Battlecruiser 10000 tons 869 Crew 1640.28 BP TCS 200 TH 720 EM 180
3600 km/s JR 3-50 Armour 5-41 Shields 6-300 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 5 PPV 18
Annual Failure Rate: 160% IFR: 2.2% Maintenance Capacity 513 MSP Max Repair 400 MSP
Magazine 622
J10000(3-50) Military Jump Drive Max Ship Size 10000 tons Distance 50k km Squadron Size 3
Ion Engine E8 NoH (12) Power 60 Fuel Use 80% Signature 60 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres Range 45.0 billion km (144 days at full power)
Beta R300/12 Shields (4) Total Fuel Cost 48 Litres per day
Size 3 Missile Launcher (6) Missile Size 3 Rate of Fire 30
Missile Fire Control FC112-R12 (1) Range 40.3m km Resolution 12
Size 3 Sharp AS Missile (109) Speed: 8,000 km/s End: 78.1m Range: 37.5m km WH: 4 Size: 3 TH: 69 / 41 / 20
Size 3 Utada AS Missile (100) Speed: 8,000 km/s End: 78.1m Range: 37.5m km WH: 8 Size: 3 TH: 26 / 16 / 8
Active Search Sensor S28-R240 (1) GPS 6720 Range 67.2m km Resolution 240
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposesI may have to redesign it again later; but hey that's life....
Again thanks for the help and advice...
Post by: Steve Walmsley on November 04, 2009, 07:54:02 PM
Quote from: "WHCnelson"
But, right now I have a question on how to increase the armor on my ships without adding newTo increase the armour level, look at the Armour Rating box. It is the second item in the Primary Information section on the left hand side. Use the two small arrows to increase and decrease armour. Better armour tech means that you can get the same armour level while using less hull space for armour, or you can use the same hull space and get a higher armour level
tech to the ships.
Quote
Also, when I have an active sensor it should have at least 5 or 10% range on what the weapons ranges are? Again, thanks...It's really personal preference. I think having a 10% greater sensor range than missile weapons is a good idea but for beam ships you will need active sensors that have greater ranges than the weapons (because beam weapons are so short-ranged). I also have some ships that have much greater sensor ranges than their weapons so they can find targets. You will probably find that scout ships are useful at some point, with minimal or no weapons but huge sensors.
Steve
Post by: welchbloke on November 04, 2009, 08:01:06 PM
Post by: Steve Walmsley on November 04, 2009, 08:27:22 PM
Quote from: "welchbloke"
This design looks much better. Missile range and sensor ranges tie up pretty well. My concern is with your missiles. At 8000 km/s there are ship designs (particularly gunboats and fighters) that can outrun them. I would up the speed to at least 14000 km/sThat's good advice. The chance for missiles to hit is also dependent on their speed and agility and a good way to judge their effectiveness is to see how they would do against your own ship. For the missiles below, the Utada AS missile would only hit 22% of the time against a target moving at 3600 km/s. The Sharp is better and I assume you have used some space for agility. The trick is finding a balance between speed and agility as depending on your tech, speed can sometimes increase the chance to hit more than agility. Even when agility gives a greater chance to hit, you have to balance that against catching the target. It's not easy
. Code: [Select]
Size 3 Sharp AS Missile (109) Speed: 8,000 km/s End: 78.1m Range: 37.5m km WH: 4 Size: 3 TH: 69 / 41 / 20
Size 3 Utada AS Missile (100) Speed: 8,000 km/s End: 78.1m Range: 37.5m km WH: 8 Size: 3 TH: 26 / 16 / 8
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/sAlso bear in mind that if a target is running away, your missiles' range will be reduced to the closing speed multiplied by the endurance. Assume your ship was firing at a copy of itself that was running away. The overtake speed of the missiles will be 4400 km/s. With an endurance of 78.1 minutes, that reduces the effective maximum range to 20.62 million kilometers. If you were to launch any further away than that, the missiles would run out of fuel before they caught the target. Higher speed reduces that problem considerably.Steve
Post by: WHCnelson on November 05, 2009, 04:18:56 PM
Is there a place that gives the Target Size ratings that I can plug in to Detection Equation of Max Range * (Target Size/Resolution)*2. So, can figure out what Search Radar, and Missile Fire Control I will need to detect vessels of varring sizes at different distances. Also, I don't see anything in the Research Tab that can Launch Torpedos?
Post by: Steve Walmsley on November 05, 2009, 08:07:35 PM
Quote from: "WHCnelson"
Steve,Its the TCS (Target Cross Section) shown on the top line of the class summary. Target Size is usually equal to tonnage/50 but a ship with a cloaking device will have a smaller TCS than its tonnage would suggest, making it harder to detect and target than an uncloaked ship of the same size.
Is there a place that gives the Target Size ratings that I can plug in to Detection Equation of Max Range * (Target Size/Resolution)*2. So, can figure out what Search Radar, and Missile Fire Control I will need to detect vessels of varring sizes at different distances.
Quote
Also, I don't see anything in the Research Tab that can Launch Torpedos?Torpedo Launchers are designed using three background techs. Torpedo Type (Thermal Torpedo, Ion Torpedo, etc.), Maximum Torpedo Range and Capacitor Recharge Rate.
Steve
Post by: WHCnelson on November 05, 2009, 08:32:23 PM
Now for the Torpedos I understand, But, what screen do you use to design them? Research tap and the Design Button?
Also, thanks for the help with this and my somewhat stupid questions....
Post by: Steve Walmsley on November 05, 2009, 08:49:47 PM
Quote from: "WHCnelson"
Ok... I found the TCS so I am going to have to make some assumsions when I design my Active Sensors and Missile Fire Control....Yes, use the design button and go to Torpedoes. Don't forget that once you design them you will need to research them before you can use them in ship designs.
Now for the Torpedos I understand, But, what screen do you use to design them? Research tap and the Design Button?
Also, thanks for the help with this and my somewhat stupid questions....
Don't worry about asking questions. This is a complex game and I am always impressed that someone can learn it without a manual. There is usually someone on the forum that can answer them even if I am not available.
Steve
Post by: WHCnelson on November 09, 2009, 04:56:57 PM
Here are the designs the computer came up with and which I modified them...
I think these designs work, but I would like some input before I goto the Fast OOB to
get my initial ships: Also, How many initial ships should I pick up?
My Battlecruisers:
Code: [Select]
Ticonderoga class Battlecruiser 13450 tons 1592 Crew 2299.4 BP TCS 269 TH 1440 EM 180
5353 km/s Armour 6-50 Shields 6-300 Sensors 12/6/0/0 Damage Control Rating 13 PPV 80
Annual Failure Rate: 111% IFR: 1.5% Maintenance Capacity 1389 MSP Max Repair 120 MSP
Magneto-plasma Drive E7 (18) Power 80 Fuel Use 70% Signature 80 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres Range 95.6 billion km (206 days at full power)
Beta R300/10.5 Shields (4) Total Fuel Cost 42 Litres per day
R40/C5 Meson Cannon (10) Range 320,000km TS: 5353 km/s Power 16-5 RM 40 ROF 20 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
Fire Control S04 160-5000 (2) Max Range: 320,000 km TS: 5000 km/s 97 94 91 88 84 81 78 75 72 69
Stellarator Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (12) Total Power Output 72 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Active Search Sensor S84-R55 (1) GPS 4620 Range 46.2m km Resolution 55
Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (1) Sensitivity 12 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 12m km
EM Detection Sensor EM1-6 (1) Sensitivity 6 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 6m km
This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
[code]
[code]
Baltimore class Battlecruiser 13500 tons 1200 Crew 2216.24 BP TCS 270 TH 1440 EM 180
5333 km/s Armour 5-50 Shields 6-300 Sensors 18/18/0/0 Damage Control Rating 10 PPV 40
Annual Failure Rate: 145% IFR: 2% Maintenance Capacity 1026 MSP Max Repair 168 MSP
Magazine 1084
Magneto-plasma Drive E7 (18) Power 80 Fuel Use 70% Signature 80 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 550,000 Litres Range 104.8 billion km (227 days at full power)
Beta R300/10.5 Shields (4) Total Fuel Cost 42 Litres per day
Size 5 Missile Launcher (8) Missile Size 5 Rate of Fire 40
Missile Fire Control FC56-R55 (2) Range 92.4m km Resolution 55
Pelthaas Anti-ship Missile (217) Speed: 25,600 km/s End: 33.5m Range: 51.4m km WH: 10 Size: 5 TH: 85 / 51 / 25
Active Search Sensor S168-R55 (1) GPS 9240 Range 92.4m km Resolution 55
Thermal Sensor TH3-18 (1) Sensitivity 18 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 18m km
EM Detection Sensor EM3-18 (1) Sensitivity 18 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 18m km
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
Code: [Select]
Tennessee class Jump Battlecruiser 13550 tons 1494 Crew 2633.4 BP TCS 271 TH 1440 EM 120
5313 km/s JR 3-50 Armour 4-50 Shields 4-300 Sensors 12/6/0/0 Damage Control Rating 11 PPV 48
Annual Failure Rate: 133% IFR: 1.9% Maintenance Capacity 1336 MSP Max Repair 756 MSP
J13750(3-50) Military Jump Drive Max Ship Size 13750 tons Distance 50k km Squadron Size 3
Magneto-plasma Drive E7 (18) Power 80 Fuel Use 70% Signature 80 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres Range 94.9 billion km (206 days at full power)
Beta R300/10.5 Shields (3) Total Fuel Cost 32 Litres per day
R40/C5 Meson Cannon (6) Range 320,000km TS: 5313 km/s Power 16-5 RM 40 ROF 20 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
Fire Control S04 160-5000 (1) Max Range: 320,000 km TS: 5000 km/s 97 94 91 88 84 81 78 75 72 69
Stellarator Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (10) Total Power Output 60 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Active Search Sensor S84-R55 (1) GPS 4620 Range 46.2m km Resolution 55
Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (1) Sensitivity 12 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 12m km
EM Detection Sensor EM1-6 (1) Sensitivity 6 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 6m km
This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
My Cruisers:
Code: [Select]
Iowa class Heavy Cruiser 9450 tons 1041 Crew 1744.2 BP TCS 189 TH 1040 EM 240
5502 km/s Armour 6-39 Shields 8-300 Sensors 6/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 6 PPV 48
Annual Failure Rate: 119% IFR: 1.7% Maintenance Capacity 692 MSP Max Repair 140 MSP
Magneto-plasma Drive E7 (13) Power 80 Fuel Use 70% Signature 80 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 350,000 Litres Range 95.2 billion km (200 days at full power)
Beta R300/10.5 Shields (5) Total Fuel Cost 53 Litres per day
R40/C5 Meson Cannon (6) Range 320,000km TS: 5502 km/s Power 16-5 RM 40 ROF 20 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
Fire Control S04 160-5000 (2) Max Range: 320,000 km TS: 5000 km/s 97 94 91 88 84 81 78 75 72 69
Stellarator Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (8) Total Power Output 48 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Active Search Sensor S140-R55 (1) GPS 7700 Range 77.0m km Resolution 55
Thermal Sensor TH1-6 (1) Sensitivity 6 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 6m km
This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
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Arleigh Burke class Jump Cruiser 9000 tons 962 Crew 1628.4 BP TCS 180 TH 960 EM 90
5333 km/s JR 3-50 Armour 4-38 Shields 3-300 Sensors 6/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 4 PPV 32
Annual Failure Rate: 162% IFR: 2.2% Maintenance Capacity 452 MSP Max Repair 324 MSP
J9000(3-50) Military Jump Drive Max Ship Size 9000 tons Distance 50k km Squadron Size 3
Magneto-plasma Drive E7 (12) Power 80 Fuel Use 70% Signature 80 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 350,000 Litres Range 100.0 billion km (217 days at full power)
Beta R300/10.5 Shields (2) Total Fuel Cost 21 Litres per day
R40/C5 Meson Cannon (4) Range 320,000km TS: 5333 km/s Power 16-5 RM 40 ROF 20 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
Fire Control S04 160-5000 (1) Max Range: 320,000 km TS: 5000 km/s 97 94 91 88 84 81 78 75 72 69
Stellarator Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (4) Total Power Output 24 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Active Search Sensor S140-R55 (1) GPS 7700 Range 77.0m km Resolution 55
Thermal Sensor TH1-6 (1) Sensitivity 6 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 6m km
This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
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Cleveland class Missile Cruiser 9500 tons 739 Crew 1475.2 BP TCS 190 TH 800 EM 120
4210 km/s Armour 5-39 Shields 4-300 Sensors 6/12/0/0 Damage Control Rating 5 PPV 25
Annual Failure Rate: 144% IFR: 2% Maintenance Capacity 485 MSP Max Repair 112 MSP
Magazine 1129
Magneto-plasma Drive E7 (10) Power 80 Fuel Use 70% Signature 80 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres Range 67.7 billion km (186 days at full power)
Beta R300/10.5 Shields (3) Total Fuel Cost 32 Litres per day
Size 5 Missile Launcher (5) Missile Size 5 Rate of Fire 40
Missile Fire Control FC28-R55 (2) Range 46.2m km Resolution 55
Pelthaas Anti-ship Missile (226) Speed: 25,600 km/s End: 33.5m Range: 51.4m km WH: 10 Size: 5 TH: 85 / 51 / 25
Active Search Sensor S112-R55 (1) GPS 6160 Range 61.6m km Resolution 55
Thermal Sensor TH1-6 (1) Sensitivity 6 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 6m km
EM Detection Sensor EM2-12 (1) Sensitivity 12 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 12m km
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
Post by: WHCnelson on November 09, 2009, 04:58:10 PM
My Destroyers
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Belknap class Destroyer 6500 tons 714 Crew 1183.2 BP TCS 130 TH 720 EM 120
5538 km/s Armour 5-31 Shields 4-300 Sensors 12/6/0/0 Damage Control Rating 4 PPV 32
Annual Failure Rate: 84% IFR: 1.2% Maintenance Capacity 455 MSP Max Repair 140 MSP
Magneto-plasma Drive E7 (9) Power 80 Fuel Use 70% Signature 80 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres Range 98.9 billion km (206 days at full power)
Beta R300/10.5 Shields (3) Total Fuel Cost 32 Litres per day
R40/C5 Meson Cannon (4) Range 320,000km TS: 5538 km/s Power 16-5 RM 40 ROF 20 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
Fire Control S04 160-5000 (1) Max Range: 320,000 km TS: 5000 km/s 97 94 91 88 84 81 78 75 72 69
Stellarator Fusion Reactor Technology PB-1 AR-0 (4) Total Power Output 24 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Active Search Sensor S140-R55 (1) GPS 7700 Range 77.0m km Resolution 55
Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (1) Sensitivity 12 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 12m km
EM Detection Sensor EM1-6 (1) Sensitivity 6 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 6m km
This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
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Wickes class Jump Destroyer Escort 6750 tons 561 Crew 1150.68 BP TCS 135 TH 720 EM 60
5333 km/s JR 3-50 Armour 1-31 Shields 2-300 Sensors 6/6/0/0 Damage Control Rating 2 PPV 4
Annual Failure Rate: 182% IFR: 2.5% Maintenance Capacity 213 MSP Max Repair 196 MSP
Magazine 560
J7000(3-50) Military Jump Drive Max Ship Size 7000 tons Distance 50k km Squadron Size 3
Magneto-plasma Drive E7 (9) Power 80 Fuel Use 70% Signature 80 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres Range 95.2 billion km (206 days at full power)
Beta R300/10.5 Shields (1) Total Fuel Cost 11 Litres per day
Size 1 Missile Launcher (4) Missile Size 1 Rate of Fire 10
Missile Fire Control FC56-R1 (1) Range 1.7m km Resolution 1
Battle Anti-missile Missile (421) Speed: 44,800 km/s End: 9.6m Range: 25.7m km WH: 1 Size: 1 TH: 149 / 89 / 44
Active Search Sensor S168-R1 (1) GPS 168 Range 1.7m km Resolution 1
Thermal Sensor TH1-6 (1) Sensitivity 6 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 6m km
EM Detection Sensor EM1-6 (1) Sensitivity 6 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 6m km
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
Code: [Select]
Long Beach class Missile Destroyer 6400 tons 601 Crew 1042.72 BP TCS 128 TH 640 EM 90
5000 km/s Armour 3-30 Shields 3-300 Sensors 12/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 3 PPV 25
Annual Failure Rate: 109% IFR: 1.5% Maintenance Capacity 305 MSP Max Repair 112 MSP
Magazine 547
Magneto-plasma Drive E7 (8) Power 80 Fuel Use 70% Signature 80 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 250,000 Litres Range 100.4 billion km (232 days at full power)
Beta R300/10.5 Shields (2) Total Fuel Cost 21 Litres per day
Size 5 Missile Launcher (5) Missile Size 5 Rate of Fire 40
Missile Fire Control FC28-R55 (1) Range 46.2m km Resolution 55
Pelthaas Anti-ship Missile (109) Speed: 25,600 km/s End: 33.5m Range: 51.4m km WH: 10 Size: 5 TH: 85 / 51 / 25
Active Search Sensor S112-R55 (1) GPS 6160 Range 61.6m km Resolution 55
Thermal Sensor TH2-12 (1) Sensitivity 12 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 12m km
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
Post by: WHCnelson on November 09, 2009, 04:59:32 PM
Making some changes again...
Post by: Beersatron on November 09, 2009, 05:14:36 PM
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Collier class Collier 25600 tons 1083 Crew 3095.2 BP TCS 512 TH 1360 EM 120
2656 km/s Armour 5-77 Shields 4-300 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 3 PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 1747% IFR: 24.3% Maintenance Capacity 227 MSP Max Repair 40 MSP
Magazine 6318 Cargo Handling Multiplier 5
Magneto-plasma Drive E7 (17) Power 80 Fuel Use 70% Signature 80 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 650,000 Litres Range 65.3 billion km (284 days at full power)
Beta R300/10.5 Shields (3) Total Fuel Cost 32 Litres per day
Pelthaas Anti-ship Missile (482) Speed: 25,600 km/s End: 33.5m Range: 51.4m km WH: 10 Size: 5 TH: 85 / 51 / 25
Mojokassa Anti-ship Missile (482) Speed: 18,300 km/s End: 93.7m Range: 102.9m km WH: 11 Size: 7 TH: 61 / 36 / 18
Battle Anti-missile Missile (534) Speed: 44,800 km/s End: 9.6m Range: 25.7m km WH: 1 Size: 1 TH: 149 / 89 / 44
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
.. is going to be hard to create since it is a Military vessel and is 25k tons. Naval Yards at the start of most games seem to be around 10k tons and they take a loooong time to upgrade. Personally, at the start of games, I go for a fast collier that is based on my CL hulls - just with the launchers and fire controls removed plus maybe less armor and shields in exchange for more Magazines.
I like the look of the Baltimore, maybe up the Armor to 6 and then quadruple the shields if possible. Don't forget that 6 shields will be totally wiped out with 1 Strength 6 missile were as the armor is 'dented' and you could be hit by 20 Strength 6 missiles and still be fighting, if your lucky
I don't use Meson's myself, but it looks like the speed of the ships equipped with them and the range of the Meson's themselves should enable you to get some god licks in at a JP offense/defense.
Post by: WHCnelson on November 09, 2009, 05:53:02 PM
Also, like I said most of these vessels came from the ship design and I modified them. I do have space so for the Baltimore I'll add more armor and Shields.
In addition, how do you get the vessel description to appear in a Moveable table. I used the Code button but as you can see it hasn't really worked. Also,
here is my fixed collier:
Code: [Select]
[code]
Collier class Collier 10000 tons 416 Crew 1224.4 BP TCS 200 TH 480 EM 120
2400 km/s Armour 5-41 Shields 4-300 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 2 PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 400% IFR: 5.6% Maintenance Capacity 153 MSP Max Repair 40 MSP
Magazine 2340 Cargo Handling Multiplier 5
Magneto-plasma Drive E7 (6) Power 80 Fuel Use 70% Signature 80 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres Range 51.4 billion km (248 days at full power)
Beta R300/10.5 Shields (3) Total Fuel Cost 32 Litres per day
Pelthaas Anti-ship Missile (180) Speed: 25,600 km/s End: 33.5m Range: 51.4m km WH: 10 Size: 5 TH: 85 / 51 / 25
Mojokassa Anti-ship Missile (180) Speed: 18,300 km/s End: 93.7m Range: 102.9m km WH: 11 Size: 7 TH: 61 / 36 / 18
Battle Anti-missile Missile (180) Speed: 44,800 km/s End: 9.6m Range: 25.7m km WH: 1 Size: 1 TH: 149 / 89 / 44
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
[/code]
Post by: Father Tim on November 10, 2009, 03:48:57 AM
Post by: WHCnelson on November 10, 2009, 04:08:52 AM
How? I have selected "
Code: [Select]
Place my design here" and it doesn't seem to workIf you can explain then thanks...
Post by: Beersatron on November 10, 2009, 09:08:45 AM
Quote from: "WHCnelson"
Thanks...
Also, like I said most of these vessels came from the ship design and I modified them. I do have space so for the Baltimore I'll add more armor and Shields.
In addition, how do you get the vessel description to appear in a Moveable table. I used the Code button but as you can see it hasn't really worked. Also,
here is my fixed collier:Code: [Select]Collier class Collier 10000 tons 416 Crew 1224.4 BP TCS 200 TH 480 EM 120
2400 km/s Armour 5-41 Shields 4-300 Sensors 1/1/0/0 Damage Control Rating 2 PPV 0
Annual Failure Rate: 400% IFR: 5.6% Maintenance Capacity 153 MSP Max Repair 40 MSP
Magazine 2340 Cargo Handling Multiplier 5
Magneto-plasma Drive E7 (6) Power 80 Fuel Use 70% Signature 80 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Fuel Capacity 200,000 Litres Range 51.4 billion km (248 days at full power)
Beta R300/10.5 Shields (3) Total Fuel Cost 32 Litres per day
Pelthaas Anti-ship Missile (180) Speed: 25,600 km/s End: 33.5m Range: 51.4m km WH: 10 Size: 5 TH: 85 / 51 / 25
Mojokassa Anti-ship Missile (180) Speed: 18,300 km/s End: 93.7m Range: 102.9m km WH: 11 Size: 7 TH: 61 / 36 / 18
Battle Anti-missile Missile (180) Speed: 44,800 km/s End: 9.6m Range: 25.7m km WH: 1 Size: 1 TH: 149 / 89 / 44
Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s
This design is classed as a military vessel for maintenance purposes
I would take out the shields entirely and drop the armor to 4 then fit in more engines and Engineering Spaces unless you are playing with maintenance disabled?
My game style means that I do not have the Colliers on the front line, so they do not need heavy armor, just enough to survive a few hits and also to help when navigating nebulas. This means that they need to be faster than the ships which they are designed to provide reloads too.
A 400% annual failure rate will mean some hefty malfunctions rather quickly - engineering spaces decrease the failure rate and also adds more spare parts.
This ..
Code: [Select]
Mojokassa Anti-ship Missile (180) Speed: 18,300 km/s End: 93.7m Range: 102.9m km WH: 11 Size: 7 TH: 61 / 36 / 18
.. is a Size 7 missile but I do not see any Size 7 missile launchers? So you could probably remove that from the default loadout.BBCode can be enabled by:
Top left hand of forum - 'User Control Panel'
-> Board Preferences tab
-> Edit Posting Defaults section
Post by: Hawkeye on November 10, 2009, 09:34:29 AM
Quote from: "WHCnelson"
Father Time,
How? I have selected "Code: [Select]Place my design here" and it doesn't seem to work
If you can explain then thanks...
Click on "User Control Panel" (top left of the page)
Click on "Board preferences"
Select "Edit posting defaults"
Select "BBCode enabled"
Post by: waresky on November 10, 2009, 10:14:09 AM
Pay ATTENTION on "Maintenance" rating!!! or ur ships laid down and crack on few millions kilometer:))))))))))))