Post by: Steve Walmsley on November 14, 2006, 07:10:43 AM
The Fast Colony Fleet enters Sol through the Corinth jump point, moving within a few thousand kilometers of the Islamic destroyer. This is a worrying situation as the fleet of nineteen ships does not have a weapon between them. Fortunately, the destroyer is content to watch and takes no hostile action but it is time we developed an escort ship that can maintain at least the same 3600 km/s speed as the freighters. Commonwealth ship designers recommend the Hermes class destroyer. Although it has weaknesses in the relatively light shields, the armament of only three 15cm lasers and the higher chance of secondary explosions in the IB-5 engines, it has our best fire control systems for both attack and defence and its speed is high enough to match our fastest survey ships, allowing it to easily escort freighters or protect long range survey missions. The Hermes is not intended for full scale battles but would allow some protection against unexpected attack. One argument against building the new class is that in the fourteen months required to build the first Hermes class ships, our scientists will have completed their work on the next generation of engine technology. However, even when the new engine technology has been developed and new engines have been designed, it will still take months or years for them widely used. Therefore, two Hermes class destroyers are laid down.
Hermes class Destroyer 3150 tons 327 Crew 694 BP Signature 63-252
4000 km/s Armour 1 Shields 12-300 Sensors 6/0/0/0 Damage Control 0-0
Supply 400
Ion Engine IB-5 (4) Armour 0 Exp 8%
15cm C3 Ultraviolet Laser (3) Power 6-3 Range Modifier 4 Rate of Fire 10 6 6 6 6 4 4 3 3 2 2
Mk 1 Laser Fire Control (1) Range: 240k km TS: 3200 km/s 98 96 94 92 90 88 85 83 81 79
Mk 2 Laser Fire Control (1) Range: 60k km TS: 12800 km/s 92 83 75 67 58 50 42 33 25 17
Gas-Cooled Fast Reactor (1) Total Power Output 9 Armour 0 Exp 5%
Passive Sensor S2-6 (1) Strength 6 Detect Signature 10: 0.6m km Detect Signature 100: 6m km
5th September 2050
A noted Commonwealth astronomer has raised the question of why we have not checked comets for trans-newtonian elements. In the past, our survey efforts have been concentrated on planets, moons and asteroids; comets had not been considered. While many of them are little more than balls of ice, a limited number are large enough and solid enough to contain significant quantities of minerals. Furthermore, as comets regularly shed their outer layers as they pass close to the sun, their minerals should be readily accessible. The latest telescopes are easily capable of tracking comets with mineral potential and six are quickly identified within the Sol system.
The closest is currently outside the orbit of Mars and heading outward to aphelion, its furthest point from the sun, which lies beyond the orbit of Saturn. Even so, its 13 year, highly eccentric orbit makes it an ideal candidate for exploitation as it always remains within a reasonable distance. The second closest comet is at two billion kilometers, midway between the orbits of Saturn and Uranus, and heading sunwards from an aphelion of almost three billion kilometers. This will also be a comet that can be fully exploited, if minerals are found, as it remains closer than the Corinth jump point during its entire thirty year cycle. Comet three has a 110 year orbit that takes it into the Kuiper belt beyond Pluto. It is currently at four billion kilometers and heading for the inner system, although it will be twenty-five years before it passes close to the sun.
The remaining three comets are all located outside the Kuiper Belt at distances of sixteen, twenty-three and fifty-one billion kilometers respectively. The closest is moving sunward but will take two hundred years to arrive. Even that is a small amount of time compared to the 3683 years required for its complete orbit out to aphelion at seventy-two billion kilometers. With Nemesis due in forty years, it is unlikely this comet or those further away will provide a likely source of minerals. For comparison purposes, a trip to the closest of the three outer comets would require almost twice the time needed for a journey from Earth to Thebes. In order to investigate the three closest comets, the gravitational survey ship Endeavour begins reactivation.
6th September 2050
Dracon and Akagi enter Sol. Rear Admiral Takahashi reports that he has fought a brief battle and forced a settlement on the Pieksamaki Republic. He requests a colony ship to setup a small trading post and freighters to pick up minerals from the planet. Prince Arthur sends a personal message to Takahashi, commending the rear admiral for his initiative. Once the Fast Colony Fleet has returned to Earth, a decision will be made on how to handle the Pieksamaki situation. Dracon and Akagi now head for the Gitanyow homeworld to drop off their Gitanyow passengers.
12th September 2050
The Fast Colony Fleet returns to Earth and the freighters that recently delivered automated mines to Plataea are only three days away. Kresta has recently completed her trip to Toronto and she too is available. This places seven colony ships and fifteen freighters in orbit of, or close to, Earth. Although two of the colony ships need overhauls, all Earth
Post by: Erik L on November 14, 2006, 09:22:34 AM
Post by: Father Tim on November 14, 2006, 09:23:55 AM
"May you live in interesting times."
Post by: Shinanygnz on November 14, 2006, 12:48:19 PM
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
Gotta love them Germans.
Yep, indeedy. How long until the Commonwealth & the Union have a much closer military alliance or even join together, I wonder?
Post by: Erik L on November 14, 2006, 12:56:34 PM
Post by: Michael Sandy on November 14, 2006, 01:01:56 PM
I do wonder, however:
How will the Commonwealth send a tribute collecting force to Acheron if its policy is only to send an armed tribute collecting force, and it sends its only warp capable forces to Thebes? I guess we have to wait for the completion of the Aphrodite, so Poseidon and an Apollo can visit Acheron. A nice way to show the flag while passing through Gitanyow space.
It seems to me that at a time where the Thebes colony is limited by manpower, sending 1 colony ship and a bunch of freighters to Acheron, carrying infrastructure there and tribute back would be timely.
Any bets on whether the Asian Alliance keeps the Supply Sucking Islamic Alliances ground forces or Removes them?
I noticed a couple typos:
The Endeavor is described as "the gravitational survey ship Endeavour begins reactivation. " Kind of hard to do geo survey with it then.
And describing what the Asians got:
"They gain a shipyard, a research lab, fifty construction factories, sixty supply factories, ten supply factories, ten fighter factories..."
10 Ordnance Factories, maybe?
And wasn't it nice of the Islamics to start transfering their automated mines to the Asian Alliance comet? lol.
Post by: Centerfed on November 14, 2006, 02:52:04 PM
Quote
21st February 2051
The fighting in the Terran Union has ended after three days. A statement is issued from Berlin, which is the new official capital of the Terran Reich, announcing that
Post by: Kurt on November 14, 2006, 03:19:22 PM
Quote from: "Michael Sandy"
Very interesting. Diplomacy is a bit more powerful and flexible in Aurora than in Starfire. Races aren't monoliths completely controlled by the player, and are understandably reluctant to engage in policies that would result in significant damage if it can be avoided.
That's because there is currently no rules for diplomacy, which by definition makes it a more powerful and flexible situation, because whatever Steve wants to happen, happens.
Kurt
Post by: Michael Sandy on November 14, 2006, 03:26:08 PM
And the only production that will be gotten from them is 5 automated mines. Or 80 Duranium if the Duranium is availability 1, and Mining Tech Tech-3 (still being researched by the Asians). 96 with a +20% Mining Governor.
So the useful stuff is:
Shipyard, Research Lab, 5 automated mines, a freighter and some missile launchers. I am amused to check and see that the Islamics had 10 missile launchers but no missiles.
Oh yes, and the level 2 tracking station, the Naval Academy and the 4 Ground Force Training Facilities. You may have to purge a few of the officers if they were too close to the Islamic Alliance's political leadership.
So figure 4800 + 2400 + 1200 + 2400 + 2400 + 9600 worth of useful stuff, and a bunch of stuff that might be useful someday. 20,400 unequivocably useful Build Points. Another 1200 BP for the launchers and an out of date freighter.
Pretty good prize, once they get rid of the Islamic ground troops. lol.
On a political note:
The Islamics and Asians never had a substantial part of their populations employed in the TransNewtonian economy. Both the Commonwealth and the Terran Union however have had substantial percentages of their population out of work due to mineral shortages.
At its peak, the Commonwealth had about 130 million employed, including scientists, mine workers, construction workers and supply. Something like 16% of the population. The Terran Union, never quite so much, but undoubtably they envied the Commonwealth their employment ratios.
Well, things were grim for a while for the Commonwealth, but now things are looking up. Supply and Construction are still lagging, and mining continues but the glory days are gone.
But all those industries served the Shipyards. The ships that represented the potential for a glorious future and safety from Nemesis. Those shipyards undoubtably had powerful interests and lobbyists.
Consider the old Russian space program, kept aloft by funding from the West. Europe also takes pride in its research and education institutions, and that is basically what it has to offer.
As a matter of symbolism, the completion of the Jump Gate Network to Thebes would be a good opportunity to make an offer of incorporation to the Terran Union. There would be an emotional effect of the first real time communcations with the colony. There is still the matter of the destroyed Terran Union ships, and presumed alien threat, but a somewhat editted video of Thebes missile launchers for colonial defense would help deal with that.
With the Jump Gate Network up, the Commonwealth could make a real convincing case that economic growth would be sufficient to get large portions of both nations populations off of Earth before Nemesis. Some Terran Union citizens may feel disappointed that all the effort and hope that went into Athens will go by the wayside, but in the end it is likely that most of the population will end up on Athens because of the much shorter round trip. And that fact may salvage their pride a bit.
Post by: Michael Sandy on November 14, 2006, 03:35:49 PM
Quote from: "Kurt"
Quote from: "Michael Sandy"Very interesting. Diplomacy is a bit more powerful and flexible in Aurora than in Starfire. Races aren't monoliths completely controlled by the player, and are understandably reluctant to engage in policies that would result in significant damage if it can be avoided.
That's because there is currently no rules for diplomacy, which by definition makes it a more powerful and flexible situation, because whatever Steve wants to happen, happens.
Kurt
Hey, it is better than every war being a total war, with freighters being conscripted to ram enemy warships. Lol. It is better than genocide being a matter of course because a large population world could always build up again. Not in Aurora they can't, not once their mines are exhausted.
And with the ability to buy off aggressors with tribute, there really is no incentive for an attacker to blast out an enemy just to inhabit his ruins.
It is better than attacking smaller neighbors all the time just because they are annoying, and because say, the Rigellians or Octopi are big enough to take them without much effort. True, the 2nd Empire and ASR exercised a lot more restraint, for roleplaying reasons.
Post by: TrueZuluwiz on November 14, 2006, 03:57:23 PM
What seems to be needed now is a comet-mining complex: a semi-mobile mine that moves from comet to comet in the outer reaches, mining for minerals, processing hydrogen for fuel, and sending the processed minerals into the inner system via massdriver. Undoubtedly a major investment, but with the numbers showing up from just a few comets, well worth it.
Post by: MWadwell on November 14, 2006, 08:18:38 PM
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Commonwealth ship designers recommend the Hermes class destroyer.
Just out of curiosity, why not just update the Odysseus class DD? Looking at the ship designs, the only real difference is the number (and type) of engines, and the amount of carried supplies....
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
13th September 2050
The Corinth
Post by: Kurt on November 14, 2006, 08:26:59 PM
Quote from: "Michael Sandy"
Quote from: "Kurt"Quote from: "Michael Sandy"Very interesting. Diplomacy is a bit more powerful and flexible in Aurora than in Starfire. Races aren't monoliths completely controlled by the player, and are understandably reluctant to engage in policies that would result in significant damage if it can be avoided.
That's because there is currently no rules for diplomacy, which by definition makes it a more powerful and flexible situation, because whatever Steve wants to happen, happens.
Kurt
Hey, it is better than every war being a total war, with freighters being conscripted to ram enemy warships. Lol. It is better than genocide being a matter of course because a large population world could always build up again. Not in Aurora they can't, not once their mines are exhausted.
And with the ability to buy off aggressors with tribute, there really is no incentive for an attacker to blast out an enemy just to inhabit his ruins.
It is better than attacking smaller neighbors all the time just because they are annoying, and because say, the Rigellians or Octopi are big enough to take them without much effort. True, the 2nd Empire and ASR exercised a lot more restraint, for roleplaying reasons.
I'm not sure what you are saying here. Are you saying that having no rules is better than having rules?
Kurt
Post by: MWadwell on November 14, 2006, 08:30:17 PM
Quote from: "Erik Luken"
Gotta love them Germans.
Well, I don't know about you, but 2 Panzer Korps (consisting of 2 panzer divs plus 4 infantry divisions) plus a fallschirmjager division, verse 2 armoured and 1 infantry division - I'm not surprised that the Germans won.....
But as to the Germans taking over, perhaps the Terran Reich will be run a little more rationally now (probably to the Commonwealth's detriment, as such things as ambushing Terran ships would become more difficult)....
Post by: MWadwell on November 14, 2006, 08:35:24 PM
Quote from: "Centerfed"
Should the new Terran Reich flag be #0143, 0151 or 0152? :D
Post by: MWadwell on November 14, 2006, 08:37:43 PM
Quote from: "Kurt"
because whatever Steve wants to happen, happens.
Kurt
Aint that the truth - and usually the Commonwealth/Rigellian are the big winners.....
Post by: Michael Sandy on November 14, 2006, 09:05:42 PM
The practical reasons for a Jump Gate Network to Thebes are that it allows the Commonwealth to _defend_ Thebes, and to colonize it more efficiently. And to get real time communications with the colony.
I agree that shipping Automated Mines from Thebes to Plataea looks more practical. Take manned mines from Earth, exchange them for Automated Mines, then on to Plataea. Then shuttle back and forth between Plataea and Thebes until enough Automated Mines have been emplaced to meet Mercassium needs. Keeping in mind that some Mercassium is being stockpiled at Acheron, and Gitanyow could trade more.
Um. That comes to about 40 mines, with a +20% governor, to get 800 tons from A-II Moon 12, or about 50 mines to get that from moon 5.
This seems like a good time to divert freighters from shipping manned mines to Thebes, while still shipping population to it.
I may be overestimated Mercassium needs.
After developing Magneto-plasma drive, and probably power boost 10% and developing a magneto-plasma PB 10% drive, the Commonwealth will be busy refitting lots of ships with the new engines. That will reduce the need for Mercassium for new colony ships as it may be more efficient to upgrade the old colony ships, either by replacing the old engines or just adding more.
With the Jump Network to Thebes, it won't be necessary to convoy. Nor will it be necessary to keep colony ships under 100 HS anymore. And the jump network should be complete by the time the Commonwealth develops MP Drive +10% engines, or at least by the time ships with the new engine are refitted.
I must emphasize that without the Jump Network to Thebes there would be _huge_ inefficiencies associated with upgrading the engines on some ships but not others.
After developing the new engine, I would recommend developing Ceramic Composite Armor. There would be a moritorium on new construction with all the refits, and then you could start with new construction with Magneto Plasma drives and the improved armor from the start.
Post by: Michael Sandy on November 14, 2006, 09:19:13 PM
I had a problem with the tendency towards absolute monarchies in Starfire, in order to have a justification for every piece obeying the Micromanging Emperor to the last twitch. Democracy and silly concerns about treaties were regarded as obstacles to the expansion of empire that would only be adhered to for sentimental reasons.
Yes, I understand it is a game, and it is about combat and expansion, and I really enjoyed Dan Preston's Orc race stories (whatever happened to them?) but it bothers me a bit.
I am not terribly bothered by the underhanded way the Commonwealth dealt with the Terran Union. That involved the destruction of a naval vessel, not civilian populations. US and USSR subs played a dangerous game of chicken during the Cold War. Some subs were lost as a result of accidents from playing too hard.
I like the idea of wars being a bit similar to that of the Age of Sail. Nobody is going to be marching into the enemy Capitals any time soon, but they are going to skirmish and jockey for position whenever they can get away with it.
The Pieksamaki Republic battles remind me of gunboat diplomacy. Sometimes it works, and sometimes, as the Asians found with respect to Gitanyow, it doesn't.
Post by: MWadwell on November 14, 2006, 11:11:25 PM
Quote from: "Michael Sandy"
The new destroyer also has more advanced fire control. I don't think that it would be practical to refit the Odysseus class to the Hermes, so calling it by a similar class name would be inappropriate.
I wasn't talking about re-naming the Odysseus class DD's, merely about upgrading them to the Hermes standard.
It would have worked out cheaper and quicker than building new ships.....
Quote from: "Michael Sandy"
The practical reasons for a Jump Gate Network to Thebes are that it allows the Commonwealth to _defend_ Thebes, and to colonize it more efficiently. And to get real time communications with the colony.
Agreed - but to complete the link to Thebes will take over 2 years. Whereas it would only take 1 year to link Herakleia.....
I agree that the link to Thebes makes better sense, but I wanted to point out that a link to Herakleia is also needed sooner or later.....
Post by: MWadwell on November 14, 2006, 11:20:05 PM
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Presumably on orders from the Terran government, the frigate now engages and destroys a third Hufuf and a Matrah class troop transport, both of which were mothballed in geosynchronous orbit above Islamic Alliance territory.
What about the shipyards - or are they based on the planets surface rather than in orbit.... (I've always assumed that they were in orbit.)
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
22nd February 2051
Beijing announces that the former Islamic Alliance is joining the Asian Alliance and warns the Commonwealth and Terran Reich that all Islamic citizens are now under Asian protection. However, the Alliance offers to extradite the former Islamic leadership to the Reich so they can stand trial and hand over 300 tons of Duranium as reparation for the loss of the frigate.
It might just be my evil mind
, but I had a thought that the Terran Reich might soon figure out who destroyed their jump carrier in Corinth during the "questioning" (read - "interrogation") of the Caliph.Something along the lines of the Caliph declaring that the Terran Reich is co-ordinating with the Commonwealth in trying to keep the Alliance down by stopping them from leaving Sol. (The Terrans and Commonwealth obviously are co-ordinating by not mentioning the "Jump Gate Gravitational Stabilisers" - which the Terrans know don't exist.)
The Terrans would then re-consider how they lost their jump carrier, and either ask either for sensor data of the battle with the "aliens", or of a "payoff" for keeping quiet. (The payoff could be either something like 2000t of Duranium, or 10 automated mines, or a mix of the two.....)
Post by: Michael Sandy on November 14, 2006, 11:33:13 PM
If the goal was indeed to put the planet under siege and destroy its mobile units, they would have needed to control the orbit for a long period of time, which to me meant having to run the Gitanyow out of missiles at the lowest possible cost. Oops. Arrogant Chinese Admiral, dead Chinese Admiral.
Post by: Steve Walmsley on November 15, 2006, 07:26:59 AM
Quote from: "Kurt"
Quote from: "Michael Sandy"Very interesting. Diplomacy is a bit more powerful and flexible in Aurora than in Starfire. Races aren't monoliths completely controlled by the player, and are understandably reluctant to engage in policies that would result in significant damage if it can be avoided.
That's because there is currently no rules for diplomacy, which by definition makes it a more powerful and flexible situation, because whatever Steve wants to happen, happens.Kurt
Just checking here but I assume you are aware that there are quite extensive diplomatic rules in Aurora. See the Relations Window (Ctrl-F5)
Steve
Post by: Centerfed on November 15, 2006, 07:32:28 AM
Quote
Just checking here but I assume you are aware that there are quite extensive diplomatic rules in Aurora. See the Relations Window (Ctrl-F5) Steve
Now I have to butt in with the question:
How does one access the Race Relations window without using a function key?
HD
Post by: Steve Walmsley on November 15, 2006, 08:36:29 AM
Quote from: "TrueZuluwiz"
I wonder if all that population being grafted onto the Asians will be a help or a hindrance. Is there anyplace worthwhile moving them to, or are they going to riot and secede when it becomes clear that they're going to stay and die?
What seems to be needed now is a comet-mining complex: a semi-mobile mine that moves from comet to comet in the outer reaches, mining for minerals, processing hydrogen for fuel, and sending the processed minerals into the inner system via massdriver. Undoubtedly a major investment, but with the numbers showing up from just a few comets, well worth it.
The extra population won't do them any harm but they already have more than they need so the extra industry is far more useful. There are no rules for the ffects of rioting populations but I may have to add some in the future. Probably some type of random industrial damage depending on the level of unrest.
Funny you should mention the comet mining complex. I am considering some type of mining module for ships that allows the ship to extract minerals from a planet directly into its cargo bays. This would probably cost about the same as an automated mine but be more compact (probably 25HS). However, unlike ground-based mines it would require supply (due to being part of a ship) so it would be more expensive over time. That extra cost is offset by its flexibility.
Steve
Post by: Steve Walmsley on November 15, 2006, 08:37:40 AM
Quote from: "Centerfed"
How does one access the Race Relations window without using a function key?HD
Empires -> Diplomacy on the main menu bar
Steve
Post by: Centerfed on November 15, 2006, 08:44:00 AM
Quote
Centerfed wrote:
How does one access the Race Relations window without using a function key?HD
Empires -> Diplomacy on the main menu bar Steve
Oh. That. I knew that, but didn't know that was what you wanted it called. I read it as Communications and Diplomacy since that was the window title at the top. Confusing.
HD
Post by: Steve Walmsley on November 15, 2006, 08:54:34 AM
Quote from: "MWadwell"
Just out of curiosity, why not just update the Odysseus class DD? Looking at the ship designs, the only real difference is the number (and type) of engines, and the amount of carried supplies....Plus a extra fairly expensive (128 BP) fire control system. The cost to refit from the Odysseus class to the Hermes class is 435 BP, although a cheaper upgrade for the Odysseus using their current engines is also possible.
Quote
As Thebes is 3 jumps from Sol (and so needs another 4 gates), who not first link Herakleia using jumpgates? You need only half the number of gates, and opens up Thessalonica as well (which has a number of planets with good habitability)....I am making Thebes the priority because that is current destination for all the colonists and mines. I could put in a jump gate more quicky to Herakleia but most likely wouldn't use it because I need to move things to Thebes. The Herakleia population is also a lot further away than Thebes (almost twice as far), so despite the shorter number of jumps, the actual distances makes Thebes a better option.
I know that Thebes has a lot more going for it (like it's shorter distance, and more minerals), but you could put a link to Herakleia a lot easier than to Thebes.
Quote
Why not take the automated mines from Thebes? I notice that later you take the automated mines from Toronto - but I just thought to mention that you could get the mines from Thebes to Plataea a LOT quicker than you can take the mines from Sol to Plataea....At some point I will be taking the mines from Thebes but I just wanted to redeploy the Toronto mines because the mining outpost is too far out for a only a few mines and I want to concetrate my efforts on Thebes and Plataea. Once Toronto is dealt with, I will look at moving the Thebes mines.
Quote
What about turning off some of the construction factories, and transfer the population to the mines?You can't transfer population between factories and mines. All production facilities are always manned but you can choose not to use them. I don't think it would be realistic to have workers who could handle any job in the economy. It would also allow races to build huge amounts of factories
At this point in time, the Commonwealth (as a whole) needs minerals more than it does infrastructure/missile silos on Thebes (especially if the Commonwealth is going to have to subsidise the Terrans/Alliance/etc. economy).
I agree about the economy needing Duranium and I may halt the construction of missile silos.
Quote
Mmmm - I'd debate this - as after all when the Alliance(?) approached the Commonwealth with the idea of a merger, the Commonwealth knocked it back as the would need to ship out a LOT more population before Nemesis arrives.....
That was more of a roleplaying decision. The extra population is no use but in game terms it is no hindrance either. The extra industry will come in very useful in the future for the Asian Alliance
Steve
Post by: Steve Walmsley on November 15, 2006, 08:59:32 AM
Quote
What about the shipyards - or are they based on the planets surface rather than in orbit.... (I've always assumed that they were in orbit.)Ships are assembled in orbit but the vast majority of a shipyard complex is on the planet (similar to The Yard in Insurrection).
Quote
It might just be my evil mind
Something along the lines of the Caliph declaring that the Terran Reich is co-ordinating with the Commonwealth in trying to keep the Alliance down by stopping them from leaving Sol. (The Terrans and Commonwealth obviously are co-ordinating by not mentioning the "Jump Gate Gravitational Stabilisers" - which the Terrans know don't exist.)
The Terrans would then re-consider how they lost their jump carrier, and either ask either for sensor data of the battle with the "aliens", or of a "payoff" for keeping quiet. (The payoff could be either something like 2000t of Duranium, or 10 automated mines, or a mix of the two.....)
Hmm definite possibilities there.
Steve
Post by: Randy on November 15, 2006, 09:11:34 AM
?
Post by: Erik L on November 15, 2006, 09:15:23 AM
Quote from: "Randy"
And shouldn't the name be changed to the Fourth Reich?
Talk about personal flashbacks... about 10 years ago, I was in an online clan/guild called the Fourth Reich.
Post by: Centerfed on November 15, 2006, 09:15:47 AM
Quote
Randy:
And shouldn't the name be changed to the Fourth Reich?
Don't want to be TOO obvious now. Besides, that was the point of my flag question a few posts back. Heh.
I had an idea that their true leader could be religious, like the Islamics. So, the true capital could be the Vatican.
Heil Bennie!
HD
Post by: Steve Walmsley on November 15, 2006, 10:06:34 AM
Quote from: "Centerfed"
QuoteCenterfed wrote:
How does one access the Race Relations window without using a function key?HD
Empires -> Diplomacy on the main menu bar Steve
Oh. That. I knew that, but didn't know that was what you wanted it called. I read it as Communications and Diplomacy since that was the window title at the top. Confusing.HD
Sorry, I called it the Relations windows because the form file is frmRelations.frm in VB
Steve
Post by: Steve Walmsley on November 15, 2006, 10:07:09 AM
Quote from: "Randy"
And shouldn't the name be changed to the Fourth Reich instead of Terran Reich :)
Steve
Post by: Kurt on November 15, 2006, 02:06:35 PM
Quote from: "Michael Sandy"
Kurt, I am saying that I had a problem with the philosophical attiude in Starfire that everything had to be conquered or assimilated.
I had a problem with the tendency towards absolute monarchies in Starfire, in order to have a justification for every piece obeying the Micromanging Emperor to the last twitch. Democracy and silly concerns about treaties were regarded as obstacles to the expansion of empire that would only be adhered to for sentimental reasons.
I understand your problem with this, but you must understand that these things you list above are player issues, and don't necessarily have anything to do with the rules. The impetous towards conquest and/or assimilation can be foudn in almost every 4X game around.
Quote from: "Michael Sandy"
Yes, I understand it is a game, and it is about combat and expansion, and I really enjoyed Dan Preston's Orc race stories (whatever happened to them?) but it bothers me a bit.
I am not terribly bothered by the underhanded way the Commonwealth dealt with the Terran Union. That involved the destruction of a naval vessel, not civilian populations. US and USSR subs played a dangerous game of chicken during the Cold War. Some subs were lost as a result of accidents from playing too hard.
Here we disagree. The Commonwealth did something which they knew could and would be considered an act of war, and their actions could and should be considered willful murder illegally sanctioned by a head of state. US and Soviet subs acting aggressively towards each other is different, in degree and intent.
Quote from: "Michael Sandy"
I like the idea of wars being a bit similar to that of the Age of Sail. Nobody is going to be marching into the enemy Capitals any time soon, but they are going to skirmish and jockey for position whenever they can get away with it.
The Pieksamaki Republic battles remind me of gunboat diplomacy. Sometimes it works, and sometimes, as the Asians found with respect to Gitanyow, it doesn't.
Gunboat diplomacy only works when one side is completely superior. The Asians weren't, and as you pointed out they found that out the hard way.
Aurora does have a different feel to it, that is for sure. Given the lack of anything resembling an ICN, Aurora will be more conducive to an environment remeniscent of the Age of Sail. Of course, in reality there is a drawback to this situation. The longer the travel/communications time in between colonies, the harder it is to tie disparate populations together into a cohesive civilization.
Kurt
Post by: Kurt on November 15, 2006, 02:08:52 PM
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"
Quote from: "Kurt"Just checking here but I assume you are aware that there are quite extensive diplomatic rules in Aurora. See the Relations Window (Ctrl-F5)Quote from: "Michael Sandy"Very interesting. Diplomacy is a bit more powerful and flexible in Aurora than in Starfire. Races aren't monoliths completely controlled by the player, and are understandably reluctant to engage in policies that would result in significant damage if it can be avoided.
That's because there is currently no rules for diplomacy, which by definition makes it a more powerful and flexible situation, because whatever Steve wants to happen, happens.Kurt
Steve
I wasn't sure, but I am fairly sure that you aren't using the diplomatic rules for the interactions between the Commonwealth, the Union, the Islamics, and the Asians.
Kurt
Post by: Centerfed on November 15, 2006, 02:24:52 PM
Quote
I wasn't sure, but I am fairly sure that you aren't using the diplomatic rules for the interactions between the Commonwealth, the Union, the Islamics, and the Asians.
Kurt
Anyone betting on when the inevitable nuclear general exchange will occur on Earth in Nemesis? I give it about one year before it happens, tops. :roll: ) and analysis as the Commonwealth (Coms), they would have figured out what was happening as easily as the Coms has been doing.
Look how the Coms have known exactly what every other powers' ships can do, what they are armed with, etc.
The Coms know every time one of the other powers put a ship in for demothballing or construction.
Can't the other powers spy on the Coms shipyards, too? If they could, they should have a pretty darn good idea of what the fleets of the Coms look like.
They should know how far they've fallen behind the Coms in technology.
They should know the Coms' ships' capabilities, and should have been able to predict when certain things were happening.
Like, the colonization of Thebes. How could the Coms have been able to hide what they were up to? Even lacking knowledge of the capacity of the Coms' colony ships, yanking a million-plus people out of the economy should be noticable to foreign agents. Especially since I doubt that the Coms are shipping out the homeless and skilless (a section of a book by Douglas Adams comes to mind...
)HD
Post by: Steve Walmsley on November 15, 2006, 03:17:36 PM
Quote from: "Kurt"
Quote from: "Steve Walmsley"Just checking here but I assume you are aware that there are quite extensive diplomatic rules in Aurora. See the Relations Window (Ctrl-F5)I wasn't sure, but I am fairly sure that you aren't using the diplomatic rules for the interactions between the Commonwealth, the Union, the Islamics, and the Asians.
No, that was too complex. However, all of the treaties and trades with the Gitanyow and Pieksamaki used Aurora's diplomatic and trading windows. The diplomacy is not yet complete but its already far more extensive than anything in Starfire or SA.
Steve
Post by: Steve Walmsley on November 15, 2006, 03:27:27 PM
Quote from: "Centerfed"
Something I've been wondering about is how the Commonwealth got the upper hand in the espionage/analysis game.
If the other powers had as good intelligence (either kind) and analysis as the Commonwealth (Coms), they would have figured out what was happening as easily as the Coms has been doing.
Look how the Coms have known exactly what every other powers' ships can do, what they are armed with, etc.
HD
That isn't part of the game but part of the fiction. The 'observation satellites' and 'Commonwealth Intelligence' etc are just my way of telling the reader what is happening with the other races.
As far as other races watching Commonwealth shipyards, etc. They must realise the Commonwealth are colonising a planet in the same way the Commonwealth knows the Terrans are colonising one in Athens. Other races will also be monitoring Commonwealth ship movements in the same way as the Islamics figured out when to attack the Terrans.
Steve
Post by: Centerfed on November 15, 2006, 04:01:25 PM
Quote
Centerfed wrote:
Something I've been wondering about is how the Commonwealth got the upper hand in the espionage/analysis game.
If the other powers had as good intelligence (either kind ) and analysis as the Commonwealth (Coms), they would have figured out what was happening as easily as the Coms has been doing.
Look how the Coms have known exactly what every other powers' ships can do, what they are armed with, etc.
HD
Steve:
That isn't part of the game but part of the fiction. The 'observation satellites' and 'Commonwealth Intelligence' etc are just my way of telling the reader what is happening with the other races.
As far as other races watching Commonwealth shipyards, etc. They must realise the Commonwealth are colonising a planet in the same way the Commonwealth knows the Terrans are colonising one in Athens. Other races will also be monitoring Commonwealth ship movements in the same way as the Islamics figured out when to attack the Terrans.
Steve,
In the fiction, then, don't the other powers have observation satellites and secret agents, too?
All we've seen to indicate covert activity from other powers have been a fairly ham-fisted assassination attempt (I think). Granted, a good black op is not found out about for decades (if ever).
Maybe the other powers need to invest in some of those cyber teams (automated mine stealers) that you mentioned that you were going to code into Aurora soon. 8)
HD
Post by: Doug Olchefske on November 16, 2006, 01:10:20 AM
Quote from: "MWadwell"
Quote from: "Centerfed"Should the new Terran Reich flag be #0143, 0151 or 0152? :D
Not to mention Race120.
Post by: TrueZuluwiz on November 16, 2006, 01:34:55 AM
Post by: khagler on November 16, 2006, 11:37:24 AM
Quote
Centerfed wrote:
All we've seen to indicate covert activity from other powers have been a fairly ham-fisted assassination attempt (I think). Granted, a good black op is not found out about for decades (if ever).
That wasn't from another power--that was a ham-fisted false flag operation that Prince Arthur used as the excuse for his coup.
Post by: Centerfed on November 16, 2006, 02:57:02 PM
Quote
Centerfed wrote:
All we've seen to indicate covert activity from other powers have been a fairly ham-fisted assassination attempt (I think). Granted, a good black op is not found out about for decades (if ever).
khagler wrote:
That wasn't from another power--that was a ham-fisted false flag operation that Prince Arthur used as the excuse for his coup.
Which underlines my point. Only the Commonwealth seems to have an effective spy network and accurate analysts.
What's next? A shuttle 'malfunction' during re-entry that kills...oh yeah. Been done before.
HD
Post by: Steve Walmsley on November 17, 2006, 06:51:29 AM
Quote from: "Centerfed"
In the fiction, then, don't the other powers have observation satellites and secret agents, too?
All we've seen to indicate covert activity from other powers have been a fairly ham-fisted assassination attempt (I think). Granted, a good black op is not found out about for decades (if ever).
Maybe the other powers need to invest in some of those cyber teams (automated mine stealers) that you mentioned that you were going to code into Aurora soon. 8) HD
As I said, the observation satellites are a fiction device but do apply equally to all races. Although the Commonwealth doesn't know any more about the other races than they know about it, you only hear about what the Commonwealth thinks about other races because the story is from the point of view of the Commonwealth. The fiction can't contains what other races know about the Commonwealth because that is only from their point of view. The Commonwealth doesn't have a game advantage because the fiction is from its perspective.
Steve
Post by: Steve Walmsley on November 17, 2006, 06:52:26 AM
Quote from: "khagler"
QuoteCenterfed wrote:
All we've seen to indicate covert activity from other powers have been a fairly ham-fisted assassination attempt (I think). Granted, a good black op is not found out about for decades (if ever).
That wasn't from another power--that was a ham-fisted false flag operation that Prince Arthur used as the excuse for his coup. :)
Steve
Post by: Steve Walmsley on November 17, 2006, 06:59:37 AM
Quote from: "Centerfed"
QuoteCenterfed wrote:
All we've seen to indicate covert activity from other powers have been a fairly ham-fisted assassination attempt (I think). Granted, a good black op is not found out about for decades (if ever).
khagler wrote:
That wasn't from another power--that was a ham-fisted false flag operation that Prince Arthur used as the excuse for his coup.
Which underlines my point. Only the Commonwealth seems to have an effective spy network and accurate analysts.HD
You only hear about the Commonwealth spy network because the story is about the Commonwealth. Because the story doesn't reveal what is happening on the other side of the fence, it doesn't mean the other side doesn't know anything. For example, the Islamics monitored Terran ship movements in order to select the best moment to launch their attack. Another example would be the gradual mothballing of warships as each side monitors the strength of the others.
The reason the story has never explicitly stated that the Asian Alliance and Terran Reich know the Commonwealth has a colony somewhere beyond Corinth is because the story is not from their perspective so you don't know the results of their analysis, although its safe to assume that after watching colony ships and freighters heading for Corinth they know there is a colony.
I could write three stories from three different perspectives so you could know what everyone is doing and everyone is thinking but I have tried that before and it takes a long time. So instead, I give glimpses of the other side's activities via the fictional device of "Commonwealth Intelligence" and "Observation Satellites".
Steve